Putting it in perspective

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bga1

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I'm just recovering from last nights loss- that was a tough one. However as I look at this season so far I have to be very pleased with the future of this program.

Let's face it, this team is not real talented. At the same time if you look at the Big Ten games other than Iowa (where we got clobbered), in our other 5 losses combined the total point spread at the end of regulation was 8 points. We are literally 5 or 6 made shots from being 9-1. Should we be 9-1? No, we should be 4-6 that's what we have earned. But the idea that we have played everybody competitively with the limited club we have is encouraging.

NCAAs look doubtful - although in this crazy year I'm not giving up. We may win 3 or 4 in a row and change everything. Doubtful but possible. Regardless we have these things to be positive about:

1. Mo Walker- who'd have thunk it? Who made him into Al Jefferson?
2. Dre Matheui - again who would have thought a 5-9 kid could come in and have this impact? Yeah he has to clean up the TOs but what a great find.
3. The rebounding- terrible last night. However, coming into the year I thought we would lose the boards by 10 every night. Without a power forward- they have done fine.
4. The Pitino system- would it work in the Big 10? It works and it's working even without the type of players he needs. Wait until he gets the players- and he will.
5. Players are getting better- Mo, Oto, Elliot- all a lot better than last year. McNeil is getting better by the game and will be a defensive stopper for years to come. Joey King is learning when to pass the ball and has made some sweet dishes lately.

The only down side to this year so far is the play of the two Hollins'. If they were having the type of Big Ten year I had hoped for we would have 2-3 more wins minimum. If they get their shots back we are still in for a lot of fun the rest of this year.

I've enjoyed every game this year. The future is bright.
 

1,3 & 4 I have been preaching for weeks. Good post, spot on.

Though the outcome has not always been what we wanted, the effort is there. There were times the past years where I questioned how bad the players AND the coach wanted it. How many times did we see the Tubby doe in headlights look? There is fire here. The flame is small, but you can see it building.

Temper expectations and you won't be disappointed if you look at the body of work with what we have for talent. When coach gets the talent HE wants for HIS system, I think we will all be very pleased.

Side note...anyone know if there has been any movement on a new practice facility? Too me, its a must.
 

Good thoughts, Beeg. I'm trying to stay optimistic on making the NCAA's. We knew this team would lose some they shouldn't and win some they shouldn't. I don't really think they've done the second one yet. I wouldn't shocked to steal one of the road games @Wiscy, OSU or Michigan. And the RPI is holding up well enough that 8-10 just might sneak us in, even if it's to Dayton.
 

bga1 said:
McNeil is getting better by the game and will be a defensive stopper for years to come. .
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This.
I'm definetley high on this kid for the future. He seems to have a good handle when running the point and has good ability to get the the rim. Being that he is just a freshman, I think he is going to be really good down the road for us.
 

bga1 said:
I'm just recovering from last nights loss- that was a tough one. However as I look at this season so far I have to be very pleased with the future of this program.

Let's face it, this team is not real talented. At the same time if you look at the Big Ten games other than Iowa (where we got clobbered), in our other 5 losses combined the total point spread at the end of regulation was 8 points. We are literally 5 or 6 made shots from being 9-1. Should we be 9-1? No, we should be 4-6 that's what we have earned. But the idea that we have played everybody competitively with the limited club we have is encouraging.

NCAAs look doubtful - although in this crazy year I'm not giving up. We may win 3 or 4 in a row and change everything. Doubtful but possible. Regardless we have these things to be positive about:

1. Mo Walker- who'd have thunk it? Who made him into Al Jefferson?
2. Dre Matheui - again who would have thought a 5-9 kid could come in and have this impact? Yeah he has to clean up the TOs but what a great find.
3. The rebounding- terrible last night. However, coming into the year I thought we would lose the boards by 10 every night. Without a power forward- they have done fine.
4. The Pitino system- would it work in the Big 10? It works and it's working even without the type of players he needs. Wait until he gets the players- and he will.
5. Players are getting better- Mo, Oto, Elliot- all a lot better than last year. McNeil is getting better by the game and will be a defensive stopper for years to come. Joey King is learning when to pass the ball and has made some sweet dishes lately.

The only down side to this year so far is the play of the two Hollins'. If they were having the type of Big Ten year I had hoped for we would have 2-3 more wins minimum. If they get their shots back we are still in for a lot of fun the rest of this year.

