Postgame thread Michigan St

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yea also cosigned on the hype for washington/harris - isiah can flat out score and will provide plenty of points off the bench for the 2nd unit
 

also, what we did to sparty early would break the spirit of a lot of teams who aren't coached by a future HOF'er (and consensus top 3-5 coach in the game right now)

tip your hat to izzo and move on to the next one, we got a tough game versus purdue coming up
 

SelectionSunday said:
Already conceding to "next season"? That's a cop-out. Way too early for that.

This team has a chance to be good now (this season). Last night was a crushing loss, it still stings the next morning, but the Gophers can recover. Izzo said this is the most talented Minnesota team he's seen in a long time. I'll trust his judgment (he also said the next step for Gophers is learning how to close out games, also true)

Gophers need to suck it up, move on from last night, and somehow accomplish at least a split on the West Lafayette-Evanston road swing. Two worthy opponents, but the Gophers have the talent to do it. What they need to find is end-game toughness. Real men win on the road in hostile environments, as MSU did last night.

If the Gophers are 4-5 at the turn of the B1G, they'll be in great shape heading into the second half. The key is to make sure they're no worse than 3-6, which is very possible. There's a lot more potential wins on the back end of the schedule.
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I would agree. They will adjust and play better as the season continues. Needed to take better shots last night but continually let m state force them into bad shots. Just keep working and quit dorcing things and would immediately be better.
 

The Gophers played poorly last night and still only lost by 1 in OT to Michigan St. Even when they were up by 15, they weren't playing well, they were just getting fouled and making their free throws.

It's a frustrating loss, and one they should have won. But it's not the end of the season or the tournament discussion. It's one loss.
 

bga1 said:
This team is about where the 95-96 team was. That team started 2-5 in conference and ended the season strong when Bobby Jackson started to grow into his role, with a 10-8 conference record- got left out and won the NIT. The next year we were Final Four material. Missing right now is the Jackson type player that puts the team on his back when it's time to win a game. Lynch could well be John Thomas by next year. Murphy is a nice Courtney James type player. Coffey is Sam. Mason is a better version of Harris but not yet on defense.

This team will be fun this year and very, very good next year. I have suffered through years upon years of this, so I plan to enjoy it...even after last night's disappointing finish.
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Good take, bga1.

I expect this team will grow up by the end of the season. Will it be good enough for a chance to play in the Dance? That's hard to say. Will this team compete in nearly every game? I expect that no B1G coach will look forward to the Gophers. That's a good first step forward.
 



Oh my. A lot of toxicity in this thread.

Its freaking Tom Izzo. MSU could've been winless coming into that game, and I would've still been nervous. I figured after all these years, people would've learned not to count them out. Guess not.
 

Fun game. Sad result. We had them on the ropes and let them crawl back. Ultimately, the foul trouble to our big men was what did us in IMO. Curry defending Ward was a disaster. Among other things offensively, putting Curry on Ward in the 2nd half lost us the game. I would have liked to see Murphy in that spot instead. Konate's defense down the stretch with 4 fouls was outstanding. He singlehandedly kept us in the game with his defense on Ward. If Konate and Lynch were not in foul trouble, there is not a doubt in my mind that we win that game comfortably.

I hope Bakary can build off of this game and develop into a solid backup B1G center next year. Something we are sorely lacking right now.
 

This thread is so Minnesota. You could hear the fans groan and moan as MSU came out and went on a run. I wonder why the players consistently lose confidence as other teams punch us in the mouth. Not blaming the fans at all, just stating we as a fanbase all said "here it goes again" and so did the players. Gotta break that cycle, and if Nate hits that pull up 3, or knocks down that floater, or if DuPree clutches up on those FT's that might have been enough.

We're that close.

Losing a 13 point lead to an Izzo team... That's going to happen, they run and they gun and you can say they were short-handed, their short-handed is our full stocked at this point in the program.

Those of you jumping off the bandwagon already, deuces, I'm glad you came on board, you'll be back.

We'll get beat up pretty bad by Purdue, and some more of you will leave. But pretty consistently Pitino has had teams playing better at the end of the year, and I don't expect that to change. We still might make the NCAA, and we still might make the NIT, but if you asked any fan/pundit, that was the ceiling of expectations at the beginning of the season so why is it "the sky is falling" if we don't hit the ceiling?
 



TruthSeeker said:
This team will be borderline NIT, a good coach would have this team in the tournament.

