Pitino

[EG#9]

This is way too premature. Everyone is winning their home games so far in the B1G. Let's wait until he wraps up his second winning conference season in 7 years before we make proclamations about doing a good job. Right now both Wisconsin and Iowa are projected as tournament teams right now by Lunardi and the Gophers are not. That's certainly not acceptable to me, much less worthy of praise. The Gophers are playing much better than they were early in the season and at least have a chance at a winning conference season at this moment which seemed unthinkable a month or so ago (as it did for Iowa and Wisconsin).

I don't blame Pitino for how he's used/not used his bench, but his recruiting is an issue. If a Nnaji or Hurt was on this roster, they would be comfortably in the tournament right now. If one of at least a half dozen point guards that were targeted last cycle were on this roster, they would have won at least one of those non-conference games where Carr was terrible and he wouldn't have to play 40 minutes a game right now. The issue really isn't playing 7 or 8 guys, it's that a few of those guys in that rotation are limited to very specific roles. Alihan does certain things well, Jarvis does certain things well, Peyton hasn't really had a nice game since his return from injury. Outside of Gabe getting hot from 3, I am not sure where the scoring comes from if Daniel or Marcus has an off game or simply gets in foul trouble. Fortunately, other teams in the B1G are equally limited this year and don't have a player of Daniel's caliber which gives the Gophers a chance to finish in the upper half of the B1G in a very strange year.

 

[bga1]

This is way too premature. Everyone is winning their home games so far in the B1G. Let's wait until he wraps up his second winning conference season in 7 years before we make proclamations about doing a good job. Right now both Wisconsin and Iowa are projected as tournament teams right now by Lunardi and the Gophers are not. That's certainly not acceptable to me, much less worthy of praise. The Gophers are playing much better than they were early in the season and at least have a chance at a winning conference season at this moment which seemed unthinkable a month or so ago (as it did for Iowa and Wisconsin).

I don't blame Pitino for how he's used/not used his bench, but his recruiting is an issue. If a Nnaji or Hurt was on this roster, they would be comfortably in the tournament right now. If one of at least a half dozen point guards that were targeted last cycle were on this roster, they would have won at least one of those non-conference games where Carr was terrible and he wouldn't have to play 40 minutes a game right now. The issue really isn't playing 7 or 8 guys, it's that a few of those guys in that rotation are limited to very specific roles. Alihan does certain things well, Jarvis does certain things well, Peyton hasn't really had a nice game since his return from injury. Outside of Gabe getting hot from 3, I am not sure where the scoring comes from if Daniel or Marcus has an off game or simply gets in foul trouble. Fortunately, other teams in the B1G are equally limited this year and don't have a player of Daniel's caliber which gives the Gophers a chance to finish in the upper half of the B1G in a very strange year.

He is doing a good job so far. It is not way to premature to say that. This is a fun team to watch and he is coaching what he has well.

 

[gophereric30]

Players r developing in practice aren’t they? Getting coached-up and all that.

Yes they will be ready next year!

 

[Gopherfan84]

This is way too premature. Everyone is winning their home games so far in the B1G. Let's wait until he wraps up his second winning conference season in 7 years before we make proclamations about doing a good job. Right now both Wisconsin and Iowa are projected as tournament teams right now by Lunardi and the Gophers are not. That's certainly not acceptable to me, much less worthy of praise. The Gophers are playing much better than they were early in the season and at least have a chance at a winning conference season at this moment which seemed unthinkable a month or so ago (as it did for Iowa and Wisconsin).

I don't blame Pitino for how he's used/not used his bench, but his recruiting is an issue. If a Nnaji or Hurt was on this roster, they would be comfortably in the tournament right now. If one of at least a half dozen point guards that were targeted last cycle were on this roster, they would have won at least one of those non-conference games where Carr was terrible and he wouldn't have to play 40 minutes a game right now. The issue really isn't playing 7 or 8 guys, it's that a few of those guys in that rotation are limited to very specific roles. Alihan does certain things well, Jarvis does certain things well, Peyton hasn't really had a nice game since his return from injury. Outside of Gabe getting hot from 3, I am not sure where the scoring comes from if Daniel or Marcus has an off game or simply gets in foul trouble. Fortunately, other teams in the B1G are equally limited this year and don't have a player of Daniel's caliber which gives the Gophers a chance to finish in the upper half of the B1G in a very strange year.

