PJ Fleck compares Gophers' 'line of success' to the stock market

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RememberMurray said:
Your expectations are your expectations; you have every right to set them as you choose... just like the rest of us.

Speaking of: What are your own expectations? Please be specific. Wins per year, every year... maybe set a floor and a ceiling for win totals, based on your expectations.

And... regarding the "$6 or $7 million dollars" part: does anyone know how Fleck's salary compares to other B1G coaches?
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In reverse order - I believe I read where PJ was 8th in the B10 for Salary.

As an educator, it was always about setting the expectations with kids high but acheivable. Those expectations have to be something a student can't acheive without putting the hard work in.

We hear the word "Elite" thrown out there quite a bit with the program - but is that an empty gesture? They have never really defined what their expectations were to the public. Consequently, the team has a year like they do now, and nobody really knows what to make of it. The optic is that it was a down year, followed by the perception (maybe reality) that they weren't coached up. I would not call either of the games vs. Michigan or Ohio state Elite in any way - Coaching, Play. or Abiility to watch.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Your first part is definitely a big reason for the frustration. We lost some very winnable games and that sucks.

In regards to your last line you are not recalling things correctly....no coach in their right mind would promise something like that.
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Yea I maybe worded that badly, wasn’t there something about not understanding the doom and gloom attitude about the program? That it was going to be in the past and such. Not saying there hasn’t been some progress in that regard for sure, but some of the losses this year are triggers.

Of course I also might have dreamed this and be full of sh@t!
 


RememberMurray said:
Your expectations are your expectations; you have every right to set them as you choose... just like the rest of us.

Speaking of: What are your own expectations? Please be specific. Wins per year, every year... maybe set a floor and a ceiling for win totals, based on your expectations.

And... regarding the "$6 or $7 million dollars" part: does anyone know how Fleck's salary compares to other B1G coaches?
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My expectations...they vary based on the schedule and what PJ tells me. I believe I started a thread in August asking what the heck PJ was doing? He was praising this team at every chance, best this, best that, best in all his years. Great guys, hardest working...on and on. Not normal...coaches downplay the optimism prior to the season. So, I expected us to be competitive.

We have won 5 games. I expected us to beat NW, Illinois at home and Purdue was 2 and 7 when we played them. I expected us to beat those three teams and end up with 8 wins minimum. How we got there I didn't know between Wisconsin, Iowa and North Carolina ... I thought we'd win at least one...maybe all.
We don't upset teams too often so I didn't expect us to beat Michigan at home or Ohio St on the road.
Based on PJ and my hopes 8 wins for sure with 10 regular season wins plus a bowl game possible.
So however we got there 8 wins minimum were my expectations.

Next year...who is the QB? Who leaves? Who do we get in the portal?
Right now, my expectations for next year are pretty low.
 



60's Guy said:
So, I'm the only one unhappy? 5 wins is fine with everybody but me?
5 wins is Elite?
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Com on man......you know that is BS. Nobody is happy about 5 wins (especially the players and coaches who bust their asses trying to win games). But seasons like this happen, so the reasonable approach is not to overreact to one down year.

There is very little Fleck can do to address all of this right now. After the season ends is when changes get made to the staff, roster, philosophy..... If we are right back in this same place again next year at this time there will be some very different conversations happening.
 



Some guy said:
Did not realize Rossi told the all American to blow that coverage against Illinois. Thanks for clearing that up
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TBF, IIRC the soft defense, kneecapping of most effective defensive unit led up to the final collapse. Me knowing nothing, on passing downs opposing coordinators bring an extra man or two versus our starter with pretty good results.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Com on man......you know that is BS. Nobody is happy about 5 wins (especially the players and coaches who bust their asses trying to win games). But seasons like this happen, so the reasonable approach is not to overreact to one down year.

There is very little Fleck can do to address all of this right now. After the season ends is when changes get made to the staff, roster, philosophy..... If we are right back in this same place again next year at this time there will be some very different conversations happening.
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This season will end either 5-7, 6-7 or 7-6. In the Fleck era, that would be the second or third-worst of his 7 seasons to date.

So far, that is the floor, and the occasional 11-2 season is the ceiling, with the average season having 8 or 9 wins with a bowl win included.

That's the objective reality, after 7 seasons.

If any fan finds that unacceptable, that's his or her prerogative. If that's deemed unacceptable, then P.J. Fleck has been successful in raising expectations here. If anyone thinks Fleck's won-lost record is unacceptable, please tell us what your expectations are, and be specific. I've already heard the subjective stuff, like "Don't ever blow a lead". I'm more interested in wins and losses.
 

