PJ Fleck interview on Sunday, Jan 5 (2020)

Donate To GopherHole
It isn’t enough to go 11-2 and beat Auburn. We need to continue to also sell it as some rise from complete crap defying the laws of physics along the way. We mainly know how “bad it was” because PJ told us - yet he never dialed back expectations either. :unsure:
 

So glad we get to keep having this discussion over and over again. Had really hoped this past season would heal some old wounds but the extremes on both sides just can't let it go.

Vast majority of the board can appreciate the past while being excited about the future but the small vocal handful on both sides just can't help but keep rehashing the same crap constantly. Good times.
 

GFBfan said:
Nope. You have your beliefs, I have mine.
I feel Kill/Claeys would have taken the next step and gotten us to this level.
Kill started in a very different place than PJ, with more challenges especially with admin support and facilities, so it is understandable that PJ would be further along.
As far as Coyle supporting them. Agreed he had no desire to keep TC, but I think he would have been more receptive to JK had he still been around. (Unless JK started acting like the tool he has become of late that is:eek:)
Click to expand...

I liked Jerry Kill, but he may have been his own worse enemy during his time here. Consider these:
1. Limegrover was not a good OC. This is where loyalty to his staff was a detriment.
2. He couldn't develop a QB at Minnesota, and when he had Streveler, a future CFL champion, he chased him off.
3. His recruiting wasn't going to bring the team anywhere near the talent level of Wisconsin or Iowa.
4. Unfortunately his health was a factor too. Jerry really worked too hard. There didn't seem to be a fund raiser or event he missed. He was all over Minnesota plus gave speeches out of state. Maybe if he didn't do all those PR events, his health may have not been an issue.

I wish Jerry the best, and if I ever meet him, I will thank him for what he did for Gopher football.
 
Last edited:

Gold Rush said:
In retrospect, 1) Coyle made the right move in firing Claeys when he did, 2) He made a HR hire with Fleck and 3) He wasted no time in doing it like almost every U of M search committee did in the past. Coyle made all the right moves on this one.
Click to expand...

Maybe search committees can work, but I hope I never see another one again. Or the hiring of an outside agency. If the AD can't handle finding a solid new coach, they have no business being an athletic director at a major school.
 



Claeys probably could have had a good defense for years, and that would have been nice to see, at the time at least. It was very comforting to see great DB play and games like we saw in 2014, 2015 and 2016 on defense.

TC also tried to fix the offense, and did not have much time to do that.

None of this matters any more. The big man is gone, and PJF proved all us doubters completely wrong.

This whole debate needs to wither and dry up.
 

GFBfan said:
Nope. You have your beliefs, I have mine.
I feel Kill/Claeys would have taken the next step and gotten us to this level.
Kill started in a very different place than PJ, with more challenges especially with admin support and facilities, so it is understandable that PJ would be further along.
As far as Coyle supporting them. Agreed he had no desire to keep TC, but I think he would have been more receptive to JK had he still been around. (Unless JK started acting like the tool he has become of late that is:eek:)
Click to expand...
I like kill but he could never find a good quarterback. No way he could have got us as level
 

mjfelton15 said:
Yeah well since Jerry Kill left, but then continued to try coaching elsewhere (which I find to be quite peculiar, because he seemed like he had to be seriously done for his health), we’ll never know where we’d be had he stayed. I don’t wish we could go back, or undo what’s been done though. I’m happy with 11-2 with wins against Penn State and Auburn, happy to be part of the CFP conversation until the final week of the season, happy that we might end up in the Top 10 AP Poll to conclude the season. I also think Coyle is too new wave and “hip” to ever really connect that well with an old school mind like Kill, just my opinion. I don’t picture them having a nice dinner together and having much in common. Coyle wanted young, flashy, and an up-and-comer. I’m really curious though, and this isn’t me trying to argue about it, but why couldn’t Kill or Claeys ever land someone better than Leidner? Serious question. Because I’d see a school like Tennessee Tech with 10x the accuracy and a way better arm than Leidner, or any QB Kill and Claeys were able to land. Why did we not have anyone that could draw a decent QB? I know the staff wanted us to be a run heavy offense, but teams have been moving toward a balanced/RPO offense for awhile now. Leidner’s 4 INT’s against Wisconsin, when we had a shot at winning the Big Ten West, was truly the best QB we could get? All we needed was Leidner to manage the game. He didn’t have to be anything close to spectacular, just not total shit the bed.
Click to expand...
I agree on Mitch Leidner, but here is an interesting thought. What would Leidner have looked like with Fleck and his offensive system? Or Adam Weber? We will never know, but I bet they would have done a lot better. I think the offense is perfect in finding open receivers with high percentage passes. I have nothing but high praise for Tanner Morgan as everyone else, but if you would have given him a new offense every year with different coaches and schemes, he would have had a lot more problems. I still feel bad for Weber - he could have had a much better career here but he was hung out to dry by a head coach who did not know what he was doing.
 

