Realistic expectations for 2023-24?

[Dakota2]

We didn't get blown out at home by a historically worse basketball program, who has a coach in the same year as ours, who is now 6 games ahead of us in the conference. What an accomplishment.

And having so many 4s on the team is exactly why the matchups were so ridiculous last night. Our guards were terrible and Garcia was guarding Pickett, and Ola-Joseph was guarding Njie at the beginning of the game.

Our guards were terrible if you ignore the fact Cooper had eight assists, four blocked shots and some rebounds. And Henley had five assists.

But what makes you so hilarious is that you think having eight more guys like Samuels makes us a tournament team because we would no longer have 35 forwards.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Our guards were terrible if you ignore the fact Cooper had eight assists, four blocked shots and some rebounds. And Henley had five assists.

But what makes you so hilarious is that you think having eight more guys like Samuels makes us a tournament team because we would no longer have 35 forwards.

Yeah I never said that. Your only argument is to make up things that were never said.

But you have said repeatedly that Ben is a good coach and a good recruiter and already better than Pitino. Really shows how little you know about basketball.

 

[Dakota2]

Cooper
Christie (Could easily be Carrington or Henley)
Battle
Garcia
Payne

This is our current lineup (minus Christie) and we are getting destroyed. If this is our lineup next season (unless Christie is all american as a freshman) we will go 1-19 in conference again.

That would assume Battle can never return to his last year production or better and that Payne made no improvement.

 

[cjbfbp]

What else would you like to talk about during the worst 2 year stretch in program history? This board is already dead, and I’m one of the few posters who still care about the program.

If you don’t want to talk about the current state of the program and how it’s unacceptable to be this bad, and why the future is bleak until significant changes are made, then feel free to ignore me.

Wow! It's one thing to be a tedious and relentlessly negative and humorless asshole with a one-track mind but being defiantly proud of all of that and characterizing those attributes as "caring" takes it to a different level. No, the board is not "dead" but I think you may be brain dead.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Wow! It's one thing to be a tedious and relentlessly negative and humorless asshole with a one-track mind but being defiantly proud of all of that and characterizing those attributes as "caring" takes it to a different level. No, the board is not "dead" but I think you may be brain dead.

Good one.

What is brain dead is continuing to defend a B1G team and coach that would struggle to finish in the top half of the Summit.

 

[Bad Gopher]

I got burned this year with outsized expectations. We're going to keep it modest for next year. Finish higher than UST in both KenPom and Sagarin. Finish in something other than last place in the conference. Neither of those things will be easy, actually.

 

[Dakota2]

Think if Garcia and Battle turned into KG and Kevin Durant, we wouldn’t need guards at all.

This is a bad argument and my comment is over the top. In order for our guys (Garcia and battle) to get to all Big Ten levels, they would need competent guards to reprieve pressure off them and get them the ball in the right place at the right time. Better low post entries, better outlet passes… you can’t trot out a complete dumpster fire at the fiat positions and think you will have two guys being all conference.

It wasn't me who said Battle would be All Conference. It was basketball writers who put him on the list pre-season.

That he has played poorly this season as compared to last year and to expectations is not due to our guard play. It is due to his health issues.

Garcia has been good when not injured because of his ability, not in spite of guard play,

 

[Dakota2]

If Fox returns next season, he would have to beat out Battle, Garcia, Ihnen, Payne, Evans, JOJ. I do not see him beating out any of those players for playing time.

Based on the countless times you've seen him play? Based on close observation of when he has practiced with the team? Based on careful monitoring of his rehab?

Check the box scores of some highly rated teams. Many play 10-12 guys, especially if they are high pressure teams.

 

[Dakota2]

Yeah I never said that. Your only argument is to make up things that were never said.

But you have said repeatedly that Ben is a good coach and a good recruiter and already better than Pitino. Really shows how little you know about basketball.

And this above shows how little you know about honesty. Show me any post where I have said Johnson is a good coach and already better than Pitino.

I have said Ben has so far done very well recruiting and not very well coaching. He can get better just as Fleck has improved his game prep and game day performance.

