Rand: Teams improve after Brewster leaves

[DMB123]

+10. In addition to what you said, every time Brewster has opened his muppet mouth since he left he has said nothing but positive things about the U and the players and people he got to know while he was here. If some of the posters in GopherHole and the local media had half the class that Brewster does they would be much further ahead in their own lives.

Really? You mean gems like this...
"It's going to be a whole lot easier for me to attract kids to Starkville, Mississippi than it is Minneapolis, Minnesota." - Tim Brewster, August 24th 2012

Brew was certainly more bitter than you guys are remembering after Maturi fired him.

 

[oleboy41]

A lot of people are only so good at what they do. Plenty of people that make really good VPs but would suck as a CEO. I know plenty of great sales reps that would make poor sales managers. Makes no sense to knock someone for someone else giving them a job they really weren't up to. Its the Ryan Collado situation. He was forced to be a starting B10 corner as a true frosh when he was no where near ready and was roasted for being terrible. 3 years later when he'd developed and grown he was a very solid player. Brewster was a career TE coach which honestly is about as low on the totem pole as it can get as a position coach. Being a TE coach in DI still means you're an excellent coach, but it also means he's no where near qualified to be a HC and his failure is less his fault than the people that hired him

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

When I think of Harold Howell one name comes up. Glen Mason. That pretty much sums up the Mason era and how little effort he put into recruiting during his last three years before he got his ass fired for pissing away another in long line of second half leads on national TV and then laughing about it in the locker room after the game. If Mason had done his job, Harold Howell and many of the other players that Brewster was forced to recruit in the three weeks between his hiring date and national signing day would not have gotten anywhere near the U and the Gopher football team.

That's right. People laugh at players like Harold Howell, Fatty Thomas & Kyle Theret, but the sad fact is, that with only three weeks to recruit, they were an upgrade to the black hole of a roster Mason had left Brew to work with.

 

[lakesgopher]

Really? You mean gems like this... "It's going to be a whole lot easier for me to attract kids to Starkville, Mississippi than it is Minneapolis, Minnesota." - Tim Brewster, August 24th 2012 Brew was certainly more bitter than you guys are remembering after Maturi fired him.

I think he proved it was easier to recruit to Starkville than Minneapolis.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

A lot of people are only so good at what they do. Plenty of people that make really good VPs but would suck as a CEO. I know plenty of great sales reps that would make poor sales managers. Makes no sense to knock someone for someone else giving them a job they really weren't up to. Its the Ryan Collado situation. He was forced to be a starting B10 corner as a true frosh when he was no where near ready and was roasted for being terrible. 3 years later when he'd developed and grown he was a very solid player. Brewster was a career TE coach which honestly is about as low on the totem pole as it can get as a position coach. Being a TE coach in DI still means you're an excellent coach, but it also means he's no where near qualified to be a HC and his failure is less his fault than the people that hired him

That's right. Just because he wasn't qualified to be a Head Coach at the B1G level at that time doesn't mean he's a bad coach. He could get a coordinator job under a real Head Coach & learn the ropes, before one day taking another Head Coaching job. That said, he's kind of old to get started on that path & seems perfectly suited to what he's doing now. The dude can recruit & he seems to love recruiting more than anything else. He's in a great spot at FSU.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

Really? You mean gems like this...
"It's going to be a whole lot easier for me to attract kids to Starkville, Mississippi than it is Minneapolis, Minnesota." - Tim Brewster, August 24th 2012

Brew was certainly more bitter than you guys are remembering after Maturi fired him.

That's your best shot? Any coach in the country would admit that's true.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

When I think of Harold Howell one name comes up. Glen Mason. That pretty much sums up the Mason era and how little effort he put into recruiting during his last three years before he got his ass fired for pissing away another in long line of second half leads on national TV and then laughing about it in the locker room after the game. If Mason had done his job, Harold Howell and many of the other players that Brewster was forced to recruit in the three weeks between his hiring date and national signing day would not have gotten anywhere near the U and the Gopher football team.

The dumpster fire had been going on before Brew got here. Mason had been mailing it in & had failed to recruit for several cycles in a row, which left Brew with less depth & less talent than Kill inherited. Mason's defenses were generally an after thought & his last year was his worst defense yet. The trend was not getting better, but worse. That meant Mason had to scramble to sign an unprecedented 7 Jucos, 5 of which were counted on to start immediately the following season on defense. When Mason got fired all those Jucos except Logan Uu bailed on us. Brew had less than three weeks to sign a recruiting class. If you're going to rip on Brew for guys not going to class, not belonging in the B1G etc. You have to apply that fairly to Mason as well right? Mason's star, Gary Russell had flunked out & the staff had known he wasn't attending classes the entire time. Then, with no Jucos to fill the gaps, no time to recruit, no talent & no depth, we lost DJ, Massey, Daniels & Henderson (? The RB from Missouri?) to the sex scandal. Those were all Mason recruits. That was 3 more expected starters. Then we lost DE Robert McField who was wanted in Missouri for armed robbery of convenience stores, which slipped past Mason's staff since they never bothered to do a standard background check on him. People laughed at Brew for starting players like Fatty Thomas & Kyle Theret, but those guys were upgrades as true Freshmen over the upperclassmen Mason had left Brew with. I'm not saying Brew didn't make mistakes but it's a fallacy to portray Brew as the guy who dragged our program down. He was hired because our program was crumbling under Mason, who simply didn't care anymore.