Lot to digest here and a couple push backs.

1. The hypothetical if they got this recruit thing isn't fair. I think it's more fair to judge a class. Zeke and Matthew never were coming here. What is killing this teams "depth" would be the fact that the SR and JR classes are non existent besides Michael Hurt. So we can be blamed on the staffs evals (which has been fixed/adjusted), but It also just happens when a guy goes pro too.

2. Allowing Iowas success and Wiskeys ranking by Joe Lunardis prediction of the bracket is an odd way and not a fair way to assess a team imo.

3. The Big Ten is limited, but it's literally the second best if not the best conference in college basketball is year. Everyone is having issues. It's still by far the deepest conference.

 

[Gopherfan84]

He is doing a good job so far. It is not way to premature to say that. This is a fun team to watch and he is coaching what he has well.

This team is winning games despite poor shooting from their two best outside shooters. They are buying into playing D and you can tell they like each other. Such a fun team to watch grow, don't understand why fans get so down on a group that's continually improving.

 

[Gopherfan84]

I wish Pitino would give those guys a few minutes so that Carr and Oturi can get a little rest. Richard needs to get a little creative with subbing. He must have so little confidence in Greenlee or Freeman that even 1 or 2 minute stretch would cause problems. He won't even play Payton at point and give Hurt a little run. If something happens to Carr look out below because they won't be prepared for the next rotation.

How are one to two minutes gonna matter? With tv time outs and coaches time outs, players gym plenty of chance to rest. Carr was wore down against Purdue? Sure, we may not even be in overtime if he comes out. It goes both ways.

 

[restovich]

I'd rather watch/see Carr at point than Greenlee. I'd rather watch/see Oturu and Omersa up front than Freeman. If anyone "steals' a little playing time from the current rotation, it is likely to be Michael Hurt in certain situations.

 

[MaxyJR1]

One more thing... and then I'll let this one point go I went back and checked all B1G game box scores for each teams last game... and every one of them had at least 8 Players playing 5 minutes or more and the majority (by FAR) had 9 players playing at least 5 minutes.

Gophers were the only team to have ONLY 7 players play 5 minutes or more. I only looked at this because of what MaxyJR1 posted and it piqued my curiosity. He (the picture makes me think it's a he..) made it sound as though the gophers are doing things exactly in line with ALL other schools in the B1G...

I was also looking at the competitiveness of the games. tOSU was comfortably ahead the whole game, Purdue destroyed MSU. I agree the Gophers are not playing the exact same amount as other teams. They are one good contributor short on this team. They will only lose 1-2 guys at the end of this season and next year should be much better with depth.

Pitino is doing a nice job with this team and we should enjoy the season and what Carr and Oturo are doing.

 

[MaxyJR1]

This is way too premature. Everyone is winning their home games so far in the B1G. Let's wait until he wraps up his second winning conference season in 7 years before we make proclamations about doing a good job. Right now both Wisconsin and Iowa are projected as tournament teams right now by Lunardi and the Gophers are not. That's certainly not acceptable to me, much less worthy of praise. The Gophers are playing much better than they were early in the season and at least have a chance at a winning conference season at this moment which seemed unthinkable a month or so ago (as it did for Iowa and Wisconsin).

I don't blame Pitino for how he's used/not used his bench, but his recruiting is an issue. If a Nnaji or Hurt was on this roster, they would be comfortably in the tournament right now. If one of at least a half dozen point guards that were targeted last cycle were on this roster, they would have won at least one of those non-conference games where Carr was terrible and he wouldn't have to play 40 minutes a game right now. The issue really isn't playing 7 or 8 guys, it's that a few of those guys in that rotation are limited to very specific roles. Alihan does certain things well, Jarvis does certain things well, Peyton hasn't really had a nice game since his return from injury. Outside of Gabe getting hot from 3, I am not sure where the scoring comes from if Daniel or Marcus has an off game or simply gets in foul trouble. Fortunately, other teams in the B1G are equally limited this year and don't have a player of Daniel's caliber which gives the Gophers a chance to finish in the upper half of the B1G in a very strange year.

I know you're not specifically looking at MN recruiting but you mention two MN kids.

I get frustrated with recruiting as much as anyone, but look at the national recruiting level. I looked at the 2020 class for B1G states. I only looked at the top 5 players in each state. Some don't have 5 listed. 7 of the top 50 in B1G states stayed home to play for a home state B1G school. Illinois 1, Indiana 3, Pennsylvania 1, and Wisconsin 2.

I'm more concerned with Pitino as an X and O coach and I think he's made improvements every year along with developing players.

 

[ltf]

I know you're not specifically looking at MN recruiting but you mention two MN kids.

I get frustrated with recruiting as much as anyone, but look at the national recruiting level. I looked at the 2020 class for B1G states. I only looked at the top 5 players in each state. Some don't have 5 listed. 7 of the top 50 in B1G states stayed home to play for a home state B1G school. Illinois 1, Indiana 3, Pennsylvania 1, and Wisconsin 2.

I'm more concerned with Pitino as an X and O coach and I think he's made improvements every year along with developing players.

ec

Thanks for adding this context. So that would be 14%. On average then, we should expect 1.5 out of 10 local recruits to stay home according to this data. I know other posters have spoken to this as a national thing, but good to have the data. Would also be interesting to see how much the numbers would change if the question was changed to "How many of the top 50 left the state?".

 

[dex8425]

Pitino was asked about this at the pregame talk he did for boosters and gopher score people that chose it. Interesting answer that has been echoed in here.

I’ll say this: I’m sure he wishes he had ready to go freshman that he could play right away. Obviously he wants to play more guys, give Carr and Oturu rest, etc but he doesn’t have those guys in his mind or else he’d play them.


There is a reason Greenlee signed so late and wasn’t heavily recruited. Freeman is the same. The best recruit in this class for readiness was Williams, who has been solid as a true freshman.

He was very excited last night talking about Mashburn Jr and Mitchell. I’m optimistic they’ll be more ready to play and contribute next year. If everyone who can be back is back, we’d have a lot more experience and depth.

Instead of Greenlee, I wish Tyrell Terry was on this team. Mashburn will probably get the backup pg minutes next year and provide a big scoring threat off the bench. Mitchell does not look BIG ready at this point. He's way too slight. If Walton commits he is also ready for BIG minutes.

 

[Gopherholefan]

Yes. I like the musselman video posted earlier. I totally agree with having 3-4 scholarships tied up in guys that ride the bench/ineligible/redshirt. Next year, this could be us if our 7 rotation comes back plus add in Mashburn, Walton (hopefully!!), and Mitchell (possible redshirt?)

 

[bga1]

Yes. I like the musselman video posted earlier. I totally agree with having 3-4 scholarships tied up in guys that ride the bench/ineligible/redshirt. Next year, this could be us if our 7 rotation comes back plus add in Mashburn, Walton (hopefully!!), and Mitchell (possible redshirt?)

Thanks for calling attention to the Musselman video. I went back and watched it. His dad had the same philosophy. He would land a totally loaded class and then the next year, recruit a bunch of mudders who didn't expect to play right away.

 

[Mountaineer Gopher]

WVU plays twelve successfully. Currently top ten team at 14-2.

 

[bga1]

WVU plays twelve successfully. Currently top ten team at 14-2.

I have not seen them play this year- do they pressure full court?

 

[UpAndUnder43]

Instead of Greenlee, I wish Tyrell Terry was on this team. Mashburn will probably get the backup pg minutes next year and provide a big scoring threat off the bench. Mitchell does not look BIG ready at this point. He's way too slight. If Walton commits he is also ready for BIG minutes.

Pitino recruited Terry. He chose an inferior conference that is a better academic institution. I hope he enjoys it. But you can pick a lot of guys we all would rather have, but they have to want to come here.

 

[JCK]

Yes, the NC games were tough and we lost all those tough games. In some cases, there were times the starters were having major issues. Those times just might have been good times to sub someone in to give the starters time to mentally get their game back AND to see what the other guy can do - don't you think? They might gain more confidence and I'd think it would increase their development by the exposure they receive. Have a little trust in who you've recruited. I'm not here to say which game, or at which time in that game or another, players should have been subbed in to make a difference. The thing is; I'll never know, and you'll never know. What we do know is that the games were still lost AND only 1 of the 4 freshman was given a decent look.