Gold Rush said:
I agree on Mitch Leidner, but here is an interesting thought. What would Leidner have looked like with Fleck and his offensive system? Or Adam Weber? We will never know, but I bet they would have done a lot better. I think the offense is perfect in finding open receivers with high percentage passes. I have nothing but high praise for Tanner Morgan as everyone else, but if you would have given him a new offense every year with different coaches and schemes, he would have had a lot more problems. I still feel bad for Weber - he could have had a much better career here but he was hung out to dry by a head coach who did not know what he was doing.
Click to expand...

This came up in another thread as well. Would love to have seen Weber in this offense, think he would have had a lot of success. Morgan is more accurate then Weber was but Weber was a better runner than Morgan. I am sure Leidner would have benefitted a lot as well in this system but his overall limitations would have kept his ceiling pretty low.
 



MNVCGUY said:
This came up in another thread as well. Would love to have seen Weber in this offense, think he would have had a lot of success. Morgan is more accurate then Weber was but Weber was a better runner than Morgan. I am sure Leidner would have benefitted a lot as well in this system but his overall limitations would have kept his ceiling pretty low.
Click to expand...

I will buy that. Mitch would have been a much better player if he had played a different position. He was one of the toughest kids we have ever had here and a tough runner. He probably should have been a LB or TE. No one ever doubted his toughness or competitiveness, that's for sure.
 

Gold Rush said:
I will buy that. Mitch would have been a much better player if he had played a different position. He was one of the toughest kids we have ever had here and a tough runner. He probably should have been a LB or TE. No one ever doubted his toughness or competitiveness, that's for sure.
Click to expand...

This current staff would probably have used him very similar to the way they use Seth Green. Right from the beginning Mitch seemed destined to play a different position here but the old staff was never able to find/develop a QB that could beat him out.

Kill's staff did a good job finding a lot of quality players but QB recruiting/development was definitely one of their weakest spots.
 

MNVCGUY said:
This current staff would probably have used him very similar to the way they use Seth Green. Right from the beginning Mitch seemed destined to play a different position here but the old staff was never able to find/develop a QB that could beat him out.

Kill's staff did a good job finding a lot of quality players but QB recruiting/development was definitely one of their weakest spots.
Click to expand...
I think the most refreshing change that Kill brought was an emphasis on defense and developing top defensive players. After years of Brewster and even Mason before that, it was really nice to put a good defense together. Loved Mase's offense but if he would have been able to put a good defense together he might still be coaching today!! You are right no one could beat out Leidner, but I do not know how or why they weren't able to find someone who could throw better than that!!
 

WAGopher said:
4. Unfortunately his health was a factor too. Jerry really worked too hard. There didn't seem to be a fund raiser or event he missed. He was all over Minnesota plus gave speeches out of state. Maybe if he didn't do all those PR events, his health may have not been an issue.

I wish Jerry the best, and if I ever meet him, I will thank him for what he did for Gopher football.
Click to expand...

And if he didn't do that, we probably don't get the Athlete's village started and without that, PJ probably passes on an offer from Minnesota.
 



Gold Rush said:
I think the most refreshing change that Kill brought was an emphasis on defense and developing top defensive players. After years of Brewster and even Mason before that, it was really nice to put a good defense together. Loved Mase's offense but if he would have been able to put a good defense together he might still be coaching today!! You are right no one could beat out Leidner, but I do not know how or why they weren't able to find someone who could throw better than that!!
Click to expand...

The story of the Mason years was really good offense and very spotty defense. The story of the Kill years became really strong defense with an offense that didn't seem to understand how the forward pass worked.

Prior to Rob Smith getting fired, Fleck seemed to be heading back down the Mason path, good on offense bad on defense. In 2019 though we finally got reminded of what it looks like when the offense and defense both play well at the same time. Now we just need to maintain the level of defense and hopefully bring special teams along for the ride. In addition to defense, special teams was another area where Kill's teams seemed to be very strong in general. Definite area that needs improvement under Fleck. Hopefully we can find a kicker that can deposit kickoffs in the endzone, and I like that we are joining the Aussie Punter revolution. Think I heard on one of the telecasts during bowl season that there are something like 40 Aussie Punters in D1 football right now. If you don't have one these days you are behind the times apparently.
 

MNVCGUY said:
The story of the Mason years was really good offense and very spotty defense. The story of the Kill years became really strong defense with an offense that didn't seem to understand how the forward pass worked.

Prior to Rob Smith getting fired, Fleck seemed to be heading back down the Mason path, good on offense bad on defense. In 2019 though we finally got reminded of what it looks like when the offense and defense both play well at the same time. Now we just need to maintain the level of defense and hopefully bring special teams along for the ride. In addition to defense, special teams was another area where Kill's teams seemed to be very strong in general. Definite area that needs improvement under Fleck. Hopefully we can find a kicker that can deposit kickoffs in the endzone, and I like that we are joining the Aussie Punter revolution. Think I heard on one of the telecasts during bowl season that there are something like 40 Aussie Punters in D1 football right now. If you don't have one these days you are behind the times apparently.
Click to expand...
I know - we have a lot of work to do on special teams, but I am sure it will be addressed. Lantz actually was fairly solid on FG's from 40 yards in, but it would be nice to have him add a little more distance with accuracy. I am intrigued on seeing our new punter and hopefully he will help. Adding distance on kickoffs will be huge on coverage!

This team was in big trouble before we fired DC Smith and after he left it was like flipping a switch with the defensive improvement. I like the defensive players Fleck is bringing in and that should help the defense remain strong. They may be young, but I have a feeling we may see some of them play as true freshmen. I think Joyner is going to be a future star and Brown is going to be a beast. I would really like to see Fleck build on this with a solid class next year. If you remember, Mase had his 10-3 season and we all hoped the next year's class would be noticeably improved but that did not happen. Hopefully, Fleck will put the pedal to the metal and bring in some really good help in the recruiting!!
 

Gold Rush said:
I know - we have a lot of work to do on special teams, but I am sure it will be addressed. Lantz actually was fairly solid on FG's from 40 yards in, but it would be nice to have him add a little more distance with accuracy. I am intrigued on seeing our new punter and hopefully he will help. Adding distance on kickoffs will be huge on coverage!

This team was in big trouble before we fired DC Smith and after he left it was like flipping a switch with the defensive improvement. I like the defensive players Fleck is bringing in and that should help the defense remain strong. They may be young, but I have a feeling we may see some of them play as true freshmen. I think Joyner is going to be a future star and Brown is going to be a beast. I would really like to see Fleck build on this with a solid class next year. If you remember, Mase had his 10-3 season and we all hoped the next year's class would be noticeably improved but that did not happen. Hopefully, Fleck will put the pedal to the metal and bring in some really good help in the recruiting!!
Click to expand...
This is the line of thinking that has to go away. We've got multiple underclassmen that have been in the system for up to 3 years. Some have gotten significant playing time while others haven't, because there were Seniors. who were ahead of them. We are at a point that we shouldn't have to see many true FR competing for a spot, unless they are an absolute stud like Bateman last year.
 



WAGopher said:
3. His recruiting wasn't going to bring the team anywhere near the talent level of Wisconsin or Iowa.
Click to expand...
IMO, this is tough to say for sure.

Yes you have to have talent as a salesman, but you also need a high-end product to sell, to land the high-end recruit.

Wisconsin and Iowa's head coaches haven't really struck me as fancy salesmen. More down to earth, regular joe's, if anything. But their product is pretty good. "We've been stable, winning football teams for the last 10-15 years. We sell out 70-80k per game. You're the kings of the campus. We have great facilities. We put guys in the NFL." etc.

Kill couldn't say that. That was his dream, to build into that. His health didn't allow him to continue chasing it.
 

MplsGopher said:
IMO, this is tough to say for sure.

Yes you have to have talent as a salesman, but you also need a high-end product to sell, to land the high-end recruit.

Wisconsin and Iowa's head coaches haven't really struck me as fancy salesmen. More down to earth, regular joe's, if anything. But their product is pretty good. "We've been stable, winning football teams for the last 10-15 years. We sell out 70-80k per game. You're the kings of the campus. We have great facilities. We put guys in the NFL." etc.

Kill couldn't say that. That was his dream, to build into that. His health didn't allow him to continue chasing it.
Click to expand...

His health didn't let him ... he also made a choice. He did not have to quit, he said he felt he had to ... but the only person who made that rule was Kill.

I think he regrets it.
 

swingman said:
We had 13 scholarship olinemen that Fall of 2017 (three were true frosh) and two walk-on olinemen.
This Fall of 2020, we may have 14 scholarship olinemen (three will be true frosh, one will be a grayshirt frosh) and two walk ons.

We still need about 8 scholarship players to check their compass and sacrifice their spot in the Boat Family, so it is very possible we could be in a worse situation numbers wise on the oline in Fall 2020 than we were in Fall 2017.
Click to expand...
The OL in the 2017 season seems pretty decent to me, at least the starters. Looking at the depth chart going into the Wisconsin game, we had:
LT - Greene (r-jr)
LG - Wright (r-sr)
C - Olson (r-fr)
RG - Calhoun (sr)
RT - Schlueter (r-fr)

Andries (fr) was the backup at both tackles, luckily we didn't need to burn his redshirt. Dovich and Oseland were the interior backups, and as I recall they both got some meaningful playing time due to injuries and did alright. (both transferred after being denied playing time in 2018, if I recall correctly)


For 2020, we'll have 4 solid starters in the interior, plus Andries can play T if needed, and 2 solid starting T's. Hopefully Dickson will figure it out this spring and be able to contribute as a senior. And I'm looking forward to the development of Guedet and Cooper.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom