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Indi1006

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They can't get open very well and worse is that when they get the ball thrown to them neither Engel nor Freuchte go up and fight for the ball. Terrible, and it takes no talent to fight like your life depends on it when the ball is thrown your way. It is like the Vikings last year; Ponder struggled and wasn't very good but I don't know that he had anywhere to throw the ball a lot of the time. The two things that worry me most about tonight was our passing game and pass rush. Both need a lot of improvement.
 

Indi1006 said:
They can't get open very well and worse is that when they get the ball thrown to them neither Engel nor Freuchte go up and fight for the ball. Terrible, and it takes no talent to fight like your life depends on it when the ball is thrown your way. It is like the Vikings last year; Ponder struggled and wasn't very good but I don't know that he had anywhere to throw the ball a lot of the time. The two things that worry me most about tonight was our passing game and pass rush. Both need a lot of improvement.
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Agreed, especially with the bolded.
 

I would like a few under routes to be run. Drag across the middle. The corner routes aren't there until you hit some short ones.
 

Said the same thing about Engel at one point tonight. Don't agree about Fruechte though, he'll go get the ball.

Bottom line is we couldn't get any WR separation because we're not very good at WR.
 

We don't have much here and we won't be able to win in the big ten if someone doesn't step up. Hope we are looking at a JUCO for next year.

McDonald are Barker are idiots.
 


Did anyone hear anything about Harbison? He was not on the injury report but looking at the participation list for the game last night it doesn't look like he played. Given what we saw from the receivers last night he may be key to getting any solid production out of that unit but he is a crap shoot coming off his injury from last year. I have not read all the write-ups from last night so maybe it got addressed there.

I mentioned over in the offense thread that I am more concerned about the WR position than I was before the season after what we saw last night. Hopefully I end up being wrong and some guys step up, but I just don't see a lot of talent out there at WR. I do think we potentially have some very good TE's, that TD catch by Maxx Williams was awesome and he did some great work blocking as well. But you need those guys on the outside to stretch the field and open things up for the run and short passing games.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Did anyone hear anything about Harbison? He was not on the injury report but looking at the participation list for the game last night it doesn't look like he played.
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He wasn't dressed. Maybe it is just a precaution.
 


Engel just isn't very good, no offense to the kid. The one pass inside the 5 NEEDS to be caught, no ifs ands or buts. He also should have made a better attempt at the ball that was intercepted. I just don't think he has very good ball skills, which is critical for a WR.
 



jaymil said:
Engel just isn't very good, no offense to the kid. The one pass inside the 5 NEEDS to be caught, no ifs ands or buts. He also should have made a better attempt at the ball that was intercepted. I just don't think he has very good ball skills, which is critical for a WR.
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I think he's a really good athlete, but that's only part of being an effective wide receiver. He's got some nice, easy speed, but it doesn't look like he breaks for the ball very well, either out of his cut or when the ball is in the air.

If Harbison and the freshmen practice well, they are going to see a ton of action.
 

50PoundHead said:
I think he's a really good athlete, but that's only part of being an effective wide receiver. He's got some nice, easy speed, but it doesn't look like he breaks for the ball very well, either out of his cut or when the ball is in the air.

If Harbison and the freshmen practice well, they are going to see a ton of action.
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I didn't see ANY separation to indicate that he has anything but average speed.
 

Wouldn't You like to Know said:
I didn't see ANY separation to indicate that he has anything but average speed.
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I think the fact that we are even worried about Engel being one of our main options is a huge indication of the problem we have at WR. This is not meant as a shot at him by any means he just isn't a top flight division 1 WR. He is the kind of player you want as your #3 or #4 guy who can make a play from time to time but not be someone you rely on as a key target in your passing offense.

Fruechte is in the same boat. I just don't think guys like Engel and Fruechte are starting caliber Big Ten Wide Receivers.
 

MNVCGUY said:
I think the fact that we are even worried about Engel being one of our main options is a huge indication of the problem we have at WR. This is not meant as a shot at him by any means he just isn't a top flight division 1 WR. He is the kind of player you want as your #3 or #4 guy who can make a play from time to time but not be someone you rely on as a key target in your passing offense.

Fruechte is in the same boat. I just don't think guys like Engel and Fruechte are starting caliber Big Ten Wide Receivers.
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Couldn't have said it better myself. We really need a guy like Donovan Jones to learn quickly and Harbison to live up to last years hype.
 



Harbison is a smaller inside guy, much more like KJ Maye. If you're looking at him to replace Engel or Freuchte in stretching the outside, I'd look elsewhere.
 


