Recruiting Dry Spell

[John Galt]

We aren't Wisconsin and Iowa. This isn't news. Right now, with this staff, we're in the Purdue and Indiana range. Purdue has 1 commit. Indiana has 0.

I agree, but it better be us soon if we're going to compete with them.

 

[John Galt]

Wrong team. Wrong staff.

Mitch Leider got an offer based on his 7-on-7 stuff, which is basically the same (in-person evaluation). I'm sure there are more like that.

Nick Rallis and Eric Murray were offered by Kill last summer. I forgot about Leidner. Point being, Philip Nelson, Hayes, Pirsig, and McDonald were offered prior to camp, the staff already knew they were good without seeing them in person. Odds are that three of those guys will be better than the "Camp" guys.

 

[nsmike]

You also have to figure that there are 92 uncommited offers out there. Camp, is where some of those offers will change from uncommited, to commited.

 

[Gopherprof]

Nick Rallis and Eric Murray were offered by Kill last summer. I forgot about Leidner. Point being, Philip Nelson, Hayes, Pirsig, and McDonald were offered prior to camp, the staff already knew they were good without seeing them in person. Odds are that three of those guys will be better than the "Camp" guys.

Yeah, of course.

I guess I don't understand what your argument is. It would be nice if we were a destination school for most football players. It would be nice if the state of Minnesota produced elite football talent. Neither of those things is the case. So.....yeah.

Kill's staff is made up of guys who have worked their way through the DII and FCS level. Bill Miller is really the only "ace" recruiter on the staff, and that was many years ago. There is very little that is sexy about this program right now, and the coaching staff adds nothing to that (cosmetically or otherwise).

They got the job based on their coaching and developmental abilities, not their recruiting, and Kill seems intent on winning that way. Which is good, because I don't see many other options.

The Brewster era made recruiting a lot of fun. Unfortunately, he couldn't coach, so the football season basically sucked. I'd rather have it the other way around. Maybe we won't be able to win with the talent we have, but, again, I don't really see what our other options are. Anyone that is already both an elite coach and an elite recruiter isn't going to want this job.

 

[OutHouseGopher]

According to Rivals free information:

Minnesota:
131 Offers (39 Committed)
1 Commitment
1/39= 2.56% success

Wisconsin
69 Offers (37 Committed)
6 Commitments
6/37= 16.22% success

Iowa
87 Offers (45 Committed)
8 Commitments
8/45= 17.8% success

So, we have almost as many offers out as IA & Wi combined? So much for the "limited offers out theory." At they same time, IA & WI jointly have 14 comitts to our 1? So much for the "no need to panic theory!" Good info, GV. The Kool-Aid Sect is going to have a hard time spinning this.

 

[Gopherprof]

So, we have almost as many offers out as IA & Wi combined? So much for the "limited offers out theory." At they same time, IA & WI jointly have 14 comitts to our 1? So much for the "no need to panic theory!" Good info, GV. The Kool-Aid Sect is going to have a hard time spinning this.

I'm certainly not in the kool-aid sect, but what is there to panic about, exactly?

 

[upnorthkid]

So, we have almost as many offers out as IA & Wi combined? So much for the "limited offers out theory." At they same time, IA & WI jointly have 14 comitts to our 1? So much for the "no need to panic theory!" Good info, GV. The Kool-Aid Sect is going to have a hard time spinning this.

considering the top 21 of those guys are 4 and 5 stars and the vast majority of the rest are 3 stars from out of state, I really see nothing to be worried about. If we would land even 1 or 2 of those guys (I'm talking the 4+ star players) this would be comparable or better than the classes we usually sign. If we had a ton of offers out to MN kids and still were waiting, then I would be more concerned. Most of the kids we've offered probably have never even been to MN and I really can't imagine any kid committing to MN based on name alone. Wisc has been to the Rose Bowl and Iowa has been touted as being great for getting kids to the NFL so they have a large advantage based on name alone.

 

[GoAUpher]

So, we have almost as many offers out as IA & Wi combined? So much for the "limited offers out theory." At they same time, IA & WI jointly have 14 comitts to our 1? So much for the "no need to panic theory!" Good info, GV. The Kool-Aid Sect is going to have a hard time spinning this.

Spinning what? You still haven't made an argument. All we've got here is numbers comparing MN to 2 programs that are better without an appropriate level of detail (like the information listed by upnorthkid) to judge anything effectively.

 

[highwayman]

Nick Rallis and Eric Murray were offered by Kill last summer. I forgot about Leidner. Point being, Philip Nelson, Hayes, Pirsig, and McDonald were offered prior to camp, the staff already knew they were good without seeing them in person. Odds are that three of those guys will be better than the "Camp" guys.

Kill and staff made NO offers last year without an in-person evaluation. They will not make any this year as well. Kill will not rely on only film. He requires in-person evaluations on every player. Requires it. He's spoken of it dozens, if not hundreds of times.

2010 might have been an exception (due to Maturi's insistence Kill was to honor Brewster's offers). I still think they evaluated every player in that class in person, but I can't be sure.

 

[CrocShots]

On the one hand, they don't want just start handing them out, because then they might use up their allotment, and not have one available for a blue-chip player who doesn't commit early.

On the other hand, if they try to save too many scholarships for later in the process, they might get caught if players they like commit early, and the Gophs could wind up having to make offers to second-tier candidates.

They can always pull offers.

 

[Sparlimb]

If you extend a limited number of offers thus far and those offers are to players who don't commit early (because they are being recruited by many BCS programs) then not having a lot of early verbals is to be expected. Are you saying we should be expecting the unexpected?

Right....We're waiting one the big boys, except all the almost big boys already committed to the Prestigious programs and the Big Boys who haven't comitted yet will be comitting to those same programs. Anyone expecting Kill to get more than a handful of players with multiple BCS offers any specific year is nuts. Maybe after a couple of 10 win years, but that's so long off I can't see that far in the future. Better get used to fighting MAC schools for recruits, that's what we got. And to think that's why we ran off the best coach we had in 40 years...

 

[dpodoll68]

Kill and staff made NO offers last year without an in-person evaluation.

There is no way this is accurate. Kill and staff were hired after the HS Jr. seasons of all of these players were over. McDonald, Nelson, Pirsig, and M. Williams (at least) all had offers before the spring camp season. There is no way all of those players received in-game evaluations by Kill or his staff while all of them were at NIU. They're not going to invest that much time on players they have no shot with, and they had zero shot with any of those players while at NIU.

 

[dpodoll68]

Right....We're waiting one the big boys, except all the almost big boys already committed to the Prestigious programs and the Big Boys who haven't comitted yet will be comitting to those same programs. Anyone expecting Kill to get more than a handful of players with multiple BCS offers any specific year is nuts. Maybe after a couple of 10 win years, but that's so long off I can't see that far in the future. Better get used to fighting MAC schools for recruits, that's what we got. And to think that's why we ran off the best coach we had in 40 years...

Virtually everything in this post is speculative at best to flat-out wrong at worst.

 

[Dr.Don]

Virtually everything in this post is speculative at best to flat-out wrong at worst.

Sounds like lots of other threads here, dpo.

 

[EG#9]

Not many scholarships to give this year, but to not be at least a bit concerned is to have your head in the sand. The offers are out there, they just are not being accepted.

 

[John Galt]

Right....We're waiting one the big boys, except all the almost big boys already committed to the Prestigious programs and the Big Boys who haven't comitted yet will be comitting to those same programs. Anyone expecting Kill to get more than a handful of players with multiple BCS offers any specific year is nuts. Maybe after a couple of 10 win years, but that's so long off I can't see that far in the future. Better get used to fighting MAC schools for recruits, that's what we got. And to think that's why we ran off the best coach we had in 40 years...

I can't tell if you're being serious or sarcastic? Without looking it up, we probably had over 20 players from the 2012 recruiting class with multiple BCS offers, so we should all expect more than a handful.

 

[ruppertflywheel]

If after the camps conclude and if we don't pickup 4-5 commitments I will have a concern. The coaches are doing an awful lot of evaluating at southern spring games. It looks like we will have a good amount of kids from all over he country attending the camps if what they're saying via the Rival's network is true by word of mouth from the kids. The "star" power of the kids who say they're attending is 2-3 stars. I believe there was one 4 star QB who said he may visit or attend.
This is a small class and I would hope we get kids with quality BCS offers

 

[Deleted_User]

According to Rivals free information:

Minnesota:
131 Offers (39 Committed)
1 Commitment
1/39= 2.56% success

Wisconsin
69 Offers (37 Committed)
6 Commitments
6/37= 16.22% success

Iowa
87 Offers (45 Committed)
8 Commitments
8/45= 17.8% success

Looks like Kill is not focused on particular types of recruits. He focuses on quantity to make up for quality recruiting.

 

[OutHouseGopher]

Looks like Kill is not focused on particular types of recruits. He focuses on quantity to make up for quality recruiting.

The funny thing is, upon some research, MN has more offers out than all but 2 Big 10 schools. However, the Kool-Aid Sect sits here and stutters about how we have 1 commit in June because "Kill has put out so few offers this year due to a lack of scholarships." It's just amazing what people will say here with ZERO basis.

 

[highwayman]

There is no way this is accurate. Kill and staff were hired after the HS Jr. seasons of all of these players were over. McDonald, Nelson, Pirsig, and M. Williams (at least) all had offers before the spring camp season. There is no way all of those players received in-game evaluations by Kill or his staff while all of them were at NIU. They're not going to invest that much time on players they have no shot with, and they had zero shot with any of those players while at NIU.

Actually, I'm 100% accurate. I confirmed it with a staff member. Kill and staff have never offered to a player at the U that they have not had an in-person evaluation. Read the previous post, read this one again--carefully--and the read your response. You'll get what I mean.

 

[dpodoll68]

Actually, I'm 100% accurate. I confirmed it with a staff member. Kill and staff have never offered to a player at the U that they have not had an in-person evaluation. Read the previous post, read this one again--carefully--and the read your response. You'll get what I mean.

I don't care what the staff member said. There is no possible way that they had an in-person evaluation of everyone they offered prior to spring camps. The timeline does not work. Meeting and talking with someone in person (which is what I assume you meant) is not an "in-person evaluation" in a football sense (i.e., going to a HS football game or watching a player at a camp), which is clearly what Galt is referring to in the post you quoted.

 

[GoAUpher]

Right....We're waiting one the big boys, except all the almost big boys already committed to the Prestigious programs and the Big Boys who haven't comitted yet will be comitting to those same programs. Anyone expecting Kill to get more than a handful of players with multiple BCS offers any specific year is nuts. Maybe after a couple of 10 win years, but that's so long off I can't see that far in the future. Better get used to fighting MAC schools for recruits, that's what we got. And to think that's why we ran off the best coach we had in 40 years...

Where did I say anything about being a big boy or expecting him to sign the highly recruited players? In fact, if you read it again you'll see that I'm suggesting we are not one of the big boys and we shouldn't expect all those recruits to sign. And that this very fact could explain the lack of offers because the bulk of the offers given thus far are to the "big time" recruits who will be difficult for us to sign (and who don't often verbal early with programs like ours) or out of state recruits (who aren't as likely to verbal early either). Reading comprehension, it's a skill.

 

[GoAUpher]

Not many scholarships to give this year, but to not be at least a bit concerned is to have your head in the sand. The offers are out there, they just are not being accepted.

And who are they out to? Many of them went to recruits who you wouldn't expect to verbal early with Minnesota given the current stature of the program. Details are important.

 

[GoAUpher]

The funny thing is, upon some research, MN has more offers out than all but 2 Big 10 schools. However, the Kool-Aid Sect sits here and stutters about how we have 1 commit in June because "Kill has put out so few offers this year due to a lack of scholarships." It's just amazing what people will say here with ZERO basis.

And you still haven't explained why we should be worried given the details on who the offers went out to. I'll admit that I was under the impression that we had given out fewer offers than we have. I was wrong. But given that they are mostly to players who you wouldn't expect to verbal to the MN program early I still don't see why this is a worry. All you're doing is latching on to numbers without context and going "see!!!!!" without bothering to explain why any of this should be concerning.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

And you still haven't explained why we should be worried given the details on who the offers went out to. I'll admit that I was under the impression that we had given out fewer offers than we have. I was wrong. But given that they are mostly to players who you wouldn't expect to verbal to the MN program early I still don't see why this is a worry. All you're doing is latching on to numbers without context and going "see!!!!!" without bothering to explain why any of this should be concerning.

I think the issue that people have is the concern that Kill has these offers out to guys that we aren't going to get and during that time he is letting players who might be able to help our program commit elsewhere (Cottrell).

 

[Monty519]

I can't tell if you're being serious or sarcastic? Without looking it up, we probably had over 20 players from the 2012 recruiting class with multiple BCS offers, so we should all expect more than a handful.

That's not the case. I remember looking this up before and I believe only 10 of them even had a BCS offer, and only 5 had multiple based on Rivals offers, which I know aren't necessarily reliable, but definitely is enough to show that we definitely didn't have over 20 guys with multiple BCS offers. Even Brewster's famed 2008 class had 25 guys with BCS offers and 19 with multiple offers and that class had 31 guys in it.

Fact is, while we're not quite "fighting MAC schools for recruits" level, we're not gonna be a school that lands a boatload of kids with multiple BCS offers for quite a while. Landing that many kids with those offer sheets puts you in the top 25 for recruiting, a place we've been once in the last bunch of years.

I'm not concerned at this point cause the combo of less scholarships, less local talent, combined with two straight 3-9 seasons, you're not gonna net a ton of "wanted" prospects early. You're gonna have to win them over time, shouldn't be too surprising to see only one commit. At least that commit is of good caliber, it's not like it's just some random unheralded kid.

 

[GoAUpher]

I think the issue that people have is the concern that Kill has these offers out to guys that we aren't going to get and during that time he is letting players who might be able to help our program commit elsewhere (Cottrell).

I think that would be a fair critique of his recruiting style. But that's a different point then the one I've been pushing back at. Thus far, folks are simply saying it's bad that we don't have more recruits right now without explaining why we should be expecting or seeing more by now based on the current strategy. Your take explains a concern, but it's based on the concern that Kill is using the wrong strategy.

 

[John Galt]

I think that would be a fair critique of his recruiting style. But that's a different point then the one I've been pushing back at. Thus far, folks are simply saying it's bad that we don't have more recruits right now without explaining why we should be expecting or seeing more by now based on the current strategy. Your take explains a concern, but it's based on the concern that Kill is using the wrong strategy.

GV posted the stats from Rivals. We should be expecting more "if" we hope to compete with Iowa and Wisconsin 3-4 years from now. We have offered almost twice as many players, and have 1 commitment versus 8 and 6 for each of them. If you believe that Jerry Kill's player development and game-day coaching skills are so far superior to Bielema and Ferentz that we can continually finish 10-12 in recruiting while they finish in the top 1/2 of the Big Ten and still be a superior program, then by all means, don't concern yourself with it. There is a correlation between recruiting rankings and winning that would say otherwise though. I realize it's still early and we have time on our side, so hopefully the staff has been building good relationships with the players that haven't committed and they are seriously considering the "U" and will begin to make plans for visiting in the summer months.

 

[GoAUpher]

GV posted the stats from Rivals. We should be expecting more "if" we hope to compete with Iowa and Wisconsin 3-4 years from now. We have offered almost twice as many players, and have 1 commitment versus 8 and 6 for each of them.

And upnorthkid provided the context. The bulk of the players offered are not the kind you'd expect to commit to MN right now. You're simply setting unrealistic (and pointless) expectations given the types of kids offered. You keep listing the IA/WI numbers without listing any pertinent details of those verbals (or their wider offer approaches) and despite the fact that you've already acknowledged that we cannot be reasonably compared with either program right now.

If you believe that Jerry Kill's player development and game-day coaching skills are so far superior to Bielema and Ferentz that we can continually finish 10-12 in recruiting while they finish in the top 1/2 of the Big Ten and still be a superior program, then by all means, don't concern yourself with it. There is a correlation between recruiting rankings and winning that would say otherwise though. I realize it's still early and we have time on our side, so hopefully the staff has been building good relationships with the players that haven't committed and they are seriously considering the "U" and will begin to make plans for visiting in the summer months.

How many verbals the Gophers have at some random point in May holds no bearing on how we'll do against WI and IA in 3-4 years. Our final classes at NSD and what the coaching staff does with them will. Your mention of correlation between recruiting rankings and success (a concept which I agree with) is not in any way applicable to you worrying about what is happening with verbals right now. That's based off final classes. Unless you can provide some stats that show teams with X number of verbals by the end of May consistently finish with better classes you're tying together two completely unrelated topics.

 

[John Galt]

And upnorthkid provided the context. The bulk of the players offered are not the kind you'd expect to commit to MN right now. You're simply setting unrealistic (and pointless) expectations given the types of kids offered. You keep listing the IA/WI numbers without listing any pertinent details of those verbals (or their wider offer approaches) and despite the fact that you've already acknowledged that we cannot be reasonably compared with either program right now.

How many verbals the Gophers have at some random point in May holds no bearing on how we'll do against WI and IA in 3-4 years. Our final classes at NSD and what the coaching staff does with them will. Your mention of correlation between recruiting rankings and success (a concept which I agree with) is not in any way applicable to you worrying about what is happening with verbals right now. That's based off final classes. Unless you can provide some stats that show teams with X number of verbals by the end of May consistently finish with better classes you're tying together two completely unrelated topics.

Of course my timing is arbitrary, I'm writing the thread today based on what's true right now. If we have 8 commits at the end of the summer, I'll possibly be inclined to start a new thread then and state that recruiting seems to be going well. I called our 2012 class "historic" and was ripped for it, so I'm hardly Mr. Negative. Our biggest rivals are Iowa and Wisconsin, so why should I compare us to Purdue and Indiana? For Kill to be successful, he will need to beat the Hawks and Skunks. That's a large part of how our turnaround will be measured. Brewster didn't and was fired despite having 6 and 7 win seasons.