Pitino

As long as we have a scoring threat at the 5 next year, I'm confident with another season and summer of development that Omersa could be a serviceable 4 next year. He just needs to stop fouling so much and work on his finishing around the hoop.
 

I am not too worried about college guys winded. Foul trouble is probably a bigger deal. The other factor is if you have a deeper roster of especially shooters, you have more options. Shooters sometimes just don't have it and it is nice to have someone else to send out there to see if it is their night.
 

As long as we have a scoring threat at the 5 next year, I'm confident with another season and summer of development that Omersa could be a serviceable 4 next year. He just needs to stop fouling so much and work on his finishing around the hoop.
This year is proof that a lot can happen to develop a player in the off season. I just looked back at a GH poll taken in August- "who will be the leading scorer for 19-20"

Results:
Gabe 38.8% (11.9 ppg)
Carr 29.9% (16.5 ppg)
Oturu 26.9% (20.3 ppg)

I don't think any of us, even Oturu voters, thought he would be average 20 pts a game, more than half way through the year.
 

This year is proof that a lot can happen to develop a player in the off season. I just looked back at a GH poll taken in August- "who will be the leading scorer for 19-20"

Results:
Gabe 38.8% (11.9 ppg)
Carr 29.9% (16.5 ppg)
Oturu 26.9% (20.3 ppg)

I don't think any of us, even Oturu voters, thought he would be average 20 pts a game, more than half way through the year.

I was hoping for 16 and 10 out of him. Thought he would be either 1st or 2nd team all Big Ten. My expectations were really high, but he's still exceeding them. So fun to watch.
 

I was hoping for 16 and 10 out of him. Thought he would be either 1st or 2nd team all Big Ten. My expectations were really high, but he's still exceeding them. So fun to watch.

And I feel like he's not even near his ceiling yet.
 



Pitino was asked about this at the pregame talk he did for boosters and gopher score people that chose it. Interesting answer that has been echoed in here.

I’ll say this: I’m sure he wishes he had ready to go freshman that he could play right away. Obviously he wants to play more guys, give Carr and Oturu rest, etc but he doesn’t have those guys in his mind or else he’d play them.

To those that say go recruit them: he is probably trying to. Most coaches don’t want a bunch of projects that may or may not help. Ihnen seemed like a guy who would see minutes but missed a bunch of games with a bad wrist. Hard to play an injured guy, and then he was back but hadn’t practiced much so its hard to throw him in vs anyone, let alone good competition, and expect him to help.

There is a reason Greenlee signed so late and wasn’t heavily recruited. Freeman is the same. The best recruit in this class for readiness was Williams, who has been solid as a true freshman.

He was very excited last night talking about Mashburn Jr and Mitchell. I’m optimistic they’ll be more ready to play and contribute next year. If everyone who can be back is back, we’d have a lot more experience and depth.

Additionally, we can add a transfer (grad or otherwise) if someone leaves or medically retires to help bolster depth. Look around at most P5 teams. Sort their rosters by minutes played. 7 guys will take up the majority of their available minutes.
 


This has been my concern the whole season to this point; yes, we had a very difficult non-conference schedule, but it's NC and the time to play Ihnen, Greenlee and others to get them ready to give breathers to the guys you need. We saw what happened when Carr ran into foul trouble (Mich St.). The fact we didn't give these guys enough time earlier in the year I feel is going to come back and haunt us at a very inopportune time and might cost us a tourney bid. I hope not, just my gut feeling. I know Pitino complained in a strib article earlier in the year about his inability (due to the difficult teams on the schedule...) to get playing time for the freshman to get them ready for conference play, but to me there should have been a plan, regardless of how those games were playing out, to get them prepared.
And if he did what you are suggesting, you and all your GH buddies would ask for his head because he was losing by such a large margin. There are many different avenues in which to attack this game. This year, he has tried a new variation. Pitino seems to be doing with what he's. It is fun and entertaining. Works for me.
 



There are many different avenues in which to attack this game. This year, he has tried a new variation. Pitino seems to be doing with what he's. It is fun and entertaining. Works for me.

