Question on BT teams making NCAA tourney

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If conference doesn't matter, then why have a conference? Let's just go with RPI and throw out all conferences in basketball. The top 68 RPI get in and everyone else goes home.

Perhaps landing 9th in the B1G won't matter to the selection committee. Perhaps Minnesota playing like a bottom dweller means nothing in the selection. But, in my opinion, it should. And, I wouldn't cry even one tear if Iowa made the tourney and the Gophers missed out. The Gophers simply don't have a solid case for why they should get in. The best teams in conferences should be given the nod over a team that landed in the bottom third of the conference. Conference placement should matter. If Minnesota gets in it is only because a flawed system lets them in, not because they are deserving of getting in. The Gophers "body" of work isn't great enough to be a shoe-in for the tourney, in my opinion.
 

The Gophers "body" of work isn't great enough to be a shoe-in for the tourney, in my opinion.
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And like I said, I don't think you pay ANY attention to what goes on outside of the Big Ten.

And its NOT a flawed system tinyarch.

The NCAA wants to reward teams that challenge themselves and schedule tough ooc scedules.

And it does NOT want to reward COWARDLY CREAMPUFF scheduling pussies like Iowa.



Dude, I'll put up Minnesota's Resume up against ANY TEAM IN THE NATION not ranked in the Top 25.


I challenge you to find me more than one single fluke of a team not getting their due, that has the better resume than Minnesota. Go on, try and find more than one.
 

If conference doesn't matter, then why have a conference? Let's just go with RPI and throw out all conferences in basketball. The top 68 RPI get in and everyone else goes home.
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OK, lets make RIDICULOUS statements to try to make a point that can not be made.


You just don't seem to have a clue about whats going on in cbb as a whole tinyarch.





Perhaps Minnesota playing like a bottom dweller means nothing in the selection. But, in my opinion, it should.
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And we are NOT playing like a bottom dweller. We are playing like a middle of the pack team in the toughest and deepest conference in all of college basketball, BAR NONE!!!
 

Anyone thinking the Gophers won't be in, or will be a 12 seed don't know what they are talking about.
Most brackets have Gophers as an 9 or 10 right now. The worst they are is an 11, and if you compare resumes, it's simply ridiculous.


Which is better?

3-6 against Top 50
Top Wins against #8, #23, #47, #62, #62 (Total 206)
Next five best wins against 72, 96, 97, 98, 113 (Total 476)

and Worst 5 Losses to #229, 113, 82, 63, 47
Total of worst 5 losses = 534 (Avg 106.8)

Or

5-7 vs Top 50
Wins vs #5, #6, #16, #42, #43 (Total 114)
Next five best wins against 64, 74, 76, 77, 80, 85 (Total 456)

And worst 5 losses to #166, 106, 103, 74, 43
Total of worst losses = 492 (Avg 98.4)
 

We just lost to Nebraska and Purdue. How close to the bottom do you need? How a team is playing in March should matter. A team that lands in the bottom third of their conference, no matter what conference they play in, should be suspect and be questioned as to why they get a tourney bid over teams that were better in the same conference. Conference play should matter.
 


tinyarch said:
We just lost to Nebraska and Purdue. How close to the bottom do you need? How a team is playing in March should matter. A team that lands in the bottom third of their conference, no matter what conference they play in, should be suspect and be questioned as to why they get a tourney bid over teams that were better in the same conference. Conference play should matter.
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Are you suggesting that conference play is the only thing that gets a team into the tourney?
 

lakesgopher said:
Are you suggesting that conference play is the only thing that gets a team into the tourney?
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No, but it should have greater weight. It certainly has a lot of weight in the mid-major conferences if those teams hope to get an at-large bid (if they fail to win their tournament).

We just landed in the bottom third of our conference. That is, in my opinion, a black mark on our bid for an at large invitation. People can bring up the RPI all they wish, but when a team lands that far back in the conference it should give the selection committee pause to evaluate whether the team should be offered an invitation.

That being said, I think the RPI plays a better factor in helping if the Gophers figure out how to win their first game in the B1G tourney. If they don't win this first B1G tourney game, then I, personally, won't be shocked or upset if the selection committee tells the Gophers to enjoy an NIT tournament instead. I also won't think we've been slighted if Iowa gets in and we are left off. Iowa nearly beat us at home and blew us out at Iowa City. I just don't think we have any bargaining chips to play. If we get in, great, but if we don't get in then it's completely our fault and not the selection committee's fault.
 

tinyarch said:
No, but it should have greater weight. It certainly has a lot of weight in the mid-major conferences if those teams hope to get an at-large bid (if they fail to win their tournament).

