Prep Bowl Thread.....

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Art Vandelay said:
Minnesota HS football is just so bad. Championship game and it's 6-3 in the 4th quarter. The offenses look so vanilla and slow developing. Wayzata had the ball just before halftime and completed a pass to midfield. Instead of using their last TO with about 8 seconds left and maybe throwing a hail mary, they just let the clock run out.

Is there a single D-I player on the field?
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does that mean lsu/Alabama are bad also?
 

AO54 said:
Watch the tape of the semifinals then. 49-7 EP and 42-0 Wayzata, plenty of offense for your great football mind to comprehend.
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Yawn. Still does nothing for me. Just shows how much worse those other teams were, and yes I realize of them was Cretin. Down year for da Raiders.....
 


I'm a little tired of watching these Wayzata kids tackle up high so often. Guess I'm too old school.
 

Art Vandelay said:
Yawn. Still does nothing for me. Just shows how much worse those other teams were, and yes I realize of them was Cretin. Down year for da Raiders.....
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It wasn't a down year for the Raiders. It wasn't one of our best, but certainly not a down year. We just ran into a REALLY good Wayzata defense.

Both of these teams are filled with good players and it's one of the best years of MN HS football in recent memory.

It might be ugly, but don't confuse that with lack of talent.
 




This is pure comedy. First there's the blown call on the dual possession INT in the 1st half. Then Wayzata forgets they had a TO left before halftime. Then the refs blow another call late when the Wayzata WR dropped a long pass right before the INT in the endzone.

However, my favorite was Mike Grant. They convert a trick play on 4th and 14 and have the ball 1st and goal from the 5. Grant calls a TO after letting the clock run down - which makes sense. Then coming out of that TO almost the entire OL false starts backing them up 5 yards to the 10. Then you see Grant on the sidelines adamantly telling the refs the clock should be running almost as if he told his players to false start on purpose because they think the clock runs after penalty AND AFTER A TIMEOUT!

Oh, and what's up with the automatic touchback when a kickoff goes into the endzone?!?!

You can't make that up :cool02:
 

theTurning said:
Then you should stop watching football.
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You're entitled to your opinion. You're wrong, of course.

There isn't a starter on the Wayzata defense who couldn't play D3 football. Some of them might choose not to, some of them might play a different sport, but they could all play in the MIAC. Some of them wouldn't be ready right away, but most of them would. Then you have a handful of kids who are already considerably better than D3 kids.
 



What about Larson as a safety prospect at the D1 level?
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
You're entitled to your opinion. You're wrong, of course.

There isn't a starter on the Wayzata defense who couldn't play D3 football. Some of them might choose not to, some of them might play a different sport, but they could all play in the MIAC. Some of them wouldn't be ready right away, but most of them would. Then you have a handful of kids who are already considerably better than D3 kids.
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The kids that actually play, even for middling teams like St Olaf, were All-Conference, All-Region, All-State.

An average MIAC offense, say St John's this year, would score 100 points on 1000 yards of offense on Wayzata's starters.
 

theTurning said:
The kids that actually play, even for middling teams like St Olaf, were All-Conference, All-Region, All-State.

An average MIAC offense, say St John's this year, would score 100 points on 1000 yards of offense on Wayzata's starters.
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I don't mean this in an insulting way, but I don't think you've spent much time around a big time HS program. My highschool put a lot of kids at St. Thomas and St. Johns, and there wasn't a starter on our team who wouldn't have played at those schools. It's just a fact. Those places are where are less talented starters played (if they wanted to play), and St. Thomas an St. Johns usually got more talented kids than the rest of the MIAC.

There are good players who play D3 football, but they aren't elite. There are a handful of Wayzata players who would never go to St. Johns, because they are TOO good for D3.
 




theTurning said:
The kids that actually play, even for middling teams like St Olaf, were All-Conference, All-Region, All-State.
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Like St. Olaf's best player, Wes Lynch? He is a heck of a football player, but he was All Conference Honorable Mention at Apple Valley.
 

Bob, please tell me you're not saying Wayzata's defense right now (16, 17, 18 year-olds) is better than most DIII defenses. If this is in fact what you are saying, I appreciate your opinions, but I'm sorry, you are most definitely wrong on this one.
 

theTurning said:
hahaha you have no idea.
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Let me guess, you're a small town guy who the best player in your hometown might get a D3 offer every 3-4 years? I'm not ripping on that, it just gives a different perspective of HS football.

The best kids on Wayzata are better than the best kids at St. Olaf. Either that's true, or you think every single coach in the country who can give a scholarship to play football is wrong. Because there will be a handful of Wayzata kids who go D2 (D2 teams would KILL St. Olaf), a couple who go FCS (again, would KILL St. Olaf), and a couple of them are going to be borderline BCS athletes.
 

TCF=UnitedWeStand said:
Bob, please tell me you're not saying Wayzata's defense right now (16, 17, 18 year-olds) is better than most DIII defenses. If this is in fact what you are saying, I appreciate your opinions, but I'm sorry, you are most definitely wrong on this one.
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That's ok, we can agree to disagree. I think there are a handful of kids at Wayzata would be starters the second they walked onto the campus at St. Olaf. There are some kids who would need some time to develop, but there are also a couple kids that are more talented than anyone on those teams. Antonio Ford would be all MIAC next season. Chris Wipson (who is a JR), would be one of the better players on St. Olaf next year. Ben Lauer would be the best OL for St. Olaf, next season. Mitch Underhill (if healthy) would play next season. The QB is going to get a scholarship somewhere (D2 or FCS).

