Reusse: In three short years, Pitino has turned the Gophers into a joke

[cjbfbp]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels this way. But I do want to see them start to win a few games that they can win. I'm not expecting a real high bar yet but you can't lose them all.

It is unfortunate that the make-up of the roster almost dictated that year three would be year one. That seems like a very convenient excuse, but it is at least partially factual. You can't tank you way to better draft picks in college or just clean house when you arrive and fill the roster with April recruits. To some extent Pitino was blessed or cursed to have the players he inherited.

Well, that's exactly right (although I'll vote that he was more blessed than cursed by the team he inherited). Let's also remember that losing four players is not unusual. If all of this year's freshman stay with the program, the same thing will happen when they complete their eligibility. Putting aside the question of his own coaching abilities, he's in this predicament because of the two centers and having only 10 active scholarship players. Perhaps the lessons here for him should be: 1) avoid any likely projects unless your roster is pretty well stocked with reliable contributors and 2) play it safe by having at least 12 active scholarship players on the roster.

Yes, unlike the pros, there is no silver lining for having a really bad season. Most people thought this would be a rebuilding year, but perceptions of Pitino will be much worse with a 9 win season than they would have been with a 13 or 14 win season.

 

[dtrain19]

There was nothing factually inaccurate about what Patrick wrote. There were no glaring omissions either. His perspective was reasonable, as Pitino's only modicum of success was with Tubby's players and Walker and Hollins regressed in their second year in the system. I don't think that Patrick should call Pitino "Little Richard" and I would quibble with him on the number of bodies in Williams during preseason games. (I'd guess 6k-7k, but maybe 4k-5k paid.) This is now worse than Monson in my opinion. The distinctions are that Pitino handles the media quite well (pretty articulate and forthright in interviews), which is important, and it appears that he has legit talent coming in. He should be given one more year.

If by regressed you mean Mo lost more weight in second year of system I'd say you're correct. Because he was better in nearly every statistical category. You can be critical of Pitino for a lot of things. Walkers development under RP may be the coach's biggest success.

 

[SelectionSunday]

. ... he's in this predicament because of the two centers and having only 10 active scholarship players. Perhaps the lessons here for him should be: 1) avoid any likely projects unless your roster is pretty well stocked with reliable contributors and 2) play it safe by having at least 12 active scholarship players on the roster.

This pretty much in line with my thinking.

No McNeil (off-court behavior), his very first recruit to the U of M.

No Lofton (off-court behavior).

No Martin (a flake).

1 project/reach at the center position is understandable, 2 not so much. To this point, we have no serviceable C in Year 3.

2 transfers sitting out that can't help you. In fairness, long term, this potentially could be a blessing instead of a curse, if Fitzgerald and Lynch both end up being really good players. Would sure hope by their senior seasons this program is in a position to make the NCAA Tournament, and maybe even win a game or two.

Martin
For what it's worth, Martin is averaging 4.2 ppg and 3.4 rpg in 5 games since becoming eligible @ Cal Poly.

http://gopoly.com/sports/mbkb/2015-16/bios/martin_josh_eko0

 

[Winasota Gopher]

This pretty much in line with my thinking.

No McNeil (off-court behavior), his very first recruit to the U of M.

No Lofton (off-court behavior).

No Martin (a flake).

1 project/reach at the center position is understandable, 2 not so much. To this point, we have no serviceable C in Year 3.

2 transfers sitting out that can't help you. In fairness, long term, this potentially could be a blessing instead of a curse, if Fitzgerald and Lynch both end up being really good players. Would sure hope by their seniors seasons this program is in a position to make the NCAA Tournament, and maybe even win a game or two.

I feel exactly the same as you two do, and I think everyone hear agrees he made some mistakes in recruiting in year 1 and year 2. The difference is that some want to turn that into "he can't coach", "he's not ready for this level of compeititon", etc etc etc.

I don't.

