Play Gray -The Movement

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#93fanclub

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We are currently a one dimensional team. We have a quarterback who is a threat to take off down the field ON EVERY PLAY. Based upon our performance to date, there is no downside to a) starting Gray or b)platooning Gray and Weber. Do we think that 3 and 4 star recruits don't see this? I do not like the philosophy that anoints a person quarterback for the duration. Let Gray compete for the job during a game.
 


STUPID:rolleyes:

The coaches would have had him playing by now if he was ready.
Downsides include:
INT's, injuries(our Oline is not just going to block better overnight), bad habit forming(happy feet... see Weber after running for his life for three years, and overall less chance to gain chemistry and ultimately win. Are you ok with a 4-8, 5-7 season with Gray? or a 6, 7 , 8 win season with Weber?
 




If I was convinced the problems rested with Weber, I'd agree. There is plenty of evidence, however, that our offenive line is the real issue. Look at the end of the game when Weber had zero time to drop back and throw. The offensive line was pourous.

I also have an issue with the play calling at that time. It looked to me as though they had Weber in a deep drop offense trying to make the big play. We had 2:20, or so, left when we got the ball. With the clock stopping on each 1st down I thought we should have been trying to make 10 yard plays for 1st downs. Looking at the TIVO of the game it appears to me that Wisc. was giving us that but we were committed to hitting a home run. Foolish, given our O Line. Our 1st objective was a field goal.
 

Am I satisfied with Webers performance thus far? No. Do I want to see a green untested and not game ready QB struggling to run an offense like we saw with Weber in 07? No.

I defer to the coaches.

What I think is realistic is to allow Gray to run the base offense when he is out there versus gadget and wildcat plays. Can't they allow him to throw a safe, base route in gametime conditions? Continue to use him but let him be a QB.
 

Bayfieldgopher said:
Am I satisfied with Webers performance thus far? No. Do I want to see a green untested and not game ready QB struggling to run an offense like we saw with Weber in 07? No.

I defer to the coaches.

What I think is realistic is to allow Gray to run the base offense when he is out there versus gadget and wildcat plays. Can't they allow him to throw a safe, base route in gametime conditions? Continue to use him but let him be a QB.
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Agree, mostly. I don't think Gray should start, but why not give him a full series on occasion instead of one play? Why play him at WR while others who play there full-time (Carpenter?) watch from the sidelines?

However, to all those people who say the coaches know better because they see the two QBs in practice (which is true) and that's why Weber continues to play: It was the coaches who told us that Gray was going to be a big part of this offense this year. Both Brewster and Fisch. I'm sure they watched Gray occasionally in spring practice and fall camp before they got so excited about him -- and got US so excited about him.
 

#93fanclub said:
We are currently a one dimensional team. We have a quarterback who is a threat to take off down the field ON EVERY PLAY. Based upon our performance to date, there is no downside to a) starting Gray or b)platooning Gray and Weber. Do we think that 3 and 4 star recruits don't see this? I do not like the philosophy that anoints a person quarterback for the duration. Let Gray compete for the job during a game.
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I think next week will determine alot of this. If you go with Gray you are preparing for the future. There are going to be some ups and downs. There is no way he can step in and be consistant as a freshman. If the Gophers lose next week they are looking at 1-4 big ten start and probably no bowl game, it may be time to start preparing for the future if that happens.
 



I'm glad our program is developing that a talent like Gray can learn under a talent like Weber, and we don't have to play people at this position too early.
 

Weber is doing fine with the time he has. We are in every game.
 

Bayfieldgopher said:
Do I want to see a green untested and not game ready QB struggling to run an offense like we saw with Weber in 07? No.
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Oh, you mean the Weber that threw 24 TDs? Heavens no. God forbid, we'd never want to see that Weber again.:rolleyes:

In all seriousness though, too many people are making this an either-or issue. It shouldn't be, nor need it be. There is absolutely no reason why Gray cannot play more than he has been over the course of the season. I thought the Northwestern game was a sign of things to come, that his role would steadily increase, and that by the end of the season, he would be taking 25-30% of the snaps, and (gasp!) throwing the ball once in a while! The few times he has seen the field he has been absolutely electric, and many of us would like to see more of that.

Even to the untrained eye, it is obvious that Weber has regressed. Sure, our o-line doesn't help matters any, but it's not like they're any worse than last year's version. I'm not saying put Weber on the bench and never let him see the field again (I think only a select few are of that mindset) but let Gray see the field more! He's the type of talent that only comes to this University once every few years, at best.

