Question for the Board...

This board seriously has to find a way to get past Mason.


Having people register simply to take thinly-veiled shots at Brewster, which they know only turns the conversation to Mason, doesn't help your cause.

Neither does the return of Loon...or GopherHeat...or Goldy74s...or whatever that sad, sad man wants to go by nowadays.
 

Not taking shots - just calling them like I see them. Our AD is so enamored with Brew that he has taken the extension off the table and restricted the coordinator hires to 1-year deals. Guess he is about as confident as I am.
 

Although your views are noted TT, you may or may not be aware that your exact same views have been repeated in GopherHole thousands of times over the last two years. You may think that you have some special expertise and insight about what is going on with Gopher football, but let me assure you that more knowledgeable posters than you have come and gone with the same agenda as yours. Although you will probably be spouting your tripe seven days a week for the next few months, it should come as no surprise to you that you will not change anyone's opinions about Brewster or Maturi. Sure you will piss off some Holers at first, but in short order they will stop reading any threads where you post. Depending on how big of an a$$ you make out of yourself, eventually you will either be banned or get bored and just go away. We have seen this scenario played out many times since Brewster was hired. Enjoy your remaining time in GopherHole.
 

I am having a very difficult time understanding the enthusiasm that some people here have for Coach Brewster and what he's done during his time here. I'd like to hear what exactly it is that have people thinking we are on the right path. I'm asking this seriously as I'm obviously not picking up what others are putting down...

For full and fair disclosure, I was not a fan of the coaching decisions made a couple of years ago - neither the dismissal of Mason nor the selection of Brewster.


You're right. We should go back to the Mason days of expecting nothing and be happy with our bevy of Mid-American two and three star recruits, our mediocre bowl bids every year, our feast of uninspiring non-conference games, our proud coach who never found a lead he couldn't let slip away and our resignation that we'll never finish better than sixth place. Sounds great, lets rehire him...:rolleyes:
 

MRJ, for the record, what do you think we will have next year? Just for the record.
 


Up North,

I believe this is a discussion board. Sorry that I don't share the exact same sentiments as you. If that was the case life would be pretty boring. You have your points, I have mine. Not trying to win anyone over - simply making points and offering my insight. In terms of my information - trust me I don't try to rank at the top of that class or one up anyone, but I will bring things to the table that I hear as I am connected to the program.

Sorry your Sunday is going so badly and I hope you have a good upcoming week.
 

Not taking shots - just calling them like I see them. Our AD is so enamored with Brew that he has taken the extension off the table and restricted the coordinator hires to 1-year deals. Guess he is about as confident as I am.

FYI, they just signed Fisch to a two year deal.
 


He can be let go after one with no buyout.

Do you have a source for that? The only thing I have seen is that it is a two year contract paying $200,000 in year one and $325,000 in year two. If he makes it to March 1, 2010 he gets another $125,000. http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/38019364.html?elr=KArksi8cyaiUjc8LDyiUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aULPQL7PQLanchO7DiU

I believe if he is fired before March 1, 2010 the $125,000 disappears. This is similar to how Brewsters contract is structured. He gets $800,000 a year with $200,000 per year deferred to the year five.
 



To those of you still infatuated with Mason.

First of all, as a longtime Gopher fan I appreciate his helping to bring us to a level such that on most Saturdays I thought we had a chance. I also enjoyed the running game - it was a lot of fun watching us roll up yards (though we rarely could get those yards in the 2nd half, when needed, against top teams). I also enjoyed watching the talent many of you often reference - Maroney, Barber, Spaeth, Eslinger, Ben Hamilton (though I don't think Mason recruited him), etc.

Here's the problem: most of us can name from memory those players you consistently reference who were great players who succeeded beyond their "recruiting stars" - over ten years!!! If you look at the number of players Mason put in the NFL over his ten years (as of Fall 2007) he had only developed more talent than two other Big Ten programs - Indiana and Northwestern. So, he really didn't bring in or develop talent to the level that is going to have us competing for a Big Ten championship, even every 4-5 years.

