Pitino post game - Today was bigger than basketball...it's about doing what's right.

[Winasota Gopher]

The crux of where Pitino and the U are right now is deciding whether these are essentially decent human beings who did something stupid and out of character or whether they are really bad seeds that could contaminate not only the team but the university. It is a discipline decision people working with teens and others face a lot more than we may appreciate. From my perspective, it is not a slam dunk decision either way, and there will be negative ramifications either way. One, we lose the base of the program and start from zero again next year. Two, we face an uphill PR/recruiting situation with opponents trashing the character of our players especially to recruits parents. It's a no-win. The program was at a similar place with the Mitch Lee fiasco in the mid 80's, when he was acquitted of something, let back on the team and then was the ring leader of the disaster that followed. No one wants that. Pitino and his bosses have some serious discussions in the near future to make these decisions.

Lots of assumptions about "no crime" on the board, but that is all they are: assumptions. None of us knows for sure and that obviously is the potential elephant in the room. My guess is that is what suits and decision makers are looking at most closely right now. Either way, there better be a clear explanation for whatever decision is made. As someone said in another thread, it would not surprise me if one or all voluntarily leave the program to limit shame and embarrassment.

Yuk.

/thread

 

[scher215]

The crux of where Pitino and the U are right now is deciding whether these are essentially decent human beings who did something stupid and out of character or whether they are really bad seeds that could contaminate not only the team but the university. It is a discipline decision people working with teens and others face a lot more than we may appreciate. From my perspective, it is not a slam dunk decision either way, and there will be negative ramifications either way. One, we lose the base of the program and start from zero again next year. Two, we face an uphill PR/recruiting situation with opponents trashing the character of our players especially to recruits parents. It's a no-win. The program was at a similar place with the Mitch Lee fiasco in the mid 80's, when he was acquitted of something, let back on the team and then was the ring leader of the disaster that followed. No one wants that. Pitino and his bosses have some serious discussions in the near future to make these decisions. Lots of assumptions about "no crime" on the board, but that is all they are: assumptions. None of us knows for sure and that obviously is the potential elephant in the room. My guess is that is what suits and decision makers are looking at most closely right now. Either way, there better be a clear explanation for whatever decision is made. As someone said in another thread, it would not surprise me if one or all voluntarily leave the program to limit shame and embarrassment. Yuk.

Well said. Although I think the assumption of a crime being committed is far more problematic than the other way. If charges of any kind are filed, my opinion will change vastly on this. I think seeing a video of sex and immediately assuming the players committed a crime is very judgmental. Maybe they did. But I don't want to assume that off the bat.

 

[Go4]

Well said. Although I think the assumption of a crime being committed is far more problematic than the other way. If charges of any kind are filed, my opinion will change vastly on this. I think seeing a video of sex and immediately assuming the players committed a crime is very judgmental. Maybe they did. But I don't want to assume that off the bat.

i agree with this. i also think if pitino felt there was a crime committed, he wouldn't have had them on the bench last night. huge difference between crime committed and being stupid with social media.

 

[scher215]

i agree with this. i also think if pitino felt there was a crime committed, he wouldn't have had them on the bench last night. huge difference between crime committed and being stupid with social media.

Especially with how quickly McNeil was gone. It's not like Pitino tried to skirt the line there and keep him. It was almost instant if I recall correctly.

Maybe Pitino needs to recruit "better character" but I am plenty happy with him giving kids a chance (and many of these issues haven't come with kids who showed bad character previously), as long as he handles appropriate discipline when needed. If he allows issues to go unchecked. That is when you have a problem. As long as he is dealing with them, I wouldn't call him soft or lax.

 

[fan of Ray Williams]

i agree with this. i also think if pitino felt there was a crime committed, he wouldn't have had them on the bench last night. huge difference between crime committed and being stupid with social media.

Could be way off base, but I'm thinking they were on the bench because Pitino did not know about it yet. Can't believe he would have taken them to Illinois under suspension.

edit: Think I misinterpreted what you were conveying.

 

[34Gopher]

Could be way off base, but I'm thinking they were on the bench because Pitino did not know about it yet. Can't believe he would have taken them to Illinois under suspension.

edit: Think I misinterpreted what you were conveying.

Random thought, but wasn't Champaign the final straw for Russ Archambault back in the day? Pretty sure Clem sent him back to Mpls on a Greyhound.

 

[Holy Man]

Especially with how quickly McNeil was gone. It's not like Pitino tried to skirt the line there and keep him. It was almost instant if I recall correctly.

Maybe Pitino needs to recruit "better character" but I am plenty happy with him giving kids a chance (and many of these issues haven't come with kids who showed bad character previously), as long as he handles appropriate discipline when needed. If he allows issues to go unchecked. That is when you have a problem. As long as he is dealing with them, I wouldn't call him soft or lax.

He also said all the right things at the press conference for which he should be given credit. I'm going to trust that he and advisers/bosses will make the right decision based on what they know and hopefully will explain it clearly. Big problem is that everyone involved will be harassed by media until they get a story. It's not going away and the possible mercy on this board will not be shared by most people. We can be assured that the local media will not have the truth as their motive, but creating a story to generate clicks, and this is as click bait a story as you can get.

 

[scher215]

He also said all the right things at the press conference for which he should be given credit. I'm going to trust that he and advisers/bosses will make the right decision based on what they know and hopefully will explain it clearly. Big problem is that everyone involved will be harassed by media until they get a story. It's not going away and the possible mercy on this board will not be shared by most people. We can be assured that the local media will not have the truth as their motive, but creating a story to generate clicks, and this is as click bait a story as you can get.

Agreed fully. This comes at a horrible time with the NT mess. Will just cause people to see this as a part of that big problem instead of an isolated incident. Which I would be more likely to assume it is, but again, just an assumption.

My hope at least is that the media will hound only the players. If the female doesn't wish to talk and it wasn't a crime. Would be really sad to see her get the TMZ treatment when she did nothing wrong.

 

[Otis]

i agree with this. i also think if pitino felt there was a crime committed, he wouldn't have had them on the bench last night. huge difference between crime committed and being stupid with social media.

You think he would have left them in the hotel room?

 

[Golden_Sloth]

Lots of assumptions about "no crime" on the board, but that is all they are: assumptions. None of us knows for sure and that obviously is the potential elephant in the room.

It's almost like there's this thing called 'presumption of innocence'. None of them have a criminal record, and despite how offensive some of you may find it, having a 3 way and taping it doesn't make them bad seeds, poor character, etc. The video never should have been posted online, and for that they do deserve some punishment.

Now, if it turns out the sex or filming wasn't consensual (and again there is NO REASON to assume that at this point), then obviously everything changes.

 

[Bad Gopher]

The crux of where Pitino and the U are right now is deciding whether these are essentially decent human beings who did something stupid and out of character or whether they are really bad seeds that could contaminate not only the team but the university. It is a discipline decision people working with teens and others face a lot more than we may appreciate. From my perspective, it is not a slam dunk decision either way, and there will be negative ramifications either way. One, we lose the base of the program and start from zero again next year. Two, we face an uphill PR/recruiting situation with opponents trashing the character of our players especially to recruits parents. It's a no-win. The program was at a similar place with the Mitch Lee fiasco in the mid 80's, when he was acquitted of something, let back on the team and then was the ring leader of the disaster that followed. No one wants that. Pitino and his bosses have some serious discussions in the near future to make these decisions.

Lots of assumptions about "no crime" on the board, but that is all they are: assumptions. None of us knows for sure and that obviously is the potential elephant in the room. My guess is that is what suits and decision makers are looking at most closely right now. Either way, there better be a clear explanation for whatever decision is made. As someone said in another thread, it would not surprise me if one or all voluntarily leave the program to limit shame and embarrassment.

Yuk.

I take Pitino at his word that he wants to recruit guys of high character. Whether he knew about Dorsey's history of shenanigans or not then, he knows now. The question is always, do I jettison the guy because he doesn't live up to the standards we said we're setting here, or do I try to work with him and make him a more responsible person? I remember Clem and Connell Lewis. Connell was a badass from the streets, and now he's an ordained minister - and I don't think he would be if he didn't have the guidance he got here.

 

[Holy Man]

Agreed fully. This comes at a horrible time with the NT mess. Will just cause people to see this as a part of that big problem instead of an isolated incident. Which I would be more likely to assume it is, but again, just an assumption.

My hope at least is that the media will hound only the players. If the female doesn't wish to talk and it wasn't a crime. Would be really sad to see her get the TMZ treatment when she did nothing wrong.

Sadly, the innocents are often not left alone by the media either. it will be couched in a way that they are giving a place for proper indignation to be shown.

 

[Moonlight]

Holy Man, you win the award for the most measured, ethical, realistic comments regarding this.
We live in a world that loves to be outraged and titillated - this hits both of those buttons. We vacillate between jumping to the worst conclusions about people or brushing it off.
A concern regarding this: is there an outcome that will be perceived as correct? As Holy Man has suggested, we face this kind of problem all the time but we don't usually do well with it.