I've enjoyed every game this year. The future is bright.
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I agree and the nice part is we return just about everyone and bring in some nice recruits who should all contribute in some fashion next season. Tough for Dre to play at expectations when he's been out for three games, I think Austin was in a slump, but is coming around, I'm still hopeful for 9-9 until a 10th loss proves me wrong.
 


I've been pleased with overall player improvement, especially Mo.
 

Well if Tubby had struck out on the 4 in state recruits and was in 8th place in the Big Ten the naysayers would be posting a list of coaches to replace him.
 

The Brain Trust said:
Well if Tubby had struck out on the 4 in state recruits and was in 8th place in the Big Ten the naysayers would be posting a list of coaches to replace him.
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After six years on the job, possibly. After 10 conference games, I hope not.
 

The Brain Trust said:
Well if Tubby had struck out on the 4 in state recruits and was in 8th place in the Big Ten the naysayers would be posting a list of coaches to replace him.
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The difference would be that Tubby would have had years to develop relationships with and recruit the in-state recruits, and Pitino had part of one season. If Pitino, after 6 chances plus the opportunity to fill out a roster with players recruited by him to play his style has still failed to post even a single winning season in the B1G, I will be prepping said list of possible replacements.

However, as of right now, Pitino is only 2 games under .500 despite trying to play his round hole system with Tubby's square peg players (not trying to knock on the quality of those players, just that they were recruited by a different coach to play a different style of ball).
 



bleedsmaroonandgold said:
The difference would be that Tubby would have had years to develop relationships with and recruit the in-state recruits, and Pitino had part of one season. If Pitino, after 6 chances plus the opportunity to fill out a roster with players recruited by him to play his style has still failed to post even a single winning season in the B1G, I will be prepping said list of possible replacements.

However, as of right now, Pitino is only 2 games under .500 despite trying to play his round hole system with Tubby's square peg players (not trying to knock on the quality of those players, just that they were recruited by a different coach to play a different style of ball).
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This is basically what I was going to say. It's been pretty obvious that Pitino has been only partially successful with installing his system. I doubt I'm the only one who has been having trouble trying to see what that style of ball is in some of the games. My perception has been that when the players do what they're supposed to do the team has exceeded expectations. So hopefully those are the days when the system is being executed properly.
 

The Brain Trust said:
Well if Tubby had struck out on the 4 in state recruits and was in 8th place in the Big Ten the naysayers would be posting a list of coaches to replace him.
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I really think that Tubby had a better chance of landing those players. That's over and we are going to stop talking about it. One thing that I don't get it is the love-fest these people have with Richard's style. I am not sure what it is????? Like KYGopher said a few weeks back, Richard is learning on the job. There will be some growing pain. Lets be realistic. A few weeks ago, people were talking about Final Four with the exact same players. Now, they say, lets wait until Richard gets his own players. Some went on and on about how much he has developed Oto, Mo, and EE. These days, they say, we were expected to have noboady at 4. There will be some tough time. Do not try to sugarcoat it. This is what Richard can do at the moment. He will get better for sure but don't make any excuses for him. Stop calling refs anti-Gophers. That would be another excuse.
 

Gotta say, after last night's game I thought there'd be a better chance of seeing a "fire Pitino" thread than a thread like this. Its refreshing to see in this state!
 

The-Real-Truth said:
I really think that Tubby had a better chance of landing those players. That's over and we are going to stop talking about it. One thing that I don't get it is the love-fest these people have with Richard's style. I am not sure what it is????? Like KYGopher said a few weeks back, Richard is learning on the job. There will be some growing pain. Lets be realistic. A few weeks ago, people were talking about Final Four with the exact same players. Now, they say, lets wait until Richard gets his own players. Some went on and on about how much he has developed Oto, Mo, and EE. These days, they say, we were expected to have noboady at 4. There will be some tough time. Do not try to sugarcoat it. This is what Richard can do at the moment. He will get better for sure but don't make any excuses for him. Stop calling refs anti-Gophers. That would be another excuse.
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Seriously - this is what Richard can do at the moment?

Right now - I'd say most of the people on this board would say he's a better coach than Tubby. Tubby would be on the bottom of the conference right now with this squad. Mo would weigh 300, and we wouldn't have Matheui.

Tubby got fired because the AD saw what was ahead. He didn't fire him for going to the tournament. He fired Tubby because he saw Tubby's high water mark and off the charts enthusiasm and it wasn't enough for him. And it wasn't enough for the fans either.

Good luck to Tubby and good luck to you.
 



Before this season started, a majority of posters on GH and the Local/National media felt this would be a really down year for our Gophers. Coach Pitino has the guys playing at a much higher level of intensity and success than most predicted. As we started winning OOC games and some big wins versus Wisky and Ohio State, the expectations got higher. I want all of you to go back to what you thought prior to the season and, I will say, the team has exceeded, by far, competitively, what we thought early on.

Go Gophers!!!
 

bga1 said:
Seriously - this is what Richard can do at the moment?

Right now - I'd say most of the people on this board would say he's a better coach than Tubby. Tubby would be on the bottom of the conference right now with this squad. Mo would weigh 300, and we wouldn't have Matheui.

Tubby got fired because the AD saw what was ahead. He didn't fire him for going to the tournament. He fired Tubby because he saw Tubby's high water mark and off the charts enthusiasm and it wasn't enough for him. And it wasnm't enough for the fans either.

Good luck to Tubby and good luck to you.
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Thanks bga1. I am not sure what you wish me luck. I am just an average fan of the game. You and I have never agreed on anything here becasue we see things differently. Richard can only hope to be half as good as Tubby after 22 years into this type of job. He has a big last name, that's all. Yes, these days, young coaches are doing well but doing it year in year out, only coaches with experience can do it. I used to think that Painter was a great coach. He has had one recruiting class that helped him win a few games and since then he has been a no-show.

The AD that you mentioned lucked out with one of his hires at VCU and then he thought that every young coach can do it like Smart. You and a few others dominated the site with your love of the fire and the hire. On the recruiting front, next year will be very average at best. I am not sure why you keep insisting that Richard will have his players and then he will win????

He will be a better coach before he leave the U but will never be what you and AD dreamed him to be. Just look at Travis Ford at OSU. He was one of Rick Pitino's students too. He may not have a job next year at such a young age.

If you think that making a player lose weight that Richard said several times it was all Mo who did it, maybe a coach from the biggest loser could be a good coach too????
 

The-Real-Truth said:
I really think that Tubby had a better chance of landing those players. That's over and we are going to stop talking about it. One thing that I don't get it is the love-fest these people have with Richard's style. I am not sure what it is????? Like KYGopher said a few weeks back, Richard is learning on the job. There will be some growing pain. Lets be realistic. A few weeks ago, people were talking about Final Four with the exact same players. Now, they say, lets wait until Richard gets his own players. Some went on and on about how much he has developed Oto, Mo, and EE. These days, they say, we were expected to have noboady at 4. There will be some tough time. Do not try to sugarcoat it. This is what Richard can do at the moment. He will get better for sure but don't make any excuses for him. Stop calling refs anti-Gophers. That would be another excuse.
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Who said Final Four?
 

The-Real-Truth said:
Thanks bga1. I am not sure what you wish me luck. I am just an average fan of the game. You and I have never agreed on anything here becasue we see things differently. Richard can only hope to be half as good as Tubby after 22 years into this type of job. He has a big last name, that's all. Yes, these days, young coaches are doing well but doing it year in year out, only coaches with experience can do it. I used to think that Painter was a great coach. He has had one recruiting class that helped him win a few games and since then he has been a no-show.

The AD that you mentioned lucked out with one of his hires at VCU and then he thought that every young coach can do it like Smart. You and a few others dominated the site with your love of the fire and the hire. On the recruiting front, next year will be very average at best. I am not sure why you keep insisting that Richard will have his players and then he will win????

He will be a better coach before he leave the U but will never be what you and AD dreamed him to be. Just look at Travis Ford at OSU. He was one of Rick Pitino's students too. He may not have a job next year at such a young age.

If you think that making a player lose weight that Richard said several times it was all Mo who did it, maybe a coach from the biggest loser could be a good coach too????
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Norwood also hired Grant at VCU, people forget that VCU was a successful program that knocked off Duke in the tourney before Shaka, lets not pretend Norwood's riding Shaka's coat tails, the B1G a totally different animal than the Colonial, and time will tell if Pitino can bring in the recruits to do it, but as far as basketball goes Norwood and Ellis have track record of finding good coaches and so far Pitino's continuing the trend by performing beyond expectations.
 


bemidjigopher said:
Norwood also hired Grant at VCU, people forget that VCU was a successful program that knocked off Duke in the tourney before Shaka, lets not pretend Norwood's riding Shaka's coat tails, the B1G a totally different animal than the Colonial, and time will tell if Pitino can bring in the recruits to do it, but as far as basketball goes Norwood and Ellis have track record of finding good coaches and so far Pitino's continuing the trend by performing beyond expectations.
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You are right. Also, look what has happened to him at Alabama. Another Young coach????
 


bga1 said:
I'm just recovering from last nights loss- that was a tough one. However as I look at this season so far I have to be very pleased with the future of this program.

Let's face it, this team is not real talented. At the same time if you look at the Big Ten games other than Iowa (where we got clobbered), in our other 5 losses combined the total point spread at the end of regulation was 8 points. We are literally 5 or 6 made shots from being 9-1. Should we be 9-1? No, we should be 4-6 that's what we have earned. But the idea that we have played everybody competitively with the limited club we have is encouraging.

NCAAs look doubtful - although in this crazy year I'm not giving up. We may win 3 or 4 in a row and change everything. Doubtful but possible. Regardless we have these things to be positive about:

1. Mo Walker- who'd have thunk it? Who made him into Al Jefferson?
2. Dre Matheui - again who would have thought a 5-9 kid could come in and have this impact? Yeah he has to clean up the TOs but what a great find.
3. The rebounding- terrible last night. However, coming into the year I thought we would lose the boards by 10 every night. Without a power forward- they have done fine.
4. The Pitino system- would it work in the Big 10? It works and it's working even without the type of players he needs. Wait until he gets the players- and he will.
5. Players are getting better- Mo, Oto, Elliot- all a lot better than last year. McNeil is getting better by the game and will be a defensive stopper for years to come. Joey King is learning when to pass the ball and has made some sweet dishes lately.

The only down side to this year so far is the play of the two Hollins'. If they were having the type of Big Ten year I had hoped for we would have 2-3 more wins minimum. If they get their shots back we are still in for a lot of fun the rest of this year.

I've enjoyed every game this year. The future is bright.
Click to expand...

Your optimism is refreshing, but I cannot stand statements like this.
 

The-Real-Truth said:
I really think that Tubby had a better chance of landing those players. That's over and we are going to stop talking about it. One thing that I don't get it is the love-fest these people have with Richard's style. I am not sure what it is????? Like KYGopher said a few weeks back, Richard is learning on the job. There will be some growing pain. Lets be realistic. A few weeks ago, people were talking about Final Four with the exact same players. Now, they say, lets wait until Richard gets his own players. Some went on and on about how much he has developed Oto, Mo, and EE. These days, they say, we were expected to have noboady at 4. There will be some tough time. Do not try to sugarcoat it. This is what Richard can do at the moment. He will get better for sure but don't make any excuses for him. Stop calling refs anti-Gophers. That would be another excuse.
Click to expand...

Get out from that rock you are living under.

Listen to what the media people that covered the team have to say. Listen to what some former players have to say. Tubby was a fraud.
 

vagopher said:
I've been pleased with overall player improvement, especially Mo.
Click to expand...

They have a big that can score and who they are actually utilizing, start hitting threes again and they will win some games. So refreshing to see a post game again.
 

The-Real-Truth said:
I really think that Tubby had a better chance of landing those players. That's over and we are going to stop talking about it. One thing that I don't get it is the love-fest these people have with Richard's style. I am not sure what it is????? Like KYGopher said a few weeks back, Richard is learning on the job. There will be some growing pain. Lets be realistic. A few weeks ago, people were talking about Final Four with the exact same players. Now, they say, lets wait until Richard gets his own players. Some went on and on about how much he has developed Oto, Mo, and EE. These days, they say, we were expected to have noboady at 4. There will be some tough time. Do not try to sugarcoat it. This is what Richard can do at the moment. He will get better for sure but don't make any excuses for him. Stop calling refs anti-Gophers. That would be another excuse.
Click to expand...

-There's zero evidence that Tubby would have landed any of the Big 3.

-No sane person here ever talked about the Final Four

-It has always been true that we won't know how Pitino's system will work until he gets his own players here. That's not new.

-He has developed Mo, EE and Oto. But Mo and EE don't play the 4. And he's develped Oto from terrible to marginally functional. We still have a black hole at the 4. It would have been at least this bad or worse if Tubby had stayed, as we'd have Alex Foster instead of Joey King. The fact that we have no 4 is all on Tubby with an assist from the NCAA.

-No one who watched the last two games can dispute that we did not get any calls to go our way, and if a couple of them had, we'd have won both games. Usually these things balance out over a season and hopefully they will. But that doesn't mean we can't be upset for getting hosed.
 

The Brain Trust said:
Well if Tubby had struck out on the 4 in state recruits and was in 8th place in the Big Ten the naysayers would be posting a list of coaches to replace him.
Click to expand...

The difference is Pitino is on his way up, Tubby was on his way down.
 

The-Real-Truth said:
If you think that making a player lose weight that Richard said several times it was all Mo who did it, maybe a coach from the biggest loser could be a good coach too????
Click to expand...

I heard Dick Pit on the Jock Itch show say that he told Mo he needed to lose 60 pounds or he wouldn't play and he sicked his trainer on him to do it. So, I guess he's a liar too.
 

The fact is, if Pitino's last name wasn't Pitino, he would be getting crucified right now. As for the longer term, not landing the Big 3 is inexusable. Tubby landed the Big 2 upon his arrival at the U (White and Williams). Pitino, right now, is living off someone else's players. When he gets his full roster, we'll see if rises or falls, like so many young, upstart coaches out there who tend to fizzle out after a while.
 

I no longer see this team as overachieving, in part because the B1G is just not as strong as we thought going in to the season. To me the losses to Northwestern and Purdue cancel out the wins over Wisconsin and tOSU to a large degree. I am not sure many people saw the Gophers being much worse than 4-6 at this point of the season, unless they expected 6-12 or worse. The talent on this team is not great, but we certainly had more talent than Northwestern, Purdue, and Nebraska (I can certainly understand the Nebraska loss for a variety of reasons) and came out of the stretch 0-3. What concerns me slightly is I no longer believe we can say this team is playing hard all the time. For most of the first half of the Northwestern game, I didn't feel like the team played hard and the rebounding totals in the Purdue game speak for themselves. That's said, I much rather be 4-6 with a couple wins that really excited the fan base (Ohio State and Wisconsin) than 4-6 with just wins over perceived bottom feeders.

I am most encouraged by the fact that this team has essentially only been dominated in two half's of basketball all year (Arkansas and Iowa second half's). To me that's where this team has overachieved in keeping every tough game competitive (and also frustratingly, keeping some easier games competitive too).

Hopefully this is just a slump and not a collapse. One of the main things I wanted to see from Coach Pitino in his first year was a team that showed improvement as the season went a long. I don't think the team that's taken the floor the past two weeks or so is better than the team that opened Big Ten play (and yes the Dre Hollins injury accounts for a portion of that).
 

KyGopherfan said:
The fact is, if Pitino's last name wasn't Pitino, he would be getting crucified right now. As for the longer term, not landing the Big 3 is inexusable. Tubby landed the Big 2 upon his arrival at the U (White and Williams). Pitino, right now, is living off someone else's players. When he gets his full roster, we'll see if rises or falls, like so many young, upstart coaches out there who tend to fizzle out after a while.
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I think he should have landed one of the big three, but when Tyus was basically out of the picture and Rashad Vaughn is going to decide between UNLV and Iowa State...he probably only had a shot at Reid (within the rules).

I think everyone will crucify you for the living off someone else's players line, so let me be the first to do it. This team is AWFUL without DeAndre Mathieu. Tubby hasn't had a point guard on the roster since Al Nolen. Mo Walker would still be 300lbs and incapable of running the floor, moving his feet, or staying on the court for five minutes if Tubby was still coaching the Gophers. To act like Tubby would have suddenly issued an ultimatum to Mo after 3 year of showing up out of shape is laughable. There's been noticeable improvement from guys like Elliott, Mo, and Oto where there was little improvement in prior years from the Joe Coleman's and Rodney Williams' (to be fair, neither Austin nor Andre Hollins has improved under Coach Pitino to this point).

This team still has the potential to finish with an awful record (or a respectable one), so the jury is very much out. I don't think Pitino gets crucified by any fan base in the nation for being 4-6 in conference play after taking over a team that finished 8-10 in conference play and graduated two of its top three (or four) players, including the only power forward on the roster.
 


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