We just landed in the bottom third of our conference. That is, in my opinion, a black mark on our bid for an at large invitation. People can bring up the RPI all they wish, but when a team lands that far back in the conference it should give the selection committee pause to evaluate whether the team should be offered an invitation.

That being said, I think the RPI plays a better factor in helping if the Gophers figure out how to win their first game in the B1G tourney. If they don't win this first B1G tourney game, then I, personally, won't be shocked or upset if the selection committee tells the Gophers to enjoy an NIT tournament instead. I also won't think we've been slighted if Iowa gets in and we are left off. Iowa nearly beat us at home and blew us out at Iowa City. I just don't think we have any bargaining chips to play. If we get in, great, but if we don't get in then it's completely our fault and not the selection committee's fault.
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I think you're so bitter towards tubby you have decided to use the the last 1/3 of the season to make your mind up instead of looking at the entire body of work. Has this season been a disappointment? Kind of, we were picked to be somewhere around 6th by most of the talking heads and we fell beyond that. Is any gopher fan happy, of course not. But I believe we get into the tourney based on our entire season and that means we live to fight another day. If we don't, I won't be pissed off repeated the same "tubby has to go" rhetoric, I have better things to do. So with that said continue with your pissing match about firing or not firing, tourney or no tourney. I'm going to have fun cheering for the gophers win or lose. I'm proud of them even if guys like you want to say they all suck, etc.

Continue...
 

lakesgopher said:
I think you're so bitter towards tubby you have decided to use the the last 1/3 of the season to make your mind up instead of looking at the entire body of work. Has this season been a disappointment? Kind of, we were picked to be somewhere around 6th by most of the talking heads and we fell beyond that. Is any gopher fan happy, of course not. But I believe we get into the tourney based on our entire season and that means we live to fight another day. If we don't, I won't be pissed off repeated the same "tubby has to go" rhetoric, I have better things to do. So with that said continue with your pissing match about firing or not firing, tourney or no tourney. I'm going to have fun cheering for the gophers win or lose. I'm proud of them even if guys like you want to say they all suck, etc.

Continue...
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It doesn't matter who was the coach, nor would it matter if it weren't the Gophers I was rooting for. The issue is that we landed in the bottom third of the conference. There is no good argument for inviting the #9 team in a conference to the tournament.

I have not said one thing about Tubby in this entire thread. In fact, you'll be hard pressed to find me saying something about Tubby in the last week. I haven't needed to. The entire GH has blown up about Tubby. I almost feel bad for the guy at this point. Almost...

This thread is strictly about whether the Gophers should get in before Iowa. From a conference perspective the argument is no, the Gophers shouldn't get in before Iowa. The Gophers overall record and standing is below Iowa in the conference. I'm simply stating that I would not shed a tear if the Gophers were left out and Iowa was invited. We just haven't performed well enough in the conference to merit any argument in our favor.
 



tinyarch said:
It doesn't matter who was the coach, nor would it matter if it weren't the Gophers I was rooting for. The issue is that we landed in the bottom third of the conference. There is no good argument for inviting the #9 team in a conference to the tournament.

I have not said one thing about Tubby in this entire thread. In fact, you'll be hard pressed to find me saying something about Tubby in the last week. I haven't needed to. The entire GH has blown up about Tubby. I almost feel bad for the guy at this point. Almost...

This thread is strictly about whether the Gophers should get in before Iowa. From a conference perspective the argument is no, the Gophers shouldn't get in before Iowa. The Gophers overall record and standing is below Iowa in the conference. I'm simply stating that I would not shed a tear if the Gophers were left out and Iowa was invited. We just haven't performed well enough in the conference to merit any argument in our favor.
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You have a track record. I'm more upset about a team like liberty playing in the tourney compared to the gophers.
 

tinyarch simply doesn't have a clue what he is talking about.


Who cares what his opinion is, his opinion is one of the very few in the entire nation that feels the way he does.

He apparently has NO CLUE whats going on in the rest of the country.


He can have whatever opinion he wants, but its FOOLISH to parade that opinion around as if its anything even close to reality.


Simply put, the NCAA Selection Committee thinks WAY DIFFERENTLY than tinyarch does.

THANK THE HEAVENS!!!!!!!!
 

Perhaps Debat, but at least I can write a paragraph without all caps! That's gotta be good for something with the GH posters. You should realize by now that very few people take your opinions too seriously.
 

tinyarch said:
It doesn't matter who was the coach, nor would it matter if it weren't the Gophers I was rooting for. The issue is that we landed in the bottom third of the conference. There is no good argument for inviting the #9 team in a conference to the tournament.

