Yeah, we didn't need Fleck or anyone else to tell us that. We could see that with our own eyes. Those DBs are headhunters and the defensive front is quick and nasty.
"Purdue and Illinois are teams that Minnesota should be beating in year six of the P.J. Fleck era." | Gopherhole
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- Start date
Yeah, we didn't need Fleck or anyone else to tell us that. We could see that with our own eyes. Those DBs are headhunters and the defensive front is quick and nasty.
Illinois has been big ten champ and in a second rose bowl in the last 22 years.
Illinois is an easier program to win at and it’s not close
Agreed. Some people use that phrase "turn a program around" too loosely. Turning a "program" around requires some evidence of success over a period of time with different personnel. Go through coaching records on Sports Reference and one can see that there are numerous coaches who had a good year or two with a program but couldn't sustain that success over a longer time span.
Bielema has assembled a very good group and obviously they have been coached very well. If that group turns over but Illinois continues to be successful, then maybe we can say that the Illinois football program has been turned around.
What does that mean?
True
Gophergrandpa
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Minnesota kids who have dreamed of playing for the Gophers probably don’t need NIL promises to commit or to be discouraged from transferring. We are NIL challenged … currently. More dyed-in the wool Minnesota kids equals roster stability, until we become an NIL beacon to out-of-state kids who are materially better than in-state kids.
Panthadad2
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The Gopher roster for MN kids indicates there could be some room for growth for in-state players too. The Gophers have 26 MN players on their roster. Both WI and IA have almost 50 in-state players. Maybe the HS football in those states is a bit more developed, but you can't convince me that the athletic potential of those players is significantly better. Development is key in this case. Heck, look at what NDSU does with scores of MN kids. MN has more high school football participants than either WI or IA too, even with hockey (hockey is a non-issue for taking college-level football players).
TheNorthernAmir
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Yup. Illinois is a sleeping giant in this NIL era. They have a big, wealthy alumni/donor base and can always tap into the Chicago and St. Louis recruiting areas if they are doing well.
A_Slab_of_Bacon
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Nobody is allowed to get better except us!
Not just those two metros. Champaign is only a bit more than two hours from Indianapolis, about 4 hours from Cincinnati, and not more than 6 hours from Memphis, Nashville, and Kansas City.
GopherWeatherGuy
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Sure, but they also have to compete with Notre Dame, Ohio St, Purdue, Indiana, Northwestern, Cincinnati, Louisville, Missouri, Kansas, K-State, Iowa, Wisconsin, Kentucky, Tennessee, etc in those areas.
And Minnesota has to compete with those schools for guys as well
BRADLEYMICHAEL
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If the Gophers beat Wisconsin and Iowa this year, it will take a lot of the sting out of the Purdue and Illinois losses. The season has a long way to go yet.
Hang tough. There are high points and low points in a season and there are going to be disappointing seasons too. The trend in Minnesota is up under PJ!
Hang tough. There are high points and low points in a season and there are going to be disappointing seasons too. The trend in Minnesota is up under PJ!
This is such a tired line. In year six, blah blah blah. Building a program is NOT linear. There will be ups and downs. And if this year is a down one - sitting at 4-2 with a lot of winnable games ahead, then so be it. This team can still likely go win 8 or 9 games and win a bowl game. That is nothing to shake a stick at here.
Minnesota was unranked to start the season, picked 4th in the west in the Big Ten media poll, and there were a few question marks.
Let's let the season play out before we call it dead. Win the pig and the Axe and go 10-3 or 9-4 with a bowl win. That is not a down season by any standard.
Barry Alvarez went 10-1-and-1 in Year 4, then went 4-5-and-2 in Year 6. God forbid, he lost to both Northwestern and Purdue in Year Six. Of course, he went on to compete in four Rose Bowls after that.
Kirk Ferentz went 11-2 in Year 4, then went 6-7 in Year 8 and then went to an Orange Bowl, a Rose Bowl, and several Jan 1 bowls after that.
Hayden Fry went 9-3 in Year 5, 11-2 in Year 7 and then went 5-6 in Year 11 and coached another nine years after that, including a Rose Bowl trip.
Minnesota was unranked to start the season, picked 4th in the west in the Big Ten media poll, and there were a few question marks.
Let's let the season play out before we call it dead. Win the pig and the Axe and go 10-3 or 9-4 with a bowl win. That is not a down season by any standard.
Barry Alvarez went 10-1-and-1 in Year 4, then went 4-5-and-2 in Year 6. God forbid, he lost to both Northwestern and Purdue in Year Six. Of course, he went on to compete in four Rose Bowls after that.
Kirk Ferentz went 11-2 in Year 4, then went 6-7 in Year 8 and then went to an Orange Bowl, a Rose Bowl, and several Jan 1 bowls after that.
Hayden Fry went 9-3 in Year 5, 11-2 in Year 7 and then went 5-6 in Year 11 and coached another nine years after that, including a Rose Bowl trip.
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RememberMurray
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If Ohio State beats us 90+% of the time, that doesn't bother me because they beat almost everyone 90+% of the time. And, because we're not Ohio State, we don't beat other Big Ten programs 90+% of the time but we certainly hold our own with most of them, even Wisconsin these days. I look at a college football season as 12 (hopefully 13!) games. If there are significantly more good moments than bad moments, I'm generally happy. Of course, quality of the opponent matters. One doesn't get the same satisfaction from beating NM State that one gets from a victory over a more capable conference team.
Gophers_4life
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Could be true, but heck if I know why. Not like they've ever been a powerhouse, so their fanbase is nothing special.
Small farm-town, that is built up a bit around the school. Med school/nursing/medical research is all at UIC (Chicago).
It's a major computer science/STEM nerd school.
Not as cold as MN, but still cold/snow winters.
Can't see why it would be an easy place to recruit to. Wouldn't think they'd have a bunch of major donors or any kind of NIL advantage.
Gophers_4life
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WI and IA kids, other than the blue-chippers, dream of playing for the Badgers and Hawks.
MN kids don't dream of playing for the Gophers.
Blue chips in every state try to cash in and go to big time programs, and often away from home.
Gophers_4life
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Yep.
And if it comes down to an everything else is equal decision between Minnesota and a P5 in a Great Lakes/Midwestern state, we have to fight additionally against the extra distance and the extra cold.
Always going to be a higher barrier to entry for us.
I think the distance is a bigger driver than the cold.
Once you are south and east of Chicago there is a different frame of mind about drive times.
Minnesotan’s concept of drive times is more similar to people in Montana than people in Ohio or Tennessee
6 hours is a huge deal to people. Not to people many in Minnesota though.
Gophers_4life
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10-3 would be better.
I can accept a loss at Penn State, especially if Tanner is out.
Who would be the 4th loss, if we beat Iowa and Wisc? At Nebraska?? Say it ain't so!
Gophers_4life
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Yep.
You think about roughly the geography of Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Nashville, STL, KC, whatever that is maybe roughly 50-100M people, with Chicago as the NW corner .... and then it's another 7hr drive from Chicago to Mpls. (8hrs from STL, 7hrs from KC)
We're out here.
So at least it's nice that we play a bunch closer in to those Big Ten areas in away conf games. But if Mom & Dad want to come to home games, it's a hike or you're flying every time.
Forget about those Midwest schools for a minute and just think of the talent rich south.
Chanpagne IL is only 11 hours from Charlotte
Champagne IL is only 10 hours from Atlanta
Champagne IL is only 9 hours to Birmingham
Champagne IL is only 6 to Nashville
Champagne is 345 to Louisville
Minneapolis is 745 to champagne
Minnesota recruiting a kid from southern Illinois is like Illinois recruiting a kid from Georgia or Alabama
They have a clear recruiting advantage in terms of geography because they are closer to multiple larger metro areas (Chicago, St. Louis, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, and even Nashville, Memphis, and Kansas City (although the last one is similar in distance to Minneapolis)). Not even close to as cold as Minnesota. Even though Illinois has about 12.5 million residents, it has only two P5 schools and not everyone can be admitted to the other one (Northwestern).
Gophers_4life
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Yep, see the above posts.
I know not as cold as MN, who is? Even Iowa and Neb aren't quite as cold. WI is really the only one, I think.
But relatively to the south, any Big Ten school is still going to be cold in winter.
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I think the pandemic in 2020 really affected Minnesota more than most other Big 10 schools. Fleck had Great Momentum coming off of 11-2 in 2019. Had Bateman, Ibrahim, Morgan, OLine, etc coming back. The Big ten was going to play, then wasn't, then was again. Teams were practicing, not practicing, back and forth. Guys were held out because of positive tests. Guys were opting out of playing. Affected EVERY team of course, but it really affected the Gophers because they couldn't build on the previous year's momentum. Were would the team's recruiting, performance, ticket sales and everything else be right now if 2020 was normal and they had gone 10-3 or better?
Live in the now
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Excellent points.
Disagree
Wisconsin and Iowa were top 20 programs in 2019 and now are top 50 programs with Minnesota
The pandemic hurt Minnesota’s ability to take a jump but wrecked some others
GridironGus
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You're right.