Report: U Followed Rules & Law in Suspensions

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I have no opinion on this other than this thread has bed bugs between the sheets.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
No, that isn't how it works. Watch just about any press conference with an AD and you won't see a visibly upset person with a wobbly voice talking about the lack of class, discipline, culture at great and unnecessary length. He may have intended to convey a different message, similar to when he attempted to communicate with the team and coaches, but he didn't do a good job if that's the case.

As always those of a particular persuasion, e.g. those more concerned about PR than the player's and coach's lives and reputations will perceive events one way, while those with a different mindset will see things in another shade. That's how it works.
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Agree. I have come to the conclusion that a few on this board just don't want to understand these points.
 

caliGopher said:
so just so I'm clear on this. Coyle could suspend the players when the police were investigating a sexual assault, and had the evidence that clearly showed there was an assault, but when they police ignored the evidence and didn't charge them, he let them back on the team?

So, if he knew about the EOAA investigation, which he did, why didn't he insist on keeping the original players suspended pending that outcome? Because his hands were tied?

One thing I do agree on, Kaler and Coyle played very different roles. Both were utterly incompetent, but they found different ways to be just that.

Nothing has changed in the culture at the U, which has been the bigger problem for decades. The fact that Kaler is still in place will have more to do with PJ Fleck's tenure as coach than any other factor.
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We have a winner! Coyle cannot go on about nonsense like culture, when he had "all this evidence" and put the players back on the team. This is why many are critical of Coyle. We will see if he's learned anything going forward. Furthermore Like Pompous Elitist stated,(paraphrasing) other AD's do not behave like they are visibly upset and go to great lengths to character assassinate the coach they just fired.
 

Cruze said:
What almost everyone in GopherHole neglects to consider is the fact that the U's General Counsel is heavily involved in every issue and decision that has legal ramifications for the U. Mark Coyle undoubtedly agreed with the suspensions of the players but those decisions were made with the input of everyone in senior leadership at the U. That is the way large organizations work. No AD in the country has the authority to make decisions on their own about such volatile and high profile matters.
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Okay, since we are playing that game, don't you think that coach Claeys consulted with them going back to September 2016?

Face it! Many involved made mistakes. Part of a healthy "culture" of leadership is admitting that you've made mistakes.
 

What is all this evidence that Coyle did or didn't have? As far as I'm concerned, "All the Evidence" is that group sex occurred, no crime was committed, and that the EOAA report wasn't worth the paper it was written on? Maybe I missed something.


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Spoofin said:
What is all this evidence that Coyle did or didn't have? As far as I'm concerned, "All the Evidence" is that group sex occurred, no crime was committed, and that the EOAA report wasn't worth the paper it was written on? Maybe I missed something.


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I can only speak for myself. When challenged about the last round of suspensions(and IIRC earlier as well), he stated that he knew things others didn't. My point in all of this is don't call others out for lack of leadership if you don't seize the opportunity to lead yourself!
 

Jim Carter chimes in, per Shooter:

Former Gophers football captain Jim Carter emphatically disagrees with an external review for the University of Minnesota Board of Regents last week that said the school followed federal law and its own policies while investigating and punishing several football players for alleged sexual misconduct nearly a year ago.

Carter, who was close to the Gophers programs coached by Jerry Kill and successor Tracy Claeys, disputes the report’s claim of “weak leadership” by Claeys and contends university administrators were responsible for some player suspensions, not Claeys.

http://www.twincities.com/2017/08/1...peedy-byron-buxton-no-match-for-the-olympics/

Go Gophers!!
 

The only people who don't see anything wrong with what went on at the scene of the Gopher Gang Bang Scandal are moral reprobates who don't know right from wrong. The EOAA Report has been public information for many months but not one person, including the attorneys representing the players, has pointed out even one sentence in the 80 page report that is not accurate. The level of detail provided by the EOAA investigators makes the police report look pathetic and embarrassing by comparison.

SUMMARY OF EVIDENCE COLLECTED

EOAA collected information from the following sources.

1. Interviews: EOAA conducted interviews with RS, the 12 accused students, and 16 other students who were identified as potentially having relevant information.

2. Electronic messages: EOAA reviewed electronic messages to and from RS related to the events that occurred on September 2 in the Radius. EOAA also
reviewed electronic messages sent on September 12 to the Empire messaging group, which consists of first-year members of the University's football team.