60's Guy said:
So, I'm the only one unhappy? 5 wins is fine with everybody but me?
5 wins is Elite?
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Does using the word "elite" refer to something we always are, or something we're always striving to be? I always took it as the latter, since no team is "elite" 100% of the time. Sounds as though you interpreted as a promise to be perpetually "elite".

I'll ask the same question again: what are your own expectations for Minnesota football? Are they measurable in wins and losses? If so, how many wins and losses are acceptable, year over year, to you?
 




RememberMurray said:
If on third down a team fails to pick up a first down, is it on the coaches or on the players?
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It's on Fleck for trying to run out the clock for an entire quarter at Northwestern. His passing game was 13-16 for three quarters. Use it to get some first downs. He didn't.

He had Taylor hurt on the sidelines but Evans ready to go. Use him and get some first downs. He didn't.

Rossi had Illinois at 4th and 11 and a cold reserve QB coming in to pass from around his own goal line. Rather than bring extreme pressure he elects to let him stand around two minutes waiting for his All-League receiver to find a hole in the defense. A couple of plays later, the same no-pressure front allows him to stand around half an hour while his All-League receiver runs to Oak Street behind the defense.

Fleck and Rossi each lost a game.
 

Dakota2 said:
It's on Fleck for trying to run out the clock for an entire quarter at Northwestern. His passing game was 13-16 for three quarters. Use it to get some first downs. He didn't.

He had Taylor hurt on the sidelines but Evans ready to go. Use him and get some first downs. He didn't.

Rossi had Illinois at 4th and 11 and a cold reserve QB coming in to pass from around his own goal line. Rather than bring extreme pressure he elects to let him stand around two minutes waiting for his All-League receiver to find a hole in the defense. A couple of plays later, the same no-pressure front allows him to stand around half an hour while his All-League receiver runs to Oak Street behind the defense.

Fleck and Rossi each lost a game.
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Some guy said:
Did not realize Rossi told the all American to blow that coverage against Illinois. Thanks for clearing that up
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Did you also realize it was a bad idea to give the All-League receiver half a day to run behind everyone when full-out pressure on a cold, backup QB would have taken away that possibility?
 

RememberMurray said:
This season will end either 5-7, 6-7 or 7-6. In the Fleck era, that would be the second or third-worst of his 7 seasons to date.

So far, that is the floor, and the occasional 11-2 season is the ceiling, with the average season having 8 or 9 wins with a bowl win included.

That's the objective reality, after 7 seasons.

If any fan finds that unacceptable, that's his or her prerogative. If that's deemed unacceptable, then P.J. Fleck has been successful in raising expectations here. If anyone thinks Fleck's won-lost record is unacceptable, please tell us what your expectations are, and be specific. I've already heard the subjective stuff, like "Don't ever blow a lead". I'm more interested in wins and losses.
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The ups and downs are based on talent, primarily. This year we had the talent to win eight games on our schedule. We have won five with one to play.
 

RememberMurray said:
This season will end either 5-7, 6-7 or 7-6. In the Fleck era, that would be the second or third-worst of his 7 seasons to date.

So far, that is the floor, and the occasional 11-2 season is the ceiling, with the average season having 8 or 9 wins with a bowl win included.

That's the objective reality, after 7 seasons.

If any fan finds that unacceptable, that's his or her prerogative. If that's deemed unacceptable, then P.J. Fleck has been successful in raising expectations here. If anyone thinks Fleck's won-lost record is unacceptable, please tell us what your expectations are, and be specific. I've already heard the subjective stuff, like "Don't ever blow a lead". I'm more interested in wins and losses.
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A lot of people are also interested in whether you competed well with better talent, whether you actually beat someone with better talent, and whether you beat everyone you were better than.

If you only care about wins and losses check in at the end of the year
 

Dakota2 said:
Did you also realize it was a bad idea to give the All-League receiver half a day to run behind everyone when full-out pressure on a cold, backup QB would have taken away that possibility?
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lol
 

RememberMurray said:
Does using the word "elite" refer to something we always are, or something we're always striving to be? I always took it as the latter, since no team is "elite" 100% of the time. Sounds as though you interpreted as a promise to be perpetually "elite".

I'll ask the same question again: what are your own expectations for Minnesota football? Are they measurable in wins and losses? If so, how many wins and losses are acceptable, year over year, to you?
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Did you read post #36?
 

Pompous Elitist said:
TBF, IIRC the soft defense, kneecapping of most effective defensive unit led up to the final collapse. Me knowing nothing, on passing downs opposing coordinators bring an extra man or two versus our starter with pretty good results.
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Often times blitzes give up bigger plays than non blitzes

The big plays against northwestern and Illinois were because of coaching errors in teaching M-F, not calls on Sat

When you play 2 high and your half field safety jumps a 10 yard under, that is an execution error not scheme error. Which is still on the coaches but in a totally different way


There are many calls that could work. There are few that work when not executing. Call a blitz and don’t execute and everyone asks why they blitzes. Illinois play they ran a twist and got a hit on the QB.
 
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Dakota2 said:
A lot of people are also interested in whether you competed well with better talent, whether you actually beat someone with better talent, and whether you beat everyone you were better than.

If you only care about wins and losses check in at the end of the year
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You're entitled to your feelings. I'm not going to argue with you about how you feel; that would be ridiculous.

If you're disappointed, angry, sad about the season you're certainly not alone.
 


Dakota2 said:
It's on Fleck for trying to run out the clock for an entire quarter at Northwestern. His passing game was 13-16 for three quarters. Use it to get some first downs. He didn't.

He had Taylor hurt on the sidelines but Evans ready to go. Use him and get some first downs. He didn't.

Rossi had Illinois at 4th and 11 and a cold reserve QB coming in to pass from around his own goal line. Rather than bring extreme pressure he elects to let him stand around two minutes waiting for his All-League receiver to find a hole in the defense. A couple of plays later, the same no-pressure front allows him to stand around half an hour while his All-League receiver runs to Oak Street behind the defense.

Fleck and Rossi each lost a game.
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Taylor played on all the drives of the 4th quarter except for the kneel down at the end but don't let facts get in the way.

I am sure there are things the coaches would do differently in both those games if they had a do over. But the players failed to make plays as well. Nubin took some horrible angles, Athan missed a wide open TE to ice the Illinois game....the players share in the blame.....most are willing to admit that with the exception of the handful determined to fault the coaches for everything and hold the players completely blameless for the struggles this year.
 



Some guy said:
Often times blitzes give up bigger plays than non blitzes

The big plays against northwestern and Illinois were because of coaching errors in teaching M-F, not calls on Sat

When you play 2 high and your half field safety jumps a 10 yard under, that is an execution error not scheme error. Which is still on the coaches but in a totally different way


There are many calls that could work. There are few that work when not executing. Call a blitz and don’t execute and everyone asks why they blitzes. Illinois play they ran a twist and got a hit on the QB.
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I’d be fine with a 4 man rush. Extra pressure though, seems to work better versus inexperienced or slow processor types. Illinois game seemed tailor-made to at least bring four rather than hope for good coverage with a bad back seven. I don’t get it.

Any call can be argued for or against, I suppose. Rush two. Maybe having an extra lineman standing between the hashes will work.
 

Dakota2 said:
It's on Fleck for trying to run out the clock for an entire quarter at Northwestern. His passing game was 13-16 for three quarters. Use it to get some first downs. He didn't.

He had Taylor hurt on the sidelines but Evans ready to go. Use him and get some first downs. He didn't.

Rossi had Illinois at 4th and 11 and a cold reserve QB coming in to pass from around his own goal line. Rather than bring extreme pressure he elects to let him stand around two minutes waiting for his All-League receiver to find a hole in the defense. A couple of plays later, the same no-pressure front allows him to stand around half an hour while his All-League receiver runs to Oak Street behind the defense.

Fleck and Rossi each lost a game.
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Coaching staff also put us in a position to win those games by having it be that close in the end. You can be glass half full or glass half empty. Quarterback is the common denominator in both losses. If you have a 60% passer you have two more wins and not a gut wrenching loss where the focus is entirely on one bad defensive call and not all of the stupid shit that should've happened on offense leading up to that. The only mistake the staff has made is having Kaliakmanis at qb. You can pick a play or two, I could pick 4-6-8 easy pitch and catches per game that were over or under shot or thrown behind the receiver or picked off which would've fundamentally altered the outcomes of those games. All because we have an inaccurate qb without a basic skill set who shouldn't be starting at the power 5 level. Qb is the most important player on the field and you can't have a 50% passer with zero touch running your ball control offense.
 

Dakota2 said:
The ups and downs are based on talent, primarily. This year we had the talent to win eight games on our schedule. We have won five with one to play.
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Your ability to size up the talent on the roster and use that assessment to precisely calculate the exact number of wins we should have had is simply extraordinary. Almost supernatural.

Hats off to you, Dak.
 


RememberMurray said:
Does using the word "elite" refer to something we always are, or something we're always striving to be? I always took it as the latter, since no team is "elite" 100% of the time. Sounds as though you interpreted as a promise to be perpetually "elite".

I'll ask the same question again: what are your own expectations for Minnesota football? Are they measurable in wins and losses? If so, how many wins and losses are acceptable, year over year, to you?
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This season has not passed the eye test. I know shitty football when I see it and if anybody here says this year has been anything other than shitty then PJ could pretty much roll anything out and you would defend him.
 

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