Many of you also like to state that he did more with less. If so, why did Northwestern go to Rose Bowls with less talent - on paper through recruiting and in the NFL?

I don't know if Brewster will be successful or not. Like Schnoodler said, I thought I was one of the last supporters of Mason, but ultimately had to see a change following that last year. I had lost hope and wanted more than being average (I'd seen enough of that after ten years with Mason, and felt like we were right were we'd been before with Stoll and Gutey, both of whom would have gone to bowls on a regular basis such as Mason should they have coached in the current bowl environment and non-conference schedule as Mason).

Brewster has hope and big goals - a leader needs both of these. It will take time to see if he can realize that hope and goals, but I am enthused by the quality of talent he is bringing in so far. Again, we'll see....

Quit being so bitter and enjoy the ride. If you could support Mason all those years, you'd think you could give Brewster more than two years. Remember, he did not fire Mason. He only replaced him.
 

To me it is that now it is possible and justifiable to be optimistic, which is something new to gopher fans!
 

tt, were strong or kiffin head coaches??? When the Raiders hired kiffin he had not been a HC. Neither has strong. So you don't like our shot in the dark, but a different shot would have been ok. Give the guy his 4-5 yrs. then we will know if he can build a pgm or not.
 

My enthusiasm, besides the obvious increase in overall talent on the team, is that we have a coach that is no longer resigned to mediocrity and actually strives to contend with the powerhouses of college football. Sure, under mason we knew what to expect, 7 wins with the occasional good season run and no defense to speak of, but that simply is not good enough for Brewster. He WANTS and BELIEVES that we can win national championships here, and for that I am willing to throw my support behind him and give him the time needed to make the changes. We have already seen some of those changes. The increase of talent, a change to a faster paced offense, (a change that I think some people don't understand. They seem to think that you can switch from a power running team to a spread with no dropoff in productivity.) and a more effective defense. Our scheduling is getting more difficult (Cal and USC) and his enthusiasm is infectus. The vibe on campus from students is much much different than it was with Mason. I for one am glad I am on the 5 year plan. My freshman year was Mason's last, and the difference in perception is night and day.
 



Little Big,

The difference is that Kiffin was the OC at USC and Strong the DC at Fla - 2 of the most prominent college football teams of the past 10 years. Brew was never more than a position coach.
 

MRJ, for the record, what do you think we will have next year? Just for the record.

For me, it isn't about next year or even the year after that. It's more about setting the tone for bigger things down the line and getting better on a yearly basis. Mason had completely leveled out after 10 years and anybody that didn't see that needs to look at things a little more closely. There was absolutely no possibility of the program moving forward under Mason.

I'm willing to give Brewster four years to show us that what he's selling will actually work. If it doesn't after that, I'll be in favor of hiring another coach. But to suggest things were just peachy and great while Mason was here is just dead wrong. Brewster is already recruiting at a higher level than Mason ever did. The key for him will be molding that talent into something special over the next two or three years. If he doesn't, then I'll start thinking about the need for a new hire.

But to accept the inherent mediocrity that Mason was willing to accept wasn't where it was at, at least for me. ;)

As for next year, I think it will tough to win five or six games, what with the non-conference schedule having been upgraded significantly and our performance at the end of this year. But again, I'm thinking more along the lines of long term rather than short term. And in that regard, Mason was definitely not the answer.
 

Thanks to all who responded. I'm still not sold. Couple of reasons why. Go ahead and pick away...

1) We are a B10 school. We shouldn't have to provide our coaches with training wheels to do their job. I don't want two more years of learning curve...

2) What is this team's personality. Like him or not, you always knew what Mason's team would do - run the ball, control the clock, and bend but (hopefully) not break on D. I have no idea what Brewster is trying to instill. First it was the spread. Now he says he's about power running. This shift has to affect recruiting and perhaps player retention. Certainly if I was competing with the U for a player, the first thing I'd do is try to plant a seed of doubt by pointing this out.