 

[DMB123]

That's your best shot? Any coach in the country would admit that's true.

Any coach would admit that? I don't agree with that at all. And that quote from Brewster is filled with pettines and bitterness.

 

[DMB123]

The dumpster fire had been going on before Brew got here. Mason had been mailing it in & had failed to recruit for several cycles in a row, which left Brew with less depth & less talent than Kill inherited. Mason's defenses were generally an after thought & his last year was his worst defense yet. The trend was not getting better, but worse. That meant Mason had to scramble to sign an unprecedented 7 Jucos, 5 of which were counted on to start immediately the following season on defense. When Mason got fired all those Jucos except Logan Uu bailed on us. Brew had less than three weeks to sign a recruiting class. If you're going to rip on Brew for guys not going to class, not belonging in the B1G etc. You have to apply that fairly to Mason as well right? Mason's star, Gary Russell had flunked out & the staff had known he wasn't attending classes the entire time. Then, with no Jucos to fill the gaps, no time to recruit, no talent & no depth, we lost DJ, Massey, Daniels & Henderson (? The RB from Missouri?) to the sex scandal. Those were all Mason recruits. That was 3 more expected starters. Then we lost DE Robert McField who was wanted in Missouri for armed robbery of convenience stores, which slipped past Mason's staff since they never bothered to do a standard background check on him. People laughed at Brew for starting players like Fatty Thomas & Kyle Theret, but those guys were upgrades as true Freshmen over the upperclassmen Mason had left Brew with. I'm not saying Brew didn't make mistakes but it's a fallacy to portray Brew as the guy who dragged our program down. He was hired because our program was crumbling under Mason, who simply didn't care anymore.

Seriously? It's true that 2007 may have been a rebuilding year under Mason. But to suggest that Brewster didn't leave the program in FAR WORSE shape than he inherited is beyond absurd. It's hard to believe any Gopher fan would make the statement you just made.

 

[Dr.Don]

Like I said earlier. Brewster is 4 years gone. Kill is here now. If you want to discuss the past, good luck doing anything about it.

 

[DMB123]

Like I said earlier. Brewster is 4 years gone. Kill is here now. If you want to discuss the past, good luck doing anything about it.

To you and the rest of the "The past is in the past, let's move on" crowd, we're simply discussing a recent article written about our former head coach of just 4 years ago. It's not anything to get so serious about. That's what these message boards are for. Relax please, or just don't click on the thread.

 

[DMB123]

You're right. Coaches get fired midway thru their 4th season for improving the program. I have no hatred for Brewster at all. But the program that he took over was in much better shape than the one he left.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

Any coach would admit that? I don't agree with that at all. And that quote from Brewster is filled with pettines and bitterness.

Wrong & wrong. No coach in the country would dispute that recruiting in the heart of SEC country is easier than trying to get the players all the up to Minnesota. It's self evident. The quote was absolutely filled with pettiness & bitterness? No, it's simply a matter of fact. That this is the one & only example you can provide as evidence speaks loudly as to how weak your claim is.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

Seriously? It's true that 2007 may have been a rebuilding year under Mason. But to suggest that Brewster didn't leave the program in FAR WORSE shape than he inherited is beyond absurd. It's hard to believe any Gopher fan would make the statement you just made.

A rebuilding YEAR? Mason had failed to recruit over several cycles. There was no help on the way for 2008 or 2009. Gone were the days of Maroney/Barber/Eslinger/Setterstrom. Brew got the talent level back up due to his tireless recruiting, something Mason could/would not have done.

Talent & depth-wise Brewster left the program in better shape than when when he found it. I don't think that's even disputable if you go back & compare the two rosters. Academically, I agree it was a mess.

 

[DMB123]

A rebuilding YEAR? Mason had failed to recruit over several cycles. There was no help on the way for 2008 or 2009. Gone were the days of Maroney/Barber/Eslinger/Setterstrom. Brew got the talent level back up due to his tireless recruiting, something Mason could/would not have done.

Talent & depth-wise Brewster left the program in better shape than when when he found it. I don't think that's even disputable if you go back & compare the two rosters. Academically, I agree it was a mess.

I'm speechless. Jerry Kill would laugh at that comment. Ask him how much talent and depth he inherited. You need to give this argument up.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

I'm speechless. Jerry Kill would laugh at that comment. Ask him how much talent and depth he inherited. You need to give this argument up.

You're changing the argument now. It's not whether or not Kill thought he inherited good talent & depth. That's just a new spin you added on this post. The point is whether the talent/depth was better than what Brew received from Mason?

Mason = Desi Steib, Duran Love, John Shevlin, Mike Sherels, Barret Moen, William Brody, Kevin Mannion, Michael McKelton, Matt Stommes? These were the guys Brew inherited. I didn't cherry-pick the worst players either. These are what Brew was left to work with. There were really only 2-3 legitimate B1G players that were mature & ready to start on the defensive side of the ball. WVS, Dom Barber & arguably Steve Davis. There were also very few younger guys that would ever become decent players. Nate Triplett, Lee Campbell & Garret Brown is about it.

Brew = Gary Tinsley (Jr), Troy Stoudermire (Jr), Kim Royston (Sr), Brandon Kirksey (Jr), Anthony Jacobs (Jr), Jewahn Edwards (Jr), Keenon Cooper (So), Ryan Collado (Sr), Michael Carter (So). That alone is 9 players who were plug 'n' play guys talent-wse. There were also a bunch of quality players coming up the pike in DL Wilhite, Brock Vereen, Mike Rallis, James Manual, Aaron Hill, Rashede Hageman & Cameron Botticelli.

I don't see how you can debate the train wreck that Brew was left with talent-wise? He CLEARLY left Kill more to work with. Understand I'm not saying Brew did a great job. I'm also not saying he left Kill in a perfect situation, but the idea that Brew ruined a good team & Kill started with no talent is simply false.

 

[beatles]

You're changing the argument now. It's not whether or not Kill thought he inherited good talent & depth. That's just a new spin you added on this post. The point is whether the talent/depth was better than what Brew received from Mason?

Mason = Desi Steib, Duran Love, John Shevlin, Mike Sherels, Barret Moen, William Brody, Kevin Mannion, Michael McKelton, Matt Stommes? These were the guys Brew inherited. I didn't cherry-pick the worst players either. These are what Brew was left to work with. There were really only 2-3 legitimate B1G players that were mature & ready to start on the defensive side of the ball. WVS, Dom Barber & arguably Steve Davis. There were also very few younger guys that would ever become decent players. Nate Triplett, Lee Campbell & Garret Brown is about it.

Brew = Gary Tinsley (Jr), Troy Stoudermire (Jr), Kim Royston (Sr), Brandon Kirksey (Jr), Anthony Jacobs (Jr), Jewahn Edwards (Jr), Keenon Cooper (So), Ryan Collado (Sr), Michael Carter (So). That alone is 9 players who were plug 'n' play guys talent-wse. There were also a bunch of quality players coming up the pike in DL Wilhite, Brock Vereen, Mike Rallis, James Manual, Aaron Hill, Rashede Hageman & Cameron Botticelli.

I don't see how you can debate the train wreck that Brew was left with talent-wise? He CLEARLY left Kill more to work with. Understand I'm not saying Brew did a great job. I'm also not saying he left Kill in a perfect situation, but the idea that Brew ruined a good team & Kill started with no talent is simply false.

You have to be deaf, blind, and stupid to think Brewster left the program in better shape than what he inherited.

 

[golden boy]

Would anyone be surprised by the equally correct thread title for this "Sports editor at Jim Souhan's paper used incredible logical fallacy to keep with familiar narrative"?

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

You have to be deaf, blind, and stupid to think Brewster left the program in better shape than what he inherited.

You speak in generalities. Please list specifics. Lay out the 2 deeps from 2007, minus the Brewster recruits, vs the 2 deeps from 2010. Side by side comparison.

 

[UpnorthGo4]

You're right. Coaches get fired midway thru their 4th season for improving the program. I have no hatred for Brewster at all. But the program that he took over was in much better shape than the one he left.

Brewster was fired because the Gophers were not winning football games. Not because he wasn't recruiting good players. Mason left Brewster with a defense that was one of the worst in the country in 2006 (ranked 113 out of 119) and an offense dominated by red shirt and true freshman players. Brewster had three weeks to put together a coaching staff and recruiting class before national signing day in February, 2007.

Gopher's starting line-up against Michigan at The Big House in 2007 - Brewster's First Year

Pos ## Offense

WR 1 Wheelwright, E. - Senior
WR 7 Decker, Eric - Sophmore
LT 64 Shidell, Steve - Senior
LG 52 Tow-Arnett,Jeff - Sophmore
C 77 Brinkhaus, Tony - Senior
QB 8 Weber, Adam - RS Freshman
LG 53 Burris, D.J. - RS Freshman
RT 76 Alford, Dominic - RS Freshman
WR 81 Spry, Ralph - True Freshman
WR 6 Herndon, Tray - True Freshman
RB 22 Bennett, Duane - True Freshman

Pos ## Defense

LE Henderson, Ray - Sophmore
LT Allen, Neel - Senior
RT Meisel, Todd - Senior
RE Campbell, Lee - Sophmore
SLB Davis, Steve - Junior
MLB Hightower, Deon - Junior
WLB Mannion, Kevin - Junior
SS Barber, Dom - Senior
CB Theret, Kyle - True Freshman
CB Collado, Ryan - True Freshman
FS Thomas, Curtis - True Freshman

 

[UpnorthGo4]

I'm speechless. Jerry Kill would laugh at that comment. Ask him how much talent and depth he inherited. You need to give this argument up.

It is not surprising how often posters disappear when they are presented with facts that challenge their uninformed opinions.