I readily admit... I have no clue how they look in practice... and I'm guessing neither do you BUT I had a good feeling about the freshman group this year from the reviews of their play in Italy. I really thought based off of that, they would see relevant playing time, in relevant situations to see how they fared.

Now; they will only see the floor if something really bad happens in games that forces Pitino's hand.

First thing Pitino said after Italy trip was that he gained very little knowledge about his team in those contests. I agree, its fun to pontificate, but since we are all guessing, without the benefit of all the facts, I will accept Pitino's judgement over ours

 

[JCK]

Me and my GH buddies? Since you know me so well, can you share with me who those people are? I'd kind of like to say hi to those buddies that I have that I didn't know I have. I thought we're here on a forum to discuss opinions, the games, what we see, what we like AND what we don't necessarily like (oh no....I guess I'm not a Pollyanna).

Let me say again; I am enjoying the season to date; that doesn't mean we can't discuss other things outside of how good things look right now.

Let me say a few good things here (oh no, my buddies may not approve); Carr has recently changed my mind about how good he looks and just might be. I was not happy after the first month of the season (I live in California so I don't see them often as I don't have BTN as part of my package) but he's played great over the last 6-8 weeks which is awesome and I'm thrilled about that. Oturu is a complete stud who I hope continues to play at the level he's currently playing at as if he does, he's probably a top 10-15 pick next year... unfortunately as that means he'd be gone, but it means for this year it might get us to the tourney. Mix in Gabe and Willis and get them playing at a different level they're at right now and look out! Demir might actually be more than just 'serviceable'.

I'm very happy with the starting 5 and thought I would be before the season started.. I hoped the record would be better, but as long as the NET is high, and we keep winning our home games and hopefully get a couple on the road... we'll be in great shape for the big dance.

Didn't mean to upset you. I was just expressing my opinion. My inclusion of you with the GH'ers was in part related to the general fickleness at times when rating the exploits of Pitino and his team. If you feel this was unjust, than I stand corrected.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

It shouldn't be a black-and-white deal. There has to be a mid-point between no playing time and significant playing time.

I'm not saying that the 8,9,10 guys on the bench should be playing 15 minutes a game.

but, if each of them could play 5 minutes a game, that takes 15 minutes combined away from the starters. and maybe the starters are a little fresher at the end of the game.

So I don't expect the 8,9,10 guys to be stars. But, if they're on a D1 Scholarship at a major-conference school, they should be able to go out there for 5 minutes without crapping their pants or letting the other team go on a 10-0 run. That's what I'm saying - find recruits who can at least play a little instead of totally raw projects who can't contribute. I'm not saying Pitino needs to go out and land 5* players. But, I don't think it's too much to expect 5 minutes a game from a D1 scholarship player. That's 2-and-a-half minutes in each half. combine that with the scheduled TV time-outs and get the starters a nice break in each half.

 

[Gopherholefan]

I have not seen them play this year- do they pressure full court?

No. Mostly a 1/2 court team

 

[builtbadgers]

ec

Thanks for adding this context. So that would be 14%. On average then, we should expect 1.5 out of 10 local recruits to stay home according to this data. I know other posters have spoken to this as a national thing, but good to have the data. Would also be interesting to see how much the numbers would change if the question was changed to "How many of the top 50 left the state?".

The data on top 50 is difficult because what the ratings by internet guys are different than scouts and coaches. A example would be that the services had DeAndre Hunter around 90. i had him at 20. They had Jordan Taylor low, i had him top 80. It simply does not matter where they come from. You try to find guys that fit and sometimes it does not work. You can not tell with every kid that they will get better or that they have maxed out. This is true in every sport. Now, even someone without training cam tell who the most talented players are but that does not mean they are the best. All that matters to me is that they are of the highest character and what they accomplish.

 

[Keyser Söze]

The data on top 50 is difficult because what the ratings by internet guys are different than scouts and coaches. A example would be that the services had DeAndre Hunter around 90. i had him at 20. They had Jordan Taylor low, i had him top 80. It simply does not matter where they come from. You try to find guys that fit and sometimes it does not work. You can not tell with every kid that they will get better or that they have maxed out. This is true in every sport. Now, even someone without training cam tell who the most talented players are but that does not mean they are the best. All that matters to me is that they are of the highest character and what they accomplish.

