Question for Fleck Critics

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I think part of these types of threads must be a superstition that PJ will pack up and leave if there isn’t 100% devotion and adoration. I get it. My impression is everyone is thrilled with the win streak and hoping for a 8+ win regular season at this point, and if the team hits double digit wins there will be some major hype. Then, we get someone asking why PJ has some detractors and forces us to bring up all the factual error stuff, stuff that would have been rightfully called out and ridiculed if anyone on this board had stated it. A dark cloud indeed.
 


CurveballJesus said:
Gervarrious Owens and Kelvin Clemmons to Houston
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Well done. Is there any crying and nashing of teeth over the loss of these two JUCO transfers. My point is we are not losing key building blocks as is being seen at other programs. I think the stuff that people don't like about PJ is exactly why it is working here. You can't have the delicious cake without the sugar (is that already a Fleckism?)
 

CurveballJesus said:
Gervarrious Owens and Kelvin Clemmons to Houston
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Well done. Is anyone crying and nashing their teeth over the loss of these two JUCO transfers. My point is that we are not losing key building blocks as is being seen at other programs. The very things that bug people about PJ are the same things that make it work. You can't have the delicious cake without the sugar (is that already a Fleckism?).
 

boatwagon said:
Well done. Is anyone crying and nashing their teeth over the loss of these two JUCO transfers. My point is that we are not losing key building blocks as is being seen at other programs. The very things that bug people about PJ are the same things that make it work. You can't have the delicious cake without the sugar (is that already a Fleckism?).
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um, no? You asked for names and I and others gave you names.
 


Spoofin said:
And THAT is the rub. Well said.

PJ publicly says he is OK with the fact that some people won’t like him. However, many of PJ’s fans aren’t for some reason.


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Dislike away. Pretending you're offended makes YOU dishonest and a fraud. You aren't offended. Stop it.
 

People can dislike PJ Fleck and still like the Gophers. In fact, they can dislike PJ Fleck, LIKE some of the things he preaches, DISLIKE things he says, and like that he's winning.

Personally, I've always been a huge fan of Fleck and the hire. I was about to run through a wall after his first press conference. I think he's 100% genuine in his approach to building a program and a culture that sets young men up for success after football. I don't think he lies on purpose, but I do think he probably makes mistakes (some of which get repeated) and also cherry-picks facts to buy time and sympathy. He's not perfect, but I really like him.

Some people like coaches (or bosses...athletes...celebrities) who yell and scream and are bada$$. Some like master motivators. Some like people who are just nice guys. Some dislike one or more of these. I don't understand the dislike for PJ Fleck personally, but that's only because I like him. I DO understand that others might dislike him...because humans are vastly different from one another.
 

If it were up to me, Fleck would have left Row the Boat at Western Michigan and adopted Ski-U-Mah as the major slogan. But it's not up to me. If Brewster had won here, the Rose Bowl Turf would be a sacred relic and we'd love him for it. If Fleck had washed out here, we'd remember Row the Boat just like we remember the Rose Bowl Turf. If he wins the Big Ten Championship, I just happen to notice that "PJ FLECK STADIUM" has the same number of letters as "TCF BANK STADIUM" so there would be plenty of room to change the signs.
 

boatwagon said:
I got on the boatwagon about an hour after catching my breath following the first press conference. I've never been so excited about Gopher Football and Fleck is the one that made that happen. I'm frankly sick of listening to all the complainers. How many transfers have happened in the last 12 months at Minnesota? Why can't you think of any? These young men want to play in this culture for this coach. If you don't like it become a Husker fan -- you'll get all the traditional football crap and the losing the goes along with it.
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Let me get this straight.... You are sick of listening to people be critical of PJ, so as a result you read a thread titled “question for PJ critics”. Has anyone ever questioned your choices.


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Section2 said:
Dislike away. Pretending you're offended makes YOU dishonest and a fraud. You aren't offended. Stop it.
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Oh, so your argument is now down to telling me what I do and don’t actually believe? You are lucky you aren’t being graded on this.


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GFBfan said:
All those things you listed, were his MO prior to coming here. He hasn't changed and you're puzzled because some don't like it and you want people to come up with new reasons? You think that those that don't like all things PJ are only that way because of Reusse/Barreiro?

Had Claeys stayed the coach and we were in this position with him, do you think there would be some people on GH who didn't like his demeanor, dress during games and weight?
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Disliking is fine. However, some people are more than tired by the constant need to examine everything PJ does or says looking for something to point out wrong--real or imagined. It's like a dumb ass dog who goes chasing after a squirrel every time he sees one. Squirrel runs up a tree. Dumb ass dog comes backs looking like he accomplished something. PJ throws out "2nd youngest team" and, just like clockwork, there's a few on GH chasing that "squirrel." Then they pat themselves on the back and make sure everyone knows how much more virtuous they are. Hell, we've got one clown virtuous enough to proclaim he was going to go on a crusade against PJ.

I'd love to hear new reasons for disliking PJ since the old ones have been used over and over.
 

Mulligan said:
Disliking is fine. However, some people are more than tired by the constant need to examine everything PJ does or says looking for something to point out wrong--real or imagined. It's like a dumb ass dog who goes chasing after a squirrel every time he sees one. Squirrel runs up a tree. Dumb ass dog comes backs looking like he accomplished something. PJ throws out "2nd youngest team" and, just like clockwork, there's a few on GH chasing that "squirrel." Then they pat themselves on the back and make sure everyone knows how much more virtuous they are. Hell, we've got one clown virtuous enough to proclaim he was going to go on a crusade against PJ.

I'd love to hear new reasons for disliking PJ since the old ones have been used over and over.
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Gratuitous on field leg-wrapping hugs with his wife was a new one...
 

As long as he wins I say put all the boats you want on the jerseys. I admit when he was first hired I thought it was Brewster #2, but he's without a doubt proving me wrong so far. Even if they go 3-3 the rest of the season I would consider it extremely successful.
 



9 pages and 130+ posts on this old topic already. Classic. Like watching re-runs of Andy Griffith show - an oldie but sure to get ratings. The PJ trolls are in their glory.
 

I love the coach, except for the fact he makes the team practice, and he makes them go to class.

That drives me crazy.

If he could just stop making them go to class and not have practices, and then win... then I would be really happy! That's the kind of coach I want and I won't "like" any coach who doesn't do exactly that. If we win, great. I'll celebrate, but I'm not for any of this nonsense of practicing and going to class. Coaches that do that drive me nuts. It's not in my nature.
 

Mulligan said:
Hell, we've got one clown virtuous enough to proclaim he was going to go on a crusade against PJ.
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Dude, everyone on her knows you started that clever “crusade” talk - why lie about it again?

Just like I never complained about people being mean to me - yet you keep spreading that lie.

Who do you think you are fooling? Maybe instead of ripping people about virtues you should develop some.


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Mulligan said:
Disliking is fine. However, some people are more than tired by the constant need to examine everything PJ does or says looking for something to point out wrong--real or imagined. It's like a dumb ass dog who goes chasing after a squirrel every time he sees one. Squirrel runs up a tree. Dumb ass dog comes backs looking like he accomplished something. PJ throws out "2nd youngest team" and, just like clockwork, there's a few on GH chasing that "squirrel." Then they pat themselves on the back and make sure everyone knows how much more virtuous they are. Hell, we've got one clown virtuous enough to proclaim he was going to go on a crusade against PJ.

I'd love to hear new reasons for disliking PJ since the old ones have been used over and over.
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The old ones haven't changed, so in a thread that asks what's to dislike about PJ now, those things should be listed. Just because they are still the same doesn't make them any less valid a reason to not like everything PJ does.
If he had changed that stuff, I could see saying something and defending PJ.
 

Face The Facts said:
I love the coach, except for the fact he makes the team practice, and he makes them go to class.

That drives me crazy.

If he could just stop making them go to class and not have practices, and then win... then I would be really happy! That's the kind of coach I want and I won't "like" any coach who doesn't do exactly that. If we win, great. I'll celebrate, but I'm not for any of this nonsense of practicing and going to class. Coaches that do that drive me nuts. It's not in my nature.
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If you really felt this way it would make me sooooo mad.


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This thread has me wondering.....

if Fleck left MN, would some of the people on this board still be "Gopher" fans, or would they follow Fleck to his next job?

I'm not trying to be snarky - I honestly question whether some people are loyal to the coach or the program. My loyalties are to the program. 1st and always. coaches come and go. players come and go. fans come and go.

I'm happy the Gophers are winning. I hope they keep winning. I don't like some aspects of the Coach's behavior. And I don't know why that bothers some people so much.

With all the things going on in the world, the fact that I don't like some of the things Fleck does should be pretty low on the list of problems. if that's all you have to worry about, you have a charmed life.
 

Spoofin said:
Let me get this straight.... You are sick of listening to people be critical of PJ, so as a result you read a thread titled “question for PJ critics”. Has anyone ever questioned your choices.


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My mom sometimes. Did you know her?
 

Spoofin said:
Oh, so your argument is now down to telling me what I do and don’t actually believe? You are lucky you aren’t being graded on this.
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Oh, so you like telling Fleck what he believes, but you don't like anyone turning that on you? What a giant surprise that you're a pathetic hypocrite.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
This thread has me wondering.....

if Fleck left MN, would some of the people on this board still be "Gopher" fans, or would they follow Fleck to his next job?

I'm not trying to be snarky - I honestly question whether some people are loyal to the coach or the program. My loyalties are to the program. 1st and always. coaches come and go. players come and go. fans come and go.

I'm happy the Gophers are winning. I hope they keep winning. I don't like some aspects of the Coach's behavior. And I don't know why that bothers some people so much.

With all the things going on in the world, the fact that I don't like some of the things Fleck does should be pretty low on the list of problems. if that's all you have to worry about, you have a charmed life.
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If Fleck leaves, I would still be a Gopher fan #1 but bummed that he left.
My reaction to whether I'd still be a Fleck fan would depend on how he leaves, where he goes, etc.

If he left for Notre Dame or WI I'd have a hard time pulling for him.
If he went to some random SEC team, I'd probably be a fan unless there was something I really didn't like about how he left.
 

Mulligan said:
Disliking is fine. However, some people are more than tired by the constant need to examine everything PJ does or says looking for something to point out wrong--real or imagined. It's like a dumb ass dog who goes chasing after a squirrel every time he sees one. Squirrel runs up a tree. Dumb ass dog comes backs looking like he accomplished something. PJ throws out "2nd youngest team" and, just like clockwork, there's a few on GH chasing that "squirrel." Then they pat themselves on the back and make sure everyone knows how much more virtuous they are. Hell, we've got one clown virtuous enough to proclaim he was going to go on a crusade against PJ.

I'd love to hear new reasons for disliking PJ since the old ones have been used over and over.
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Wouldn’t that make you a dumb *** for chasing after people that don’t share your opinions? Breathe.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I'm not trying to be snarky - I honestly question whether some people are loyal to the coach or the program.
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What makes one loyal to the program?

Excessively whined about all things Fleck for the past 3 years are you loyal to the program?

Complained about oars on the uniform are you loyal to the program?

Complained about ROW THE BOAT and any other Fleck slogan are you loyal to the program?

If doing those things make you loyal to the program then I am one of the most disloyal among us.
 

I wouldn't put much faith in Fleck's accuracy on any positive statement or restatement of how difficult an adversity the team overcame.

He, IMO, pretty consistently shifts the truth about 15-20% in favor of making his case. I think it is intentional and part of his overall approach. That's seems to be working for him as a sales strategy in getting buy in from players.

If your constantly trying get people to be 15-20% better than they believe they can be themselves, it might even be a prerequisite.
 

Section2 said:
Oh, so you like telling Fleck what he believes, but you don't like anyone turning that on you? What a giant surprise that you're a pathetic hypocrite.
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I’m not even going to try and figure out WTH you are talking about. I think you have proven how serious we should take you with your own posts better than I could have.


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Spoofin said:
I’m not even going to try and figure out WTH you are talking about. I think you have proven how serious we should take you with your own posts better than I could have.
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Offended by PJ Fleck. I can't even imagine how sad of a human being you'd have to be to make that statement.

If you love the team and want them to be successful, I'd think you could get over your personal malice toward the man based on the trajectory and results alone.

But even if not, I'd think, man, at least I can see that the players are doing well in school and in the community, that's a positive.

And even if you don't care about that, and you're just an angry miserable person, to state that he offends you. Just speechless.
 

Loyalty talk, huh. It’s strange how some still seem to think the RTB slogan is a part of the program. It is PJF on rent to the department for a long as he’s employed.
 



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