3. Police investigation materials: EOAA reviewed a redacted version of the Minneapolis Police Department's Case Report and Supplements related to RS allegations ("Police Case Report"). The University requested all notes and documents, recordings, videos and other information from the Hennepin County Police 'Department investigation. However, the Hennepin County Attorney's office did not share this evidence with the University.

4. Radius security camera footage: EOAA promptly requested security camera footage from the Radius after receiving RS report on September 23. However, the Radius had already recorded over the relevant footage at the time of EOAA's request. According to the Police Case Report, the police reviewed the Radius security camera footage and found nothing of evidentiary value.

5. Videos: EOAA reviewed two videos taken in the Radius on September 2. The first is an approximately four-second video showing RS, A2 and a University football recruit on a couch in apartment A. The second is an eight-second video showing RS and the recruit on a bed in apartment B. In addition, EOAA is aware of, but was unable to obtain, a third approximately ninety-second video showing A2, RS, and the recruit engaged in sexual contact in apartment B.

6. Photographs: EOAA reviewed two photographs taken in the Radius on September 2. The first depicts the above-mentioned recruit with his shirt off and both middle fingers raised. A2 sent this photograph to first-year football players sometime between 3:05am and 3:25am on September 2. The second
photograph depicts RS, the football recruit and A2 on a couch in apartment A at 3:05am.

CREDIBILITY OF THE PARTIES

RS and the accused students reported divergent and conflicting accounts of the events that occurred in apartment B after the first football game. Among
other things, we considered the following evidence and analyses when assessing the credibility of these accounts.

Conflicting reports among accused students

The accused students provided EOAA with different information from one another about key and notable facts. At times the accused students provided information that contradicted their own reports to EOAA. Examples of these discrepancies are detailed in the individual accused student's sections below. These discrepancies within and between the accused students' accounts led EOAA to discount their credibility. Nevertheless, we found portions of the accused students' accounts to be credible when they were plausible, detailed, consistent with the accounts of other credible witnesses and/or included statements that were potentially contrary to their own interest, among other things.

Accused students' efforts to conceal information

Some evidence indicates that the accused students deliberately attempted to impede the University's fact-finding efforts. For example, evidence indicates that many accused students deleted relevant messages and videos from their phones upon learning that RS made a report to the police and/or EOAA. Specifically, eight accused students received relevant group messages from A2. However, none of these students had retained those messages on their phone at the time of their EOAA interviews.

One football team member (who is not a11 accused student) reported that he had encouraged team members to delete their Empire group messages from September 1-2. This suggests some degree of a collective, defensive effort to conceal relevant evidence by the accused students and other members of the football team.

It also appears likely that accused students engaged in a collective effort to conceal the identities of men who were present in B, but who RS and EOAA have been unable to identify. During their interviews with EOAA, the accused students were generally only willing to identify individuals who were present in apartment B after the EOAA investigator demonstrated that this information had already been provided by other sources. Moreover, A10 volunteered the following comment about RS in his EOAA interview, "I wish she didn't remember my damn name." This comment suggests his understanding that EOAA would not have known about his presence in apartment B had RS been unable to identify him. This comment further suggests that A10 has this understanding because he and other accused students have not disclosed the identities of others who were present in apartment 8, but who RS and EOAA have been unable to identify.

http://kstp.com/kstpImages/repository/cs/files/U of M EOAA redacted5.pdf
 

If every word in the EOAA report was accurate and truthful, then it stands to reason that their recommendations would have been upheld.

Their recommendations were not all upheld. 5 players who were recommended for punishment by the EOAA either walked away with no punishment, or reduced punishment.

Ergo, the appeals process did not accept the findings of the EOAA for all 10 players. Ergo, the committee that heard the appeal did not accept the EOAA report as completely accurate and truthful.

But just keep saying Gang Bang, and that will make everything all right. Gang Bang. Gang Bang. Gang Bang.
 



One reason the DA reviewed the EOAA report (other than its clear bias and assumptions) and did not bring charges is the following excerpt:

The accused students provided EOAA with different information from one another about key and notable facts. At times the accused students provided information that contradicted their own reports to EOAA. Examples of these discrepancies are detailed in the individual accused student's sections below. These discrepancies within and between the accused students' accounts led EOAA to discount their credibility. Nevertheless, we found portions of the accused students' accounts to be credible when they were plausible, detailed, consistent with the accounts of other credible witnesse

The EOAA found small contradictions in the guys stories (they were interviewed by EOAA weeks or perhaps months later than the police interviews) leading to their inclusion in the dragnet. Yet the EOAA explains away the enormous contradictions and loss of memory/recovered memories of the accuser with pseudoscientific mumbo jumbo from researchers outside mainstream science.

If there was assault that night, I hope evidence comes to light or witnesses come forward. Unfortunately that report proves nothing, and the DA knows it.
 

I agree!

Word said:
I've said this before, but Coyle played the situation to his benefit. He knew he wanted to fire Claeys and used the scandal as his excuse, hoping that it would make him look good for "cleaning house". I think it backfired to some degree. I don't think he got the savior status he was hoping for. He should have just fired Claeys and said he found his guy and wanted to go in a different direction. He didn't need to drag so many people through the mud to accomplish it.
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If you recall, Coyle tried to hire PJ when he was AD at Syracuse but was rejected. Personally, I think PJ wanted to coach in the BIG10. So, when Coyle is hired by the U, he comes in here and had to deal with a head football coach that was appointed by an interim AD, who's public image isn't the best, the team plays some pretty mediocre football during the year, i.e. the Rutgers game, plus interest in the program is waning. I think Coyle had Fleck at the top of his "list" when he first came here and probably should have done what the new Illinois AD did, he fired his football coach and brought in his number 1 guy. If Coyle had done THAT and just stated that he wanted his own guy as head football coach, I don't think there would have been nearly the uproar that occurred after the events of last December.
 

BleedGopher said:
Jim Carter chimes in, per Shooter:

Former Gophers football captain Jim Carter emphatically disagrees with an external review for the University of Minnesota Board of Regents last week that said the school followed federal law and its own policies while investigating and punishing several football players for alleged sexual misconduct nearly a year ago.

Carter, who was close to the Gophers programs coached by Jerry Kill and successor Tracy Claeys, disputes the report’s claim of “weak leadership” by Claeys and contends university administrators were responsible for some player suspensions, not Claeys.

http://www.twincities.com/2017/08/1...peedy-byron-buxton-no-match-for-the-olympics/

Go Gophers!!
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Jim Carter chimes in...everybody take a drink.
 

God help us all, if Jim Carter is the voice of reason.
 



go4rob said:
If you recall, Coyle tried to hire PJ when he was AD at Syracuse but was rejected. Personally, I think PJ wanted to coach in the BIG10. So, when Coyle is hired by the U, he comes in here and had to deal with a head football coach that was appointed by an interim AD, who's public image isn't the best, the team plays some pretty mediocre football during the year, i.e. the Rutgers game, plus interest in the program is waning. I think Coyle had Fleck at the top of his "list" when he first came here and probably should have done what the new Illinois AD did, he fired his football coach and brought in his number 1 guy. If Coyle had done THAT and just stated that he wanted his own guy as head football coach, I don't think there would have been nearly the uproar that occurred after the events of last December.
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Yes It wasn't really that he fired Claeys and brought in Fleck, it was all the extra drama that Coyle added to the situation. I personally have no issues with Fleck.
 

GopherVotary said:
God help us all, if Jim Carter is the voice of reason.
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Well, if deciding between him and Cruze I will take the Looneybird with the scarf all day.


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go4rob said:
If you recall, Coyle tried to hire PJ when he was AD at Syracuse but was rejected. Personally, I think PJ wanted to coach in the BIG10. So, when Coyle is hired by the U, he comes in here and had to deal with a head football coach that was appointed by an interim AD, who's public image isn't the best, the team plays some pretty mediocre football during the year, i.e. the Rutgers game, plus interest in the program is waning. I think Coyle had Fleck at the top of his "list" when he first came here and probably should have done what the new Illinois AD did, he fired his football coach and brought in his number 1 guy. If Coyle had done THAT and just stated that he wanted his own guy as head football coach, I don't think there would have been nearly the uproar that occurred after the events of last December.
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Other than gopherhole, there wasn't much uproar when he was let go
 


It is patently absurd for anyone to say the EOAA Report was biased and worthless when the evidence and findings against the players were upheld by the U's hearing and appeal process for six of the ten players and none of them challenged their punishment in federal court. Not even one of the players (including the four players who won their appeals) has initiated a lawsuit for personal damages against the U even though we were assured for many months by the usual suspects in GopherHole that the suits would happen and Kaler and Coyle would ultimately be fired.