Failing to take advantage of the Spartans' 4 guard lineup by posting Murphy or Coffey consistently was just flat out terrible coaching. So was the way we defended Ward. Lil' Ricky can talk a game, but he cannot coach one.

This will be another long Big Ten season.
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I'm afraid this is spot on, along with posting Murphy or Coffey you need Springs to keep the double teaming honest. He has no clue whatsoever on defending the post, they better start working on it because that is all they are going to see going forward.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Already conceding to "next season"? That's a cop-out. Way too early for that.

This team has a chance to be good now (this season). Last night was a crushing loss, it still stings the next morning, but the Gophers can recover. Izzo said this is the most talented Minnesota team he's seen in a long time. I'll trust his judgment (he also said the next step for Gophers is learning how to close out games, also true)

Gophers need to suck it up, move on from last night, and somehow accomplish at least a split on the West Lafayette-Evanston road swing. Two worthy opponents, but the Gophers have the talent to do it. What they need to find is end-game toughness. Real men win on the road in hostile environments, as MSU did last night.

If the Gophers are 4-5 at the turn of the B1G, they'll be in great shape heading into the second half. The key is to make sure they're no worse than 3-6, which is very possible. There's a lot more potential wins on the back end of the schedule.
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Real men? Over simplified imo

Talent and experience. Msu is talented even without those that didn't play. More talented than gophers. Just look at the big kid in the middle.
 

BarnBurner said:
Real men? Over simplified imo

Talent and experience. Msu is talented even without those that didn't play. More talented than gophers. Just look at the big kid in the middle.
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Of course they're talented, but you do realize Sparty played 3 freshmen and 2 sophomores? And a former walk-on senior (Van Dyk) that has no business being in their rotation. Last night was a golden opportunity for the Gophers vs. a depleted MSU squad, and they didn't step on their throat. Can't do that vs. a program that knows how to win like MSU does.

Gophers have good players now. Let's get comfortable with that and expect them to beat good teams! Izzo was dead on in the post-game, paraphrasing, this is Gophers best team in quite some time, but they have to learn how to close out games.
 

No matter how frustrated I am with last nights loss.. I still love Izzo.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BOkSFwehmk7/

Also read the whiteboard to see what their halftime adjustments are.

Complete with players effective shooting areas, FT% for target fouls.. And key takeaways:

1. Drive left will play some 4
2. Throws elbows, looks to wedge
3. Aggressive to glass
4. Give up 3 in favor for center.
 



Bad loss not because Michigan State is a bad team but because we were in control and let them back into the game and eventually let the win slip away. This team will learn from this loss and continue to get better. Real tough game coming up at Purdue but if this team plays like they can they will have a chance to win at the end. Still fully believe this team is capable of making the NCAA tournament.
 

BarnBurner said:
Real men? Over simplified imo

Talent and experience. Msu is talented even without those that didn't play. More talented than gophers. Just look at the big kid in the middle.
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Yes, real men. According to Izzo, he challenged them as men at halftime including playing the "how do you think your family likes how passively you're playing" card. Men or women, the whole idea is building the mental toughness that you'll need as adults as well as taking on the team's success as a personal responsibility rather than passing the problem off as being someone else or the coaches' fault.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Of course they're talented, but you do realize Sparty played 3 freshmen and 2 sophomores? And a former walk-on senior (Van Dyk) that has no business being in their rotation. Last night was a golden opportunity for the Gophers vs. a depleted MSU squad, and they didn't step on their throat. Can't do that vs. a program that knows how to win like MSU does.

Gophers have good players now. Let's get comfortable with that and expect them to beat good teams! Izzo was dead on in the post-game, paraphrasing, this is Gophers best team in quite some time, but they have to learn how to close out games.
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I realize it well thanks. Of course they need to close out games and it would help having players as good as the big kid ward.

Best in some time? Sure. Think about that for a moment.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Yes, real men. According to Izzo, he challenged them as men at halftime including playing the "how do you think your family likes how passively you're playing" card. Men or women, the whole idea is building the mental toughness that you'll need as adults as well as taking on the team's success as a personal responsibility rather than passing the problem off as being someone else or the coaches' fault.
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We disagree on the definition of a real man.
 

Gophers09 said:
Obviously hurt that Reggie fouls out in 11 minutes, especially with MSU being so thin up front. That is not good and we're going be in an uphill battle vs average or above BT teams when that happens. I agree on posting against the 4 guards, we posted Murphy a couple times who basically just uses strength and quickness (and struggles at the line). I'd have liked to see Coffey in the post given what I've seen and the position MSU was in.
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Congrats on 1000 posts! I don't think that I've ever seen a 1000th post.