Gopherprof said:
Harbison is a smaller inside guy, much more like KJ Maye. If you're looking at him to replace Engel or Freuchte in stretching the outside, I'd look elsewhere.
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We need Andre McDonald to get his crap together and Donovahn Jones to be a quick study.
 

Wouldn't You like to Know said:
I didn't see ANY separation to indicate that he has anything but average speed.
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It takes more than speed to get separation. D1 CBs can "run" with just about anyone. It's explosion coming out of cuts that create separation. If you watch Crawford-Tufts' highlights, you'd see the same thing and he's faster than Engel. Engel is a loper. Nice, easy stride.
 

Everything said here us right RE Engle and Fruechte and needing someone else to step up. I've been well documented on the belief. Wolitarsky and Harbison can help, but neither will be the stretch the field from the flank guy. Jones nay be our only hope for that this year. Asking a lot of a true Freshman tho.
 


I was expecting a Weber like bashing of someone who can't throw a catchable ball down field.
 

50PoundHead said:
It takes more than speed to get separation. D1 CBs can "run" with just about anyone. It's explosion coming out of cuts that create separation. If you watch Crawford-Tufts' highlights, you'd see the same thing and he's faster than Engel. Engel is a loper. Nice, easy stride.
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I know that. He has 0 quicks or moves.
 


50PoundHead said:
Which is why he's not the answer at WR.
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So the question becomes, who is the answer?

I am not as sold on Wolitarsky as some in here, I think a lot gets made of the numbers he put up in the state of California but when I see that red flags go up because a top receiver in California should not end up in Minnesota, there are too many schools in between to get past.

Harbison showed potential before he got hurt. Tough to say what they will get out of him this year and beyond.

Jones - Seems like a great athlete, can he be a great receiver?

McDonald - Can he ever get his head screwed on straight before wasting away his entire college career?

I don't know the answer but I sure don't see a lot of good options at the moment.

Maye - Seems to have some ability, not sure he can be a go to option
 

50PoundHead said:
It takes more than speed to get separation. D1 CBs can "run" with just about anyone. It's explosion coming out of cuts that create separation.
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+1 Good route running, which includes fakes and cuts, is key for separation.
 

Has there been a final word on McDonald's fate? I know it was going to be addressed after camp; I'm wondering if I missed it?
 

My biggest concern in the 1st quarter was the UNLV DB's seemed to be running the routes right alongside our WR's. There were no receivers flashing open. As a result, Nelson was not driving the ball. He was trying to put some air under the ball and float it in there. It seemed every pass was a jump ball.
Later in the game, they were running more drag routes and passed to the TE's more. Nelson did a better job on these throws.
 

I agree that the outside guys did not have a lot of separation. There was the really nice pass Nelson made to Engle's (I think) outside shoulder at the 5. There was one other play where Nelson bootlegged to the right, the corner bit and Fruechte broke free deep and was not seen.
 

Let me be the first to nominate Marcus Jones back to offense, scat back and slot WR.

You execute those middle screens with Marcus Jones catching the ball instead of our tailbacks and he is almost flat gone.
We need Marcus Jones speed much more on offense than at 3rd team defensive back.
The kid is a playmaker he shows that on special teams all of the time. Some Jet sweeps and a few bubble screens
would look a lot better with Jones running them with the exception of KJ Maye. This is the Stoudirmire delima except Marcus Jones
has lightening quicks something we need on offense. It is time for the coaches to end this defensive experiment, come
to there senses and move Jones back to offense.
 

I think he did pretty well last night. I think it is a smart way to use Jones. His knees may not hold out if he is a full time offense or defensive guy.
Maye and Harbison will be good slot guys. Hopefully Jones and maybe McDonald can stretch the field a bit.
 

gopherdudepart2 said:
You execute those middle screens with Marcus Jones catching the ball instead of our tailbacks and he is almost flat gone.
We need Marcus Jones speed much more on offense than at 3rd team defensive back.
The kid is a playmaker he shows that on special teams all of the time. Some Jet sweeps and a few bubble screens
would look a lot better with Jones running them with the exception of KJ Maye. This is the Stoudirmire delima except Marcus Jones
has lightening quicks something we need on offense. It is time for the coaches to end this defensive experiment, come
to there senses and move Jones back to offense.
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i don't think the move to D was based on skill...he has had both ACLs replaced. He can't take the wear and tear (right now at least) of playing offense. Returns and back up DD seem to work.
 

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