I have not said one thing about Tubby in this entire thread. In fact, you'll be hard pressed to find me saying something about Tubby in the last week. I haven't needed to. The entire GH has blown up about Tubby. I almost feel bad for the guy at this point. Almost...

This thread is strictly about whether the Gophers should get in before Iowa. From a conference perspective the argument is no, the Gophers shouldn't get in before Iowa. The Gophers overall record and standing is below Iowa in the conference. I'm simply stating that I would not shed a tear if the Gophers were left out and Iowa was invited. We just haven't performed well enough in the conference to merit any argument in our favor.
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You're basically railing against the criteria that the selection committee uses and saying you think it's wrong. OK. But you're making that argument to make your own team look worse. Why?

The 6-9 teams are all within one game. What order they're seeded for in the BTT is of little relevance. Even though they're #8 and #9, Illinois and Minnesota have vastly superior resumes to Purdue and Iowa. Period. Not even close.
 



Perhaps Debat, but at least I can write a paragraph without all caps! That's gotta be good for something with the GH posters. You should realize by now that very few people take your opinions too seriously.
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LOL, I didn't know I was running for President, or applying for a job, or seeking new friends?!


I can write a paragraph without any caps, or spacing or substance, if I want to. But that's not how I choose to write.


And you seem to think that what? People here take your opinion "seriously"???


Really?!


I've had several posters give me some really rave reviews of some of my posts. Which is nice, sure, but honestly, that has never, and never will be why I come here or post my opinions.

And yes, I've had 3 times as many tell me that they absolutely hate everything about me and my posts. lol


Most of those are Tubby HATERS. So what?! Why on earth would I care what they think of me?! I'd rather have Flip than Tubby any day of the week, I just don't like people making sh1t up about Tubby to try to make him look worse than he is, when there is no need to do that, he looks pretty bad without the made up sh1t.


And as for how people here perceive me? How does that affect me in the real world tinyarch?!


I have an actual real life apart from this place. About once every 5-7 years I get a winter off with nothing to do but watch sports, movies and surf the internet. This is one of those winters. So here I am.
 


You lost me at LOL.
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Whatever tinyarch, I don't really care. You are set on your minority opinion so what could reason or the truth do to change your mind? Probably nothing, so fine, don't read mine or any of the other dozen or so posts all that disagree with you. My opinion is in the majority here. Partly because its the truth. Something I don't know if you have much of an ability to recognize?
 


#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat said:
LOL, I didn't know I was running for President, or applying for a job, or seeking new friends?!


I can write a paragraph without any caps, or spacing or substance, if I want to. But that's not how I choose to write.


And you seem to think that what? People here take your opinion "seriously"???


Really?!


I've had several posters give me some really rave reviews of some of my posts. Which is nice, sure, but honestly, that has never, and never will be why I come here or post my opinions.

And yes, I've had 3 times as many tell me that they absolutely hate everything about me and my posts. lol


Most of those are Tubby HATERS. So what?! Why on earth would I care what they think of me?! I'd rather have Flip than Tubby any day of the week, I just don't like people making sh1t up about Tubby to try to make him look worse than he is, when there is no need to do that, he looks pretty bad without the made up sh1t.


And as for how people here perceive me? How does that affect me in the real world tinyarch?!


I have an actual real life apart from this place. About once every 5-7 years I get a winter off with nothing to do but watch sports, movies and surf the internet. This is one of those winters. So here I am.
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Please.


Format.


Your.


Posts.









Differently.














LOL.
 

tinyarch said:
If conference doesn't matter, then why have a conference? Let's just go with RPI and throw out all conferences in basketball. The top 68 RPI get in and everyone else goes home.
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The conference matters for achievements within the conference, such as conference standings and the conference title. But conference record should not have additional weight in a team's tournament resume. By the way, we are not 9th in the Big Ten, we are tied for 7th and have 5 more overall wins than Purdue does, and we are half a game behind Illinois, so I would say we are closer to the top of that tie than the bottom.

If you were to weight conference record heavier than non-conference record, then you would be giving teams better or worse seedings based on what conference they were in, and I don't mean that as in based on how strong their conference is, but simply based on which conference they are a member of.

Should our home loss to Michigan hurt us more than Bradley's home loss to Michigan? Should our road loss to Ohio State hurt us more than Long Beach State's road loss to Ohio State, just because Minnesota and Ohio State are both members of the Big Ten?