 

[cjbfbp]

Good one.

What is brain dead is continuing to defend a B1G team and coach that would struggle to finish in the top half of the Summit.

I'm not defending anything. I'm just making the best of a bad situation. As I see it, the only course of action is to wait it out, hope the situation improves or the current coach is fired before failure becomes intractable, and, in the meantime, enjoy the few positive moments while trying to stay light hearted about all the bad ones. I agree with those who say that Johnson will be here at least one more year and possibly even two.

I'm not sure what you think you're accomplishing.

 

[cjbfbp]

Finish higher than UST in both KenPom and Sagarin. Finish in something other than last place in the conference. Neither of those things will be easy, actually.

Well, remember, the worse you are, the easier it is to show improvement. The same idea could be applied to youth and inexperience. Here are most of Penn State's players from the game last night:

Pickett - this is his 5th year as a starting player

Seth Lundy - 4th year as a full or part-time starter

Andrew Funk - 5th year player who has been a starter for 4 of those

Camren Winter - 5th year starter

Myles Dread - 5th year player who has started the majority of his games

Michael Henn - 7th year in college (with 5 different teams!) and 5th year of playing

The other PSU players who were in the game were freshman but between the 3 of them they played a total of only 30 minutes.

Despite that huge experiential advantage, PSU was only 7 points better last night. I'd say there is a pretty fair chance that we could be at least better than them next season.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

I'm not defending anything. I'm just making the best of a bad situation. As I see it, the only course of action is to wait it out, hope the situation improves or the current coach is fired before failure becomes intractable, and, in the meantime, enjoy the few positive moments while trying to stay light hearted about all the bad ones. I agree with those who say that Johnson will be here at least one more year and possibly even two.

I'm not sure what you think you're accomplishing.

What are you accomplishing? It's a message board. If you don't like what I say, then don't respond.

Gopher basketball will be at the bottom of the conference until he is replaced with someone who can actually coach and recruit at this level.

A real program would have never hired Johnson, and a real program would rectify this colossal mistake after this season. Unfortunately this isn't a real basketball program and the university doesn't care about winning. Too many fans are too passive like yourself and will just accept this disaster for a few more seasons. It's already intractable.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Well, remember, the worse you are, the easier it is to show improvement. The same idea could be applied to youth and inexperience. Here are most of Penn State's players from the game last night:

Pickett - this is his 5th year as a starting player

Seth Lundy - 4th year as a full or part-time starter

Andrew Funk - 5th year player who has been a starter for 4 of those

Camren Winter - 5th year starter

Myles Dread - 5th year player who has started the majority of his games

Michael Henn - 7th year in college (with 5 different teams!) and 5th year of playing

The other PSU players who were in the game were freshman but between the 3 of them they played a total of only 30 minutes.

Despite that huge experiential advantage, PSU was only 7 points better last night. I'd say there is a pretty fair chance that we could be at least better than them next season.

Pickett, Funk, Wynter, Henn, and the freshman were all brought in by Shrewsberry over the last 1-2 seasons. On this team, only Lundy and Dread were recruited to stay from the prior staff, and they had 9 points between the two of them last night.

With all those new pieces, how could Shrewsberry possibly have won 7 B1G games so far this season, which is also only his 2nd season, while Ben has only won 5 total in two years?

 

[MNVCGUY]

Too many fans are too passive like yourself and will just accept this disaster for a few more seasons. It's already intractable.

So what exactly do you expect us as fans to do? Should we be protesting out in front of the facility.....good lord.....you act like there is something we can all do to change things.

You've made up your mind on Johnson....good for you....maybe you will be right in the long run. But many of us are willing to let things play out a little longer and see what happens. You'll have to forgive us for being passive and trying to stay optimistic when viewing something we have zero control over. We can't all be warriors like yourself.

Doubt you will find anyone in the fanbase that is happy about the current state of the program. But the reality is that Johnson is in his second year and deserves more time to right the ship. If we are still struggling this much one year from now you will have a lot more people thinking the way you do.

