"Purdue and Illinois are teams that Minnesota should be beating in year six of the P.J. Fleck era." | Gopherhole

I'm not saying that Illinois will now be a power forever, but Bielema knows how to coach. He's proven far more than someone like Mel Tucker. They will be tough to beat every year now that he's there because he knows how to build offensive lines, great running games, and great defenses.

It should eat at all Gopher fans that a coach who has owned us over his career came in to a program much worse off than Minnesota, and turned them around in only 2 years to where they may win the west the season the Gophers should be the team to win the west. This is the year Iowa/Wisconsin/Northwestern are all down, and they are the only teams to win the west since the division was created 9 years ago.
Oh, it bugs me and is fair criticism of PJ

But Bert didn't recruit chase brown, isiah williams, and I'm sure many others, so he's winning with Lovie recruits so I'm told it doesn't count
 

I think from 2013-2016 this would be true, but the Big Ten landscape changed with the coaching hires. Brohm has made Purdue a competitor and Bielema looks to be doing the same at Illinois.

It's probably how other Big Ten teams in the 90s saw Wisconsin, Minnesota and Purdue over the course of the decade when Alvarez, Mason and Tiller showed up and started improving those programs. It's similar today, the balance of power has shifted a bit.

I think the good thing is Minnesota seems to have a strong coach, while Wisconsin and Nebraska are both looking for new leaders, while Ferentz might not be in charge at Iowa for much longer.

Maybe the west division, or this section of the Big Ten when the new teams are added, will be a competition between Minnesota, Illinois and Purdue.
 

It'll be interesting, Bert is losing Chase Brown and Devito and I don't think they have QB heir apparent on the roster

2023 is our year
 

It'll be interesting, Bert is losing Chase Brown and Devito and I don't think they have QB heir apparent on the roster

2023 is our year
Could be. We are also losing Morgan and Mo though. Who is going to handle the rock next year? I think losing Bucky to the portal was a big blow.
If I were Fleck I would be all over the transfer portal looking for a gamechanging RB. Honestly, where better to play than here for a RB? You are going to get a pile of carries behind some thick meat in front of you.
 

Terrible football and terrible coaching in this state
The question is why? Aren’t we similar to at least Iowa and Wisconsin in terms of demographics? Is it the state’s obsession with hockey?
 


Oh, it bugs me and is fair criticism of PJ

But Bert didn't recruit chase brown, isiah williams, and I'm sure many others, so he's winning with Lovie recruits so I'm told it doesn't count

Lol, I am with you there. But Burt brought in DeVito, Williams was still playing QB when Burt arrived, and Brown really took off post Burt.

It'll be interesting, Bert is losing Chase Brown and Devito and I don't think they have QB heir apparent on the roster

2023 is our year

The Gophers lose a lot heading into next year. I fully expected the Gophers to win the west this year, then likely take a step back and have a rebuilding year next season. Another reason for the frustration of losing the last two weeks.
 

PJ should be beating these programs six years in. He’s not. He hasn’t elevated the program beyond what he inherited. Best season had recruits from both regimes. We don’t seem to be ahead of where the program was the year before he came. Hope they can turn it around the rest of the way.
It's competition and the other programs are trying to do the same as us. Outside of Michigan, tOSU, and PSU the rest of the conference is looking to have our 2019 season as much as possible. To think we are going to dash 60 years of history is crazy thinking. Fleck has us playing in Nationally Televised prime time games and had an 11-2 season followed by 9-4 and we will see what this season ends up being. (Yes, I don't include 2020)
 

Lol, I am with you there. But Burt brought in DeVito, Williams was still playing QB when Burt arrived, and Brown really took off post Burt.



The Gophers lose a lot heading into next year. I fully expected the Gophers to win the west this year, then likely take a step back and have a rebuilding year next season. Another reason for the frustration of losing the last two weeks.
Agreed. West this year and thought next year would like this.

Minnesota sports. I should've known better
 

Could be. We are also losing Morgan and Mo though. Who is going to handle the rock next year? I think losing Bucky to the portal was a big blow.
If I were Fleck I would be all over the transfer portal looking for a gamechanging RB. Honestly, where better to play than here for a RB? You are going to get a pile of carries behind some thick meat in front of you.
Would be nice to have bucky. We probably beat Purdue with him.

I've heard good things on Evans. Promising incoming freshman.
 



The only time they have really struggled this season is when he went down against Iowa early in the game.

Yeah, unlike Iowa, we don't have someone like Jack Campbell that we can count on to disable our opponents' best skill players from time to time. Not that I'm complaining about us not having a player like that but Iowa seems to knock critical skill players out of the game more often than mere coincidence would suggest.
 

Would be nice to have bucky. We probably beat Purdue with him.

Not the way Purdue defended the run and the way our offensive line responded in that game.
 

Not the way Purdue defended the run and the way our offensive line responded in that game.
I think Bucky could've broken a tackle or two or made guy miss. There were opportunities in that game if RB could've done that. None of our RBs did
 

The question is why? Aren’t we similar to at least Iowa and Wisconsin in terms of demographics? Is it the state’s obsession with hockey?
If not the single biggest reason, it's a huge contributing factor. And MN is becoming a pretty good basketball state as well (not that any of those kids go to the U.)

I complain constantly about this as a FB coach, and it goes all the way down to the youth level.

Hockey is king. The associations know it, and they wield their power as such.
"Your tryout slot is at 10 am. Oh, you have a football game. Tough **** - if you want to make the team you'll be there." "You have football practice? Well this hockey clinic is 'optional' but we suggest you be there." And the kid will always choose the other sport over football.

Our youth football association knows it. It pisses them off, and there's virtually nothing they can do. They've told us we can cut playing time if kids miss for other activities, but realistically, the way our teams are set up and the rules in place, that's not easy to do.

The basketball association is much more accommodating as to when they schedule tryouts, start practices, etc. Late summer baseball leagues are a problem as well early in the season.
But ultimately, hockey and basketball are year-round sports now. Football isn't, and as such, it's not a priority for kids as it would have been back in the day.

I know I'm a broken record on this. People point to the concussion issue as the reason for declining football numbers, but I point the finger far more on specialization, and the expectations of those year-round sports programs.
 



I'm so tired of the PJ won with Kill recruits

PJ didn't inherit starting QB,most of the OL, etc. Mo played a valuable role in the 2019 season

There are a couple of posters here who speak as if they are the acclaimed "Oracle" but, on closer inspection, they're actually pretty dopey.
 

It's a fair discussion to have.

Gophers went 11-2, and some people thought that meant the Gophers had moved to a different level.

Now, it seems as if that year might have been a peak, not a plateau.

Doesn't mean that the Gophers can't have another season like that. But it doesn't look like it's happening this season.

Illinois and Purdue are the types of games that Mason or Kill would lose, and fans would complain that the Gophers needed a better coach to "make it to the next level." Apparently, getting to that level is harder than it seems.
Your last paragraph is the story of Gopher football ever since about 1968! At least now, the Gopher program has a great on campus stadium, continues to be a member of the Big Ten Conference that is working hard to continue to provide revenue streams for the conference members and will have a voice in college athletics as long as ANY conference in the nation going into a new and constantly evolving future.

And yes, getting to a top level of the Big Ten Conference always has been: “…harder than it seems…”, as you so aptly stated.
 
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Fleck today says he thinks ILL defense one of the best in the country.

https://247sports.com/college/minne...J-Fleck-Tanner-Morgan-injury-update-195659265

We played one of the best defenses in the country. In fact, I think the number one defense in the country, and they are that good. And so when you get behind the sticks on them, it discourages you to be able to keep going with the pass game because we only had 19 plays in the first half. And you got an All American tailback back there, so you better be able to catch the ball when it's thrown to be able to move efficiently down the field.
 


It'll be interesting, Bert is losing Chase Brown and Devito and I don't think they have QB heir apparent on the roster

2023 is our year
You have lots of faith in the 2023 QB. I think you'll see a significant drop-off in wins next year.
 

Fleck today says he thinks ILL defense one of the best in the country.

https://247sports.com/college/minne...J-Fleck-Tanner-Morgan-injury-update-195659265

We played one of the best defenses in the country. In fact, I think the number one defense in the country, and they are that good. And so when you get behind the sticks on them, it discourages you to be able to keep going with the pass game because we only had 19 plays in the first half. And you got an All American tailback back there, so you better be able to catch the ball when it's thrown to be able to move efficiently down the field.
I mean it is kind of tough to disagree with that. Illinois is #1 or #2 in basically every single defensive category in the Big Ten and up near the top in all those categories nationally as well.
 

Lol, I am with you there. But Burt brought in DeVito, Williams was still playing QB when Burt arrived, and Brown really took off post Burt.



The Gophers lose a lot heading into next year. I fully expected the Gophers to win the west this year, then likely take a step back and have a rebuilding year next season. Another reason for the frustration of losing the last two weeks.
You expected us to win the west before the year began? That certainly wasn’t consensus as many were hemming and hawing about losses on the lines, and our rbs returning from injuries.
 

It’s almost like coaching tenure doesn’t determine which teams will be good, and teams don’t improve year upon year upon year… I mean why can’t NW beat anyone with Fitz in year whatever, why is Iowa’s offense garbage in year whatever? It’s college football, you have instant transfer eligibility now, roster turnover is crazy, it’s ok to have ups and downs, especially when you have no history of maintained dominance. Do we have to break out pitchforks if we ONLY win 8 games for a year? To say Fleck shouldn’t be losing to Illinois and Purdue in year six is silly. Are we supposed to be an unbeatable juggernaut at this point? Those aren’t bad teams, Illinois probably is just more talented. I was disappointed to lose to Purdue as I think we are better than them, but even Saban loses to worse talent sometimes. I think Fleck has taken us up a level if fans are livid about not winning the conference. He’s raised expectations, maybe he’s not quite meeting them at this point, but the bar is higher than before.
 

You expected us to win the west before the year began? That certainly wasn’t consensus as many were hemming and hawing about losses on the lines, and our rbs returning from injuries.

Yes, I still thought this was the Gophers most complete team since Fleck has been here. I thought Wisconsin, Iowa, and Purdue all lost more than the Gophers did. Illinois has been better than I expected.
 

You have lots of faith in the 2023 QB. I think you'll see a significant drop-off in wins next year.
I was mostly kidding. The Minnesota motto wait until next year.

Based on this season going I think we can manage 7-8 wins which sadly won't be a significant drop off
 

It doesn't really matter if Illinois is really good. It matters more that it has potentially taken Bielema only 2 years to turn around a bad program and win the west, something we haven't done in 6 years under Fleck.
He has some pretty decent recruits
 

Hate the helmet punch all you like -- I agree that he wasn't trying to do that, but I also don't think that should be a "well, that's football" .... then change the damn rule, they used to say that about spearing -- but that true freshman Jacas is indeed a very good player already.
 


It'll be interesting, Bert is losing Chase Brown and Devito and I don't think they have QB heir apparent on the roster

2023 is our year
Interesting take considering all the players they are losing. I was thinking they would take a step back and rebuild a little next year. I know everyone is down on Morgan right now but he has been around a long time. Gonna take a little bit to replace him and mo also.
 

Again, that's nonsensical. There's nothing special about "Year 6." There's no reason why Year 6 can't be worse than Year 5 or even Year 3. We have gained ground from where we were before Fleck. Not counting the pandemic year, we've had three straight winning seasons (one with 11 wins and another with 9 wins) and we're likely to make it 4 straight this season. We've won all 3 of our bowls under Fleck and we were underdogs for two of those.

Now, maybe Fleck hasn't upgraded the program to your desired level but he has upgraded the program from where it was in the previous ten years.
Random thoughts: Pretty much agree with the above. The improvement of a program is not linear. There will be ups and downs, even if we are making progress overall. I do however think that what happened in the past does matter in a way (a different question). Some argue that what happened last year or the last 40 years has NO effect on what happens this year. They shout, "The coaches are different, the players are different, what happened in the past has not effect on what happens this year." Maybe that's true in theory, but why does Ohio State beat us all the time (well, 90+% of the time)? Because they have better players than us every year. So even if we are getting better, we will still almost certainly lose to Ohio State, and sometimes to Purdue and Illinois.
 

Yes, I still thought this was the Gophers most complete team since Fleck has been here. I thought Wisconsin, Iowa, and Purdue all lost more than the Gophers did. Illinois has been better than I expected.

It only looked that way after the first four games.
 

I've heard good things on Evans. Promising incoming freshman.

He looked good in the spring game.

We might have two very good true freshmen running backs next year as well. We'll see.
 




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