Post Game Thread: Gophers Have Massive Meltdown Again, Fall to 0-10 to Bielema, Fail Again With BTW In Grasp

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MNVCGUY said:
I mean if you totally fool the D it is a great play but when you don't fool them at all then having a WR throw to your QB who is well covered......yeah......not going to work.

Going for the element of surprise but Illinois just didn't bite at all.
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We dragged too many people to that side of the field.
 

I'm a PJ fan but I think he has seen his better days
 

On a day when Wisconsin and Nebraska lost we took the conservative approach again and lost it. We had all kinds of opportunities to put this game away but questionable play calling and our typical problems of not catching "catchable" balls, AK throwing it 125 mph to an open TE or skipping one to an open WR, both for first downs. Settling for FG's. Using tush push successfully on one third and one but not using on another 3rd and 1. Poor execution of a 2 point try. I could go on. But at the end of the day, after more or less having good defense and forcing turnovers, how did Illinois go 92 yards with a second string QB who was rushed into play with less than two minutes in the game..
 

First, still in shock on the way the game ended.

Second, it's the seventh year of this experiment and it is really difficult to see where this is going. Decent every year, but seems to be a cap on how high they can go. I still think the defining moment was losing to Wisconsin in 2019. That was the open window of opportunity. Everything lined up all season with all of the back up QB's in a row. That was the chance to elevate the program to the next level. Reminds me of the Michigan loss in the Mason era. Program never recovered. The question is how long do you go? Wait ten years like Mason? Or, can Fleck use the used car salesman approach to find another school to take a chance on him?
 



Horrible disgusting loss. Miserable failure.
 

We were spoiled by a few years of easy schedules and holdovers from Kill.

THIS is the team Fleck built. Bowling Green. Northwestern. Recruiting a QB who cannot pass, a right tackle who cannot block, and a defense that collapses under pressure.

And next year, it's going to be worse. This program needs a change. Either a change of conference, or a change of coach.
 

I’m not gonna bag on Fleck after that game. #2 let him down. Athan couldn’t make a simple throw on 3rd and 4. Croons dropped an easy TD (he’s been good though).

I think Fleck has the ability to learn, adapt and grow as a coach. Minnesota is lucky to have him. Give Illinois credit, and give QB #4 credit. They made the plays.
 




USAF said:
Stop fucking playing not to lose! Stop playing afraid. Playing for field goals. Taking a knee with half a minute left before half. Running out the play clock behind in the 4th quarter.

I'm losing faith in PJ. This was pathetic.
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Taking the knee at the end of the first half bugged the H out of me. You need points. Why not take a shot or two downfield. Maybe you get a field goal. Play to win!
 

Some Day...Maybe said:
I think Fleck has the ability to learn, adapt and grow as a coach. Minnesota is lucky to have him.
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What have you seen to give you this opinion? He hasn’t demonstrated anything in 7 years that would support that.
 


What would the offense look like if they just played the same offense all game? Once PJ gets a lead he hits the brakes and the entire offense becomes obscenely predictable. The offense is humming in the first half, and then go ultra conservative (completely expected). Then they get down at the end and expect AK8 to turn it back on like a faucet. I don’t care if you’re down or up; just run your offense that works. Mix the pass and run. Throw on first down every once in a while. The flow is so herky-jerky it’s no surprise that the offense struggles to get back going. PJ has become crippled by his paranoia of turnovers.
 



MNVCGUY said:
Going to ignore the over the top stupidity that will surely get posted in this thread and all the others but extremely disappointing loss.

No way should they have been able to get that last TD, someone on D has to make a play and the one guy you can't let get open gets wide open for the final TD. And to top it off it was their backup QB under center for the last part of the series. Just can't happen but has happened multiple times this year now.

I was also not a fan of the 3rd and 9 running play late in the 2nd quarter before the field goal to go up 17-14. We were already in field goal range so those 4 yards didn't change anything in terms of the kick....no reason not to try and get the first down there.

Crooms with the dropped TD was huge, not being able to punch it in when we had it deep in their territory after the Joyner strip sack.....so many missed opportunities.

And the coaches need to figure out why our passing game can look good in the first half but be non-existent in the second half.

Super frustrating loss, have to regroup and get ready for Purdue and most importantly make sure we take care of business against Wisconsin at the end of the year. West may be out of the picture but can still salvage some things by making a bowl and keeping the Axe.
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Future high draft pick DT Johnny Newton was out until the second half. He was blowing up plays the whole second half. It could have something to do with it.
 

mngg11 said:
It's humorous how quickly people forget that we've averaged 9 wins a year 4 of the last 5.
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Typical Minnesota attitude… 9 wins, yay, we’re big time! Iowa and Wisconsin aren’t settling for 9 wins. Yet Minnesota seems to think that’s a sign of great success. If you’re happy with 9 wins, Fleck may be your guy. Not mine.
 

Section209 said:
Typical Minnesota attitude… 9 wins, yay, we’re big time! Iowa and Wisconsin aren’t settling for 9 wins. Yet Minnesota seems to think that’s a sign of great success. If you’re happy with 9 wins, Fleck may be your guy. Not mine.
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It’s only going to get more difficult with 4 of the better PAC 12 teams joining the conference.
 


Section209 said:
Typical Minnesota attitude… 9 wins, yay, we’re big time! Iowa and Wisconsin aren’t settling for 9 wins. Yet Minnesota seems to think that’s a sign of great success. If you’re happy with 9 wins, Fleck may be your guy. Not mine.
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Iowa is setting for that level. Wisconsin isn't yet, but they will be soon. PJ is very flawed, but his replacement is likely to do worse. not better.
 



I want fishing today and they were biting listened to the game casually while I was doing that it felt good. The two weeks before that I hung out with the grandkids during game time and had it on in the background. If the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result, then PJ is a complete nut job and I’m not willing to be a full participant in it anymore.
 


mngg11 said:
Kaliakmanis continues to show he isn't it. I've never been a backup qb fanatic but develop someone else.
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That's the fucking point. He's a raw talent and there's absolutely no one on Fleck's staff with the ability to develop him. That's on Phillip John.
 

Some Day...Maybe said:
I’m not gonna bag on Fleck after that game. #2 let him down. Athan couldn’t make a simple throw on 3rd and 4. Croons dropped an easy TD (he’s been good though).

I think Fleck has the ability to learn, adapt and grow as a coach. Minnesota is lucky to have him. Give Illinois credit, and give QB #4 credit. They made the plays.
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What a dummy.
 

This one really hurts. I don't think it's as bad as Northwestern, Bielema is no slouch as a coach so I didn't figure Illinois would be a cake walk, so losing wasn't a complete shock.

The way the loss happened, though, was an absolute gut punch. There were three chances there to win this game. The offense could have won it by getting a first down, it failed. The defense could have stopped them from marching down the field, they failed. And the offense once again could have used the clock and timeouts to get into field goal range, and they failed.

Having chances at victory like that and not pulling it off is immensely upsetting. It has that classic "same old Gophers" feel to it, which just sucks the life out of the program.

It's tough looking for positives after a game like this one, and the only one I can think of is the defense playing well until that final drive and Nubin tying the record. Otherwise, it was rough, especially from Athan.

I haven't had much confidence in his play since he began starting games, and have been hoping that he'd start clicking eventually and elevate his play, but it just hasn't happened. I agree with the sentiment in another thread about missing Tanner Morgan, and I have to agree with that. And, to be honest, I even miss Mitch Leidner, maybe some rose tint but Leidner I feel could at least run better?

Aside from the players on the field, when it comes to who's on the sidelines, it's apparent that things need to change. The offensive coordinator needs to be changed.

As for the bigger question around Fleck's future, I'm kind of between a rock and a hard place. This is another game where I feel just completely fed up with Fleck. He says it all falls on him, and yet he doesn't make the necessary changes on his staff and roster to reflect that.

At the same time, I can't deny he's also brought a lot of good times. He's dominated Nebraska, won the Axe and now Floyd, had a signature win against Penn State, earned a victory on New Year's Day.

