Putting it in perspective

[golfing18now]

The fact is, if Pitino's last name wasn't Pitino, he would be getting crucified right now. As for the longer term, not landing the Big 3 is inexusable. Tubby landed the Big 2 upon his arrival at the U (White and Williams). Pitino, right now, is living off someone else's players. When he gets his full roster, we'll see if rises or falls, like so many young, upstart coaches out there who tend to fizzle out after a while.

Getting crucified after ten conference games? That's ridiculous. Any new coach to a division one basketball program should have more than ten games in conference before getting crucified and/or having final four expectations declared. If we are sitting in the same spot after 10 games in year six then we can have a different conversation.

Regarding the big three....inexcusable, really? We should blast Pitino because Jones/Reid had the nerve to go to schools like Duke and Stanford? Are kids "alllowed' to consider other schools? As another poster pointed out in a different thread, should we no longer allow kids like Bobby Jackson, Willie Burton, Voshon Lenard, Andre Hollins, and so many others not come to school here because they didn't grow up here? I don't understand this logic.

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

The fact is, if Pitino's last name wasn't Pitino, he would be getting crucified right now. As for the longer term, not landing the Big 3 is inexusable. Tubby landed the Big 2 upon his arrival at the U (White and Williams). Pitino, right now, is living off someone else's players. When he gets his full roster, we'll see if rises or falls, like so many young, upstart coaches out there who tend to fizzle out after a while.

Best 2 recruits ever. White never played a game for us but still managed to humiliate the program. I liked Williams a lot. He worked hard for four years, improved, and represented the U well. However, he never developed into the kind of player that a coach should want to hang is hat on as his biggest success.

As for Pitino living off of somebody else's players, I think Lil Dre, Malik, and Joey have all had significant contributions this year. More than 1/4 of the rotation is made up of Pitino recruits, and he did not even have a full recruiting season to get them.

 

[StCroix]

We have lost 3 games in a row by a total of 8 points. A coach with really only 2 of the players (type of player) that he wanted. The "experts" picked us near last or last in the conference. Coach has gotten more out of this group than Tubby ever did. More than Likely, if Tubby was still here, Mo would be gone. Lil Dre and Malik wouldn't be here and more than likely would have more losses than we do now. Deep breath and a little realism goes a long way.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[The-Real-Truth]

I heard Dick Pit on the Jock Itch show say that he told Mo he needed to lose 60 pounds or he wouldn't play and he sicked his trainer on him to do it. So, I guess he's a liar too.

Yes, he also told Wally if grows 4 inches he will get playing time. By the way, what happened to development of Wally. It will happen next year.

 

[The-Real-Truth]

I think he should have landed one of the big three, but when Tyus was basically out of the picture and Rashad Vaughn is going to decide between UNLV and Iowa State...he probably only had a shot at Reid (within the rules).

I think everyone will crucify you for the living off someone else's players line, so let me be the first to do it. This team is AWFUL without DeAndre Mathieu. Tubby hasn't had a point guard on the roster since Al Nolen. Mo Walker would still be 300lbs and incapable of running the floor, moving his feet, or staying on the court for five minutes if Tubby was still coaching the Gophers. To act like Tubby would have suddenly issued an ultimatum to Mo after 3 year of showing up out of shape is laughable. There's been noticeable improvement from guys like Elliott, Mo, and Oto where there was little improvement in prior years from the Joe Coleman's and Rodney Williams' (to be fair, neither Austin nor Andre Hollins has improved under Coach Pitino to this point).

This team still has the potential to finish with an awful record (or a respectable one), so the jury is very much out. I don't think Pitino gets crucified by any fan base in the nation for being 4-6 in conference play after taking over a team that finished 8-10 in conference play and graduated two of its top three (or four) players, including the only power forward on the roster.

Two years ago, during the tip-off, Tubby had his 100% attention on Rashad. I saw that myself. I didn't know who that was until I asked people around me. We can only speculate but I am positive that he would have got at least 2 of them. In fact, there is a rumor that 2 players from MN will be on TT roster next year.

 

[Gopher Warrior]

Norwood also hired Grant at VCU,

Nope. Teague's resume gets such false praise - it's remarkable.

That said, Pitino is a legit coach. Excellent hire & he'll have a strong coaching career.

 

[scher215]

Nope. Teague's resume gets such false praise - it's remarkable. That said, Pitino is a legit coach. Excellent hire & he'll have a strong coaching career.

Yeah I believe Grant was hired a few moths prior to Teague.

