Report says P.J. Fleck illegally contacted former player; #Gophers say coach...

Donate To GopherHole

Goldmember said:
Maybe because the coach and president of Baylor essentially constructed and operated a rape chamber for its players, and the NCAA couldn't have cared less.

And Louisville has been almost openly running a brothel for its players. And the NCAA couldn't care less.

And UNC clearly had wide-spread academic fraud involving dozens. And the NCAA couldn't have cared less.

So it's just very hard to imagine a coach talking to a former player, in ANY capacity (assuming the worst), is going to shock anyone outside of Kalamazoo.

But, yeah, I guess we'all just have wait and see.
Click to expand...

Well played
 

highwayman said:
Oh my god. Free college education worth $120,000 minimum. Are you kidding?
Click to expand...
They are earning every penny. It sure ain't free. And it is harder than and they make more sacrifices than most $30K/year jobs. Most jobs don't include the risk of concussions, torn ACLs, broken leg and ankles, dislocated shoulders, etc.
And that "free education"? Many don't get the time needed to pursue the most challenging majors, and have to settle for something more manageable with the demands of a student-athletes' schedule with workouts, travel, and game prep.
They aren't complaining about it, but it is ignorant to consider it "free".
 

KillerGopherFan said:
They are earning every penny. It sure ain't free. And it is harder than and they make more sacrifices than most $30K/year jobs. Most jobs don't include the risk of concussions, torn ACLs, broken leg and ankles, dislocated shoulders, etc.
And that "free education"? <b>Many don't get the time needed to pursue the most challenging majors, and have to settle for something more manageable </b>with the demands of a student-athletes' schedule with workouts, travel, and game prep.
They aren't complaining about it, but it is ignorant to consider it "free".
Click to expand...

I agree with your premise here, but the bolded part is pure speculation. Many student athletes pursue demanding majors. I'd guess the % of them that pick something simply because it is "more manageable" is virtually identical to that of the general student population that choose a major for the same reason. Natural selection in the job market.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Spoofin said:
The reason this isn't allowed is it is a (very) slippery slope. Who decides in what instances it is OK or not? What exceptions. Students who have signed LOIs should not be able to be recruited. Period. Once they are released from that commitment they can be, but not before and that is the right answer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

If this is a slippery slope, it's a very gentle grade. Risk Free Transfers have already allowed under certain circumstances (Penn State, for example) and making a transfer window open up for the the two months after a coach is fired (or at least prior to national signing day for those fired mid season) would totally be doable. If you made it so that only the player could initiate contact and, you would essentially open the pool of players available to be recruited, including those of on the current team...
 


Spoofin said:
I agree with your premise here, but the bolded part is pure speculation. Many student athletes pursue demanding majors. I'd guess the % of them that pick something simply because it is "more manageable" is virtually identical to that of the general student population that choose a major for the same reason. Natural selection in the job market.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
There's a reason that there are so many Business Marketing Education majors on the sports teams and so very few Carlson School of Business majors. And I believe there is somewhat of an inverse relationship between success on the field and success in the classroom. Somewhat. There are certainly exceptions with a few that pursue Engineering degrees, but they are exceptions rather than the rule.
 

KillerGopherFan said:
There's a reason that there are so many Business Marketing Education majors on the sports teams and so very few Carlson School of Business majors. And I believe there is somewhat of an inverse relationship between success on the field and success in the classroom. Somewhat. There are certainly exceptions with a few that pursue Engineering degrees, but they are exceptions rather than the rule.
Click to expand...

You could be right, but I'd love to see a stat on % of biz mktg majors of student athletes vs general population as I'm not buying it is much/any different. I've never looked it up, and could be wrong, but I suspect your perception is not reality. BTW - there is nothing demanding about CSoM.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

KillerGopherFan said:
They are earning every penny. It sure ain't free. And it is harder than and they make more sacrifices than most $30K/year jobs. Most jobs don't include the risk of concussions, torn ACLs, broken leg and ankles, dislocated shoulders, etc.
And that "free education"? Many don't get the time needed to pursue the most challenging majors, and have to settle for something more manageable with the demands of a student-athletes' schedule with workouts, travel, and game prep.
They aren't complaining about it, but it is ignorant to consider it "free".
Click to expand...

Most of this is a wide over-generalization.
 

GoldenGopherTilTheEnd said:
If this is a slippery slope, it's a very gentle grade. Risk Free Transfers have already allowed under certain circumstances (Penn State, for example) and making a transfer window open up for the the two months after a coach is fired (or at least prior to national signing day for those fired mid season) would totally be doable. If you made it so that only the player could initiate contact and, you would essentially open the pool of players available to be recruited, including those of on the current team...
Click to expand...