I feel if you compound his recruiting gambles/mistakes(which weren't as glaring until now) with the roster that was left to him was senior heavy (benefit in year one and two), the complete lack of a freshman class his first year, you have what you have today.... A mess (or as Reusse calls it, a joke). I'm not ready to kick him to the curb or say any of the extreme sentences crafted on this website, for essentially 2 mistakes in his first two years that I was totally behind at the time.

I see Pitino's charisma as a plus
I do see some positives in his tactics, I can see how it will work if he has a center and a shooter and some kids that can be physical in high pressure full court defense (which I think he has, they are just freshmen now)
(FWIW I do not understand his 2-3 zone defense with the very high wings and his current pick n roll offense so there are negatives)
And I don't discredit his name as being a potential bonus, some see it as a crutch, but if we benefit from it why the hell not

/Copy/paste

 

[Otis]

If you guys think Reuse is a dick because he bashes our unsuccessful teams. Please take a look at how fondly the NY papers ushered out a two time Super Bowl Champion coach! Bud lost it four times and we think he is the greatest! (so do I! how many 88 year olds go fishing after an aircraft crash?)

I don't know were Reuse is from, but he is not harsher than any East Coast columnists.

 

[golfing18now]

Well, that's exactly right (although I'll vote that he was more blessed than cursed by the team he inherited). Let's also remember that losing four players is not unusual. If all of this year's freshman stay with the program, the same thing will happen when they complete their eligibility. Putting aside the question of his own coaching abilities, he's in this predicament because of the two centers and having only 10 active scholarship players. Perhaps the lessons here for him should be: 1) avoid any likely projects unless your roster is pretty well stocked with reliable contributors and 2) play it safe by having at least 12 active scholarship players on the roster.

Yes, unlike the pros, there is no silver lining for having a really bad season. Most people thought this would be a rebuilding year, but perceptions of Pitino will be much worse with a 9 win season than they would have been with a 13 or 14 win season.

I agree with your comment about the "centers" . (I won't go there Winasota) However, I would probably argue the entirety of that class has slowed the rebuild. (Mason/Martin/Konate/Diedhiou) is not producing at the level necessary for the results to not regress significantly this year given what we lost to graduation. I would agree with others that he probably aimed too high initially with his recruiting and was forced to go with Option C players in that class, particularly the centers you reference. I think he has rectified that to a large degree in the last two recruiting cycles.

On the ten scholarship player issue.....hard to know what other options he had at the point that he brought on two transfers. Fitzgerald is such a wild card for me. If he truly is one of the best players on this team, it's hard for me to justify not taking on that scholarship for two more years beyond this year. Then a local kid at a position of real need is another tough decision. Definitely would be nice to have two more options this year, but were those options better than Lynch/Fitzgerald? Pitino really set himself up for limited options this year and, as it has played out, rampant criticism.

 

[Gopherbbdude]

and Buggs......what a disappointment. sure wish his head was screwed on straight.

 

[bemidjigopher]

If you guys think Reuse is a dick because he bashes our unsuccessful teams. Please take a look at how fondly the NY papers ushered out a two time Super Bowl Champion coach! Bud lost it four times and we think he is the greatest! (so do I! how many 88 year olds go fishing after an aircraft crash?)

I don't know were Reuse is from, but he is not harsher than any East Coast columnists.

No body said he was, doesn't mean you have to agree with him. I am sure he wrote the samething about Clem's teams in 1988

 

[howeda7]

I think most of us agree Pitino gets next year to see what his best recruiting class brings.

But this year's team didn't need to be this bad. And that's on him.

He knew EE and Mo were graduating the same year and he would have a void at center. He chose to address it by signing two raw long-shots and hoping one would pan out by their sophomore year. That plan was likely to fail, and anyone who watched last year could see it was very likely. He had 3 open scholarships last April. He could have acknowledged the swing and a miss and gone out and signed the best JC center he could find to plug the hole. He chose not to. Were Gilbert and Fitzgerald worth that? I'd say no. The utter incompetence at the 5 spot cost us the Penn State game and probably 1-2 others.

