Pitino: "expectations should only matter within your program."

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SelectionSunday said:
My simple translation of what Pitino said:

"We expected to get to the NCAA Tournament, but we're not going to say that publically because then we're admitting we failed."
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Two different questions:

Question 1. Did they expect to make the NCAAs- no doubt about it and Pitino said so early in the year. Would he say that this year was a success? I think if he were asked that he's say no- it was disappointing.
Question 2. Are they internally satisfied with where the program is at and is heading long term? To that I would think he would say that they feel that they are meeting those expectations-bringing in guys that can win here long term.

I think that in his mind he is answering the second question and to him the more important question. That said, it wasn't the smartest way to say it. Much better to say: We are disappointed in this year's results but we believe that we are on the right track as a program, have the right system and the players coming in who can play in it. In time the fans will be satisfied with what they see.
 

More than anything, I think Pitino is talking about his adjustment here. Being visible, in the spotlight and under the microscope. Just like in this analysis of his statement. He'll learn not to say things like this again. External expectations are not helpful in performance mode - they're a distraction. Imo, Pitino is talking about the fact that he and his coaching team need to learn how to block out the noise that comes with this level of play. And if he is having difficulty, then his players are as well.

Oh, and as a season ticket holder I don't take this to mean he doesn't care about my expectations for the team. I would hope fan expectations would be the last thing on his mind at this moment.
 

fan of Ray Williams said:
"I think this year more than anything has taught me that expectations should only matter within your program."

Someone help a dummy like me out, what does that mean?
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Yeah, he lost me too. Is he saying that he and his players expected something like a 6-12 Big Ten season?
 


Moonlight said:
More than anything, I think Pitino is talking about his adjustment here. Being visible, in the spotlight and under the microscope. Just like in this analysis of his statement. He'll learn not to say things like this again. External expectations are not helpful in performance mode - they're a distraction. Imo, Pitino is talking about the fact that he and his coaching team need to learn how to block out the noise that comes with this level of play. And if he is having difficulty, then his players are as well.

Oh, and as a season ticket holder I don't take this to mean he doesn't care about my expectations for the team. I would hope fan expectations would be the last thing on his mind at this moment.
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Exactly. Keep recruiting the right kind of players for the system and keep moving forward at getting better in every way. The fans will get all happy when the wins come or ask for your head if they don't- those things are assured. This is just the wrong year to be picking everything he does apart. People need to have a little bit of patience. Right now what I am worried about is a couple of things: 1. Is he recruiting at a good level? 2. Are we competing in every game or are we getting blown out using his system? Right now I feel pretty good about both, despite the frustrating season we are now finishing.
 

I think the point Pitino was trying to make was pretty straightforward- that is- teams have a definite composition which corresponds to their potential, and there are two essential perspectives when it comes to that teams's potential- a teams internal perception (which can be based in reality) and the fan base's reality (which invariably is based on conjecture). Pitino is acknowledging that both exist, and making the point that when the latter starts to have an impact on the former, it without fail has a corrosive affect (because again, those outside perspectives have no essential bearing on a team's internal reality). Teams are a very particular sociological phenomenon, and I agree, do well to remain insulated from the conjecture of outsiders. No team ever got better watching what SportCenter had to say about them everyday.

*this is not to say Pitino should be given a pass for some of his failings, which if he is a quality coach will not need to be pointed out. It's just to articulate the fair minded discrepancy he was a attempting to point out.
 

Holf said:
I think the point Pitino was trying to make was pretty straightforward- that is- teams have a definite composition which corresponds to their potential, and there are two essential perspectives when it comes to that teams's potential- a teams internal perception (which can be based in reality) and the fan base's reality (which invariably is based on conjecture). Pitino is acknowledging that both exist, and making the point that when the latter starts to have an impact on the former, it without fail has a corrosive affect (because again, those outside perspectives have no essential bearing in a team's internal reality). Teams are a very particular sociological phenomenon, and I agree, do well to remain insulated from the conjecture of outsiders.

*this is not to say Pitino should be given a pass for some of his failings, which if he is a quality coach will not need to be pointed out. It's just to articulate the fair minded discrepancy he was a attempting to point out.
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Very well put. This is my understanding as well. About this point in time I am sure Richard is understanding why his dad told him not to go into coaching. And I have no doubt that his dad will give him chapter and verse on his failings. But what he is talking about in this quote is exactly what you are mentioning. He's actually discussing one of his failings in not knowing how to support his players through the crush of external expectations.
 

SelectionSunday said:
My simple translation of what Pitino said:

"We expected to get to the NCAA Tournament, but we're not going to say that publically because then we're admitting we failed."
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Agree. This is a convenient way for Richard to avoid having to admit failure for both himself and his team.
 



MRJ said:
Agree. This is a convenient way for Richard to avoid having to admit failure for both himself and his team.
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Do you really think so? This quote was before the game. The focus was on circling the wagons. Is it likely that anyone would admit failure right before the last game of the season, or that anyone would waste energy on defending how this season unfolded? I think you're both missing the point of the statement.
 


Moonlight said:
Do you really think so? This quote was before the game. The focus was on circling the wagons. Is it likely that anyone would admit failure right before the last game of the season, or that anyone would waste energy on defending how this season unfolded? I think you're both missing the point of the statement.
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Absolutely. This was classic coach-speak. Most coaches at the Division I level have huge egos and don't like to admit any kind of failure by either their teams or themselves. And most will point to something else that was in play for their team bumbling and stumbling all over themselves. Honestly, I don't think this had anything to do with the Penn State game in anyway, shape or form.

This is Pitino's way of trying to explain away a season in which his team failed. Trying to blame it on outside expectations is ludicrous. Everyone that follows or supports the program has expectations. The AD has expectations, the fans have expectations as do the players and coaches. It's that way at every basketball program in the country. If the coach and players consistently fail to live up to those expectations, they'll be gone. No team at any level of basketball gets to poo-poo the expectations of others simply because they fail to deliver.

In other words, outside expectations will always be there. That's the nature of big-time college basketball. The key is how you handle them. This season has been a huge disappointment, and it wasn't a disappointment because of some unreasonable amount of expectation from those on the outside. They simply didn't get it done.
 

MRJ said:
Absolutely. This was classic coach-speak. Most coaches at the Division I level have huge egos and don't like to admit any kind of failure by either their teams or themselves. And most will point to something else that was in play for their team bumbling and stumbling all over themselves. Honestly, I don't think this had anything to do with the Penn State game in anyway, shape or form.

This is Pitino's way of trying to explain away a season in which his team failed. Trying to blame it on outside expectations is ludicrous. Everyone that follows or supports the program has expectations. The AD has expectations, the fans have expectations as do the players and coaches. It's that way at every basketball program in the country. If the coach and players consistently fail to live up to those expectations, they'll be gone. No team at any level of basketball gets to poo-poo the expectations of others simply because they fail to deliver.

In other words, outside expectations will always be there. That's the nature of big-time college basketball. The key is how you handle them. This season has been a huge disappointment, and it wasn't a disappointment because of some unreasonable amount of expectation from those on the outside. They simply didn't get it done.
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Where in his statement does he say he blames this year on external expectations?
 



bga1 said:
Where in his statement does he say he blames this year on external expectations?
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"I think this year more than anything has taught me that expectations should only matter within your program. That doesn’t mean I don’t respect the media or respect people’s opinion or our program. I certainly do. But at the end of the day, none of it can matter."

Right here.
 

This was a strange interview, here's the first question and answer:

Q You haven’t written a blog post since October. If you had to write a post right now about the season in review, what would it say?

A We certainly have had more highs I think than people would realize, and we’ve certainly had a lot of close losses. I think more than anything there was a belief that because you win the NIT in your first year that you’re automatically going to make a huge leap in the second year, and I was very concerned with that going into the season. But it’s too early to really give an assessment of the season because we’re hoping we’re playing for at least another couple of weeks.

Are you kidding me? The "highs" to this season were beating MSU and Iowa on the road and, if you're really generous, beating Georgia on a neutral floor. The team lost at least 6 games they were favored to win in conference play and won just two as underdogs.

I agree with those who say that Pitino would admit that this has been a very disappointing season privately and that the timing of this Q&A made it difficult to do so. That said, it came out publicly before Senior Day in the Pioneer Press that Pitino went to Kendall Shell during the season and asked him to provide leadership that the other Seniors were not giving. To me, if that can come out, then it's certainly ok for Pitino to shoulder some blame for this year, or at the very least, not sugar coat things like he did in his above response. There are plenty of quotes from Pitino in the pre season and from the non-conference portion of the schedule that gave fans the impression that expectations were as high (if not higher) within the program than they were from the fan base.
 

MRJ said:
"I think this year more than anything has taught me that expectations should only matter within your program. That doesn’t mean I don’t respect the media or respect people’s opinion or our program. I certainly do. But at the end of the day, none of it can matter."

Right here.
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But where does he say he blames it on external expectations? He doesn't say that. You infer it.
 

Is he suggesting that the team met their own internal expectations? Even after non-con play and taking into account the loss of Hulk, Day-Day, and Lofton, I would struggle to take him seriously if he looked around a locker room that included a senior Hollins, a senior Mathieu, a senior Mo and EE, Mason, and Squirrel and said "I think we should expect to be a 6-12 team, not one of the nine best in the Big Ten, and a borderline contender to make the NIT". If that really was their internal expectation, then hooray for setting a bar low enough that they could belly over it with the crap performance they put together this year.
 

MRJ said:
"I think this year more than anything has taught me that expectations should only matter within your program. That doesn’t mean I don’t respect the media or respect people’s opinion or our program. I certainly do. But at the end of the day, none of it can matter."

Right here.
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No. That could mean a lot of things, but there is nothing obvious there that blames the expectations of the fans for anything. Pitino has always talked about the goals being related to doing the process. Perhaps he has seen more progress in the program- despite the losses than we do. Maybe he sees different measures as important at this stage than we do. At the end of the day- long term- it has to end in the program winning more than it has over the past 15+ years, but along the path to that he may have different expectations about what to measure the progress by. Year two is too early for this.
 

Moonlight said:
But where does he say he blames it on external expectations? He doesn't say that. You infer it.
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He infers it himself. He's trying to walk both sides with his comments. No coach is literally going to come out and say "it's all everybody else's fault. They had too high of expectations for us." He's inferring it by saying that he's learned that nobody else's expectations can matter (ie...other people's expectations weren't in line with ours and it caused problems). Hence, the ban from twitter after one of their many flat performances earlier this year. If expectations were to truly be 6-12 in the league and consider that a reasonable goal, then he won't last long. This is classic coach-speak from a coach whose team failed to deliver and knows it but is attempting to explain it in a way that looks less damaging for his team.

The fact is that outside pressures will always exist. That's the nature of Big 10 basketball (or power 5 basketball). For the time being, he can go with these kind of statements because he's early in his career. But as time unfolds, if the team continues to flounder, this whole argument won't hold any water. The only hope is that they can respond with a better performance in coming years. But if they don't, this explanation won't work.
 

bga1 said:
No. That could mean a lot of things, but there is nothing obvious there that blames the expectations of the fans for anything. Pitino has always talked about the goals being related to doing the process. Perhaps he has seen more progress in the program- despite the losses than we do. Maybe he sees different measures as important at this stage than we do. At the end of the day- long term- it has to end in the program winning more than it has over the past 15+ years, but along the path to that he may have different expectations about what to measure the progress by. Year two is too early for this.
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You could very well be correct. Maybe he adjusted his expectations once he realized the team wasn't very good and decided to keep his goals very basic in nature. To me, this is spin. Returning four starters from an NIT champion and then putting together a worse team the next season doesn't suggest that progress is being made. Obviously, he's still early in his coaching career and can get better from here. But this season has been a huge downer regardless of how he wants to attempt to explain it.
 

MRJ said:
He infers it himself. He's trying to walk both sides with his comments. No coach is literally going to come out and say "it's all everybody else's fault. They had too high of expectations for us." He's inferring it by saying that he's learned that nobody else's expectations can matter (ie...other people's expectations weren't in line with ours and it caused problems). Hence, the ban from twitter after one of their many flat performances earlier this year. If expectations were to truly be 6-12 in the league and consider that a reasonable goal, then he won't last long. This is classic coach-speak from a coach whose team failed to deliver and knows it but is attempting to explain it in a way that looks less damaging for his team.

The fact is that outside pressures will always exist. That's the nature of Big 10 basketball (or power 5 basketball). For the time being, he can go with these kind of statements because he's early in his career. But as time unfolds, if the team continues to flounder, this whole argument won't hold any water. The only hope is that they can respond with a better performance in coming years. But if they don't, this explanation won't work.
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Your last two sentences are exactly right. If by year 4 and 5 he isn't winning then no explanation will suffice. My point is that it's year 2, it's a process and it is too early to worry about every little word the coach is saying. The question is - can he produce a winning program long term. All the rest doesn't matter.
 

Ok, so now Pitino is not taking any blame, doesn't care about the fans, is not accepting responsibility, using excuses like balls and time changes, etc, etc, etc, etc.......

This has got to be the most idiotic thread I have ever seen.

You might as well all become Badger fans because you are going to have a chip on your shoulder for the next 20+ yrs of Pitino at the U. And, I for one, don't want to listen to you gripe.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

alchemy2u said:
Ok, so now Pitino is not taking any blame, doesn't care about the fans, is not accepting responsibility, using excuses like balls and time changes, etc, etc, etc, etc.......

This has got to be the most idiotic thread I have ever seen.

You might as well all become Badger fans because you are going to have a chip on your shoulder for the next 20+ yrs of Pitino at the U. And, I for one, don't want to listen to you gripe.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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If I'm not griping after a 6-12 season, its because I have lost all interest in following the team.
 

Thank you, bga. Yes, this is a process. A PROCESS.
The reason why many of us were relieved to see Tubby let go is that we saw this slide to the bottom of the BT coming. This was going to be a tough job regardless. I am sure many of the unhappiness among the more mature on this board stems from the concern that the U hired an inexperienced coach for what was going to be a very tough job. Look around the BT - nothing but top notch coaches as far as the eye can see. Next year, Tubbys final recruits should be the leadership and we have...Buggs. A like able guy who seems to be responding to a game going on his own head. Did you see his outlet pass yesterday to..Gas??

My field is oriented to rehab, and my friends, we are in rehab. Expectations in rehab are a big problem. They can kill progress. Goals and benchmarks have to be reoriented to what is achievable, and to what will further the process. Note I did not say 'lowered'. Pitino is speaking the language of rehab which IMO is correct for where we are. He has a ton of work to do, and while at times I wish for an older more experienced coach, usually I am glad for a young, hungry coach because that is what it is going to take.
 

Moonlight said:
Thank you, bga. Yes, this is a process. A PROCESS.
The reason why many of us were relieved to see Tubby let go is that we saw this slide to the bottom of the BT coming. This was going to be a tough job regardless. I am sure many of the unhappiness among the more mature on this board stems from the concern that the U hired an inexperienced coach for what was going to be a very tough job. Look around the BT - nothing but top notch coaches as far as the eye can see. Next year, Tubbys final recruits should be the leadership and we have...Buggs. A like able guy who seems to be responding to a game going on his own head. Did you see his outlet pass yesterday to..Gas??

My field is oriented to rehab, and my friends, we are in rehab. Expectations in rehab are a big problem. They can kill progress. Goals and benchmarks have to be reoriented to what is achievable, and to what will further the process. Note I did not say 'lowered'. Pitino is speaking the language of rehab which IMO is correct for where we are. He has a ton of work to do, and while at times I wish for an older more experienced coach, usually I am glad for a young, hungry coach because that is what it is going to take.
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Interesting perspective. Never thought of it that way. Appreciate the clarification.
 

Moonlight said:
Thank you, bga. Yes, this is a process. A PROCESS.

My field is oriented to rehab, and my friends, we are in rehab. Expectations in rehab are a big problem. They can kill progress. Goals and benchmarks have to be reoriented to what is achievable, and to what will further the process. Note I did not say 'lowered'. Pitino is speaking the language of rehab which IMO is correct for where we are. He has a ton of work to do, and while at times I wish for an older more experienced coach, usually I am glad for a young, hungry coach because that is what it is going to take.
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Tell me something. Are rehab counselors, therapists, and caseworkers paid over $1 million per year and do they have partially guaranteed seven year contracts? I think they also have more clients to worry about.

If Pitino is recruiting players who need rehab instead of further development in an activity where they have excelled for years, then we really have a problem.
 

You know your favorite team has had a disappointing season when you start hearing this kind of gobbly goop!
 

cjbfbp said:
Tell me something. Are rehab counselors, therapists, and caseworkers paid over $1 million per year and do they have partially guaranteed seven year contracts? I think they also have more clients to worry about.

If Pitino is recruiting players who need rehab instead of further development in an activity where they have excelled for years, then we really have a problem.
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You're not understanding my point at all but that's ok.
 

SelectionSunday said:
You know your favorite team has had a disappointing season when you start hearing this kind of gobbly goop!
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Sure! And they have. But I bet if we simply say they haven't met expectations they'll do great in Chicago? Like that is the issue? Expectations? That's one of the nonsense phrases of sports talk, along with "unacceptable" and "inexcusable".
This is a very tough turn to maneuver and that is whyPitino is being paid the big bucks.
 

Moonlight said:
You're not understanding my point at all but that's ok.
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No, I understand your point (a very pedestrian reply of dismissal by the way; I hope you don't stoop to calling me "immature" next because I'm pushing 60 and am pretty sure that I have as much education as you). I'm just rejecting your analogy and equivalence. At this level of competition and compensation (and with the types of human subjects involved), interested parties don't have the same level of patience as they do in the activity you describe. And, as far as I'm concerned, that's "ok" too.
 

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