PJ Isn't Going Anywhere

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Pompous Elitist said:
I respectfully disagree. The team will be dealing with ever-increasing costs for everything from staff salaries, benefits to contractors and services. They’re going to have to share at minimum $22M and climbing with the players and potentially a whole lot more if/when players organize. Guaranteeing a large percentage of remaining salary to a coach that wasn’t/isn’t going to get a better deal elsewhere just isn’t smart.
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That’s a completely different conversation.
I’m not arguing about the merits of the contract, I’m simply saying 20 million isn’t a lot of money.
 

Some guy said:
That’s a completely different conversation.
I’m not arguing about the merits of the contract, I’m simply saying 20 million isn’t a lot of money.
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I’m struggling to understand that position considering the profit and loss statements put out by the department, the costs going forward so we’ll have to agree to disagree here. It’s still a large chunk of money.
 

Gophers7NatTitlesBadgers0 said:
Yeah. One would think that PJ would be a higher choice than Deshaun Foster.
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PJ isn’t into #paycuts, despite prior statements. A man has to have some pride.

No better deals out there, unless he pulls a rabbit out of his hat this year or next. Hope springs eternal or we wouldn’t be here.
 

Some guy said:
That’s a completely different conversation.
I’m not arguing about the merits of the contract, I’m simply saying 20 million isn’t a lot of money.
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I think it is for the University of Minnesota athletic department. $10 million is slot for them.
 

Some Day...Maybe said:
I think it is for the University of Minnesota athletic department. $10 million is slot for them.
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Unless they’re really bad at budgeting it’s a pretty easy move to make. And a buyout that isn’t that much different from most buyouts that are out there
 


It's interesting because there is and/or will be probably the most money coming into the athletic department ever, due to the football TV deals. Money that Maturi couldn't even dream of, for example. And PJ is arguably one of the best football coaches in an overall W-L sense.

Yet seems like some high levels of pessimism setting in.
 

Some guy said:
Unless they’re really bad at budgeting it’s a pretty easy move to make. And a buyout that isn’t that much different from most buyouts that are out there
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Just because your buddy is going cliff jumping doesn’t mean you have to. YMMV. Is it money well spent, or promised.
 





GopherWeatherGuy said:
The 2nd half of last night was awful. Every fan should be upset and I get why many are growing tired of PJ, myself included.

But ultimately you can save all of your fire PJ, or who should we hire instead posts for at least another 2 years, because with his buyout, he isn't going anywhere.

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Blame our incompetent AD for negotiating this outrageous clause.
 

Jack jones said:
The only way PJ leaves is if all of us quit buying game tickets. A crowd of. 10,000 or less will force the powers to be, to do something.
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Its coming. These things get negotiated and we do not see the fine print. It is really up to the prez of the U. Being from Michigan, she knows the drill. The sonner Fleck quits, gets fired or what ever the better and him and Coyle can hold hands on the way out.
 


Pompous Elitist said:
Just because your buddy is going cliff jumping doesn’t mean you have to. YMMV. Is it money well spent, or promised.
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Comparing competing for coaches with dollars and contracts to cliff jumping is a poor analogy, in my opinon

But you are correct. We could pay someone 75k per year to be the head coach if we really wanted to.
 



Jack jones said:
The only way PJ leaves is if all of us quit buying game tickets. A crowd of. 10,000 or less will force the powers to be, to do something.
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LOL, as long as the TV money is flowing, they don't GAF about crowd size.
 

disco said:
Beat me to it.
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The admin doesn't care. Football and basketball used to keep the lights on at the athletic department but attendance isn't necessary with big media deals anymore.
 

Some guy said:
Comparing competing for coaches with dollars and contracts to cliff jumping is a poor analogy, in my opinon

But you are correct. We could pay someone 75k per year to be the head coach if we really wanted to.
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Dude…every dollar we spend paying a fired Fleck is less money to hire new coaches and/or pay players and/or preserve non-revenue sports . There is no Daddy Warbucks or money tree out back. Expenses are going up, not just revenue.

You’re arguing Coyle was right to guarantee his salary because “everyone is doing it”. Is that right? If so, why? Does it even make sense when the vast majority of coaches aren’t going to be very good long-term or are flash in the pans like say, Jimbo.

Do we need to pay an AD $1.4M to do the adult version of painting by numbers.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Dude…every dollar we spend paying a fired Fleck is less money to hire new coaches and/or pay players and/or preserve non-revenue sports . There is no Daddy Warbucks or money tree out back. Expenses are going up, not just revenue.

You’re arguing Coyle was right to guarantee his salary because “everyone is doing it”. Is that right? If so, why? Does it even make sense when the vast majority of coaches aren’t going to be very good long-term or are flash in the pans like say, Jimbo.

Do we need to pay an AD $1.4M to do the adult version of painting by numbers.
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I’m not arguing anything.
I’m stating a fact that his buyout is not out of the norm in college football.
And I am admitting your point is correct, we don’t have to pay the AD either! We could pay the AD 100k per year if we wanted to.

Might get different candidates for the job
 

Claeys fired for reasons beyond his one year of results.
Brewster fired after two consecutive losing seasons.
Mason fired after one consecutive losing season.
Wacker fired after four consecutive losing seasons.
Gutekunst fired after one consecutive losing season.
Stoll fired after one consecutive losing season.
Warmath fired after three consecutive losing seasons.

This year is looking bleak for the winning record. Probably 60/40 that Fleck would make it past this year with a losing record (depending how the team looks in the process), but no way he makes it past three losing seasons.
 

Some Day...Maybe said:
The U wouldn’t pay that buyout until 2028 at the earliest and they probably wouldn’t do it even then. Is there a clause if he finds a new coaching or broadcasting job after being fired the buyout is eliminated or reduced
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It all comes down to winning and if you don't your out no matter the buyout.
 

Jack jones said:
The only way PJ leaves is if all of us quit buying game tickets. A crowd of. 10,000 or less will force the powers to be, to do something.
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Gopher season ticket buyers are NOT the only B1G fans in town.

Once the on campus stadium was built the U of M has had NO choice but to keep the newest stadium in the B1G open and to keep their B1G membership to reap the benefits that provides the U of M. Just watch this on campus stadium turn into Lincoln/Omaha East...Iowa North...Wisky west and a lot of graduates from all the B1G schools live in the Twin Cities Metro area. You can always count on 3,000 to 5,000 fans living in the Twin Cities when tOSU, Michigan MSU, Northwestern, even Purdue show up when their teams are in town.

Unless Fleck wants out of here don't look for him to do the suits at the U any favors about negotiating a buy out on the cheap. Just being a B1G conference member is something Iowa State or many midwestern states would kill for. Kansas, Kansas State and most likely any state not already in the B1G or SEC would love to have a full shar3e of the B1G revenue sharing plan.

North and South Dakota need not apply...or even the Tommies. ;0)

Since when will Coyle rush to fire his guy Fleck?
 
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So, y'all're okey-dokey with his record versus Iowa and Wisconsin?
 


GopherGrit said:
It's interesting because there is and/or will be probably the most money coming into the athletic department ever, due to the football TV deals. Money that Maturi couldn't even dream of, for example. And PJ is arguably one of the best football coaches in an overall W-L sense.

Yet seems like some high levels of pessimism setting in.
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based on? overall and B10 records
Ryan Day: 59-8, 39-3; .88, .928
Lincoln Riley: 76-19, 37-7 at OU, 13-7 at USC; .8, .781
Dan Lanning: 25-5, 15-3; .833, .833
James Franklin: 91-39, 56-32 at PSU, 11-13 at Vandy; .7, .598
Kirk Ferentz: 199-120, 123-85 at Iowa, 8-16 at Maine; .638, .53
Luke Fickell: 73-32, 3-5 at OSU, 35-11 at Cinci, 5-4 at WI; .695, .683
Matt Rhule: 55-51, 19-13 at Temple, 13-14 at Baylor, 3-7 at Neb; .519, .507
Jonathan Smith: 37-36, 23-29 at Or St, 1-0 at MSU; .507, .453
Jedd Fisch: 19-22, 1-0 at UCLA, 11-16 at Arizona, 1-0 at Wash; .463, .448
Sherrone Moore: 4-1, 1-0; .8, 1.0
Bert Bielema: 119-77, 37-19 at WI, 11-29 at Ark, 13-15 at Ill; .607, .491
Greg Schiano: 90-95, 37-74; .486, .333
Mike Locksley: 34-60, 2-15 at UNM, 15-33 at MD; .362, .261
Curt Cignetti (only D1 to avoid his IUP and Elon records which are good): 56-9, 31-4 at JMU, 1-0 at IU; ..862, .889
David Braun: 10-7, 5-5; .588, .5
Ryan Walters: 5-10, 3-6; .333, .333
Deshaun Foster: 1-2, 0-1; .333, 0
PJ Fleck: 82-58, 21-11 at WMU, 29-33 at MN; .586, .532

So his overall win % is 11th and conf record is 9th. If you want just big ten record it gets worse and especially if you look at in the light of playing in the atrocious B10 West. He's middle of the road at best. Which I guess depends on how you view "best" and unfortunately the trend line does not look good. Add to that his rivalry/trophy game record (MI: 0-3. WI: 3-4. IA: 1-7. PSU: 1-1. NE: 6-1) and I don't know how you can feel good about where we're at, especially when you view IA and WI should be the measuring sticks to where we're at as a program year by year.
 

A lot of these big buyouts are paid by boosters - not the school. A Texas school that wants to buy out the coach can call up a couple of oil men/boosters and raise the buyout pronto. At MN, there is no equivalent. No fat cat is going to cough up $20 million to get rid of Fleck.
 


Torres9 said:
Fire Coyle. Suck it up with fleck until after next season - he won’t be here longer than that.
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Who will do that? The new prexy at the U may have more things on her plate at this time. Such as winning the hearts and minds of state legislators and the Governor and the people who hold the strings to the state budget that funds the U of M.
 

Some guy said:
I’m not arguing anything.
I’m stating a fact that his buyout is not out of the norm in college football.
And I am admitting your point is correct, we don’t have to pay the AD either! We could pay the AD 100k per year if we wanted to.

Might get different candidates for the job
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There’s a lot real estate between 100K and $1.4M or whatever the number is now. He’s (I’d argue) overpaid but has the fortune of being in a business where the majority of the “workers” are not paid market wages (yet) and there is plenty of sugar to spread around.

Guaranteeing salary, a solid raise made a heckuva lot of sense in winter 2020 but not sure about winter 2023-2024 in the midst of a dumpster fire season and a lack of West championships. The Big Ten along with the SEC can afford to take chances on the best up and coming coaches.

In the “real world” many people are on production contracts with maybe a low or moderate base and unlimited upside based on production. Not sure why that model eg $1M per win hasn’t taken off other than coaches have leverage over fearful ADs and fanbases and hey, coaches like guaranteed money as much as anyone else. Lottery money.
 


GopherMarroon said:
Foster was a star at UCLA, star in the NFL. He was an assistant at UCLA. He was in the pipeline, no HC experience, on the job training.
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I'm not sure if you are arguing against my statement? The only thing that makes sense is that Foster is more familiar with the program. Fleck's resume is clearly more impressive.
 

Gophers7NatTitlesBadgers0 said:
I'm not sure if you are arguing against my statement? The only thing that makes sense is that Foster is more familiar with the program. Fleck's resume is clearly more impressive.
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I think anyone not Foster was never even under consideration. Not for or against.
 

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