These really good teams end up with 10-15 players who are All conference or All conference Hon Mention, in the best conferences in the state. They are stocked full of college level talent. Granted, some of them are going to need to fill out to be able to play in the MIAC. However, there are a certain percentage of them who could absolutely play in the MIAC, at an extremely high level, right away. When they fill out, they will be REALLY good FCS, D2 and D1 football players. Their talent level is simply much higher than anyone in the MIAC.
 

Wayzata vs hamline would be a close game. Wayzata vs a decent d3 team would not be a good game.


I do think this game is an indictment of minnesota HS football. Not the low score, but the fact that such vanilla offensive teams are so far separated from the rest of the state. Eden prairie has a couple of guys who are d1 caliber prospects. But the fact they literally have no passing game and have a run game that d coordinators in both the old lake and new lake can call the plays before they happen yet they still easily make the state title speaks about how little talent there is in the rest of the state.

Eden prairie literally does nothing offensively. And there are only about 1-5 teams in the state that could stay within 10. That tells me there isn't much talent in the state.

It's not the low score, it's the fact that they are so vanilla.
 

Wayzata or Eden prairie could only beat mid level d3 schools if you assume no one gets better in college.
No doubt wayzatas starters could beat St Olafs starters if St Olafs starters were as good as they were when they were high school seniors. But they get much better.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Let me guess, you're a small town guy who the best player in your hometown might get a D3 offer every 3-4 years? I'm not ripping on that, it just gives a different perspective of HS football.

The best kids on Wayzata are better than the best kids at St. Olaf. Either that's true, or you think every single coach in the country who can give a scholarship to play football is wrong. Because there will be a handful of Wayzata kids who go D2 (D2 teams would KILL St. Olaf), a couple who go FCS (again, would KILL St. Olaf), and a couple of them are going to be borderline BCS athletes.
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Bob,

I like your insight about the MN players, but you are very wrong on this one. Any MIAC team would destroy Wayzata and would leave Wayzata kids seriously hurt. College starters are men, not talented boys. The game would not even be close.

I compare this to when people say Alabama would beat the Miami Dolphins. They wouldn't, and it wouldn't even be close.
 

EP and Wayzata could compete with many teams in the UMAC, but not the MIAC. The MIAC is a top 3 conference in the country. I attend HS and MIAC games on a weekly basis and Wayzata and EP don't have the depth or strength to compete with guys that are 21 and 22 years old. The best team in the UMAC, who was undefeated, got beat 48-2 by St. Thomas last week.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
EP and Wayzata could compete with many teams in the UMAC, but not the MIAC. The MIAC is a top 3 conference in the country. I attend HS and MIAC games on a weekly basis and Wayzata and EP don't have the depth or strength to compete with guys that are 21 and 22 years old. The best team in the UMAC, who was undefeated, got beat 48-2 by St. Thomas last week.
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and St. John's was beat by St. Thomas 63-7...so...
 

I think Bob is partially correct.

If you gave Wayzata players 3-4 years to develop, I think they would be a very good D3 football team. I played D3 football and now teach at a D3 college (in the legendary UW system no less). Most guys who play do it because they simply love to play football and don't want to stop after high school. Many of them weren't even particularly good in high school (I wasn't)

Now, could Wayzata beat them now with a 4 year age gap? I find that very hard to believe.
 

I wasn't impressed at all with the offenses. I thought Ford was the best offensive player on the field and he's extremely strong for a high school player but he lacked a burst. Larson has a totally different style and is an extremely patient runner, but he also lacks a burst.

I had to laugh a bit when Dave Lee was saying the Wayzata QB was going to play D-1. Nice athlete with a great arm who hasn't been playing that long, but I didn't see D-1.

Good close game though. Hard fought and the kids seemed to be very well coached.

But I will say this, if I were the ref and Brad Anderson put his arm around me to be a bit emphatic, I would have told him I could hear him quite well and if he didn't remove his hand from my shoulder, yellow would have flown. Can't believe how much refs let coaches get away with these days and we wonder why things often get chippy.

As for how these kids will do in the future. Many will play at the next level. Some will do well and others will do poorly. There are a lot of high school kids who are fully developed by age 18 and simply don't get any better physically. But my guess is a lot of these kids will be playing college football. Could they beat Hamline right now? Probably not.
 

Anderson and grant are the worst in the state when dealing with officials. They whine all game that the other team is illegal and then one flag on them and they flip out. All this while they are usually up 20 points. Though I'll say Anderson is more liked in the coaching community than grant.
 

enough with the D3 vs HS thread, back to the prep bowl.

Does anyone like this current setup? I sure dont, some of the luster is gone without all the games on 1 day, instead of spreading them out, ridiculous if you ask me.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Let me guess, you're a small town guy who the best player in your hometown might get a D3 offer every 3-4 years? I'm not ripping on that, it just gives a different perspective of HS football.
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Well now your are just being ridiculous, We had 4 guys from my class (1A ball) play D3/D2 Ball. I would say about 2 a year on average play d3 ball.
 

lakesbison said:
enough with the D3 vs HS thread, back to the prep bowl.

Does anyone like this current setup? I sure dont, some of the luster is gone without all the games on 1 day, instead of spreading them out, ridiculous if you ask me.
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Playing at 10:00 AM is bad enough - having to be ready to play a state championship game at 8:00 AM was a joke.
 

lakesbison said:
enough with the D3 vs HS thread, back to the prep bowl.

Does anyone like this current setup? I sure dont, some of the luster is gone without all the games on 1 day, instead of spreading them out, ridiculous if you ask me.
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Was thinking just the opposite. Went with a friend last night and we both felt it was nice not going to a game that started 1-2 hours later than scheduled. What time did the 9-man game used to start? 8am?
 

Instead of having the top class be 32 teams they should have had the top class be about 8 teams.
 

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