What is also obvious is that the coaching staff has put Weber on a proverbial leash and told him to never, ever, ever run. They could not be more dense in this regard, and if he were allowed to move when able, he could get himself out of some of his self-imposed troubles before they even began.
 

Pryor came in and made an immediate impact while a Senior QB was struggling...so pretty much we're agreeing that Gray isn't as good as Pryor?
 



I think Gray should be given a chance, and I really like Weber.
The problem: If Decker doesn't make plays, then no one does. We have a guy who's explosive (Gray) and is tough to defend because of his versatility.
No offense to Weber, but he looks slower this year. Has he busted a long run yet?
I liken it to the situation Ohio State had last year. That team was like night and day when they finally made the OB switch. Pryor struggled somewhat, but it turned out to be a good move.
 

I agree with DPoll68. While I hate platooning, we need to change SOMETHING. Either let Weber run more (do they have him wearing a shock collar in practice that goes off if he crosses the LoS?) or get Gray in there AND let him throw it occasionally. Did Gray even see the field vs. UW.

Weber has either regressed, or opposing teams have figured out how to defend him better. At least in the past they had to respect his running ability. To be fair to #8, our lack of an OL or a running game haven't helped. But case in point: a few days ago there was a thread about how Weber should pump fake more. I saw him pump fake 3 times on one throw. Unfortunately, he pump faked to the guy he was throwing it to (Stoudemire), who got drilled right as the ball arrived for an incompletion.

Einstein wrote that the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over while expecting a different result. If we continue to run the same offense we'll be lucky to go 3-5 in BT play, with 2-6 being more likely.
 

Too Long in the Wasteland said:
I agree with DPoll68. While I hate platooning, we need to change SOMETHING. Either let Weber run more (do they have him wearing a shock collar in practice that goes off if he crosses the LoS?) or get Gray in there AND let him throw it occasionally. Did Gray even see the field vs. UW.

Weber has either regressed, or opposing teams have figured out how to defend him better. At least in the past they had to respect his running ability. To be fair to #8, our lack of an OL or a running game haven't helped. But case in point: a few days ago there was a thread about how Weber should pump fake more. I saw him pump fake 3 times on one throw. Unfortunately, he pump faked to the guy he was throwing it to (Stoudemire), who got drilled right as the ball arrived for an incompletion.

Einstein wrote that the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over while expecting a different result. If we continue to run the same offense we'll be lucky to go 3-5 in BT play, with 2-6 being more likely.
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Genuis.......
 

If Gray doesn't play more this week I surely don't see them putting him out there at OSU and PSU. If he can't handle more playing time then they should've redshirted him and hoped like heck that Weber doesn't get hurt. I thought they should've tried to get a juco quarterback last year to be a backup for a couple seasons. Then they could for sure redshirt Alipate and Gray. Colorado and Miami are in this situation and are desperatly trying to get thru the season with one quarterback taking all the snaps.

Gray is vitually running the same plays that Stoudamire could be.

Weber hasn't run the same since he had the minor knee surgery in the middle of last season. Somewhere around the Northwestern or Illinois game.
 

What we need is a QB who can throw on time. Weber keeps scanning the field and heaves it to Decker or is sacked. The practice time should focus on his favorite throws that he can excute on 5, 7 step drops. Those in the shot gun. Now, at those distances where are Stoudemier, Hoese, Green, Bennett or Eskridge, and Tow Arnett. I would bet even money on every play one of the above is wide open and yet he throws to Decker in double, even triple coverage. Its a testament to Decker's ability, and Webers inablity. 30 plus starts and all he can really do is throw it to Decker.

He is a Junior with over 25 starts and this is what its come to. The staff has tied its wagon to Weber rather that than an identity. And by design he no longer is a threat to run.


We are a severly limited offense. We are beyond one dimensional. If I am defending the Gophers I would double team Decker every play, and blitz. There is no run threat. Make Weber beat you.

And for those who want to castisgate Cosgrove, we had two picks one which yielded directly or indirectly 14 points. The offense is miserable. We cann't run, and we can throw.

You cannot win on talent alone. You either have to design your team around the talent. Or use the talent in your system. Can anyone tell me if we are doing either?
 

doddoll68: Oh, you mean the Weber that threw 24 TDs? Heavens no. God forbid, we'd never want to see that Weber again.

Yep. The same one who tossed 19 INT's, a BT passing efficiency of 116 and ranked in the bottom 1/3 of D-1 QB's, sacrificed his body, was overused as the main runner and ran for his life. Great learning experience.
 

This argument has nothing to do with Weber.
Gray is our best running back period.

Gray=1 play vs. Wisconsin? To me that equals an unorganized OC that didn't have a game plan.
Don't put him in at all if its just 1 play. Gray should be touching the ball at least 10 times a game.

So are you telling me that Eskridge is better than Gray? Out of your friggin mind.


AND IF I SEE WEBER OUT AT WR WHEN GRAY COMES IN AT QB I AM GOING TO PUKE. Weber is NO THREAT whatsoever out there. Stoudermire and Pittman both were QB's and both could lap Weber on a 40 yard dash.

The whold point on bringing Gray into the game is athleticism and matchups. Imagine the mismatches bringing in Hayo, Decker, Whaley, Stoudermire, Pittman, Green into the game? Put guys in motion to freeze LB's and speed rushers on the DE for extra protection.
 

husker70 said:
What we need is a QB who can throw on time. Weber keeps scanning the field and heaves it to Decker or is sacked. QUOTE]

If it wasn't for Decker one could make a very valid argument that this team would be 0-5, rather than 3-2. Certainly no better than 1-4.
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Bayfieldgopher said:
doddoll68: Oh, you mean the Weber that threw 24 TDs? Heavens no. God forbid, we'd never want to see that Weber again.

Yep. The same one who tossed 19 INT's, a BT passing efficiency of 116 and ranked in the bottom 1/3 of D-1 QB's, sacrificed his body, was overused as the main runner and ran for his life. Great learning experience.
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'07 Weber: 3,512 yds total offense, 24 TDs passing, 19 INT, 5 TDs rushing, 120.8 passer rating

'09 Weber (on-pace statistics): 2,633 yds total offense, 14 TDs passing, 14 INT, 0 TDs rushing, 122.9 passer rating

Of course you're going to focus on the turnovers. But if you tell me that you wouldn't take an additional 5 INTs at the expense of almost 1,000 yards of offense and 15 TDs, then you are a complete and total idiot.

Face it: Weber is no better, and probably worse, than he was as a RS freshman.
 

I'm on board. Give Gray some time to learn on the job. I've seen more than enough from Weber. Although, frankly, I'm not sure exactly how to assign the blame between the horrid o-line play, Weber's inability to find the open man, throw the ball away, or scramble, and the coaching staff's sometimes incredibly awful game planning and play calling. From what I've seen, though, I think Weber is at best a slightly below mediocre D-1 qb, who's been incredibly lucky to be throwing to one of the best Minnesota receivers of all time.
 

I agree with almost everything you said good post

GoGophers2005 said:
This argument has nothing to do with Weber.
Gray is our best running back period.

Gray=1 play vs. Wisconsin? To me that equals an unorganized OC that didn't have a game plan.
Don't put him in at all if its just 1 play. Gray should be touching the ball at least 10 times a game.

So are you telling me that Eskridge is better than Gray? Out of your friggin mind.


AND IF I SEE WEBER OUT AT WR WHEN GRAY COMES IN AT QB I AM GOING TO PUKE. Weber is NO THREAT whatsoever out there. Stoudermire and Pittman both were QB's and both could lap Weber on a 40 yard dash.

The whold point on bringing Gray into the game is athleticism and matchups. Imagine the mismatches bringing in Hayo, Decker, Whaley, Stoudermire, Pittman, Green into the game? Put guys in motion to freeze LB's and speed rushers on the DE for extra protection.
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I think the Gray issue is sad. If anyone saw that scrimmage last spring he was off the charts good and in that game he wasn't allowed to run. He looked heads above Weber that day. When I spoke with Brewster at a golf outing I was stunned when he told me "He'll play some" to which I replied I must have had a different vantage point because I hadn't seen that kind of talent in a while.

At the minimum, Gray should be getting similar time to what Michael Robinson (the guy who plastered Owens) received at Penn St a few years back where they split time. He started out getting couple of series a game and I would be fine with that. Robinson eventually won that battle and is now a serviceable backup RB at San Fran.

The Weber situation is tough because I hear he's a good leader and he hasn't had a real chance to grow with any offense, as he's seen three seperate systems each year. While he has shown flashes of brilliance, for the most part he has been a one-dimensional drop back passer who has trouble making more than one read. I also think our horrible offensive line is a huge part to Weber's demise, because for the most part he has had zero time. (This is a whole other topic but can we just get rid of Wills. Just because you have size doesn't translate into being able to play RT.)