Is it really that new? Last year, all the minutes were split between 7 players (Murph, Oturu, Coffey, Kalscheur, McBrayer, Curry and Stull) with Hurt and Stockman basically standing on the court to give people breathers.

Then Curry went down. Who absorbed his minutes: The starters.
 

Most teams play 7-8 guys beyond that they are playing 5 or fewer minutes. Looking at B1G box scores from the last few night, 7-9 guys for every team.
 

And if he did what you are suggesting, you and all your GH buddies would ask for his head because he was losing by such a large margin. There are many different avenues in which to attack this game. This year, he has tried a new variation. Pitino seems to be doing with what he's. It is fun and entertaining. Works for me.
Me and my GH buddies? Since you know me so well, can you share with me who those people are? I'd kind of like to say hi to those buddies that I have that I didn't know I have. I thought we're here on a forum to discuss opinions, the games, what we see, what we like AND what we don't necessarily like (oh no....I guess I'm not a Pollyanna).

Let me say again; I am enjoying the season to date; that doesn't mean we can't discuss other things outside of how good things look right now.

Let me say a few good things here (oh no, my buddies may not approve); Carr has recently changed my mind about how good he looks and just might be. I was not happy after the first month of the season (I live in California so I don't see them often as I don't have BTN as part of my package) but he's played great over the last 6-8 weeks which is awesome and I'm thrilled about that. Oturu is a complete stud who I hope continues to play at the level he's currently playing at as if he does, he's probably a top 10-15 pick next year... unfortunately as that means he'd be gone, but it means for this year it might get us to the tourney. Mix in Gabe and Willis and get them playing at a different level they're at right now and look out! Demir might actually be more than just 'serviceable'.

I'm very happy with the starting 5 and thought I would be before the season started.. I hoped the record would be better, but as long as the NET is high, and we keep winning our home games and hopefully get a couple on the road... we'll be in great shape for the big dance.
 

Most teams play 7-8 guys beyond that they are playing 5 or fewer minutes. Looking at B1G box scores from the last few night, 7-9 guys for every team.
Sorry, not a good example looking at last night. Indiana played 11 and Rutgers played 9.
 



Most teams play 7-8 guys beyond that they are playing 5 or fewer minutes. Looking at B1G box scores from the last few night, 7-9 guys for every team.
My bad... Indiana had 8 players with 6 (which is where Race landed..) or more minutes and Rutgers had 9.
 


Most teams play 7-8 guys beyond that they are playing 5 or fewer minutes. Looking at B1G box scores from the last few night, 7-9 guys for every team.
One more thing... and then I'll let this one point go ;) I went back and checked all B1G game box scores for each teams last game... and every one of them had at least 8 Players playing 5 minutes or more and the majority (by FAR) had 9 players playing at least 5 minutes.

Gophers were the only team to have ONLY 7 players play 5 minutes or more. I only looked at this because of what MaxyJR1 posted and it piqued my curiosity. He (the picture makes me think it's a he..) made it sound as though the gophers are doing things exactly in line with ALL other schools in the B1G...
 

Quite a few people here saying that Pitino should have prepared for the lack of depth on the team by giving the 8-10 players on the roster more PT in the non-conference part of the schedule. I just want to know what games Greenlee, Ihnen, and Freeman realistically could have gotten more PT in? We lost to Utah by 4, Depaul by 5, Oklahoma by 9, and Butler by 8. That's four quality opponents that we had a realistic shot at beating... we can't put the bench players in those games.

As for the rest of the non-conference schedule... are 10 extra minutes against the Cleveland States and Central Michigans of the world really going to turn Freeman, Ihnen, and Greenlee into reliable rotation players? Hell no.

Pitino did the right thing giving our 7 best players the majority of the minutes in the non-conference - it prepared them for the toughest B1G conference I've ever seen. The 8-10 players on our roster can develop this off-season, not during important games that we need to win in order to make the big dance.
 

Players r developing in practice aren’t they? Getting coached-up and all that.
 