The success puts one in a frustrating position. It's not a situation where wanting to keep the coach is an easy decision, as losses like this happen and Fleck hasn't been able to win a division that's been right there for the taking.

At the same time, he has a winning record, has had multiple 9+ win seasons and even his "down" years were close to .500, and it's arguable with a normal year, 2020 could have resulted in a winning record. So the bottom hasn't fallen out, either, making one second guess wanting him gone.

Ultimately, Fleck is here for the season, the hot seat factor will be determined based on how the rest of the season goes. Outside of Ohio State, the Gophers can still have success if they can regroup and win some games. Best case scenario now, beat Purdue, keep the Axe, earn a bowl victory and finish with an 8 win season.
 
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On AK - the lack of touch is almost inexplicable. So, QB options for next year:

1. stick with AK
2. bring in a Grad Transfer or Portal QB
3. start the true FR from Arkansas.

I would recommend a blend of 1 & 2. bring in a portal QB with 1 or 2 years eligibility. let the New Guy and AK battle it out for the starting job. meanwhile, get Lindsey ready ASAP.

let me add this - AK had an abbreviated HS career. missed parts of his SO and JR seasons due to injury. SR year had a 6-game season due to covid. the point is that Lindsey - the kid from Arkansas - will likely have more pass attempts and completions this season than AK did for his entire career. The Gophers recruited AK on potential - and so far they have been unable to bring out that potential - assuming it is there.
 

IceBoxGopher said:
This one really hurts. I don't think it's as bad as Northwestern, Bielema is no slouch as a coach so I didn't figure Illinois would be a cake walk, so losing wasn't a complete shock.

The way the loss happened, though, was an absolute gut punch. There were three chances there to win this game. The offense could have won it by getting a first down, it failed. The defense could have stopped them from marching down the field, they failed. And the offense once again could have used the clock and timeouts to get into field goal range, and they failed.

Having chances at victory like that and not pulling it off is immensely upsetting. It has that classic "same old Gophers" feel to it, which just sucks the life out of the program.

It's tough looking for positives after a game like this one, and the only one I can think of is the defense playing well until that final drive and Nubin tying the record. Otherwise, it was rough, especially from Athan.

I haven't had much confidence in his play since he began starting games, and have been hoping that he'd start clicking eventually and elevate his play, but it just hasn't happened. I agree with the sentiment in another thread about missing Tanner Morgan, and I have to agree with that. And, to be honest, I even miss Mitch Leidner, maybe some rose tint but Leidner I feel could at least run better?

Aside from the players on the field, when it comes to who's on the sidelines, it's apparent that things need to change. The offensive coordinator needs to be changed.

As for the bigger question around Fleck's future, I'm kind of between a rock and a hard place. This is another game where I feel just completely fed up with Fleck. He says it all falls on him, and yet he doesn't make the necessary changes on his staff and roster to reflect that.

At the same time, I can't deny he's also brought a lot of good times. He's dominated Nebraska, won the Axe and now Floyd, had a signature win against Penn State, earned a victory on New Year's Day.

The success puts one in a frustrating position. It's not a situation where wanting to keep the coach is an easy decision, as losses like this happen and Fleck hasn't been able to win a division that's been right there for the taking.

At the same time, he has a winning record, has had multiple 9+ win seasons and even his "down" years were close to .500, and it's arguable with a normal year, 2020 could have resulted in a winning record. So the bottom hasn't fallen out, either, making one second guess wanting him gone.