Second, he lost his most experienced assistant last Spring. It's great that he had assistants worth poaching, unlike Tubby. But he chose to replace with someone with zero experience. It's clear that coaching defense is not Richard's forte and fell mostly on McHale. Failing to adequately replace your best X's and O's assistant has led to some of the most brutal defense we have ever seen. This has also caused us to lose games we have no business losing.

The 15-16 team was probably never making the NCAA's. But if these two most glaring items had been addressed, we'd likely be 9-6 or 10-5 instead of 6-9 fearing we won't reach double-digits. And that would make the waiting game a lot more tolerable.

 

[bemidjigopher]

McHale's replacement was an Assistant at Oregon State, before coming here last year as Director of operations. He has plenty of experience. One could argue he should've gotten a Molinari type, but the no experience argument just isn't true

 

[dpodoll68]

No body said he was, doesn't mean you have to agree with him. I am sure he wrote the samething about Clem's teams in 1988

I would hope he didn't, given that:

- That was year 2 for Haskins
- As bad as that team was, they'd beat this team easily
- Haskins had already taken Western Kentucky to the NCAA Tournament twice
- Haskins was an NBA player
- Haskins was 45 years old with a substantial playing and coaching career behind him

The two situations aren't comparable.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Pitino inherited 1 Fr - Buggs, and 1 So - Ellenson from Tubby. This is reason #1 why this year's team is terrible.

 

[Golden_Sloth]

Pitino inherited 1 Fr - Buggs, and 1 So - Ellenson from Tubby. This is reason #1 why this year's team is terrible.

I don't think you can point the finger at Tubby for this years failures. He certainly didn't set Pitino up for success with his last two recruiting classes, but Pitino has had enough time to get some experienced guys in place. A lot of things have gone wrong that were out of Pitino's control but he still deserves some blame. I Don't want to fire him yet but his leash is shrinking.

IMO we will be successful in the near future if a) we don't fire Pitino, b) our freshman don't transfer, and c) our current recruiting class makes it to campus. If all those things happen we will have the talent to compete and I think Pitino will prove himself capable of winning when he has the right guys.

 

[Winasota Gopher]

Pitino inherited 1 Fr - Buggs, and 1 So - Ellenson from Tubby. This is reason #1 why this year's team is terrible.

Posts like this derail **** so fast here. At least be accurate if youre gonna throw a one sentence excuse out there.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Posts like this derail **** so fast here. At least be accurate if youre gonna throw a one sentence excuse out there.

Tell me why this is not accurate?

 

[short ornery norwegian]

I suppose my question about the roster management is this:

Was this by accident, or design?

Is there a long-range plan and strategy in place to build the roster and develop a competitive team? OR
Are Pitino and the other coaches just throwing stuff at the wall and hoping it sticks?

I honestly can't tell. And I think that is what Reusse is responding to. We all knew Pitino was very young and had little experience as a head coach. But, Teague et al told us we were getting a young, talented coach with connections and valuable experience as an assistant under Big time coaches like Rick P and Billy D. Maybe we underestimated how much of a learning curve there would be at a major D1 program for the first time. But, I admit I am underwhelmed with the results to date. And, let's not forget - Pitino was hired by an AD who left the U under a cloud. That colors how some will view the coach.

 

[Winasota Gopher]

Tell me why this is not accurate?

He inherited foster and Ellis as well. If you want to exclude them, he also inherited quite a few open scholarships to play with, having been used more wisely we would have been nowhere near this bad.

If you want to say the lack of a senior/junior class is the #1 issue, I'd venture Pitino is as, if not more, at fault for that fact.

 

[bemidjigopher]

I would hope he didn't, given that:

True, but Pat writes what he wants to write, I don't think he would let those pesky facts get in the way of his snark

 

[bemidjigopher]

He inherited foster and Ellis as well. If you want to exclude them, he also inherited quite a few open scholarships to play with, having been used more wisely we would have been nowhere near this bad.

If you want to say the lack of a senior/junior class is the #1 issue, I'd venture Pitino is as, if not more, at fault for that fact.

Teague released Ellis and Foster from their scholarships before the coaching search. To be fair Pitino could've given them a call once hired. Personally I thought it was a strange move at the time

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

He inherited foster and Ellis as well. If you want to exclude them, he also inherited quite a few open scholarships to play with, having been used more wisely we would have been nowhere near this bad.

And neither of them have amounted to anything. Instead Pitino brought in Little Dre, King, and McNeil who was showing promise before he screwed up. They are all better players than anyone in Tubby's last two classes - Buggs, Ellenson, Foster, and Ellis and that was with only a few months to recruit. The year before that Tubby's class was Andre Hollins, Joe Coleman, Julian Welch, and Andre Ingram, not very good outside of Hollins.

I'm not saying Pitino doesn't deserve some blame, he has missed on some prospects. But anyone who says Tubby doesn't deserve some of the blame or couldn't see this year coming, was not paying attention the last several years.

 

[bga1]

I suppose my question about the roster management is this:

Was this by accident, or design?

Is there a long-range plan and strategy in place to build the roster and develop a competitive team? OR
Are Pitino and the other coaches just throwing stuff at the wall and hoping it sticks?

I honestly can't tell. And I think that is what Reusse is responding to. We all knew Pitino was very young and had little experience as a head coach. But, Teague et al told us we were getting a young, talented coach with connections and valuable experience as an assistant under Big time coaches like Rick P and Billy D. Maybe we underestimated how much of a learning curve there would be at a major D1 program for the first time. But, I admit I am underwhelmed with the results to date. And, let's not forget - Pitino was hired by an AD who left the U under a cloud. That colors how some will view the coach.

I think there is no doubt that Pitino made a few mistakes in the first two years on managing the roster. That is in the past. Now we are doing what he perhaps should have started one year earlier. We are building from the bottom up with what on paper appear to be two solid recruiting classes in a row. Now the question is whether he has chosen the right guys , can he keep them and develop them. If he does, he succeeds- if he doesn't he fails. What is happening this year is almost irrelevant, except that we need to see effort and progress with the youngsters.

 

[cjbfbp]

But, Teague et al told us we were getting a young, talented coach with connections and valuable experience as an assistant under Big time coaches like Rick P and Billy D.

This information shouldn't have counted for very much. One coach was his father and the other coach owed his playing career and the start of his coaching career to his father. Billy Donovan was a bench player averaging 3.2 pts/gm in the year before Pitino arrived at Providence. In Pitino's two years, he averaged 15.1 and 20.6 pts/gm, earned all american honors, and managed to get an NBA contract. When Billy D wanted to get out of his financial sector job and into coaching, Rick Sr. brought him along to Kentucky. Does anyone think that Billy Donovan would not have given Rick's son a coaching job and a glowing endorsement?

 

[Winasota Gopher]

And neither of them have amounted to anything. Instead Pitino brought in Little Dre, King, and McNeil who was showing promise before he screwed up. They are all better players than anyone in Tubby's last two classes - Buggs, Ellenson, Foster, and Ellis and that was with only a few months to recruit. The year before that Tubby's class was Andre Hollins, Joe Coleman, Julian Welch, and Andre Ingram, not very good outside of Hollins.

I'm not saying Pitino doesn't deserve some blame, he has missed on some prospects. But anyone who says Tubby doesn't deserve some of the blame or couldn't see this year coming, was not paying attention the last several years.

But you said what he inherited from Tubby was the #1 reason, which isn't close to accurate.

 

[cjbfbp]

And neither of them have amounted to anything. Instead Pitino brought in Little Dre, King, and McNeil who was showing promise before he screwed up. They are all better players than anyone in Tubby's last two classes - Buggs, Ellenson, Foster, and Ellis and that was with only a few months to recruit. The year before that Tubby's class was Andre Hollins, Joe Coleman, Julian Welch, and Andre Ingram, not very good outside of Hollins.

I agree that Mathieu and King were better than anyone in Tubby's last two classes. I don't agree with you about Joe Coleman. I think he was a decent player who would have helped the team had he remained here (and was healthy) for his last two seasons.

 

[bemidjigopher]

I agree that Mathieu and King were better than anyone in Tubby's last two classes. I don't agree with you about Joe Coleman. I think he was a decent player who would have helped the team had he remained here (and was healthy) for his last two seasons.

Coleman was a good player, played good D could drive to the hoop, he was a power forward trapped in a guards body. I always jocked that if Dan had Joe's toughness and Joe had Dan's shot, they would both be in the NBA

 

[jovs]

I'm thinking Foster didn't fit into Pitino's plans and Ellis was gone by the time he was hired, if you had an offer from Mich State and Minnesota had a new coach what would you do.

First year recruiting misses are excused, the second year Pitino screwed the pooch, inexperience in my mind, if recruiting was bad and this season was going the way it is I would say make a move, you don't change coaches when the incomming recruiting class is the best it's been since Williams and Mbwake.

So far they've played tough in the conference, nothing like the SDSU game, as long as this continues I will still have hope.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

But you said what he inherited from Tubby was the #1 reason, which isn't close to accurate.

So saying this team would be better with better JRs and SRs is inaccurate? Not only is it accurate, Tubby would have likely kept his job.

 

[Winasota Gopher]

So saying this team would be better with better JRs and SRs is inaccurate? Not only is it accurate, Tubby would have likely kept his job.

We agree, completely. Had Tubby had a really good looking Freshman and incoming recruiting class he 100% would have kept his job and he would have repeated trips to the tournament. Not the case.

Any incoming coach who takes over a program due to another coach being fired would be dealing with the same issues. They all have to scramble to "fix the problems" left from their predecessor. It wasn't what Tubby left him, Tubby is the reason Pitino has this job, not the reason he loses it. Pitino's decisions after getting this job put us where we are today.

Pitino inherited 1 Fr - Buggs, and 1 So - Ellenson from Tubby. This is reason #1 why this year's team is terrible.

Now you cannot expect him to bat 1.000. I don't say fire him because he made a mistake. I just hate when people try to cast #1 blame on the prior coach one, because it's factually inaccurate but also, because it brings out the worst types of posters here.

 

[LakerFan]

What facts did Patrick get incorrect in this story?

Honestly not trying to start something as we're all clear where I stand (HA!) but I'm honestly curious about what he has incorrect.

Perspective might cause someone like Pat to realize that the upperclassmen are essentially what was left behind by Tubby and that the fact that the future cupboard was bare for Tubby is as much or more of why he got fired as where the team was the last season he was here. Some of the juniors that are here that Pitino brought in were the best available by the time he got up and running. It is fair to rip the failures Pitino has brought in in the sophomore class and it's fair to question how he can't take a team with mediocre talent and at least play mediocre teams and win.

 

[Mulligan]

I suppose my question about the roster management is this:

Was this by accident, or design?

Is there a long-range plan and strategy in place to build the roster and develop a competitive team? OR
Are Pitino and the other coaches just throwing stuff at the wall and hoping it sticks?

I honestly can't tell.

In retrospect, good questions. Most of the time I feel like the roster mismanagement is because of youthful arrogance.

"Go after those name recruits. I should get a couple because of my name."

"I'm not going to be patient with you. Commit now or we're giving the spot to so and so."

"Ya, it's a gamble, but I can make a player out of him."

I can see him thinking those thoughts. Many of us thought that was okay although I can remember the doubts by some about Lofton, Konate, Morris, etc.

About 10% of the time when I want to be real cynical, I also think Richard might have thought, "What the hell? I'm not going to be here after two years anyway. I'll be such a hot commodity I'll be at a major program down south." That's whenever I remember how much his name was being mentioned at other places last spring. Or it might have been purely a salary boost strategy.