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As for the rest of the non-conference schedule... are 10 extra minutes against the Cleveland States and Central Michigans of the world really going to turn Freeman, Ihnen, and Greenlee into reliable rotation players? Hell no.

Pitino did the right thing giving our 7 best players the majority of the minutes in the non-conference - it prepared them for the toughest B1G conference I've ever seen. The 8-10 players on our roster can develop this off-season, not during important games that we need to win in order to make the big dance.

I want to make sure I understand. Giving Freeman, Ihnen and Greenlee playing time against Cleveland State when we're up by 30 with 10 minutes to go won't benefit them in anyway, but continuing to play the starters prepared them for the toughest Big Ten conference of all time.
 

Quite a few people here saying that Pitino should have prepared for the lack of depth on the team by giving the 8-10 players on the roster more PT in the non-conference part of the schedule. I just want to know what games Greenlee, Ihnen, and Freeman realistically could have gotten more PT in? We lost to Utah by 4, Depaul by 5, Oklahoma by 9, and Butler by 8. That's four quality opponents that we had a realistic shot at beating... we can't put the bench players in those games.

As for the rest of the non-conference schedule... are 10 extra minutes against the Cleveland States and Central Michigans of the world really going to turn Freeman, Ihnen, and Greenlee into reliable rotation players? Hell no.

Pitino did the right thing giving our 7 best players the majority of the minutes in the non-conference - it prepared them for the toughest B1G conference I've ever seen. The 8-10 players on our roster can develop this off-season, not during important games that we need to win in order to make the big dance.
Yes, the NC games were tough and we lost all those tough games. In some cases, there were times the starters were having major issues. Those times just might have been good times to sub someone in to give the starters time to mentally get their game back AND to see what the other guy can do - don't you think? They might gain more confidence and I'd think it would increase their development by the exposure they receive. Have a little trust in who you've recruited. I'm not here to say which game, or at which time in that game or another, players should have been subbed in to make a difference. The thing is; I'll never know, and you'll never know. What we do know is that the games were still lost AND only 1 of the 4 freshman was given a decent look.

I readily admit... I have no clue how they look in practice... and I'm guessing neither do you BUT I had a good feeling about the freshman group this year from the reviews of their play in Italy. I really thought based off of that, they would see relevant playing time, in relevant situations to see how they fared.

Now; they will only see the floor if something really bad happens in games that forces Pitino's hand.
 

One more thing... and then I'll let this one point go ;) I went back and checked all B1G game box scores for each teams last game... and every one of them had at least 8 Players playing 5 minutes or more and the majority (by FAR) had 9 players playing at least 5 minutes.

Gophers were the only team to have ONLY 7 players play 5 minutes or more. I only looked at this because of what MaxyJR1 posted and it piqued my curiosity. He (the picture makes me think it's a he..) made it sound as though the gophers are doing things exactly in line with ALL other schools in the B1G...

I think it's more Pitino than anything, he didn't play Stockman much last year until the end of the year and he ended up helping them get in the tournament.
 

I think it's more Pitino than anything, he didn't play Stockman much last year until the end of the year and he ended up helping them get in the tournament.
BINGO. I 100% agree, which is the underlying point that I've been making as hey, he's the HC and makes the important decisions. I loved Stockman last year and really didn't understand why he didn't play more... he had a rough start, but what transfer doesn't but man he looked really good towards the end.
 

I think it's more Pitino than anything, he didn't play Stockman much last year until the end of the year and he ended up helping them get in the tournament.
Yes. I was frustrated early on that Stockman wasn’t getting minutes. Most in this board considered him trash and laughed at the notion that he could contribute. Pitino ended up forced to play him and he played very well. Sometimes you just don’t know until they get game action. Its that unknown that keeps them on the bench, and of course coach sees them every day in practice. What he sees must keep their butts glued to the bench.
 

Yes, the NC games were tough and we lost all those tough games. In some cases, there were times the starters were having major issues. Those times just might have been good times to sub someone in to give the starters time to mentally get their game back AND to see what the other guy can do - don't you think? They might gain more confidence and I'd think it would increase their development by the exposure they receive. Have a little trust in who you've recruited. I'm not here to say which game, or at which time in that game or another, players should have been subbed in to make a difference. The thing is; I'll never know, and you'll never know. What we do know is that the games were still lost AND only 1 of the 4 freshman was given a decent look.