To be fair, some scouting services do rankings based on how they project to the NBA. If you compare somone's NBA projections to someone else's college projections, there are of course going to be differences. Using your example, Jordan Taylor was a very good college player, but was never going to be good in the NBA.

 

[builtbadgers]

To be fair, some scouting services do rankings based on how they project to the NBA. If you compare somone's NBA projections to someone else's college projections, there are of course going to be differences. Using your example, Jordan Taylor was a very good college player, but was never going to be good in the NBA.

Agree. The problem i see is they rank a ton of kids they have seen once or not at all and raise kids as the elite programs have offered. Fans see those rankings and equate it to team college success. I get why people look at them as it is usually their only source of recruiting info. Said it before, out of all the guys out there scouting for a internet sites there is one guy i respect as skilled, Bossi. There are two dozen coaches who are off the charts at it and of course everyone misses.

 

[alchemy2u]

And now for something completely different....

Do any of you guys listen to the weekly Pitino radio show on KFAN? I am driving across the country and just listenEd to the podcast of the show after the Michigan win. It was very informative and Pitino is so straight forward and refreshing to listen to. He talked about how he discusses Kenpom all the time with the players, offensive and defensive efficiencies, etc... he said they make you learn to play the game the right way. He also talked about other teams having an identity... Built, you would be proud...lol. He has told Oturu to just keep improving and that he would be the one pushing him out if he was a first round pick... fun listen...

 

[builtbadgers]

And now for something completely different....

Do any of you guys listen to the weekly Pitino radio show on KFAN? I am driving across the country and just listenEd to the podcast of the show after the Michigan win. It was very informative and Pitino is so straight forward and refreshing to listen to. He talked about how he discusses Kenpom all the time with the players, offensive and defensive efficiencies, etc... he said they make you learn to play the game the right way. He also talked about other teams having an identity... Built, you would be proud...lol. He has told Oturu to just keep improving and that he would be the one pushing him out if he was a first round pick... fun listen...

Yes, i have been screaming this for years as the coaches i know where going ppp as long as 30 years ago. Jeter was raised on it as a player and a coach. The blue bloods could ignore it because they always had better players but then some really brilliant guys discovered a way you could take them down . They knew that they would have years where talent was thin but they built a culture of precision, take care of the ball, take good shots and above all , lockdown defense.

 

[GopherBlood777]

And now for something completely different....

Do any of you guys listen to the weekly Pitino radio show on KFAN? I am driving across the country and just listenEd to the podcast of the show after the Michigan win. It was very informative and Pitino is so straight forward and refreshing to listen to. He talked about how he discusses Kenpom all the time with the players, offensive and defensive efficiencies, etc... he said they make you learn to play the game the right way. He also talked about other teams having an identity... Built, you would be proud...lol. He has told Oturu to just keep improving and that he would be the one pushing him out if he was a first round pick... fun listen...

Most definitely listen i grab it on iheart radio, good chemistry with grimm and jg and they keep it pretty light while getting some serious basketball talk in

 

[mplarson7]

The "not playing enough players" argument is overrated.

I believe it was either the 2009 or 2010 Syracuse team that only rotated 6 players every game, and they made a tournament run. It was one of the final years Andy Rautins was there.

 

[alchemy2u]

Most definitely listen i grab it on iheart radio, good chemistry with grimm and jg and they keep it pretty light while getting some serious basketball talk in

Yes, it was interesting how he talked about Howard’s game plan and about trapping inside or not, etc... It gives you a much better feel for what he is thinking.

 

[alchemy2u]

Yes, i have been screaming this for years as the coaches i know where going ppp as long as 30 years ago. Jeter was raised on it as a player and a coach. The blue bloods could ignore it because they always had better players but then some really brilliant guys discovered a way you could take them down . They knew that they would have years where talent was thin but they built a culture of precision, take care of the ball, take good shots and above all , lockdown defense.

I think Pitino is developing more into the type of coach that you will like. I think it had to do with maturing as a coach and finally getting the right style of players.

 

[theczar]

Things get real now for the gophs....Bummed that 3 of his for freshman are splinter kings on a team with a weak bench... very odd he did not red shirt Freeman...