Recruiting hasn't mattered at Wisconsin.

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LonelyIowaGopher

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According to Rivals, Wisconsin has ranked in recruiting within the Big 10 Conference over the last ten years as follows:
2002 8th
2003 5th
2004 8th
2005 7th
2006 8th
2007 7th
2008 6th
2009 8th
2010 11th
2011 7th
Wisconsin's average recruiting class has ranked 7.5 over ten years. How many times has Wisconsin gone to a New Year's Day Bowl game in the last ten years? How hard can it be for Minnesota to start competing on an even par with Wisconsin?
 

LonelyIowaGopher said:
According to Rivals, Wisconsin has ranked in recruiting within the Big 10 Conference over the last ten years as follows:
2002 8th
2003 5th
2004 8th
2005 7th
2006 8th
2007 7th
2008 6th
2009 8th
2010 11th
2011 7th
Wisconsin's average recruiting class has ranked 7.5 over ten years. How many times has Wisconsin gone to a New Year's Day Bowl game in the last ten years? How hard can it be for Minnesota to start competing on an even par with Wisconsin?
Click to expand...


That certainly is an encouraging stat. They have a particular type of player that they recruit for a particular type of scheme. Hopefully, Coach Kill will be able to do the same thing. He knows what he wants, and he has a scheme in place. Time will tell if he is able to do what Wisconsin has. I wonder if because of Wisconsin's offensive philosophy they are able to to get some players that are recruited less heavily. Does Kill's scheme differ enough from most that we will be looking for a different type of player than other schools? In any case, it certainly shows that lower rated class's can be consistently better than we have over the recent years. I can't wait till Spring!
 

It all starts with a vision and good coaching. It is so refreshing to hear a coach talk about substance rather than Rose Bowl promises. I believe coach Kill is the real deal. The stability that he brings with his intact coaching staff and their ability to recruit smartly will pay dividends we shall see in the next three years. It starts with capturing all the good talent in your neighborhood first and then augmenting the needs with talent from the southern belt and elsewhere. I like the 300-mile bulls eye he was talking about. If he can pull it, Gopher Football will rise again.
 

hungan1 said:
It all starts with a vision and good coaching. It is so refreshing to hear a coach talk about substance rather than Rose Bowl promises. I believe coach Kill is the real deal. The stability that he brings with his intact coaching staff and their ability to recruit smartly will pay dividends we shall see in the next three years. It starts with capturing all the good talent in your neighborhood first and then augmenting the needs with talent from the southern belt and elsewhere. I like the 300-mile bulls eye he was talking about. If he can pull it, Gopher Football will rise again.
Click to expand...

Not quite. It all starts with having a solid organization top to bottom and the experience of making it work. This is where Kill seems to have it all over Brewster. It takes the whole package.

Brewster was all about the 'big sell' to recruits and being 'head cheerleader'.
 

LonelyIowaGopher said:
According to Rivals, Wisconsin has ranked in recruiting within the Big 10 Conference over the last ten years as follows:
2002 8th
2003 5th
2004 8th
2005 7th
2006 8th
2007 7th
2008 6th
2009 8th
2010 11th
2011 7th
Wisconsin's average recruiting class has ranked 7.5 over ten years. How many times has Wisconsin gone to a New Year's Day Bowl game in the last ten years? How hard can it be for Minnesota to start competing on an even par with Wisconsin?
Click to expand...

Great stuff Lonely! MV would be very proud of you.

There are other teams such as Boise State and Nevada that seem to also do quite well without having highly ranked recruiting classes. The question is "How do they do it?" My belief is that it takes an exceptional coach that understands all the facets of putting together an effective football program and is highly motivated to succeed.

Hungan1 said it best with the following quote "It all starts with a vision and good coaching. It is so refreshing to hear a coach talk about substance rather than Rose Bowl promises. I believe coach Kill is the real deal. The stability that he brings with his intact coaching staff and their ability to recruit smartly will pay dividends we shall see in the next three years. It starts with capturing all the good talent in your neighborhood first and then augmenting the needs with talent from the southern belt and elsewhere. I like the 300-mile bulls eye he was talking about. If he can pull it, Gopher Football will rise again."

In addition, Kill and his staff also works their tails off and have great integrity. What I like is that they seem to be enjoying every minute of it. Talk about Passion! We need to sign these guys to a L-O-N-G tem contract now.
 


station19 said:
Not quite. It all starts with having a solid organization top to bottom and the experience of making it work. This is where Kill seems to have it all over Brewster. It takes the whole package.

Brewster was all about the 'big sell' to recruits and being 'head cheerleader'.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Both Iowa and Wisconsin have installed systems that are solid from top-to-bottom and recruit to those systems. You get solid kids on both sides of the trench, sprinkle in playmakers, and then hone the offensive and defensive schemes so that kids are assignment-sure and disciplined.

It sounds easier than it is and you still need great athletes in the skilled positions to reach the upper echelons of competition, but I've always believed that if you get solid kids that fit your system and continue to build on a well-conceived foundation, you at least reach the level where you are competitive each time you hit the field. And that's where it has to start.
 

I'm rubbing my eyes! Posters on this thread are actually saying that having a system in place, having a stable staff, "coaching players up" and so forth is important--perhaps as important or even more so than recruiting. Others, of course, will not "get" this.

But I'm also not holding my breath. It will be just a matter of time before someone starts a 2012 recruiting thread--followed by a 2013 recruiting thread. Minnesota must recruit more five star players. Without players that have an explosive first step...
 

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Part of those stats may be that they are keeping players and thus signing smaller classes. The recruiting services rank on quantity as well as quality. If the U develops a stable system where we are redshirting most freshmen and players are staying eligible and not leaving we can expect the same. If everybody took a redshift year, stayed eligible, and didn't leave early, we'd give out 17 a year (5 * 17 = 85). Wisconsin gave out 21 or 22 this year with two guys declaring for the draft. It sounds like coach Kill has the same philosophy. If you think about it, when a school is operating this way, their 'class' is really made up of 20 signees + 5 redshift seniors. What would you rather have?
 




Pointing out the exceptions and trying to make it the rule. The majority of top teams have good recruiting and coaches who can coach them up. It isn't a either or situation.
 

Killjoy,
It's funny you mention Boise State and TCU. Apparently Kill said yesterday that his multiple offense will look a great deal like the one Boise State runs. Also, we know Kill's defenses will be heavily influenced by his best friend, Gary Patterson. As almost everyone knows, Kill was the best man at Patterson's wedding. They talk on the phone at great length almost every day.
 




Killjoy said:
Great stuff Lonely! MV would be very proud of you.

There are other teams such as Boise State and Nevada that seem to also do quite well without having highly ranked recruiting classes. The question is "How do they do it?" My belief is that it takes an exceptional coach that understands all the facets of putting together an effective football program and is highly motivated to succeed.

Hungan1 said it best with the following quote "It all starts with a vision and good coaching. It is so refreshing to hear a coach talk about substance rather than Rose Bowl promises. I believe coach Kill is the real deal. The stability that he brings with his intact coaching staff and their ability to recruit smartly will pay dividends we shall see in the next three years. It starts with capturing all the good talent in your neighborhood first and then augmenting the needs with talent from the southern belt and elsewhere. I like the 300-mile bulls eye he was talking about. If he can pull it, Gopher Football will rise again."

In addition, Kill and his staff also works their tails off and have great integrity. What I like is that they seem to be enjoying every minute of it. Talk about Passion! We need to sign these guys to a L-O-N-G tem contract now.
Click to expand...

Yes! Give Jerry Kill a lifetime contract now! Since he has been so successful here already. Settle down, I like what we have in place too, but nobody knows what results we will see on the field.
 

I forgot to mention that recruiting doesn't matter at Wisconsin because the weather is so much better in Madison than it is in Minneapolis. And, like all Big 10 teams except Minnesota, Wisconsin doesn't have a women's athletic department--or Pam Burton.
 

Wisconsin also has a very good walk on program which is huge for any school. We had a decent one and it looks like it's going to get better.
 

LonelyIowaGopher said:
Killjoy,
It's funny you mention Boise State and TCU. Apparently Kill said yesterday that his multiple offense will look a great deal like the one Boise State runs. Also, we know Kill's defenses will be heavily influenced by his best friend, Gary Patterson. As almost everyone knows, Kill was the best man at Patterson's wedding. They talk on the phone at great length almost every day.
Click to expand...

Jerry Kill is not Gary Patterson, give it a rest. They are great friends but in different situations and their friendship doesn't mean they will necessarily have the same success. Wasn't Mack Brown the godfather to one of Brewster's sons and that friendship didn't exactly equate to them having the same success. I think Kill can do okay but don't expect him to be a Gary Patterson clone.
 

MV

LonelyIowaGopher said:
Killjoy,
Who is MV?
Click to expand...

He is the owner and operator of the FBT blog site. The site is primarily devoted to Gopher football but does have some Gopher basketball info also. It is a great source of current daily information and insight during the week. He also loves to do statistical analysis on a variety of football topics. His site can be accessed by clicking on:

http://fringebowlteamblog.com
 

When did I say Jerry Kill was Gary Patterson? Give what a rest? Or should I be even asking questions of a GopherGod?
 



Replacement Gopher said:
Can someone explain that chart to me?

On the y-axis we have % of All-American players. I would think the sum of the columns on the x-axis would equal 100%.

They don't. So what is the graph representing?
Click to expand...

Must be some D-2 guys making the list haha.
 


This is a very similar point to the one you made in your last thread...

I'd rather go with the percentages and emphasize recruiting well, then pick out a program who seems to be the exception to the rule. The other aspect that you are ignoring is that Wisconsin has come closer to shutting its borders than Minnesota has. I am sure Wisconsin has signed a "Tommy Olson" or two during this time span who would have been a 4 star recruit if not for an early pledge to the home state school.
 


Kill's/Patterson's Relationship Is Meaningful

GopherGod said:
Jerry Kill is not Gary Patterson, give it a rest. They are great friends but in different situations and their friendship doesn't mean they will necessarily have the same success. Wasn't Mack Brown the godfather to one of Brewster's sons and that friendship didn't exactly equate to them having the same success. I think Kill can do okay but don't expect him to be a Gary Patterson clone.
Click to expand...

What an irrelevant comment! Do you really think the relationship Kill has with Patterson is similar to the relationship Brewster has with Brown? If you do, no wonder you don't understand why the Kill/Patterson friendship and relationship is such a great window into understanding Jerry Kill's vision and philosophy about football.

Also, Kill's coordinators have spent time visiting and watching Patterson's staff. No, it doesn't guarantee success but it sure has given Kill success in the past. Not a bad place to be starting from.
 

Khaliq,
It's not only Elvis that has left the room. So has Jack Trice. Believe me, I know. I live thirty miles from Ames, Iowa--the home of Jack Trice Field (within Cyclone Stadium).
 

GopherGod said:
Pointing out the exceptions and trying to make it the rule. The majority of top teams have good recruiting and coaches who can coach them up. It isn't a either or situation.
Click to expand...

This is what I think Lonely is missing.
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
And the statement "recruiting hasn't mattered at Wisconsin" is just flat out wrong.
Click to expand...

I would agree with this; I interpret the evidence at the beginning of the thread to be an indictment of recruiting rankings as opposed to evidence that recruiting does not matter.

Wisconsin has just figured out how to tailor the process to their program exceptionally well. They recruit the right players and that is the key. To state that one can simply go to the little sisters of the poor and install a system and teach anyone is myopic. Bad inputs will never result in good outputs. However, the right inputs can result in good outputs given application of a superior process.
 

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