Ultimately, Fleck is here for the season, the hot seat factor will be determined based on how the rest of the season goes. Outside of Ohio State, the Gophers can still have success if they can regroup and win some games. Best case scenario now, beat Purdue, keep the Axe, earn a bowl victory and finish with an 8 win season.
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I've got another positive......Rossi is likely safe from being hired away as a HC. The inexplicable Northwestern and Illinois collapses take some shine off him.
 

mngg11 said:
It's humorous how quickly people forget that we've averaged 9 wins a year 4 of the last 5.
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You know, on paper, you are correct. But all 9 win seasons are not the same when it comes to perception. PJ’s had 9 win seasons because he’s won middling bowl games. Granted, he’s doing things that haven’t been done here in eons, but should we ignore the massive missed opportunities this program has had over those same 4-5 years? We should have at least two Big10 West titles and the championship game that comes with it. We don’t because PJ, for the most part, continues to get out coached. How many times have we outplayed Iowa and lost because of his staunch conservatism with the offense? Three straight losses to Illinois? Northwestern this year? Bowling Green? Purdue last year? If PJ had just won 6 of those 12 games I just mentioned, we’ve gone to Indy at least once if not twice. We would have had better bowl games to play in, more exposure and perhaps, just perhaps, we might have gotten a recruit or two that we’ve failed to land. Days like today matter and have consequences, regardless of what PJ’s done in comparison to prior coaches. Instead of being mentioned all this coming week as being in the driver seat for the west, we are now still perceived as a lesser program to Iowa and Wisconsin. It doesn’t matter in the big picture if we have Floyd and the Ax if we continue to finish behind those two in the standings, bowl pecking order and rankings when they apply. I heard radio talk this week about the west and all of it was about Nebraska’s resurgence and how Iowa and Wisconsin still had a shot. Not once did anyone say a damn thing about Minnesota? Why? Probably because they all knew this team would do what it did today because PJ never changes. PJ needs to get better and put a motor on the boat, or in my opinion, he can row it elsewhere.
 
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I personally can't take anymore of these losses. I would much rather lose 42-7 than watch another miracle victory for an (often) inferior opponent in the waning seconds of a 3 hour game. There can't be another program (and it's not just under PJ but there's been a TON under PJ) where the oppostion completes a 4th an 11 to get to the 37 yard line with like a minute and ten seconds left and no timeouts with their backup QB in the game...and the fanbase collectively feels like the game winning TD is not just possible, but basically inevitable Or when Tyler Nubin gets the pick at like the 40 yard line with approximately 4 minutes left...and my (and I assume our) reaction is "too much time left, we'll go 3 and out and they'll have plenty of time for a second chance".

What happens when we get the ball with 50 seconds left at the 25, 2 timeouts and needing maybe 40 yards? We don't complete a single pass, and none of the 4 plays we ran looked even close. Just completely inept football and it's literally every single time the Gopher offense is in this spot late in a game.

Other people have stated it but, outside of 2019, these "x win seasons" have been very hollow. Fleck has been incredibly fortunate to play some of the easiest schedules we've ever had. There have been horrible losses every single season since '19. In the Covid year, we were favored by almost the exact number over Maryland as Michigan was against this Gophers this year! Nobody even remembers that game because there have been so many horrific losses over the last 4 seasons. One of the reporters in the post game said this was a "dark day" and Fleck responded that it wasn't a dark day, and I just can't imagine him not grasping the gravity of this situation. Not getting to Indy this year in THIS B1G West is just an absolute nightmare for this program. Next year the schedule starts Iowa, at Michigan, USC, at UCLA. If they don't take care of business at home against Iowa, just absolutely write off '24 because it's going to be really ugly. So we're 4 years removed from 2019 and it's hard to see us going 7-2 against that '24 schedule which would require beating Michigan, USC, or Penn State and sweeping everyone else. Or, you know, you just handle buisness against Northwestern and Illinois and you are a 1 loss Big Ten team going to Purdue next week and might have a trip to Indy wrapped up before Wisconsin even gets here. It's hard to see a positive path forward for this program when we consistently drop multiple games to teams you can't lose to in order to win a B1G West title.
 

Section209 said:
Typical Minnesota attitude… 9 wins, yay, we’re big time! Iowa and Wisconsin aren’t settling for 9 wins. Yet Minnesota seems to think that’s a sign of great success. If you’re happy with 9 wins, Fleck may be your guy. Not mine.
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Start doling out the big bucks to the school then, brother. 9 wins is our ceiling in the current iteration of "amateur college football." Unless the Vikings dump a shit ton of money into our NIL this is the best you'll get. But methinks you just like to bitch.
 

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