3) The cupboard was not bare when Brewster came here like it was when Alvarez joined Scony or Zook took over in Illinois. Certainly changing systems and philosophies is difficult, but not to the point where we should have had to suffer through the worst season in the history of a storied program like ours.

4) Some of the in-game decisions have been absolutely horrifying. Two examples from last year include the end-of game coaching against NW and then the polar opposite decisions at the end of the first half versus Scony. A head coach needs to know when his team can make hay and when he needs to pull in the reigns. People who seemingly have the guts to gamble are usually the best at understanding all the variables and knowing when it's actually in their favor to act...

I don't know recruiting. Who knows if last year's, this year's, or next year's classes will pan out. All I look at is game day results. Thus far Brewster-led teams have delivered the worst season in Gopher football history and the worst home shutout loss in Gopher football history. That there were 6 more wins this year versus last year SHOULD be meaningless to all of us. We never should have been 1-11 in the first place. Now the spread experiment has failed and Brewster has surrounded himself with more novices and unproven commodities (Davis not included). If he's still learning his job as a head coach as many of you have said (and suggested is a reason to cut him some slack), how can we rationally expect that he is teaching the other novices...

I've tried to limit my points and to use specific arguments but I'm sure I'll be dubbed a troll again. Again, I apologize for have expectations for the U and of the head coach.

I agree on the "training wheels" part, but that's the extent of my disappointment with Brewster thus far. He wasn't ready for the job, but everything he's done since has shown me a level of humility that far exceeds that of most big-time coaches. Brewster is prepared to say what he "doesn't know." It's going to take him awhile to instill a consistent image of what Gopher football will look like while he's running the ship and I agree 100% with you on that frustration.

But saying the cupboard wasn't bare like it was when Alvarez and Zook took over at their respective schools really isn't saying that much. Mason never ever recruited much depth. We were shuffling guys around all the time and rarely had battle-tested guys ready to take over when someone graduated. Why did Cupito take snap after snap when we were beating the snot out of some cupcake instead of Mortenson getting quality experience? Mason did a good job with the running game, but other than that, he didn't do a whole heckuva lot.

Brewster inherited a junior QB (who I am convinced could have developed if not buried during the Mason years) with limited snaps and a very good red-shirt freshman prospect. I felt bad for Mortenson, but Brewster's decision was kind of a no-brainer in terms of future development. The defense had some decent bodies, but also had a platoon of lead-legged DBs (all of who could outrun me, so I'll admit this is a cheap shot of sorts) who couldn't cover a bed. Add to that the legal problems and the loss of four guys who could have contributed and you've got what we had in 2007.

Mason's defenses not only bent like a troop of Gumbies, they regularly fell apart like an Italian coaltion government.

But the clincher for me was Mason's relationship with high school football in Minnesota. In my work, I run across school superintendents, high school athletic directors, and high school football coaches. Not on a regular basis, but enough to know that I can ask them frank questions. I have yet to hear a positive comment about Mason from any one of them. More often, I hear derision (except I hear from some that Mason gave an excellent motivational presentation that had nothing to do with football, but more about life goals). Mason was greatly disliked by the high school football community in Minnesota and it's no wonder there was a steady exodus of Minnesota's top players to other programs while he was running the show in the Bierman Building.

I'm way old and I realize that this isn't like the old days when a Minnesota HS stud like Jim Carter wouldn't even consider anything but the old homestate team. Kids are different now and you're not going to keep every top prospect. But Mason got so few of the top Minnesota kids that it bordered on ridiculous.

Izaty's, I respect your position and hope I haven't come off as snide. I just believe the Mason regime had run its course. It seems that every time we either came close or even beat OSU or Penn State or Michigan, Mason came off as almost apologizing to John Cooper or Joe Paterno. I had finally had it, not with the Texas Tech collapse, but with the 10-9 win over NDSU in 2006. Mason had sold his teams on "toughness," but it was obvious that day any edge we had in that department was gone. It was clear to me then that Mason had "lost" whatever he once had in terms of promise. The sun set for me that day.

Whether or not Brewster is the right guy remains to be seen. I, too, would like a little less of the Wacker-esque rhetoric, but that's who Brewster seems to be and as long as it's genuine, I don't have that big a problem. So I caution patience. Brewster seems to be coming into his own a bit and if he gains some measure of bearing, I think he is going to be fine.
 

Little Big,

The difference is that Kiffin was the OC at USC and Strong the DC at Fla - 2 of the most prominent college football teams of the past 10 years. Brew was never more than a position coach.


So true, I am amazed that someone can go 17 years in a job as a position coach without every getting a promotion to a coordinator. When I normally hear of someone doing the same job for that length of time I either think of that person as unmotivated or incompetent.
 

It will be interesting to see how Kiffin does at Tennessee. One thing, it will be nice to have dad around. Monte is a stone-cold defensive genius (and has college head-coaching experience). Tennessee is clearly shelling out for top-shelf assistants.

Agree on Strong. One of those guys who is probably a co-ordinator and not a head coach, but in fairness to him, given the record of Bowl Division teams in hiring minorities, we're probably never going to find out if he is head coaching material.
 

If the students or general fans were more excited about this coach, why is attendance so weak in a number of different ways? As a long term fan I was happy to see overall attendance creep up over the Mason years. This was particularly true of student attendance. While significant numbers of our core supporters from the 1960's were moving on the those cheering sections in the sky, overall attendance went up, mainly due to a fairly steady increase in student numbers.

Under Coach Brewster the students are coming later to the games and leaving MUCH earlier. Peak numbers seem to be similar but average numbers seem significantly lower. I have thought adult attendance has been nothing short of ugly. Leaving at half time, lower totals, terrible fourth quarter attendance, etc.

I just do not see with my eyeballs what some of you talk about in regards to "excitement".
 

Having 5 of your 7 home games start at 11:00 am has something to do with attendance, especially students.
 


My contention is that the drop in overall attendance is due to a couple of different factors. First, the students that were around to see our success in 2003 have since graduated and the students that came in after that season have not seen the same type of success to help build the enthusiasm in the program. As a result of this, only the diehard fans go to games. Secondly, I know for a fact that students really have a hard time to get up and get motivated to go to the metrodome for a 11am kickoff. It is not fun. Students have a lot of stuff going on in their lives, especially with the economy the way that it is right now, and want to relax on a saturday and not have to drag themselves out of bed at 9:30 or earlier to take a campus connector to the worst stadium in football. I think that in general, student attendance will increase by a vast margin next year and in the years to come just because we will have a stadium on campus.

Now, on a side note, I think that it is really overplayed to blame the students for a lack of attendance. We are just one demographic of college football fans, and the blame should be put on the non-students just as much as it should be on us, but people seem to forget that. Students are the most fluid group of fans in the stadium on any given saturday, it is unfair to cast blame when there is a lull in attendance.
 

My contention is that the drop in overall attendance is due to a couple of different factors. First, the students that were around to see our success in 2003 have since graduated and the students that came in after that season have not seen the same type of success to help build the enthusiasm in the program. As a result of this, only the diehard fans go to games. Secondly, I know for a fact that students really have a hard time to get up and get motivated to go to the metrodome for a 11am kickoff. It is not fun. Students have a lot of stuff going on in their lives, especially with the economy the way that it is right now, and want to relax on a saturday and not have to drag themselves out of bed at 9:30 or earlier to take a campus connector to the worst stadium in football. I think that in general, student attendance will increase by a vast margin next year and in the years to come just because we will have a stadium on campus.

Now, on a side note, I think that it is really overplayed to blame the students for a lack of attendance. We are just one demographic of college football fans, and the blame should be put on the non-students just as much as it should be on us, but people seem to forget that. Students are the most fluid group of fans in the stadium on any given saturday, it is unfair to cast blame when there is a lull in attendance.

Stadium attendance will be better this season for one simple reason: deep down behind all our intellectuality and opinions, we like shiny new things. TCF Bank Stadium (I throw up in my mouth each time I say that) is a shiny new thing.
 