I agree Lynch fouling out hurts, but he is going to do it again, if Murphy doesn't do it as well. Have to adjust to that happening. This is still a deep or at least a decent team size-and athleticly skilled wise, especially compared to last year
 

My biggest complaint is the end-game situations. clock running down in regulation - Coffey basically goes on an iso and tries to create something by himself. end of OT - Mason goes on an iso and tries to create something by himself. How about actually running a play - reversing the ball - make the defense move and try to find an open player? I don't think the Gophs handled either situation very well.

Best case scenario - this serves as a learning experience - and they learn what to do - and what not to do - the next time around.

Worst case scenario - they don't learn anything from it and keep making the same mistakes. That was last year's team. A few more B1G games will possibly show us whether this year's team is truly different - or same as it ever was.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
My biggest complaint is the end-game situations. clock running down in regulation - Coffey basically goes on an iso and tries to create something by himself. end of OT - Mason goes on an iso and tries to create something by himself. How about actually running a play - reversing the ball - make the defense move and try to find an open player? I don't think the Gophs handled either situation very well.

Best case scenario - this serves as a learning experience - and they learn what to do - and what not to do - the next time around.

Worst case scenario - they don't learn anything from it and keep making the same mistakes. That was last year's team. A few more B1G games will possibly show us whether this year's team is truly different - or same as it ever was.
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Agreed. How do you not have a go-to play for just that situation? Both possessions were ugly, and completely reminiscent of every ugly close-game finale the Gophers have taken for approximately the past decade of seasons (or more).
 

cncmin said:
Agreed. How do you not have a go-to play for just that situation? Both possessions were ugly, and completely reminiscent of every ugly close-game finale the Gophers have taken for approximately the past decade of seasons (or more).
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Your analysis if right, is there some a University conspiracy to not have a go-to play born out over the past decade?
 

cncmin said:
Agreed. How do you not have a go-to play for just that situation? Both possessions were ugly, and completely reminiscent of every ugly close-game finale the Gophers have taken for approximately the past decade of seasons (or more).
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ISO is what almost all teams run in late game situations with 10+ seconds. We don't have a spot up shooter, our best option is go to the rack, get a make, get a put back or get a foul.

Be mad at the execution of the ISO set, not the ISO itself.
 

Winasota Gopher said:
ISO is what almost all teams run in late game situations with 10+ seconds. We don't have a spot up shooter, our best option is go to the rack, get a make, get a put back or get a foul.

Be mad at the execution of the ISO set, not the ISO itself.
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I'm fine with letting the last possession in OT go. Wasn't much time there. Thought we should have called timeout on the last possession of regulation. Plenty of time there. Izzo micromanagaed the hell out of those last couple minutes of regulation and OT, while Pitino chose to let his guys go. As a result, the Spartans largely got the ball in the exact situations they wanted. That's why to me the difference was coaching. Izzo is a HOF coach, so it's not necessarily a knock on Pitino, but it is a situation I hope is handled differently in the future.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
My biggest complaint is the end-game situations. clock running down in regulation - Coffey basically goes on an iso and tries to create something by himself. end of OT - Mason goes on an iso and tries to create something by himself. How about actually running a play - reversing the ball - make the defense move and try to find an open player? I don't think the Gophs handled either situation very well.

Best case scenario - this serves as a learning experience - and they learn what to do - and what not to do - the next time around.

Worst case scenario - they don't learn anything from it and keep making the same mistakes. That was last year's team. A few more B1G games will possibly show us whether this year's team is truly different - or same as it ever was.
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Coaching.....imagine that.


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nukedwedges said:
Coaching.....imagine that.


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I'd say these guys have been very well coached this year. End of game plays usually end up being a guy that makes a play. When Clem was here that was the way it was, and when he had a Willie Burton, Mel Newbern, Vo Leonard or Bobby Jackson on the team, those plays got made and games were won. When he didn't games didn't often end as well. We don't have that guy right now. Mason is a really good player but I have not yet seen him hit one of those daggers at the end. He may still do that in games to come. I think McBrayer or Coffey or both might become that type of guy that makes it happen.
 

bga1 said:
I'd say these guys have been very well coached this year. End of game plays usually end up being a guy that makes a play. When Clem was here that was the way it was, and when he had a Willie Burton, Mel Newbern, Vo Leonard or Bobby Jackson on the team, those plays got made and games were won. When he didn't games didn't often end as well. We don't have that guy right now. Mason is a really good player but I have not yet seen him hit one of those daggers at the end. He may still do that in games to come. I think McBrayer or Coffey or both might become that type of guy that makes it happen.
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I want the ball in a kids hands that actually has a chance - it was there at the end of regulation. What a great opportunity for a coach to call a time out, look that same kid in the eye, and tell him he will make it this time. Then run a set that gives him a good look. That is the coaching I am talking about. Put them in a situation so they have a plan. Then allow their athleticism to come out.


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cncmin said:
Agreed. How do you not have a go-to play for just that situation? Both possessions were ugly, and completely reminiscent of every ugly close-game finale the Gophers have taken for approximately the past decade of seasons (or more).
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In my opinion based on observations over 3 years, the reason they don't call time out or design a play is because Coach Pitino has no idea what to do and he knows the players won't do it anyways. That ISO stuff is ridiculous and a cop out. 7 times out of ten it ends up in a forced/bad shot. 9 times out of ten it's begun way too late leaving no time for follow up shots. You want a high % plan, then pass the ball furiously, set some double picks, and plan to look for the least likely go-to guy down by the basket. Decent chance he'll be open. This last second ISO crap is further evidence of the major decline in basketball coaching all around the country and the dumbing down of the game. That also applies to the Harlem Globetrotter crap lots of teams now run up top. The weave. It's so pointless and accomplishes nothing. Now that I've thrown up all over this thread, let me say how much I love this team. Just wish they had a really strong X's and O's guy on staff.
 

DoubleAlum said:
In my opinion based on observations over 3 years, the reason they don't call time out or design a play is because Coach Pitino has no idea what to do and he knows the players won't do it anyways. That ISO stuff is ridiculous and a cop out. 7 times out of ten it ends up in a forced/bad shot. 9 times out of ten it's begun way too late leaving no time for follow up shots. You want a high % plan, then pass the ball furiously, set some double picks, and plan to look for the least likely go-to guy down by the basket. Decent chance he'll be open. This last second ISO crap is further evidence of the major decline in basketball coaching all around the country and the dumbing down of the game. That also applies to the Harlem Globetrotter crap lots of teams now run up top. The weave. It's so pointless and accomplishes nothing. Now that I've thrown up all over this thread, let me say how much I love this team. Just wish they had a really strong X's and O's guy on staff.
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This is statistically unproven.

Running set plays works in a lot of situations but a player just needs to make a play one way or another.
 

You guys are crazy, this isn't 8th-grade basketball, you can't run "computer blue" and hope the other team is thinking about daffodils.

In those situations there is a TON of coaching, I wouldn't be surprised if they end every practice with late game situational work. Pitino has repeatedly stated he has trust and thinks our strongest facet is our quickness with the ball and thinks our guards can breakdown most other teams defenders. He went with what he felt was the best situation, the team didn't look puzzled, didn't appear out of sorts, they just didn't execute plain and simple.

If Pitino call's a time out with those 10 seconds left on the Coffey iso, what do you think Izzo is doing in that huddle? Twiddling his thumbs? The variables EXPONENTIALLY grow in a late game situation if you give the other team 60 seconds to think about a defensive strategy. He liked the matchups, and let it ride.

Again, I don't fault the call because I have no clue just like none of you. I fault the execution and you can make a lot of assumptions on the cause of that, I don't align with poor coaching, there are too many things pointing the other way for that to make sense.
 

DoubleAlum said:
In my opinion based on observations over 3 years, the reason they don't call time out or design a play is because Coach Pitino has no idea what to do and he knows the players won't do it anyways. That ISO stuff is ridiculous and a cop out. 7 times out of ten it ends up in a forced/bad shot. 9 times out of ten it's begun way too late leaving no time for follow up shots. You want a high % plan, then pass the ball furiously, set some double picks, and plan to look for the least likely go-to guy down by the basket. Decent chance he'll be open. This last second ISO crap is further evidence of the major decline in basketball coaching all around the country and the dumbing down of the game. That also applies to the Harlem Globetrotter crap lots of teams now run up top. The weave. It's so pointless and accomplishes nothing. Now that I've thrown up all over this thread, let me say how much I love this team. Just wish they had a really strong X's and O's guy on staff.
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Izzo runs the weave a lot...
 

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