For example, if the Gophers were in a conference with Toledo, North Dakota State, Stanford, Florida State etc. and Nebraska, Illinois, Michigan State etc. were just schools we scheduled to play out of conference, that would give us a conference record of 12-1, and a non-conference record of 8-10. If you were to place more emphasis on conference record, that means you would be giving Minnesota a better seed because the teams they played well against are in their conference, versus where you would seed them now based on the actual current conference alignment.

Another example, let's say we play 30 total games against teams that are all equally good, 15 of them are non-conference games, and 15 are conference games. If we went 5-10 out of conference, and 10-5 in conference for 15-15 overall, that means you would give us a worse seed if we went 10-5 out of conference, but 5-10 in conference, despite the fact that, because all the teams we played are of equal skill level, they have identical resumes. At that point you are basing seeding off of conference alignment of our opponents, instead of directly off of how well we did against the teams we played.

Also as others have mentioned, Iowa is nearly 50 spots lower in the RPI than Minnesota is.

Minnesota is 5-7 against the top 50, Iowa is 4-8.
Minnesota is 6-1 against 51-100, Iowa is 1-0
Minnesota has played 7 games against teams with an RPI of 151+, Iowa has played 14
Minnesota has played 2 games against teams with an RPI of 200+, Iowa has played 7
Minnesota has a strength of schedule of 2, Iowa has a strength of schedule of 98.

They are both 20-11 overall, pretty much Iowa's only advantage over Minnesota is that one extra conference win. It would be ridiculous to take Iowa over Minnesota.
 

Tinyarch is doing some solid trolling in this thread. Gophers are in. Next topic.
 

Cayman said:
The conference matters for achievements within the conference, such as conference standings and the conference title. But conference record should not have additional weight in a team's tournament resume. By the way, we are not 9th in the Big Ten, we are tied for 7th and have 5 more overall wins than Purdue does, and we are half a game behind Illinois, so I would say we are closer to the top of that tie than the bottom.

If you were to weight conference record heavier than non-conference record, then you would be giving teams better or worse seedings based on what conference they were in, and I don't mean that as in based on how strong their conference is, but simply based on which conference they are a member of.
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The selection committee does this. The conference you play in matters for being selected as an at-large team and it matters for seeding. If a team is in the B1G or the ACC or the Big East, they stand a much greater chance of being selected as an at-large choice than someone from the Atlantic 10 or the WAC or MVC.

We are seeded 9th in the B1G tournament. No matter how you want to parse it out, we are 9th in the conference. In head-to-head competition we were below Iowa in the standings.

I understand that people want to see the Gophers in the NCAA tournament. If we get in that would be great. I'm just stating that I wouldn't cry about anything if the selection committee told us to enjoy the NIT while they invited Iowa to the tournament. We made our own bed with our lack of consistency in conference play. We have no one to blame for anything that happens other than ourselves. If we get the invite, great. But, our 9th place finish does not bode well for any seed higher than a 12 seed, in my opinion. Our best hope is that we win a game or two in the B1G tournament. If we lose the 1st game, then we are a bubble team and rightfully so.
 

The Gophers should turn down a bid to the NIT

I hope I am wrong, but there is a very good chance if the Gophers lose to Illinois, we will not make the NCAA. This team does not pass the smell test and will not receive a bid. I hope Minnesota turns down the NIT Bid. This team is just like Randy Moss and play when they want to play. They have no respect for their coach and certainly are a
underachieving group. They are arguably one of the most disappointing teams in D1 basketball. I hope if this team is given the "opportunity" to play in the NIT we turn down the invitation and start our program in 2013-2014 with a new coach, new team, and a fresh start for next season...........
 

I put more of it on the coach than the players because it's his program and he gets paid to create an atmosphere of achievement and success. I do agree that the school should turn down an NIT invite if it comes to that.
 

I would not be surprised if we miss out on a bid with a loss vs Illinois. Quite frankly if that were the case it would be deserved. This has been the most disappointing, perplexing, maddening, frustrating, etc., season for me in the past 20+ years following this team. It's been an Epic Fail IMHO.
 

jamiche said:
I put more of it on the coach than the players because it's his program and he gets paid to create an atmosphere of achievement and success. I do agree that the school should turn down an NIT invite if it comes to that.
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So if the Gophers make the tourney and then win a few games (A HUGE IF I KNOW). Will you then credit Tubby or will you just its the players and not Tubby?

And a disclaimer.. I think if we don't make a run, we should part ways with Tubby. However, I am just noticing a lot of "having it both ways" on this board. We lose its Tubby's fault, we win, its the players in spite of Tubby.
 

Rouser said:
So if the Gophers make the tourney and then win a few games (A HUGE IF I KNOW). Will you then credit Tubby or will you just its the players and not Tubby?