I like your call on Weber lining up at WR when Gray is in the game. IT IS A TOTAL WASTE OF A MAN. Gray is perfectly capable of throwing the ball. If anything, line Gray up at WR with Stoudamire at QB.

I've also heard through several sources in the program that the Weber situation is sensitive because of his family ties to the U and their relationships with Brew. (I don't know if I believe this, it is just what I hear. The problem is that as I see less and less of Gray, I have to wonder why? It doesn't make sense).

Anyway, the way I see it, give Gray a couple of series per game so we can see how far he is along. His talent is way to high to be riding the pine. A running QB like Gray would give Big 10 D's fits.
 

GoGophers2005 said:
This argument has nothing to do with Weber.
Gray is our best running back period.

Gray=1 play vs. Wisconsin? To me that equals an unorganized OC that didn't have a game plan.
Don't put him in at all if its just 1 play. Gray should be touching the ball at least 10 times a game.

So are you telling me that Eskridge is better than Gray? Out of your friggin mind.


AND IF I SEE WEBER OUT AT WR WHEN GRAY COMES IN AT QB I AM GOING TO PUKE. Weber is NO THREAT whatsoever out there. Stoudermire and Pittman both were QB's and both could lap Weber on a 40 yard dash.

The whold point on bringing Gray into the game is athleticism and matchups. Imagine the mismatches bringing in Hayo, Decker, Whaley, Stoudermire, Pittman, Green into the game? Put guys in motion to freeze LB's and speed rushers on the DE for extra protection.
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Not a bad idea. I would like to see Gray at QB with Weber off the field for 2-4 series a game starting this week. It only will help the future of this program. I'm not a fan of wasted eligibility.
 

This is starting to remind me of the Sims -- Applewhite discussions that ended up dominating every game thread for the longhorns.
 

thailleagle said:
Pryor came in and made an immediate impact while a Senior QB was struggling...so pretty much we're agreeing that Gray isn't as good as Pryor?
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Which one is better has nothing to do with this. Pryor's situation and Gray's situation are completely different.

Pryor had a better O-Line, Beanie Wills, Brian Robiskie and Brian Hartline on his team and a top defense. Ohio St wasn't asking Pryor to win the game on his own. Other than Decker who on the Gopehrs offense is comparable to what Pryor had? Stoudemeier and Green look like they have a chance but to put a freshman QB in with this O-Line and still a defense that needs help and expect him to win games for you is asking for failure IMO.

I haven't been a fan of Weber's since he won the starting QB job but he is not the biggest problem on offense. This is Weber's 3rd OC since he has been here. Gray can not fix the real problem which is the O-Line. And who is to say that Gray even understands how to run this offense?
 

how about this

Play Gray, play Weber when...our running backs learn how to block. I see that they have no idea who to block or how to block. There would be no discussion about our QB play if we could protect the passer.
 

Almost everyone, except Brewster seems to agree that Grey should be thrown in for experience and a change up, and that Weber has his strengths in leadership and toughness, but reading and adjusting to different receivers is beyound his capability. Brewsteris starting to remind me of Mason once he gets something in his head there is no way in hell he is going to change. I like Brewster and the direction of the program, but he has to learn to take a step back and adjust. Joe Pa was once asked how he was able to hold on so long, and he said "not being so bull headed to think I know everything, and being able to adjust".
 

scools12 said:
Which one is better has nothing to do with this. Pryor's situation and Gray's situation are completely different.

Pryor had a better O-Line, Beanie Wills, Brian Robiskie and Brian Hartline on his team and a top defense. Ohio St wasn't asking Pryor to win the game on his own. Other than Decker who on the Gopehrs offense is comparable to what Pryor had? Stoudemeier and Green look like they have a chance but to put a freshman QB in with this O-Line and still a defense that needs help and expect him to win games for you is asking for failure IMO.

I haven't been a fan of Weber's since he won the starting QB job but he is not the biggest problem on offense. This is Weber's 3rd OC since he has been here. Gray can not fix the real problem which is the O-Line. And who is to say that Gray even understands how to run this offense?
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Pryor had the same thing Boekman had so I don't see that as a valid point........

My whole point is not whether Gray this or Gray that...I just want to *SEE* it, let him play, he either is gonna be good or isn't at this point but just freaking give him a series, is that really that much to ask?
 

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