Shaka was his hire though and I agree Pitino will be effective as well.

 

[Bad Gopher]

Does anybody really believe Maurice would have lost 60 pounds had there not been a coaching change?

Some have said that the best definition of a leader is that his/her subordinates legitimately say they did it themselves.

Edit: I found the quote; it's from Lao-tsu -
"When the best leader's work is done the people say, 'We did it ourselves!'"

 

[GopherJake]

Yes, he also told Wally if grows 4 inches he will get playing time. By the way, what happened to development of Wally. It will happen next year.

Like many of your posts, this one doesn't pass the logic test, The-Real-BS.

As for Wally - do you mean the non-redshirt-Tubby sophomore recruit that - in the 12 minutes he played last year - had about 20 three point attempts blocked down onto the top of his head from a defender behind him and had absolutely no clue where to go on defense? Is this the guy you are talking about? The one Tubby gave a scholarship to and didn't redshirt? That guy? Just want to be clear who we are talking about, before I comment.

If that's the guy, he will *definitely* improve next year and he will for sure have a different name and possibly he will change ethnicity. He might even have 4 years of eligibility left entering next season and a different accent.

 

[station19]

Like many of your posts, this one doesn't pass the logic test, The-Real-BS.

As for Wally - do you mean the non-redshirt-Tubby sophomore recruit that - in the 12 minutes he played last year - had about 20 three point attempts blocked down onto the top of his head from a defender behind him and had absolutely no clue where to go on defense? Is this the guy you are talking about? The one Tubby gave a scholarship to and didn't redshirt? That guy? Just want to be clear who we are talking about, before I comment.

If that's the guy, he will *definitely* improve next year and he will for sure have a different name and possibly he will change ethnicity. He might even have 4 years of eligibility left entering next season and a different accent.

One of the finest posts ever on GH.

 

[Gopherguy0723]

Like many of your posts, this one doesn't pass the logic test, The-Real-BS.

As for Wally - do you mean the non-redshirt-Tubby sophomore recruit that - in the 12 minutes he played last year - had about 20 three point attempts blocked down onto the top of his head from a defender behind him and had absolutely no clue where to go on defense? Is this the guy you are talking about? The one Tubby gave a scholarship to and didn't redshirt? That guy? Just want to be clear who we are talking about, before I comment.

If that's the guy, he will *definitely* improve next year and he will for sure have a different name and possibly he will change ethnicity. He might even have 4 years of eligibility left entering next season and a different accent.

You mean the guy who gets no playing time, has public spats with his coach, has his dad leak things through the media, shows almost no enthusiasm for his team on the bench, and whose older brother eliminated the Gophers as a suitor might not be on the team next year?

What gives you that impression?

 

[golfing18now]

I was particularly impressed when he was shooting 35 foot jump shots in warm-ups before one of the games last year.

In Tubby's defense, I think it was Wally and family that forced Tubby's hand to remove his redshirt. That was how Tubby characterized it in one of his weekly radio shows last year.

 

[GopherJake]

I was particularly impressed when he was shooting 35 foot jump shots in warm-ups before one of the games last year.

In Tubby's defense, I think it was Wally and family that forced Tubby's hand to remove his redshirt. That was how Tubby characterized it in one of his weekly radio shows last year.

Tubby was the coach. He didn't need to put Wally into the game ever if he didn't want to. See Pitino, Richard.

 

[golfing18now]

Tubby was the coach. He didn't need to put Wally into the game ever if he didn't want to. See Pitino, Richard.

And for the most part, to his credit, he didn't.

EDIT: not trying to be a Tubby apologist. Tubby recruited him.

 

[GopherJake]

And for the most part, to his credit, he didn't.

EDIT: not trying to be a Tubby apologist. Tubby recruited him.

Yeah, ok, I get where you're coming from. "You don't wanna redshirt? Ok, you won't redshirt then. Or play either.........." Still, I disagree. Tubby should have been dictator. What was Wally going to do? Transfer? So what?

 

[golfing18now]

Yeah, ok, I get where you're coming from. "You don't wanna redshirt? Ok, you won't redshirt then. Or play either.........." Still, I disagree. Tubby should have been dictator. What was Wally going to do? Transfer? So what?

I agree with you. He probably should have played dictator. It was a terrible decision by all involved to remove the redshirt that late in the season.

Now talking out of the other side of my mouth -- the only complicating factor (for Tubby) was the recruitment of the bigger fish, his brother.

 

[Cayman]

Yeah, ok, I get where you're coming from. "You don't wanna redshirt? Ok, you won't redshirt then. Or play either.........." Still, I disagree. Tubby should have been dictator. What was Wally going to do? Transfer? So what?

I've seen it said on this board that Tubby's players hated him, and that's why so many guys transferred. Tubby was probably actually trying to please one of his players by not redshirting him. He had just joined the team, so Tubby probably saw something in him and wanted him on the team. I think it would be odd to ask a player to join your team and then be ambivalent as whether he wants to leave just a few weeks into that player's first season. Maybe after a season or two and they both decide it's not working out, I can understand that, but I don't think any coach would want one of their players considering a transfer less than halfway through their freshman year.

Also it seems to me that redshirts in basketball are usually a mutual decision between player and coach. I believe Elliot and Tubby both agreed that he would redshirt his freshman year. I don't have a problem with Tubby not forcing Wally to redshirt.

 

[The-Real-Truth]

Tubby was the coach. He didn't need to put Wally into the game ever if he didn't want to. See Pitino, Richard.

I was too. He must have made 10 3's in a row when I watched him during his 1st Tip-off.

It is so sad that some people in here don't get it. I used Wally as an example. Some players don't develope with certain type of coaching.

By the way, EE's development started when Ralph was benched. How many of you asked why Oto was getting any playing time last year? His developement started last year also.

 

[GopherJake]

I was too.

???? You were too what?

He must have made 10 3's in a row when I watched him during his 1st Tip-off.

What is "his 1st Tip-off?" Was he defended (from behind, cuz that's where most of his 3 point attempts are blocked from, down into the top of his head)?

It is so sad that some people in here don't get it. I used Wally as an example. Some players don't develope with certain type of coaching.

Well, Wally is 0 fer 2 now.

By the way, EE's development started when Ralph was benched. How many of you asked why Oto was getting any playing time last year? His developement started last year also.

Oto sucked last year. His dramatic improvement took place after the coaching change. It's not even debatable, The-Real-BS.

 

[howieramone]

It's way too early to point at examples of Coach P's ability to develop players. Let's see how they play next season. I give you Not So Huge Mo, but getting a player to lose 50 pounds is not repeatable.

 

[GopherJake]

It's way too early to point at examples of Coach P's ability to develop players. Let's see how they play next season. I give you Not So Huge Mo, but getting a player to lose 50 pounds is not repeatable.

Yes, we have a small sample size; you are correct. That doesn't mean there is no evidence.

 

[The-Real-Truth]

???? You were too what?



What is "his 1st Tip-off?" Was he defended (from behind, cuz that's where most of his 3 point attempts are blocked from, down into the top of his head)?



Well, Wally is 0 fer 2 now.



Oto sucked last year. His dramatic improvement took place after the coaching change. It's not even debatable, The-Real-BS.

Lets stop this cute name-calling. I was impressed too. He was defended by Austin. Yes he is 0 fer 2. Where was Oto in Purdue's game?

I am done with this post. It is all yours. I gave up.

Go Gophers and beat the crap out of IU.

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

It's way too early to point at examples of Coach P's ability to develop players. Let's see how they play next season. I give you Not So Huge Mo, but getting a player to lose 50 pounds is not repeatable.

Certainly not if he keeps bringing in guys like Little Dre. If that kid lost 50 pounds I think he'd be into negative weight.

 

[GopherJake]

Tubby was the coach. He didn't need to put Wally into the game ever if he didn't want to. See Pitino, Richard.

I was too. He must have made 10 3's in a row when I watched him during his 1st Tip-off.

???? You were too what?

What is "his 1st Tip-off?"

I was impressed too.

Your answer makes no sense. Please explain what you are talking about. What is "his 1st Tip-off?"

Where was Oto in Purdue's game?

On the bench. He hasn't played as well lately and Joey King may be stepping ahead of him in the rotation as he becomes better defensively.

 

[Shawn Bradley Guy]

I liked Tubby when he was here. But, "benching Ralph" never happened under Tubby in Ralph's four years. Ralph benched himself with either injuries and/or foul trouble. He started every game here when he was healthy.

 

[golfing18now]

I was particularly impressed when he was shooting 35 foot jump shots in warm-ups before one of the games last year.

Jake -- I think The-Real-Truth (is this really Jim Cramer?) was talking about my quote here. I was actually trying to be sarcastic. I was really not impressed last year, more like...."what is this guy doing shooting from just inside half court while the rest of the team is taking legitimate shots." Reminded me of jacking up half-court shots in high school, screwing around in gym class.

 

[Moonlight]

Great posts, bga.
As a season ticket holder, I am on my third coach. Last year would have been the end for me w/o a coaching change.
No matter how disappointing losses have been this year - not one was depressing or discouraging. Those who are not at the games can't see the kind of coach Pitino is. Totally focused and engaged.

One not-so-small point (and my last regarding Tubby, I hope):
Tubby wouldn't have gotten to OT against Purdue. Honestly, there were sooo many games when I just couldn't believe that Tubby wasn't going to call a time out, foul or use any kind of end of the game strategy. We just recently lost some games we wouldn't have even been within striking distance w/Tubby.
We would leave discouraged and disgusted that the we seemed to give up the game w/o even a whimper, only to drive home and listen to the post game radio interview, and hear Tubby seemingly disgusted with the players for giving up. WHAT?!
THAT is what I wasn't going to pay for, another year to witness that.

This year, I see a team that does not give up. It can't always execute, but it has the leadership and coaching to learn how to stay with a game until the last tick of the clock.

 

[The-Real-Truth]

I wasn't going to write on this any more but I just have a couple of things to say. If you really know much about basketball, you could see that B1G is not very strong this year so you are comparing apples to oranges. Wasn't a few days ago that Richard said that he was trying to get that losing mentality out of these kids' heads. Please, all I and a few others are asking you people to be fair and gratefull for what the previous coach did. It's not easy to win here so I don't disagree that Tubby was burnt out toward the end. I just won't be so negative about a guy who is so well-respected in this world of basketball and beyond. You saw the number of people who showed up earlier in TT games. The game for tomorrow is sold out. Tubby brought the same level excitement here too and as many noted he was very unlucky at times and made mistakes too. Saying that he can't coach is only the opinion of a few here. For the love of god, Gophers beat 2 number one teams in the country during his time here. bga1, Tiny, and jamloo had an agenda here and they continue bashing the former coach until......

 

[bga1]

I wasn't going to write on this any more but I just have a couple of things to say. If you really know much about basketball, you could see that B1G is not very strong this year so you are comparing apples to oranges. Wasn't a few days ago that Richard said that he was trying to get that losing mentality out of these kids' heads. Please, all I and a few others are asking you people to be fair and gratefull for what the previous coach did. It's not easy to win here so I don't disagree that Tubby was burnt out toward the end. I just won't be so negative about a guy who is so well-respected in this world of basketball and beyond. You saw the number of people who showed up earlier in TT games. The game for tomorrow is sold out. Tubby brought the same level excitement here too and as many noted he was very unlucky at times and made mistakes too. Saying that he can't coach is only the opinion of a few here. For the love of god, Gophers beat 2 number one teams in the country during his time here. bga1, Tiny, and jamloo had an agenda here and they continue bashing the former coach until......

Listen "Real Truth" - I like most fans here have one agenda: I love Gopher basketball. I was all in when Tubby arrived and in year one he didn't disappoint. Then he landed a couple of nice recruiting classes and I was pumped and feeling good that Tubby was going to get it done. But from there I started to see a stagnancy. Players started leaving. The lifeless, play not to lose style and the players who lost confidence in themselves. But I still was hanging in there and even defending Tubby until last year when the excuses ran out. It became obvious that Tubby was tired and just collecting a check here and that this year was going to be a train wreck. Imagine this roster without Matheui, Smith and a slimmed down Walker and even a newly confident Oto.

 

[bga1]

Great posts, bga.
As a season ticket holder, I am on my third coach. Last year would have been the end for me w/o a coaching change.
No matter how disappointing losses have been this year - not one was depressing or discouraging. Those who are not at the games can't see the kind of coach Pitino is. Totally focused and engaged.

One not-so-small point (and my last regarding Tubby, I hope):
Tubby wouldn't have gotten to OT against Purdue. Honestly, there were sooo many games when I just couldn't believe that Tubby wasn't going to call a time out, foul or use any kind of end of the game strategy. We just recently lost some games we wouldn't have even been within striking distance w/Tubby.
We would leave discouraged and disgusted that the we seemed to give up the game w/o even a whimper, only to drive home and listen to the post game radio interview, and hear Tubby seemingly disgusted with the players for giving up. WHAT?!
THAT is what I wasn't going to pay for, another year to witness that.

This year, I see a team that does not give up. It can't always execute, but it has the leadership and coaching to learn how to stay with a game until the last tick of the clock.

Thanks Moonlight-I totally agree your evaluation of what is seen on and off the court. Love it. The big wins will come.