 

[cjbfbp]

A real program would have never hired Johnson, and a real program would rectify this colossal mistake after this season. Unfortunately this isn't a real basketball program and the university doesn't care about winning. Too many fans are too passive like yourself and will just accept this disaster for a few more seasons. It's already intractable.

I don't actually disagree with that bolded line. In fact, I've indicated similar thoughts on these pages. I think the U cares about football and hockey right now and is willing to tread water in other sports.

BUT, what the hell are YOU doing about that? A BIG NOTHING! If you really cared, you'd organize a drive (and donate generously yourself) to raise a big bunch of cash for the university with the instructions that this money should be applied to any buyout or hiring of a basketball coach. You won't do that, of course. My guess is that you're lazy and an inveterate cheapskate in addition to a being a defiant blockhead. Your "caring" efforts are limited to droning on about "passive" fans and boring the hell out of everyone else on this message board.

 

[cjbfbp]

Pickett, Funk, Wynter, Henn, and the freshman were all brought in by Shrewsberry over the last 1-2 seasons. On this team, only Lundy and Dread were recruited to stay from the prior staff, and they had 9 points between the two of them last night.

With all those new pieces, how could Shrewsberry possibly have won 7 B1G games so far this season, which is also only his 2nd season, while Ben has only won 5 total in two years?

My reply to Bad Gopher was directed at his "forward" looking comment about possible improvement next season. In case you don't realize this, a TIME MACHINE is a device used in fictional stories. In real life you can't climb into one and change actions, or lack of, from the past.

 

[Gophers7633]

Well, remember, the worse you are, the easier it is to show improvement. The same idea could be applied to youth and inexperience. Here are most of Penn State's players from the game last night:

Pickett - this is his 5th year as a starting player

Seth Lundy - 4th year as a full or part-time starter

Andrew Funk - 5th year player who has been a starter for 4 of those

Camren Winter - 5th year starter

Myles Dread - 5th year player who has started the majority of his games

Michael Henn - 7th year in college (with 5 different teams!) and 5th year of playing

The other PSU players who were in the game were freshman but between the 3 of them they played a total of only 30 minutes.

Despite that huge experiential advantage, PSU was only 7 points better last night. I'd say there is a pretty fair chance that we could be at least better than them next season.

Pickett, Funk and Winter were all portal adds. Meaning Shrewsbury has a track record of landing good/great players from the portal. There is no guarantee we are going to be better than anyone.

 

[topos]

Pickett, Funk, Wynter, Henn, and the freshman were all brought in by Shrewsberry over the last 1-2 seasons. On this team, only Lundy and Dread were recruited to stay from the prior staff, and they had 9 points between the two of them last night.

With all those new pieces, how could Shrewsberry possibly have won 7 B1G games so far this season, which is also only his 2nd season, while Ben has only won 5 total in two years?

As much as you hate Ben and want him to fail, you make me feel better about the trajectory of our team with this last post.

Would any objective poster here, who watched the game last night, trade our current roster for Shrewsberry's roster?

Penn State has six seniors (five of them are 5th-year seniors that will all be gone next year). Seniors played 85% of the minutes last night for Penn State.

Back to the portal for a new team for Shrews in 2023/2024!

Penn State's best recruit from the 2022 class, Nije, a 4*, was absolutely owned by Payne last night. Give me three more years of that, please!

JOJ is adding another dimension to his game (our 2nd best 3-pt shooter all of a sudden), Henley is looking more comfortable, and Garcia, when healthy, is undoubtedly our best player who could be here for two more years.

I'm not saying Ben hasn't made mistakes and doesn't have work to do (primarily getting a true PG in the portal). I'd wager a healthy sum; we will be significantly better than Penn State next year.

As we learned during the Pitino years, living off the transfer portal is volatile. For every Akeen Springs, there was a Brock Stull, Alihan Demir, and Both Gach.

@GopherWeatherGuy - You talk about how good of a job Shrewsberry has done compared to Ben and how superior he is, and then in other threads, when posters mention the improved play, you pull out, "We lost to a historically worse Penn State program at home, this is an embarrassment."

Which is it?

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this team will be okay and be fun again very soon. Bookmark it.

 

[Crappie]

Christie is not ready for B1G play. He is too skinny and he is not a speed guy. He also has a ways to go on D, the games I have seen of him he is getting blown by.

It's fun to watch gh plug in fr after fr for big things. Idiotic, but fun.

 

[Crappie]

As much as you hate Ben and want him to fail, you make me feel better about the trajectory of our team with this last post.

Would any objective poster here, who watched the game last night, trade our current roster for Shrewsberry's roster?

Penn State has six seniors (five of them are 5th-year seniors that will all be gone next year). Seniors played 85% of the minutes last night for Penn State.

Back to the portal for a new team for Shrews in 2023/2024!

Penn State's best recruit from the 2022 class, Nije, a 4*, was absolutely owned by Payne last night. Give me three more years of that, please!

JOJ is adding another dimension to his game (our 2nd best 3-pt shooter all of a sudden), Henley is looking more comfortable, and Garcia, when healthy, is undoubtedly our best player who could be here for two more years.

I'm not saying Ben hasn't made mistakes and doesn't have work to do (primarily getting a true PG in the portal). I'd wager a healthy sum; we will be significantly better than Penn State next year.

As we learned during the Pitino years, living off the transfer portal is volatile. For every Akeen Springs, there was a Brock Stull, Alihan Demir, and Both Gach.

@GopherWeatherGuy - You talk about how good of a job Shrewsberry has done compared to Ben and how superior he is, and then in other threads, when posters mention the improved play, you pull out, "We lost to a historically worse Penn State program at home, this is an embarrassment."

Which is it?

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this team will be okay and be fun again very soon. Bookmark it.

Ok.
Fun again.

Lofty goals and quite the proclamation.

 

[cjbfbp]

Pickett, Funk and Winter were all portal adds. Meaning Shrewsbury has a track record of landing good/great players from the portal. There is no guarantee we are going to be better than anyone.

Who said anything about a "guarantee?" I may have been born in the day but it wasn't yesterday.

Yes, I know about his portal transfers. It should be obvious from my prior post that I researched these players before writing it. Shrewsbury has been PSU's coach for only two years. Whether his transfer recruiting success continues into the indefinite future remains to be seen.

 

[Bad Gopher]

This is an interesting topic of conversation. We're in new territory in college sports as to how to build a roster. Maybe doing it mostly with veteran transfers is the way to go. The Gophers were better last year doing it that way. One can say that this year's youth will yield future dividends, but do we know that? How many will transfer out? Do you really know who can play until they get into college?

 

[Bfan]

Clearly and overwhelmingly the program has a clear and understandable rebuild process underway.

Done as of next season: Paint players and forwards. In fact, more than expected. Evans is one of the top prospects to ever come to Minnesota. Dynamite!

In process: Shooting guard and/or wing. Nobody knows how this will turn out. That's Henley, Carrington, and Christie. Everyone can see clearly the build plan in place. Unknown but the moves clearly are there.

?? PG

Can anyone predict what guard/wing will look like? There is your answer.

 

[bmb5270]

As much as you hate Ben and want him to fail, you make me feel better about the trajectory of our team with this last post.

Would any objective poster here, who watched the game last night, trade our current roster for Shrewsberry's roster?

Penn State has six seniors (five of them are 5th-year seniors that will all be gone next year). Seniors played 85% of the minutes last night for Penn State.

Back to the portal for a new team for Shrews in 2023/2024!

Penn State's best recruit from the 2022 class, Nije, a 4*, was absolutely owned by Payne last night. Give me three more years of that, please!

JOJ is adding another dimension to his game (our 2nd best 3-pt shooter all of a sudden), Henley is looking more comfortable, and Garcia, when healthy, is undoubtedly our best player who could be here for two more years.

I'm not saying Ben hasn't made mistakes and doesn't have work to do (primarily getting a true PG in the portal). I'd wager a healthy sum; we will be significantly better than Penn State next year.

As we learned during the Pitino years, living off the transfer portal is volatile. For every Akeen Springs, there was a Brock Stull, Alihan Demir, and Both Gach.

@GopherWeatherGuy - You talk about how good of a job Shrewsberry has done compared to Ben and how superior he is, and then in other threads, when posters mention the improved play, you pull out, "We lost to a historically worse Penn State program at home, this is an embarrassment."

Which is it?

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this team will be okay and be fun again very soon. Bookmark it.

I love the points you make. Penn State has obviously been much better than the Gophs but probably won’t make the tournament then has to virtually start over next year.

 

[Off-GridTNgopher]

So what exactly do you expect us as fans to do? Should we be protesting out in front of the facility.....good lord.....you act like there is something we can all do to change things.

You've made up your mind on Johnson....good for you....maybe you will be right in the long run. But many of us are willing to let things play out a little longer and see what happens. You'll have to forgive us for being passive and trying to stay optimistic when viewing something we have zero control over. We can't all be warriors like yourself.

Doubt you will find anyone in the fanbase that is happy about the current state of the program. But the reality is that Johnson is in his second year and deserves more time to right the ship. If we are still struggling this much one year from now you will have a lot more people thinking the way you do.

Well if we've learned anything about protests in MN it's that you can burn loot and riot... So maybe we break into Williams arena, loot all the beer, torch the court, etc etc... I'm sure someone here is a felon... We can then put up a big statue praising them for breaking in, robbing the place and torching it to the ground.... idk just a thought... It would induce more political change and we could be the first university with a furry as head coach!!!!

 

[Gophers7633]

Who said anything about a "guarantee?" I may have been born in the day but it wasn't yesterday.

Yes, I know about his portal transfers. It should be obvious from my prior post that I researched these players before writing it. Shrewsbury has been PSU's coach for only two years. Whether his transfer recruiting success continues into the indefinite future remains to be seen.

You said a fair chance, which you're right isn't a guarantee, im just having a hard time believing we'll be better than anyone at this point. The bar has been set so low, that even with much improvement, we still are likely in the basement again.

 

[Ewert86PC]

We have to stop being "realistic" and start having a standard. When Fleck got here a lot of people laughed at his antics but he has raised the bar to where we are disappointed with 9 win seasons.

Ben not having an actual BIG caliber pg is unacceptable. Not even in waiting do we have a viable option.

Ben has to make the tournament next year or he has to go, no question. The expectation here should be tournament every year. Doesn't mean it happens, but if you can't make it in 3, you're out. Set the precedent.

I'm down with this.

I don't see Ben coaching defense for this team. That is our biggest weakness. It is compounded by the fact we don't grab any offensive rebounds. We shoot poorly and misses are automatic turnovers. This gives opponents more scoring opportunities than we get. We don't even recognize we are in this hole. We just stand around dumbstruck when we have to transition from offense to defense.

Ben is even less impressive as a HC than Li'l Ricky was. He gambled on having scorers who were weak defensively and it backfired on him.

 

[MennoSota]

The level of expectation for the 2023-24 season will be contingent upon whether a true point guard is added to the roster this spring.
We have a solid core of forwards and shooting guards, but we have no true floor general who can demand attention with the dribble drive. If we get that piece, then I expect a significant uptick to middle of the pack B1G and a potential invitation to the dance.

 

[Ewert86PC]

We are not all little children crying because we want something. Some are capable of recognizing a good effort and team improvement, which showed tonight.

The thing is that this meager praise is enough to set this team back twice as far.

I don't think you recognize your role in the "one step forward, two steps back" dynamic of rewarding mediocrity.

It is not changing to better situation. There needs to be consistent steps forward and that takes focus and determination. Constant praise of such a desperately needy team serves to set the team back. The team has to keep improving and praise be damned right now.

 

[kix4kix]

Yes, in fact that's only been the case for about a dozen of the 363 or so D1 teams. Some people just don't do the research and so they think it's easy to make the NCAA tournament every year because there are 68 teams in it.

Some people don't know what expectation means