Post Game Thread: Gophers Lose Floyd After Embarrassing 2nd Half

that would require coyle to fire him, which certainly seems unlikely
Well, Iowa and Wisconsin have a proven track record of regional dominance over us. Recruiting will be more difficult. It's a matter of when do you want to start to turn the ship around? When it's closer to the iceberg or now when you have more room?
 


I would have switched to 5 Defensive lineman and 4lb. Why play safeties against a team that can’t pass to a wr.? Have to try something. NFL loaded the box with big boys against Tebow? Seemed to be worth a shot.?
 

Brutal second half. Iowa has a great running back running behind a dominant line, misdirection and guy bites or over pursues for a split second and it’s off to the races with a runner like that.

Time will tell if Iowa is just getting better as they typically do as the season goes on and/or MN just isn’t as good as we thought. I think a little bit of both. Kirk and Parker just seem to have PJ zeroed.

Good to see MN at least try to develop the pass game but this is years too late to reverse the slide in recruiting in that area. The run game is anemic. Keep working on it and good things may happen.

PJ isn’t going anywhere, despite the ugly game. By the end of the year the momentum towards axing him next year could be at a fever pitch if he flops down the stretch versus a pretty tough slate. It’s going to be a new landscape going forward and PJ’s strengths aren’t as necessary in a pro football world.
 

What say you GopherHoler's?!
It’s one bad thing to let a trophy game rival kick your rear at home before a sell-out and something of a national tv audience. It’s about thing to coach in a buffoonish manner: down ten with 30 seconds to play into the wind before the end of the 3rd quarter. The sensible coach runs the ball to end the quarter knowing you have 2nd & 3rd down with the wind to try to re-establish momentum. The three plays of the possession were a total embarrassment.
 


I hate to say I told you all so, but I told you all so. PJ sucks relative to all things game day. Always has, always will.
 


4 total offensive yards in the third quarter. Every time Iowa got to the edge or broke a tackle they were out the gate on an explosive play. It's not like they ever do anything different running the counter trey or inside trap, and power off tackle. # 2 is a good running back, good at angles and running through tackles. We had to know Iowa was gonna run run run the ball all second half and play angry because they couldn't pass protect worth a darn. Our linebackers need to tackle better. None of the young defensive backs tackled worth a darn in second half. Defensive ends did a poor job setting the edge and staying in front of the back to string to Saftey's and linebackers overpursued the fakes to much. I think we all can see how good a tackler Justin Walley is now. Our Oline is large but they are not quick or athletic off the ball and give up to much pressure. Dont unterstand why we never pull the guards on a toss sweep. If you can''t do that you shouldnt be a guard. They should take it personal as veterans on the Oline that they are getting beat at left guard and right tackle a lot. The Oline is not playing to a Big 10 standard right now, not even past Gopher standards.
They need to open up competition at Oline get people's attention. Iowa runs the same damn shifts and stunts up front, it's on film you should be able to adjust. How about some creativity with a lead back like Lecpatain at full back so we get an extra lead blocker at the line of scrimmage or from the Hback like what Kieft used to do. #88 seemed like he got dinged up tonight. We are too small on the Dline, not enough length, need to rotate and keep guys fresher up front. #0 should be allowed to play in space more, like a moving rover. Don't understand how you play with such great energy and emotion in first half, and then lose the intensity and come out so flat to start the second half, flat footed, low energy and slow to react to tempo.
 
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Lack of discipline on offense especially with all the false starts. These typa games are won in the trenches, and we lost in that department.
I don’t think our guys moved at all. I thought both those fall starts were absolutely horrendous calls but then again I was at the game so it’s sometimes hard to tell.
 



Fleck isn’t getting fired anytime soon.

Only way out of this in the next few seasons is if Fleck bolts for another job which eventually he might if his firing is inevitable.
Bolts for what job?
Anyway your two sentences don’t make much sense when read together
 

I don’t think our guys moved at all. I thought both those fall starts were absolutely horrendous calls but then again I was at the game so it’s sometimes hard to tell.
Yeah I agree. Just don't want to get into the whole "blame it on the refs" angle. We should have been better. Sucks that we are bout to go on a 0-3 stretch here. Can't we keep at least one trophy to visit at the state fair?
 

Unless Coyle is magically generating a ton of income for the athletic department he can go, too.
Iowa is better in every sport I care about: Football, Baseball, Wrestling, M Basketball, W Basketball. It's nauseating. We have Volleyball but I don't care about volleyball.
 

Apologies for the rant, but feel like it sums up my (and maybe many others) Gopher fandom right now.

It's time. It is time to move on from PJ.

I am a previous hardcore Fleck fan who thought he was a great hire. I thought his rah rah attitude coupled with a mauling ground game was something we could build sustainably with our recruiting grounds and could accent it with under the radar runners and a competent enough QB with a stout defense to make it work. 2019 seemed to prove that and things felt great. Unfortunately, literally every single season since then has been a step back. Numerous chances, a shitty division, veteran rosters, and still he cannot close a single deal. This season, he had shown some growth which I think gave us all some optimism. He was willing to actually throw the ball. He was willing to bring in a pressure focused defensive coordinator.

But then you take a step back and... he has absolutely no idea how to manage a team on gameday. He can't help them ride the highs and the lows. He can't divise a gameplan adjustment after half (just look at his w/l while trailing and all he's doing is adding Ls when leading after half at this point). He doesn't know how to manage the clock. It's just a damn mess.

I love PJ for what he does in the community. I love that he holds his players accountable to their coursework and he actually seems to care about what they become in this world. but...

That's not the world we live in anymore because the rules have changed. I don't want to make bowls because our APR is good. I want to make them because we fucking can curbstomp other teams and win games at least 6 god damn times in this new big ten and maybe every once in awhile have a schedule and a team that flirts with 10 and a playoff birth because 10 in the new b10 will get you close. PJ isn't that guy. He's not going to accept his deficiencies and hire a veteran OC who's been there and turn it over to them. He's not going to recruit well enough here we can play Dantonio press and pressure style defense to force turnovers and create havoc. He's just not that good at any of the specific spheres of being a coach but is that executive who says nice things in meetings but you wonder what the fuck he actually does every day. He doesn't call the plays but controls them. He recruits but only his type of guy and not well enough to land in the top 25 EVER. He doesn't adjust well enough on gameday like someone like Bielema does to steal games when you have lesser talents.

Personally it's been a fun ride. But watching Ferentz yet again walk out of MN with Floyd is enough. PJ inspires no worry or fear in any coach because they know they're going to have an easy, predictable day against him. We are more talented than iowa yet again, and yet again we fucking lost. That's on the coaching at the end of the day, whether the guys in maroon make the plays or not.

As yall know, I'm on this site almost every day. I bleed maroon and gold. I'll be there at the game next week. But ffs at some point enough is enough in watching the same old shit recycled. He had yet another chance to change the narrative today that he could dominate a rival and choked his chicken in the second half and looked like a scared puppy in the headlights. That's been PJ every year since 2019. Theres been no signature wins. It's time to stop living in the past and time for a new start
I agree with everything you said but for one sentence—that we are more talented than Iowa —not even close in my opinion and the score showed it!
 



James Madison putting up 70 on UNC proved to be the bad sign I thought it was.

Things only get worse from here. Fleck is 2-9 in his last 11 against teams with a pulse. The raise Fleck got last offseason that resulted in his buyout being something like $22 million dollars after this season is devastating. The calvary is not coming. If anything this was supposed to be a "peak" year with a bunch of Senior starters. I don't want to imagine what LT looks like next year with Ersery gone given Fleck/Callahan couldn't recruit/find/develop a RT in the past 3 seasons.

Paul Chryst was 43-18 in the Big Ten and got fired at Wisconsin 2 Big Ten games in to his 8th season. PJ Fleck is currently in his 8th season at Minnesota. As someone posted in another thread, nobody at Iowa or Wisconsin would ever get the opportunity to go 1-7 against Minnesota.

People rarely are driven to do better when they are rewarded for being mediocre or worse. Coyle, like Maturi before him, apparently think every coach they've ever hired is the exception to that statement.
 

James Madison putting up 70 on UNC proved to be the bad sign I thought it was.

Things only get worse from here. Fleck is 2-9 in his last 11 against teams with a pulse. The raise Fleck got last offseason that resulted in his buyout being something like $22 million dollars after this season is devastating. The calvary is not coming. If anything this was supposed to be a "peak" year with a bunch of Senior starters. I don't want to imagine what LT looks like next year with Ersery gone given Fleck/Callahan couldn't recruit/find/develop a RT in the past 3 seasons.

Paul Chryst was 43-18 in the Big Ten and got fired at Wisconsin 2 Big Ten games in to his 8th season. PJ Fleck is currently in his 8th season at Minnesota. As someone posted in another thread, nobody at Iowa or Wisconsin would ever get the opportunity to go 1-7 against Minnesota.

People rarely are driven to do better when they are rewarded for being mediocre or worse. Coyle, like Maturi before him, apparently think every coach they've ever hired is the exception to that statement.
I only boo’d once tonight directed towards Coyle when they announced him what a dip shit.
 

I only boo’d once tonight directed towards Coyle when they announced him what a dip shit.
Coyle cannot raise two nickles in revenue or donations. You need someone that is good at shaking people down on the golf course or glad handing, getting people to part with money. The stuff PR and selling that Fleck is good at , Coyle doesn't have that sales- menship. You can call it fluff but that stuff works, we need a good BS'er. Minnesota actually with programs is at a higher level than deserved for how poor the top revenue programs have historically been. We're not great but have good facility's and fans that care. People are ticked and frustrated, that's not apathy, just disappointment.
 


Beautiful night for a game. First half: The crowd was engaged and loud. Gophers threw well and the D was solid. Second half: Rough to say the least. Being completely destroyed by Iowa like we were is disheartening. It’s only 4 weeks in but I just don’t see a lot of upside right now.
 

Apologies for the rant, but feel like it sums up my (and maybe many others) Gopher fandom right now.

It's time. It is time to move on from PJ.

I am a previous hardcore Fleck fan who thought he was a great hire. I thought his rah rah attitude coupled with a mauling ground game was something we could build sustainably with our recruiting grounds and could accent it with under the radar runners and a competent enough QB with a stout defense to make it work. 2019 seemed to prove that and things felt great. Unfortunately, literally every single season since then has been a step back. Numerous chances, a shitty division, veteran rosters, and still he cannot close a single deal. This season, he had shown some growth which I think gave us all some optimism. He was willing to actually throw the ball. He was willing to bring in a pressure focused defensive coordinator.

But then you take a step back and... he has absolutely no idea how to manage a team on gameday. He can't help them ride the highs and the lows. He can't divise a gameplan adjustment after half (just look at his w/l while trailing and all he's doing is adding Ls when leading after half at this point). He doesn't know how to manage the clock. It's just a damn mess.

I love PJ for what he does in the community. I love that he holds his players accountable to their coursework and he actually seems to care about what they become in this world. but...

That's not the world we live in anymore because the rules have changed. I don't want to make bowls because our APR is good. I want to make them because we fucking can curbstomp other teams and win games at least 6 god damn times in this new big ten and maybe every once in awhile have a schedule and a team that flirts with 10 and a playoff birth because 10 in the new b10 will get you close. PJ isn't that guy. He's not going to accept his deficiencies and hire a veteran OC who's been there and turn it over to them. He's not going to recruit well enough here we can play Dantonio press and pressure style defense to force turnovers and create havoc. He's just not that good at any of the specific spheres of being a coach but is that executive who says nice things in meetings but you wonder what the fuck he actually does every day. He doesn't call the plays but controls them. He recruits but only his type of guy and not well enough to land in the top 25 EVER. He doesn't adjust well enough on gameday like someone like Bielema does to steal games when you have lesser talents.

Personally it's been a fun ride. But watching Ferentz yet again walk out of MN with Floyd is enough. PJ inspires no worry or fear in any coach because they know they're going to have an easy, predictable day against him. We are more talented than iowa yet again, and yet again we fucking lost. That's on the coaching at the end of the day, whether the guys in maroon make the plays or not.

As yall know, I'm on this site almost every day. I bleed maroon and gold. I'll be there at the game next week. But ffs at some point enough is enough in watching the same old shit recycled. He had yet another chance to change the narrative today that he could dominate a rival and choked his chicken in the second half and looked like a scared puppy in the headlights. That's been PJ every year since 2019. Theres been no signature wins. It's time to stop living in the past and time for a new start
He lost me tonight. This is a shitshow, and that is being kind. That guy got walked by a veteran superior coach. There is zero reason we cannot have as good a program as Iowa or better. Enough of this shit already. That was embarassing. Wonderful crowd. National audience, and he pisses it down his leg again.
 

This is what happens when you hire inferior coaching talent just so they can fit your system and submit to your philosophy - he even admitted we only hired our DC because he was familiar with what we ran before. Harbaugh also is way too under qualified.

It's a bad sign that PJ hasn't been able to hire solid coordinators outside of his original group.
i agree, his coordinator hires keep setting us back.
 

Brosmer is better than AK, but it doesn’t matter because we can’t run the ball for shit. Absolutely shocked at how badly our D-line got smoked tonight. And I’m out on Green/coleman at safety. Give me Perich and Brown.

Yet another loss against a very beatable rival. Sigh.
Based on overall talent level Iowa is not a beatable rival for Minnesota. Schemes and coaching mean little when you are being physically manhandled. The only serious criticism of Fleck and his staff is that they cannot recruit enough talent to win in the Big Ten.
 

Apologies for the rant, but feel like it sums up my (and maybe many others) Gopher fandom right now.

It's time. It is time to move on from PJ.

I am a previous hardcore Fleck fan who thought he was a great hire. I thought his rah rah attitude coupled with a mauling ground game was something we could build sustainably with our recruiting grounds and could accent it with under the radar runners and a competent enough QB with a stout defense to make it work. 2019 seemed to prove that and things felt great. Unfortunately, literally every single season since then has been a step back. Numerous chances, a shitty division, veteran rosters, and still he cannot close a single deal. This season, he had shown some growth which I think gave us all some optimism. He was willing to actually throw the ball. He was willing to bring in a pressure focused defensive coordinator.

But then you take a step back and... he has absolutely no idea how to manage a team on gameday. He can't help them ride the highs and the lows. He can't divise a gameplan adjustment after half (just look at his w/l while trailing and all he's doing is adding Ls when leading after half at this point). He doesn't know how to manage the clock. It's just a damn mess.

I love PJ for what he does in the community. I love that he holds his players accountable to their coursework and he actually seems to care about what they become in this world. but...

That's not the world we live in anymore because the rules have changed. I don't want to make bowls because our APR is good. I want to make them because we fucking can curbstomp other teams and win games at least 6 god damn times in this new big ten and maybe every once in awhile have a schedule and a team that flirts with 10 and a playoff birth because 10 in the new b10 will get you close. PJ isn't that guy. He's not going to accept his deficiencies and hire a veteran OC who's been there and turn it over to them. He's not going to recruit well enough here we can play Dantonio press and pressure style defense to force turnovers and create havoc. He's just not that good at any of the specific spheres of being a coach but is that executive who says nice things in meetings but you wonder what the fuck he actually does every day. He doesn't call the plays but controls them. He recruits but only his type of guy and not well enough to land in the top 25 EVER. He doesn't adjust well enough on gameday like someone like Bielema does to steal games when you have lesser talents.

Personally it's been a fun ride. But watching Ferentz yet again walk out of MN with Floyd is enough. PJ inspires no worry or fear in any coach because they know they're going to have an easy, predictable day against him. We are more talented than iowa yet again, and yet again we fucking lost. That's on the coaching at the end of the day, whether the guys in maroon make the plays or not.

As yall know, I'm on this site almost every day. I bleed maroon and gold. I'll be there at the game next week. But ffs at some point enough is enough in watching the same old shit recycled. He had yet another chance to change the narrative today that he could dominate a rival and choked his chicken in the second half and looked like a scared puppy in the headlights. That's been PJ every year since 2019. Theres been no signature wins. It's time to stop living in the past and time for a new start
"We're more talented than Iowa yet again ...."? If you had seen tonight's game you would know how untrue that is.
 

This is what happens when you hire inferior coaching talent just so they can fit your system and submit to your philosophy - he even admitted we only hired our DC because he was familiar with what we ran before. Harbaugh also is way too under qualified.

It's a bad sign that PJ hasn't been able to hire solid coordinators outside of his original group.
We supposedly tried to hire Seth Wallace the Iowa lb's coach and he stayed at Iowa (has assistant head coach title, don't know if he got that before or after our contact). We also tried to hire Harasymiak (sp?) back, but he remained at Rutgers as their DC.

We've also struggled to attract position coaches from other power 4 schools. I believe Nick Monroe is the only position coach on staff who was hired away from another power 5 school and that was Syracuse. I think Ligashesky (sp?) the special teams guy was free due to a coaching change at Syracuse.

I think we've lost at least 6 position coaches to lateral moves to other power 4 schools.

I think it's an open question how much of that is due to lower assistant coaching pay pool at Minnesota and how much is due to people just wanting to coach football and not have to use Fleck verbiage? Nobody has shown much loyalty to Fleck when they've had a chance to move on, they've taken it (in Ciarocca's case twice).
 

It was the best of times and the worst of times.
For the first time in maybe five years, the Gophers were dominated in the second half by Iwoa on both lines of scrimmage. Really when you think about it that's the first problem on both sides in the second half. The second problem was Gophers receivers could get no separation in the amount of time that Max had to make a decision. I didn't think Max played poorly necessarily. The third problem was the Gophers angles, speed, and tackling in the second half was atrocious.
 

"We're more talented than Iowa yet again ...."? If you had seen tonight's game you would know how untrue that is.
i disagree entirely. we are horribly coached. the talent is definitely there. it keeps getting drafted into the NFL. we have no system, rhyme or reason to anything we do and we keep yo yoing back and forth on what we think we want to do on both sides of the ball. that does not work.
 


It was the best of times and the worst of times.
For the first time in maybe five years, the Gophers were dominated in the second half by Iwoa on both lines of scrimmage. Really when you think about it that's the first problem on both sides in the second half. The second problem was Gophers receivers could get no separation in the amount of time that Max had to make a decision. I didn't think Max played poorly necessarily. The third problem was the Gophers angles, speed, and tackling in the second half was atrocious.
It wasn't just speed, it was poor angles, being out of position, communication and inexperience. We didn't catch onto their tempo early on at all. When we blitzed a linebacker they had a hat to block them, used misdirection, and another blocker to seal the edge, with no safety to string to the sideline. They were good at feigning the TE screen off rollout too. The sideline is your friend if you can stay in front as a defender. DE got pinned a lot, if you cannot shed and there is no help getting pinned sets up inside an explosive play. #17 should play inside more, with twist stunts, he can be disruptive creating a mismatch. Problem you have to have another DE good enough to play the run. This is what Iowa does, it doesn't change much and should have been expected. Hat tip to #2 he made a lot of great plays for them. Turn the page to Michigan I guess.
 
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Hey PJ, I could hire a better OC for you in 2 minutes, as most fans on this site probably could. I don't get it because he's hired guys like Harasymiak and Hetherman.

How about the OC at James Madison, a team that just scored 70 points vs NC on the road?

There are literally probably 20 guys I could find sitting at my computer for an hour that would be more qualified and better than the one you hired.

Start with these 2 simple things PJ, they've been an OC before, and they've had success as an OC. Both things your current OC didn't have before you hired him.
 

Hey PJ, I could hire a better OC for you in 2 minutes, as most fans on this site probably could. I don't get it because he's hired guys like Harasymiak and Hetherman.

How about the OC at James Madison, a team that just scored 70 points vs NC on the road?

There are literally probably 20 guys I could find sitting at my computer for an hour that would be more qualified and better than the one you hired.

Start with these 2 simple things PJ, they've been an OC before, and they've had success as an OC. Both things your current OC didn't have before you hired him.
I wouldn't say that at all, were just fans. Harbaugh gets caught in a rut sometimes using the same route trees that seems telegraphed. Our motion of the TE is just window dressing and they get no separation split out wide. Better off lining them up in line and doing a quick 5 yard slant in or particularly the stick route. We don't have anyone that can block well out of the Hback position. Look at what Texaa is doing, obviously great talent at Texas, but well designed competitive plays that are fast developing. When is the last time the Gophers ran a tunnel screen to a fast dude like Brockington or Driver or even a Majors? How about a middle screen to a tailback like DT. You have to have people that can block it too. First half was good design, but we were up only one score, Iowa started jamming us at the line , and the two really good inside linebackers were disruptive especially the two inside(great instincts). That and they didn't bite on any play action we were mimicking. We used to be good at inside zone, seems like we have backs that can execute it. Oline play has to be at a Big 10 level,this year it has not happened yet. Been a little disappointed in the group, with that many older guys things should be better. OL coach needs to get this group to gel and start moving people.
 
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Hey PJ, I could hire a better OC for you in 2 minutes, as most fans on this site probably could. I don't get it because he's hired guys like Harasymiak and Hetherman.

How about the OC at James Madison, a team that just scored 70 points vs NC on the road?

There are literally probably 20 guys I could find sitting at my computer for an hour that would be more qualified and better than the one you hired.

Start with these 2 simple things PJ, they've been an OC before, and they've had success as an OC. Both things your current OC didn't have before you hired him.
This is purely speculative, but I'd guess he's looking for guys who will 100% buy into his culture mindset and that severely limits our options because the OCs and DCs who we'd want to see here are all about ensuring long term job security, which comes by winning games, not the other stuff.
 




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