Would this be head coaches who are fired? What about assistants, like Limegrover was here? When he got let go, would then all Offensive players be "on the market" to transfer?
In the case of PJF he was not fired from WMU, he chose to leave. In this instance would players be able to transfer? What about position coaches who leave by their own choice, then do all players in that position group get to have the chance to transfer if they want?
It is a very slippery slope to go down.
If a player is unhappy where they are at, they should be able to transfer. Sitting out a year stills seems like the best way to handle it. But coaches shouldn't be allowed to contact them before they have announced and been given their release from the current school.
 




Spoofin said:
You could be right, but I'd love to see a stat on % of biz mktg majors of student athletes vs general population as I'm not buying it is much/any different. I've never looked it up, and could be wrong, but I suspect your perception is not reality. BTW - there is nothing demanding about CSoM.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I've heard that CSoM admits had to have a 3.5 GPA and that it is a very good Business School. And, I don't disagree entirely with the point that this may apply to non-athletes. I think colleges, in general, create majors for students that don't qualify for higher quality programs/majors. The objective is to maximize enrollment and $$$. I'm just saying it applies more frequently to student-athletes and is used by athletes to ease the total burden of academic and athlete demands, which is ass backwards. The point of a scholarship is to provide means get an education, but b/c of the demands of the scholarship, some choose to take majors that are more manageable.
 

Ski U Master said:
Not to mention the average lifetime earnings bump of $900,000 for having a college degree.
Click to expand...

I always wanted to see a college football player study tracking outcomes. I'm skeptical that many of these players who are guided through the system to stay eligible and "play school" are receiving the same bump as say average college student.
 

KillerGopherFan said:
I've heard that CSoM admits had to have a 3.5 GPA and that it is a very good Business School. And, I don't disagree entirely with the point that this may apply to non-athletes. I think colleges, in general, create majors for students that don't qualify for higher quality programs/majors. The objective is to maximize enrollment and $$$. I'm just saying it applies more frequently to student-athletes and is used by athletes to ease the total burden of academic and athlete demands.
Click to expand...

Oh, CSoM is a great school. Tough to get in to and a fabulous degree to have. I know a number of folks who graduated from there and have fantastic jobs. I was referring to time demands (in the scope of our conversation). In my experience, it isn't very demanding on that front. I was not taking a shot at CSoM. I should have been more clear.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 



Ski U Master said:
Not to mention the average lifetime earnings bump of $900,000 for having a college degree.
Click to expand...
So who gets a better lifetime earnings bump, at BME major or a Carlson School of Mgmt major?
 


I sense an impending STEM vs biz fight

<iframe src="//giphy.com/embed/ophTk1e1h4fRu" width="480" height="360" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="http://giphy.com/gifs/thomas-ophTk1e1h4fRu">via GIPHY</a></p>
 

KillerGopherFan said:
So who gets a better lifetime earnings bump, at BME major or a Carlson School of Mgmt major?
Click to expand...

I think a very interesting study could be done between a well-known football player with a BME degree VS average Joe (or Joan would be interesting as well) with a Carlson degree on ability to get jobs and income potential. When you factor in student loan debt, I think I would rather be the football player with the lesser degree. Once they get their locally recognizable foot in the door with their entry-level job, they very well could go back and get a graduate degree from Carlson on their employer's dime if need be.
 

GopherHomer said:
I think a very interesting study could be done between a well-known football player with a BME degree VS average Joe (or Joan would be interesting as well) with a Carlson degree on ability to get jobs and income potential. When you factor in student loan debt, I think I would rather be the football player with the lesser degree. Once they get their locally recognizable foot in the door with their entry-level job, they very well could go back and get a graduate degree from Carlson on their employer's dime if need be.
Click to expand...
I'm not arguing that there aren't intangible benefits to playing a college sports that translate is to career success. I'd argue that is very much the case. I simply started out saying that many athletes choose majors that make negotiating the demands of their sport easier, which takes away from the point of the scholarship. Whereas non-athlete students are more likely to prioritize their educational aspirations in selecting a major.
 

KillerGopherFan said:
So who gets a better lifetime earnings bump, at BME major or a Carlson School of Mgmt major?
Click to expand...

No idea, the $900k was something I got from a few sources that seemed reputable when I google searched it a few months back.
 

Ski U Master said:
No idea, the $900k was something I got from a few sources that seemed reputable when I google searched it a few months back.
Click to expand...
I don't doubt it. I've heard similar. It points out the value of a degree, but it doesn't dispute the theory that many S-As choose an academic major that may be more manageable to the demands of participation in intercollegiate sports.
 

KillerGopherFan said:
I don't doubt it. I've heard similar. It points out the value of a degree, but it doesn't dispute the theory that many S-As choose an academic major that may be more manageable to the demands of participation in intercollegiate sports.
Click to expand...

See post #105.
 