I readily admit... I have no clue how they look in practice... and I'm guessing neither do you BUT I had a good feeling about the freshman group this year from the reviews of their play in Italy. I really thought based off of that, they would see relevant playing time, in relevant situations to see how they fared.

Now; they will only see the floor if something really bad happens in games that forces Pitino's hand.
The only thing is that they lost close games. Your thinking is, well they lost so they missed the chance to play those guys. But because the games were close, he could not have known the outcome while he was deciding to keep the lineup tight. For a team that plays a tough schedule and is a fringe NCAA prospect, every game is important. Trust me, I love seeing those guys get tested and grow but you have to win first- especially when you are a coach on the hot seat. If he is Bill Self or Tom Izzo he could afford to go deep and take a loss if the subs blow it. Not so much here, at present, with Pitino.
 

Funny side thought here. For those who were following the team in the Tubby years, remember how much people on here used to bitch when Tubby did his regular full hockey-style line changes? He would literally switch 5 out at a time. Everyone said "There's no continuity!" and "Leave the hot hand in."

This used to drive me crazy.

I much prefer Pitino's style.
 

Have no problem with Pitino's subbing patterns. Wish we could have brought in a few players who were more big ten ready to contribute right away.
 

Yes. I was frustrated early on that Stockman wasn’t getting minutes. Most in this board considered him trash and laughed at the notion that he could contribute. Pitino ended up forced to play him and he played very well. Sometimes you just don’t know until they get game action. Its that unknown that keeps them on the bench, and of course coach sees them every day in practice. What he sees must keep their butts glued to the bench.
I trashed him
 

I think the OP liked the roster management.

With all due respect, this is still far from an ideal roster. No real backup post, unless you count a very raw Freeman who doesn't look ready to play major-conf hoops. No real backup PG. We hear that Willis can run point, but they're still playing Carr virtually 40 minutes a game.

Thin on front line (Curry injury really impacted this.)

Like others, I would have liked to see the bench get a lot more minutes in non-conf play. It seems to me like a Catch-22. the company line is "can't play the kids because they're not ready for major conf competition." So, how do you get them ready when you can't play them in games?

I'm not saying Pitino has to bring in a bunch of 5* kids like Duke or Kentucky. But I would like to see recruits who are closer to being ready to play in games that matter. You can't have half of your roster made up of projects.

It’s weird I’d take Omersa over many skilled backups around the league. Energy and intangibles are huge in college basketball.
 

I want to make sure I understand. Giving Freeman, Ihnen and Greenlee playing time against Cleveland State when we're up by 30 with 10 minutes to go won't benefit them in anyway, but continuing to play the starters prepared them for the toughest Big Ten conference of all time.
Here I'll dumb it down for you. Freeman, Ihnen, and Greenlee are not good enough to play significant minutes in the B1G. Period. They are freshman that need an off-season to develop their fundamentals. Freeman and Ihnen both need to add at least 15 pounds each to handle the physicality of the B1G. Giving garbage time to the end of the bench against garbage opponents will not magically make them viable in B1G play.

What WILL help us win more games is giving more time to the 7 players that ARE viable in B1G play. This allows them to build chemistry on the court and understand each others habits. Which surprisingly doesn't happen when they are on the bench so the scrubs can get some garbage time.
 

Unfortunately I have to agree with this. I would love to see Ihnen, Hurt, Freeman, or Greenlee show some spark but haven't saw it yet. Not saying they won't eventually but as of now.

I wish Pitino would give those guys a few minutes so that Carr and Oturi can get a little rest. Richard needs to get a little creative with subbing. He must have so little confidence in Greenlee or Freeman that even 1 or 2 minute stretch would cause problems. He won't even play Payton at point and give Hurt a little run. If something happens to Carr look out below because they won't be prepared for the next rotation.
 




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