And a disclaimer.. I think if we don't make a run, we should part ways with Tubby. However, I am just noticing a lot of "having it both ways" on this board. We lose its Tubby's fault, we win, its the players in spite of Tubby.
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FWIW, I'm already on record as saying Tubby will deserve credit if he can pull this airplane out of the tailspin.
 

fryguy22 said:
Tinyarch is doing some solid trolling in this thread. Gophers are in. Next topic.
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How is he trolling? Trolling is something completely different than what he is doing and I don't even agree with him 100%

He's not 100% wrong though. Standings do matter-just not as much as RPI. How you are playing at the end of the season does matter-just not as much as the entire body of work.

It's called tie-breakers. The committee needs tie-breakers to make the tough decisions at the end. If there is a team right with us at the end of the selection, you better believe that a slumping team is going to pay for that.

I think the Gophers are in even if they lose, but if they don't make it it will be because they are slumping and tanked in the conference. Not that hard to figure out.
 

tikited said:
How is he trolling? Trolling is something completely different than what he is doing and I don't even agree with him 100%

He's not 100% wrong though. Standings do matter-just not as much as RPI. How you are playing at the end of the season does matter-just not as much as the entire body of work.

It's called tie-breakers. The committee needs tie-breakers to make the tough decisions at the end. If there is a team right with us at the end of the selection, you better believe that a slumping team is going to pay for that.

I think the Gophers are in even if they lose, but if they don't make it it will be because they are slumping and tanked in the conference. Not that hard to figure out.
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Okay fine, let me amend my statement. Tiny is either trolling, very confused / misinformed about the actual Selection Process, or ignorant of just how weak the bubble is this year. Read SS's latest (someone who knows much more than any of us about the selection process). Our body of work has us very comfortably in the field. I am just as disappointed / frustrated with this season as anyone, but to say we are NIT bound even with a loss is laughable.
 

fryguy22 said:
Okay fine, let me amend my statement. Tiny is either trolling, very confused / misinformed about the actual Selection Process, or ignorant of just how weak the bubble is this year. Read SS's latest (someone who knows much more than any of us about the selection process). Our body of work has us very comfortably in the field. I am just as disappointed / frustrated with this season as anyone, but to say we are NIT bound even with a loss is laughable.
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I hope you're right, but I won't bank on your confidence.
 

Cayman said:
The conference matters for achievements within the conference, such as conference standings and the conference title. But conference record should not have additional weight in a team's tournament resume. By the way, we are not 9th in the Big Ten, we are tied for 7th and have 5 more overall wins than Purdue does, and we are half a game behind Illinois, so I would say we are closer to the top of that tie than the bottom.

If you were to weight conference record heavier than non-conference record, then you would be giving teams better or worse seedings based on what conference they were in, and I don't mean that as in based on how strong their conference is, but simply based on which conference they are a member of.

Should our home loss to Michigan hurt us more than Bradley's home loss to Michigan? Should our road loss to Ohio State hurt us more than Long Beach State's road loss to Ohio State, just because Minnesota and Ohio State are both members of the Big Ten?

For example, if the Gophers were in a conference with Toledo, North Dakota State, Stanford, Florida State etc. and Nebraska, Illinois, Michigan State etc. were just schools we scheduled to play out of conference, that would give us a conference record of 12-1, and a non-conference record of 8-10. If you were to place more emphasis on conference record, that means you would be giving Minnesota a better seed because the teams they played well against are in their conference, versus where you would seed them now based on the actual current conference alignment.

Another example, let's say we play 30 total games against teams that are all equally good, 15 of them are non-conference games, and 15 are conference games. If we went 5-10 out of conference, and 10-5 in conference for 15-15 overall, that means you would give us a worse seed if we went 10-5 out of conference, but 5-10 in conference, despite the fact that, because all the teams we played are of equal skill level, they have identical resumes. At that point you are basing seeding off of conference alignment of our opponents, instead of directly off of how well we did against the teams we played.

Also as others have mentioned, Iowa is nearly 50 spots lower in the RPI than Minnesota is.

Minnesota is 5-7 against the top 50, Iowa is 4-8.
Minnesota is 6-1 against 51-100, Iowa is 1-0
Minnesota has played 7 games against teams with an RPI of 151+, Iowa has played 14
Minnesota has played 2 games against teams with an RPI of 200+, Iowa has played 7
Minnesota has a strength of schedule of 2, Iowa has a strength of schedule of 98.

They are both 20-11 overall, pretty much Iowa's only advantage over Minnesota is that one extra conference win. It would be ridiculous to take Iowa over Minnesota.
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boom!

nice post
 

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