Title IX lawsuits and suits for damages are being brought against colleges and universities all over the country. How come they didn't happen against the U? The answer is because the U's disciplinary process was followed exactly like it was written and the U's disciplinary process is fundamentally more fair than the procedures used at most other schools. In other words, lack of due process for students is simply not a problem at the U like it is at other schools. We all should be happy and proud of that fact.
 



Cruze said:
It is patently absurd for anyone to say the EOAA Report was biased and worthless when the evidence and findings against the players were upheld by the U's hearing and appeal process for six of the ten players and none of them challenged their punishment in federal court. Not even one of the players (including the four players who won their appeals) has initiated a lawsuit for personal damages against the U even though we were assured for many months by the usual suspects in GopherHole that the suits would happen and Kaler and Coyle would ultimately be fired.

Title IX lawsuits and suits for damages are being brought against colleges and universities all over the country. How come they didn't happen against the U? The answer is because the U's disciplinary process was followed exactly like it was written and the U's disciplinary process is fundamentally more fair than the procedures used at most other schools. In other words, lack of due process for students is simply not a problem at the U like it is at other schools. We all should be happy and proud of that fact.
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I wouldn't be so certain on your no suit stance. We'll see what things look like in three years.
 

kisarazu said:
I wouldn't be so certain on your no suit stance. We'll see what things look like in three years.
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Maybe. Those things take time. But if there was something in the works I have trouble seeing how Hutton could possibly stay quiet about it. I mean, he couldn't even keep the EOAA report to himself. Dude loves to hear himself talk.
 

bizzle22 said:
Maybe. Those things take time. But if there was something in the works I have trouble seeing how Hutton could possibly stay quiet about it. I mean, he couldn't even keep the EOAA report to himself. Dude loves to hear himself talk.
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I guess I see someone else representing them. Some sharks don't let their prey know whats coming.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
About 4-5 of us are outraged this could happen to our sons? Try again.
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GopherHole posters who are outraged their sons might be unjustly disciplined for sexual abuse/harassment should do their sons a favor by teaching them to respect women and get new friends if the guys they hang out with like to get women drunk and screw them until they cry or pass out (and maybe not even then).
 


bizzle22 said:
Maybe. Those things take time. But if there was something in the works I have trouble seeing how Hutton could possibly stay quiet about it. I mean, <b>he couldn't even keep the EOAA report to himself. </b>Dude loves to hear himself talk.
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So now it was Hutton who leaked the report? You used to say it was "obviously" a player. Who next? Any more "smoking guns"?


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PMWinSTP said:
Don't feed the Cruze troll...
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No Kidding. He was already banned once under the UpNorth name now he continues to spew utter nonsense at every turn to get under the skin of anyone with a functioning brain. He even played the "EOAA report was more thorough because it was longer" card recently which is the signature of either a troll, someone completely and totally clueless, or both.

Folks have to remember this is the guy who announced on here before any info came out that he "sure isn't going to believe a bunch of football players" - yeah, he is in search of truth and justice. Don't feed the Cruze troll.


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Jim Carter was just on ESPN1500.

Boy is he bitter.

He must had been a big Claeys fan.
 

Spoofin said:
So now it was Hutton who leaked the report? You used to say it was "obviously" a player. Who next? Any more "smoking guns"?


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I think it's pretty clear that whether I say "released by a player" or "released by a player's lawyer" I am saying the same thing. If you listened to Hutton on Doogie's podcast right around the time of the appeals (if you don't like Doogie that's fine, only pay attention to Hutton's words not Doogie's) you would know that he was the one. Hutton outlined the reasons why it was a good thing to release it. Actually made some sense too.
 

Report: U Followed Rules &amp; Law in Suspensions

bizzle22 said:
I think it's pretty clear that whether I say "released by a player" or "released by a player's lawyer" I am saying the same thing.
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Not at all. One could definitely do it w/o the consent of the other. I have never seen anything other than speculation that Hutton was the one. I think you are hearing what you want to.


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