I don't mind saying TCF Bank Stadium. I just hope there are Bill Cooper targets in the urinals. LOL.
 

Well, this string exceeded expectations. I appreciate the views expressed here on both sides of the discussion. I have a couple of responses and a couple more questions...

First, despite the insuations from some, I am neither a johnny-come-lately nor will I walk away only to return with a different alias. Like someone else flatly stated, I don't care if you agree with me now, or ever. I've paid my dues with this program by faithfully attending games for 30+ years and have seen the good (relatively speaking), the bad and the ugly.
Second, while I did not support the decision to remove Mason, I am not a Mason apologist. He was not able to get us over the hump and I was of the opinion that a change was necessary, particularly before the 3 game win streak that capped his last season. But he certainly wasn't as bad as the picture painted by some. Given that we were in the running for a proven commodity such as Charlie Strong but chose to give the keys to a career TE coach suggested to me that this administration continues to pay lip service towards wanting a strong FB program.
Third, these last two years have not been exciting. Regardless of whether or not you believe the cupboard was bare, it certainly wasn't 1-11 bare. Even Wacker, Smokey Joe, and everyone else in Gopher history managed to avoid this dubious mark. That the non-con schedule was loaded with creampuffs heightens the futility of the first season. The collapse at the end of last season and the worst home shutout loss in history should serve to heighten concern about the direction this program is headed under Brewster's leadership. Now that the offense and defense will be led by new coaches, are we to expect 2 more uninspiring years on the field?

On the flip side, I acknowledge that Brewster cracked the top 25 in recruiting coming off a disasterous year. I also commend him and his staff for retaining 3 seemingly critical players who either failed to qualify last year or were out. These three could have opted to head elsewhere and so props for that. I also agree that the special teams looked faster and for the most part, were solid. Yes, this is where many future starters develop. I also give him props for upping the non-con schedule, but only to a point. Getting throttled year in and year out by the B12 schools did little to enhance our status or recruiting...

Having said all of that, I would appreciate the perspective of the board on the following question... Why, after a winning season capped with a bowl appearance, is Brewster's recruiting class ranked 40 or higher depending on the service followed and 7th in the B10 race? Given Brewster's passion for this side of the equation, shouldn't we be bypassing the Wisconsins and Illinois of the world year in and year out? It really is great to see more kids stay home, but why the seeming lack of follow through this year?
 

Well, this string exceeded expectations. I appreciate the views expressed here on both sides of the discussion. I have a couple of responses and a couple more questions...

First, despite the insuations from some, I am neither a johnny-come-lately nor will I walk away only to return with a different alias. Like someone else flatly stated, I don't care if you agree with me now, or ever. I've paid my dues with this program by faithfully attending games for 30+ years and have seen the good (relatively speaking), the bad and the ugly.
Second, while I did not support the decision to remove Mason, I am not a Mason apologist. He was not able to get us over the hump and I was of the opinion that a change was necessary, particularly before the 3 game win streak that capped his last season. But he certainly wasn't as bad as the picture painted by some. Given that we were in the running for a proven commodity such as Charlie Strong but chose to give the keys to a career TE coach suggested to me that this administration continues to pay lip service towards wanting a strong FB program.
Third, these last two years have not been exciting. Regardless of whether or not you believe the cupboard was bare, it certainly wasn't 1-11 bare. Even Wacker, Smokey Joe, and everyone else in Gopher history managed to avoid this dubious mark. That the non-con schedule was loaded with creampuffs heightens the futility of the first season. The collapse at the end of last season and the worst home shutout loss in history should serve to heighten concern about the direction this program is headed under Brewster's leadership. Now that the offense and defense will be led by new coaches, are we to expect 2 more uninspiring years on the field?

On the flip side, I acknowledge that Brewster cracked the top 25 in recruiting coming off a disasterous year. I also commend him and his staff for retaining 3 seemingly critical players who either failed to qualify last year or were out. These three could have opted to head elsewhere and so props for that. I also agree that the special teams looked faster and for the most part, were solid. Yes, this is where many future starters develop. I also give him props for upping the non-con schedule, but only to a point. Getting throttled year in and year out by the B12 schools did little to enhance our status or recruiting...

Having said all of that, I would appreciate the perspective of the board on the following question... Why, after a winning season capped with a bowl appearance, is Brewster's recruiting class ranked 40 or higher depending on the service followed and 7th in the B10 race? Given Brewster's passion for this side of the equation, shouldn't we be bypassing the Wisconsins and Illinois of the world year in and year out? It really is great to see more kids stay home, but why the seeming lack of follow through this year?


I could not agree more.
 

[/B]
Having said all of that, I would appreciate the perspective of the board on the following question... Why, after a winning season capped with a bowl appearance, is Brewster's recruiting class ranked 40 or higher depending on the service followed and 7th in the B10 race? Given Brewster's passion for this side of the equation, shouldn't we be bypassing the Wisconsins and Illinois of the world year in and year out? It really is great to see more kids stay home, but why the seeming lack of follow through this year?

I would say it's mainly because of the lower number of recruits this year. According to Rivals, we currently average 3.0, and last year we were at 3.07. At Scout, we currently average 2.89, and last year we were at 2.84.

So I would say we are about the same, others have stepped up.

Disclaimer: I don't have a horse in this race, I will support the program whoever is the coach.
 

I did not understand the statements regarding the students at all. If, as stated above by others, there is so much more "excitement" regarding Coach Brewster why is it that attendance is so lame? If only the "diehard fans" who are students are coming to the games, why are these "diehard fans" coming late and leaving so early? It would seem that "excitement", "diehard fans", "arriving in the middle of the first quarter" and "leaving in the third quarter" are phrases that could not easily be put together in the same sentence.

"Hard to get up at 9:30 in the morning"? "Because of the bad economy"? I'm sorry, are we talking about planet earth here?

It certainly wasn't my intention to pick on the overly excited students of today. My remarks and questions were aimed at putting to rest the idea that there is all that excitement out there if attendance is down in every period of the games played whenever, wherever.
 

Quote: "Third, these last two years have not been exciting. Regardless of whether or not you believe the cupboard was bare, it certainly wasn't 1-11 bare."

I have two points:

1. Are you naysayers going to be the judge of what many of us find to be fun and exiting? Do I need to revise my personal feelings about the last two years to suit your negative view of the world? I will readily admit the last 4 years of Mason's tenure were very depressing for me, and the contrast might have unduly affected how I looked at Brewster's first two years. Nevertheless, I have had a hell of good time with Brewster as our coach. It would have been better if more fans would have gotten involved. And of course it would have been much better if we had won more games. Nevertheless, I personally have never been as into college football as I am right now. Brewster deserves most of the credit for that. The rest of you people who are so afraid of "drinking the kool-aid" are only hurting yourselves. What it tells me is that the only way you will be happy is if the Gophers have a coach you approve of, who runs an offense you like, and defensive schemes that are in line with your personal philosophy. God help the coach that doesn't meet all of your expectations if the team struggles on the field.

My current positive feelings about Gopher football will continue as long as the University Administration has a commitment to improving the program to a level that is at least equal to Wisconsin's and Iowa's. Anything beyond that will be gravy for me. Whoever the coach may be will have my support as long as I believe he is trying to do whatever is necessary (within the rules) to improve the team. If after 5 years he has failed, it will be time to find another coach. After all, someone said about 60 posts ago that we are "fans of the team and not the coach".

2. During the 1- 11 season the Gophers started a Redshirt Freshman at quarterback, and three True Freshman in the defensive backfield against Ohio State in the Horseshoe. I am sticking with the "cupboard was bare".
 

Of the Gopher recruits this year, there are only 2-2 stars at this time! There are 2-4 stars and 14-3 stars. That may not be in USC's, OS or Mich league at this time but it is a whole lot better then it was and there is no reason that as the Gophers continue to develop, improve and gain a winning tradition, even better athletes will come their way!
 




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