Purdue may be down two linebackers vs Hull; PU 3-8 vs NW in last 11; hasn't beat NW at RossAde since 2007

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Some guy said:
Winning a big ten title is more impressive than not winning a big ten title
I have already said im just going to go ahead and disagree with you.


If not winning the title can be more impressive than 2019 MN was more impressive than quite a few big ten titles, like Joe Tiller’s, a couple of Barry Alvarez’

But, it isn’t. We just disagree.


meanwhile that doesn’t even matter to my point. Someone defended Fitzgerald by saying that northwestern would return to being terrible without him. I simply pointed out that the two coaches preceding him achieved more. And you rebutted that they achieved the same amount. Which doesn’t detract from the point I was making.
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In today's Big Ten a team can "win the title" and it means that the team is an undisputed champion. You're comparing apples and oranges by equating teams who could win a split title and teams who can't. It you were trying to make apt comparisons you'd posit that Northwestern in 2018 would have won a split title and thus Fitz accomplished equally to Walker.
 

NW is first and foremost focused on academics as an institution;Stanford has a geographic advantage.

If Pat was ever let go, he’d be scooped up in a heartbeat. When they were rocking and rolling, the Bears IIRC, wanted him big time and he stayed put. I’m sure he could have gone to higher profile programs as well.
He’s easily my second favorite B10 coach, as he’s fine it with glass and maintained his stout square judge LBness.
 

noamfromm said:
In today's Big Ten a team can "win the title" and it means that the team is an undisputed champion. You're comparing apples and oranges by equating teams who could win a split title and teams who can't. It you were trying to make apt comparisons you'd posit that Northwestern in 2018 would have won a split title and thus Fitz accomplished equally to Walker.
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None of what you just said disputes anything I said
 

Gopher_In_NYC said:
NW is first and foremost focused on academics as an institution;Stanford has a geographic advantage.

If Pat was ever let go, he’d be scooped up in a heartbeat. When they were rocking and rolling, the Bears IIRC, wanted him big time and he stayed put. I’m sure he could have gone to higher profile programs as well.
He’s easily my second favorite B10 coach, as he’s fine it with glass and maintained his stout square judge LBness.
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Stanfords advantage is fading fast.

Word has it Stanford doesn’t generally take many transfers at all. In the age of the transfer portal that means players leave, but they can’t easily use the portal to bring them in.
 

gopherbadgerman said:
Fair enough. Personally I think the Gophers would have been extremely fortunate to have a coach of Pats stature anytime over the past 20+ years. I like Fleck but I think Fitz has done more with less.
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In Fitzgerald tenure since kill was hired northwestern has finished
above Minnesota 5 times
Below Minnesota 5 times
Same conference record 1 time

And trending the wrong way.
 




A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Stanfords advantage is fading fast.

Word has it Stanford doesn’t generally take many transfers at all. In the age of the transfer portal that means players leave, but they can’t easily use the portal to bring them in.
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Great point
 

Some guy said:
In Fitzgerald tenure since kill was hired northwestern has finished
above Minnesota 5 times
Below Minnesota 5 times
Same conference record 1 time

And trending the wrong way.
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Yep. Last 11 different than last 20+ years. Don’t disagree. How would you say gophers are trending from the past 10 years or so?
 



gopherbadgerman said:
Yep. Last 11 different than last 20+ years. Don’t disagree. How would you say gophers are trending from the past 10 years or so?
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I would say the gophers are trending up since kill was hired.
I would say they are trending up since Mason was hired.

I would say there was a downward trend from about 2006 to Kill’s first year (2011?)
 

Some guy said:
I would say the gophers are trending up since kill was hired.
I would say they are trending up since Mason was hired.

I would say there was a downward trend from about 2006 to Kill’s first year (2011?)
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That’s fair. I just think the NW highs over past 20 are better than gophers
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Stanfords advantage is fading fast.

Word has it Stanford doesn’t generally take many transfers at all. In the age of the transfer portal that means players leave, but they can’t easily use the portal to bring them in.
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Can't get transfer into the program and maybe worse they can't get their own grads into grad programs and end up losing them to the portal.
 

gopherbadgerman said:
That’s fair. I just think the NW highs over past 20 are better than gophers
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The highest high was lower for northwestern excluding the Covid year, which I do (but understand why others would not).

Including the Covid year northwesterns high was higher

I would agree on the 2-4th best seasons.
Certainly way better if you extend that period to 30 years instead of 20.

Which goes back to my original point. I originally made my point in response to someone who said that if they get rid of Fitzgerald they’ll be terrible like the 80s, and I simply pointed out that last two coaches before Fitzgerald had as much or more success as Fitzgerald. In fact, the last time northwestern had a stretch as bad as the last 3 full seasons under Fitz were Gary Barnett’s first 3 years growing out of the really bad era he was talking about.
That poster was acting like the really bad era was everything pre Fitzgerald.
It is actually everything pre Barnett.
Fitz has them as close to the 1980s as they have been since 1994. And they’re going to be as bad next year.

I didn’t actually need to get into a debate about whether Joe Tiller’s 4 loss big ten title season was better or worse than Fleck’s 11-2
 



Gophers_4life said:
2019 and 2021 being 3-9 was the first time that had happened in his HC career there, with only 4 in his first year and then only 5 twice.

Lot of 6+ wins and bowl games.

This year now is two nasty years in a row.

He can (rightfully) say that the team this year was decimated by injuries.

And NW forever has been at the bottom of the barrel in the conference on facilities. That's just turning around.
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Yes, and he has to be compared to past NW coaches. He has to be considered the most successful Northwestern football coach in history.
 

Purdue would beat Northwestern without any linebackers at all.
 




cjbfbp said:
Yes, and he has to be compared to past NW coaches. He has to be considered the most successful Northwestern football coach in history.
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I don't think there's any chance in hell he gets fired this season, even if they go 1-11.

But here's hoping they knock off Purdue and/or Illinois!! Do em' both! Bang bang, thank you very much!
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Stanfords advantage is fading fast.

Word has it Stanford doesn’t generally take many transfers at all. In the age of the transfer portal that means players leave, but they can’t easily use the portal to bring them in.
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I almost wonder if Stanford and Berkeley would rather give up major scholarship football and become the west coast versions of Harvard and Yale?

If the PAC started to actually disintegrate, I think they'd give some thought to that at least.
 


Some guy said:
The highest high was lower for northwestern excluding the Covid year, which I do (but understand why others would not).
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Their 2018, beating everyone in the West and going 8-1 in conference, and going to Indy, is "lower than" our 2019 year?

That is not an accurate assessment.
 


Gophers_4life said:
Message board fans, no offense, are a special breed and usually represent a small fraction of the fanbase. :cool:
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If you are talking about 29 people on a message board that’s probably 40% of their season ticket holders
 

Gophers_4life said:
Their 2018, beating everyone in the West and going 8-1 in conference, and going to Indy, is "lower than" our 2019 year?

That is not an accurate assessment.
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In my opinion a 5 loss season finishing 21st in the country is worse than a 2 loss season finishing 10th
Especially when they beat 0 of the top 3 teams in the conference

But we can agree to disagree on that
 

Gophers_4life said:
That year didn't count .... for any program that had a bad year. Like the Gophers.

It did count ... for any program that had a good year.

🤷‍♂️
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I don’t think 2020 really counts either way for anyone

Is 2020 a sign that Allen has a great program at Indiana?
Is 2020 a sign that James Franklin should be fired at penn state

Goofy year.
Nice how teams did, but you can’t read much into it either way if you’re being honest with it.
 

I figured your response would be something like that. That is fine.

Fleck has never gone to Indy. He blew his only chance, so far, at home against Wisconsin in spectacular fashion. NW/Fitz got it done.
 

Some guy said:
I don’t think 2020 really counts either way for anyone

Is 2020 a sign that Allen has a great program at Indiana?
Is 2020 a sign that James Franklin should be fired at penn state

Goofy year.
Nice how teams did, but you can’t read much into it either way if you’re being honest with it.
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I largely agree with you.

Just saying that those who happened to do well, do indeed count it.
 

Gophers_4life said:
I figured your response would be something like that. That is fine.

Fleck has never gone to Indy. He blew his only chance, so far, at home against Wisconsin in spectacular fashion. NW/Fitz got it done.
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And I hope he keeps getting it done like he is.
It’s a free win for the foreseeable future
 


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