Pompous Elitist said:
I sense an impending STEM vs biz fight

<iframe src="//giphy.com/embed/ophTk1e1h4fRu" width="480" height="360" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="http://giphy.com/gifs/thomas-ophTk1e1h4fRu">via GIPHY</a></p>
Click to expand...

Everyone is worried about job security ... it makes these arguments worse.
 

KillerGopherFan said:
I don't doubt it. I've heard similar. It points out the value of a degree, but it doesn't dispute the theory that many S-As choose an academic major that may be more manageable to the demands of participation in intercollegiate sports.
Click to expand...

I went to college in the old Institute of Technology with 2 Gopher hockey players that were chemistry majors. Both played in the NHL. You can do the tougher majors if you want to. Most choose not to.
 

Word said:
I went to college in the old Institute of Technology with 2 Gopher hockey players that were chemistry majors. Both played in the NHL. You can do the tougher majors if you want to. Most choose not to.
Click to expand...
I didn't say it effected all or that it wasn't a choice. I said "many choose" to take a more manageable major b/c the demand of the sport is heavy.
 

Taking a quick look at the roster, I found a large number of 3rd year+ players were still undeclared, a number of Sociology, Ag/Food Business, Kinesiology, BME, Communications, and Sport Mgmt. If you haven't declared in your 3rd year, you're not going into an "Elite" major. You'll more than likely end up with one of the above or a general degree of some kind.
Very few Engineering (like 3 or so) and no Carlson School majors.
There's nothing wrong with any of those majors. Better to have any degree than none. They're just not as likely to pay off like the latter two type of degrees.
 

Back to the main point of the thread:

It may not seem fair to the player when the coach who recruited them leaves - but from a practical standpoint, I just don't think it's workable to open it up and allow (potentially) mass transfers after a coaching change.

Those players - at least in theory - committed to a school as well as a coach. The NCAA wants to maintain the idea of a "student-athlete."
allowing players to jump from school to school without any restrictions makes the players look a lot more like pros, and a lot less like students.

And, what about the impact on the school? Let's say, for sake of argument, that Fleck leaves after 3 seasons at the U, and half the team indicates they want to transfer. Is that fair to the next coach at the U to walk into a job and have to turn over half the roster?
 

KillerGopherFan said:
I read it before. It's not news. <b>It doesn't address my point tho.</b>
Click to expand...
Nor does this...
KillerGopherFan said:
Taking a quick look at the roster, I found a large number of 3rd year+ players were still undeclared, a number of Sociology, Ag/Food Business, Kinesiology, BME, Communications, and Sport Mgmt. If you haven't declared in your 3rd year, you're not going into an "Elite" major. You'll more than likely end up with one of the above or a general degree of some kind.
Very few Engineering (like 3 or so) and no Carlson School majors.
Click to expand...




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Dontbeadumbamerican said:
Who: Athletic Director Mark Coyle

When: 6:45 p.m. on Jan. 3, 2017

Quote one: "Moving forward, we need a leader who sets high expectations athletically, academically, and socially."

Quote two: "I am convinced you can do things the right way, and you can win at the highest level."

Two months later we have a potential violation of the new coach. While this little recruiting hiccup maybe nothing, I wonder what else is laying in the weeds on Mr. Fleck and his band of merry recruiters if its true.
Click to expand...

Just because Mark Coyle is a complete and total tool, with no moral compass and no integrity, doesn't make PJ Fleck the same.

Proof they are different? PJ Fleck has actually been seen in public in recent weeks in uncontrolled environments.

I have some concerns about the cult of personality that is PJ Fleck, but what may or may not have happened here has nothing to do with it. If he broke a rule, he'll be held accountable. I he didn't, he won't. I'm pretty sure this is not on the top of the NCAA's agenda of issues to look into right now, although I'm sure we can trot out a Regent to compare our program to that of Ole' Miss, just like we've been compared to Baylor in other matters.

f Fleck did in fact break this rule, let's hope the self-righteous idiot currently occupying the AD position and our Lame Duck president don't get an angry email from one Gopher fan and decide to pull the plug on the Fleck era. If anything is going to anchor the program down, it won't be Fleck, it will be the Admin.
 

GopherHomer said:
Who cares about Coyle - he hired Fleck. He's a rock star! It's the single best move a University of Minnesota AD has made in the last 50 years. I really don't care if he had to resort to sleaziness to get it done. He have never been more relevant on the national scene.
Click to expand...

yeah. winning those 7 national titles pales in comparison to hiring one PJ Fleck. Never, my friend, is a mighty long time.

And we're not relevant right now. We're an interesting side note to the terrible circus from this fall right now, with SI asking why small situations at Minnesota are treated like we're Baylor, and why our Admin has consistently made things worse vs. better in all of these situations.

Fleck wins Twelve games here? We'll be relevant.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom