PiPress: 'Recruiting is recruiting,' Gophers coach Jerry Kill says

This thread is hilarious... all the same yutzes who 4 years ago were saying we couldn't win without big-time talent and big-time recruiting to get that talent here, now saying it doesn't matter as long as we have a coach who knows how to coach a bunch of 1 & 2* guys up into Big Ten contenders....

Remind me again why we fired Mason???

Fire the Gopher Hole brain trust is more like it......
 

That heart and soul will come from in-state and the arms and legs from the big hotbed style of recruiting does work for schools like Minnesota. It is what Iowa, Wisconsin, Nebraska, etc. do. This is what Turner Gill has stated what he is trying to do at KU.

It is a smart way of doing things. The in-state kid are the glue of your program and when you put what top talent you can land from elsewhere (namely skill positions), it can make a great combo for success. You need kids on your roster that would eat, sleep, drink and basically die for your University/Program... that comes from your in-state kids.
 


hahaha @ the people talking about championships. We need a winning record season before we can talk about that. Can't learn to walk before you learn to crawl.
 

Hey, so did Brewster!

What does Kill's 2-12 record against teams with a winning record say about his ability to coach?

Of course you're disregarding the fact that:
1) NIU was rebuilding
2) Many happened in year one of rebuilding
3) Many came against BCS teams and were close losses
4) They beat several BCS teams including MN and Purdue that were under .500. No matter how bad the teams were, that's still a solid win when you consider what he had to work with at NIU. For the Temple game this year, they had 14,000 fans. NDSU probably draws more than that.

I bet if he had stayed at NIU for another 3 years, that record against above .500 teams would probably be much better.
 


What does Kill's 2-12 record against teams with a winning record say about his ability to coach?

How can we be sure that those losses happened? I know I wasn't at any of the games in person, so I can't be sure that they actually took place.
 

can you explain illinois to me? florida? texas? notre dame? usc? all are teams filled with four and five star recruits and had poor years this year.

then there are teams like boise state, tcu, utah, ucf, uconn, northwestern. all teams that play substantially better than their recruiting stars predict.

Are you sure you want to use Texas as an example of why recruiting isn't important? Yeah, 2010 wasn't so hot. They also lost 2 games combined in the previous 2 years, and 8 combined over the previous four years.

USC? Florida? For heaven's sake man, get a clue. One down year doesn't mean recruiting isn't important.

Recruiting isn't everything, but poor recruiting, over time, spells doom.

As for this 'coach them up' thing, that's all well and good, but some of you seem to think that Kill will be the only coach doing any 'coaching.' What you seem to forget is that you can take a four and five start recruit and 'coach them up' too...which is exactly what the best coaches do.

Start with a 2 and coach him up, or start with a 4 and coach him up just as much...which do you think leads to better long term results?

Let's hope Kill can recruit the kind of athletes the program needs, because if he can't he's not going to be successful. It's that simple. Both parts are requried...the coaching part AND the recruiting part. This is the Big Ten, people.
 

To a point

Are you sure you want to use Texas as an example of why recruiting isn't important? Yeah, 2010 wasn't so hot. They also lost 2 games combined in the previous 2 years, and 8 combined over the previous four years.

USC? Florida? For heaven's sake man, get a clue. One down year doesn't mean recruiting isn't important.

Recruiting isn't everything, but poor recruiting, over time, spells doom.

As for this 'coach them up' thing, that's all well and good, but some of you seem to think that Kill will be the only coach doing any 'coaching.' What you seem to forget is that you can take a four and five start recruit and 'coach them up' too...which is exactly what the best coaches do.

Start with a 2 and coach him up, or start with a 4 and coach him up just as much...which do you think leads to better long term results?

Let's hope Kill can recruit the kind of athletes the program needs, because if he can't he's not going to be successful. It's that simple. Both parts are requried...the coaching part AND the recruiting part. This is the Big Ten, people.

There are some 1 and 2 star recruits who will not accept coaching. Just as there are some 4 and 5 star guys who know it all. These kids don't get any better. The key is finding players with an insatiable desire to improve and learn. Those guys become contributors, all conference, NFL guys etc. The kids who won't listen , who want to do it their way. That's all there is to them. They don't improve. Deciphering who is who is a huge part of evaluating talent.
 

Recruiting is important, but coaching is more important. I've had my fill of recruiting and no coaching. Winning is the best recruiter there is. Why do so many people insist that Kill will not be able to recruit?
 




Recruiting is important, but coaching is more important. I've had my fill of recruiting and no coaching. Winning is the best recruiter there is. Why do so many people insist that Kill will not be able to recruit?

I don't see many people insisting he can't recruit. Nobody can possibly know.

I see plenty of people insisting it doesn't matter. That's a pretty big stretch.
 

Recruiting is important, but coaching is more important. I've had my fill of recruiting and no coaching. Winning is the best recruiter there is. Why do so many people insist that Kill will not be able to recruit?

It is the only thing they can try to hang their hat on right now. Everyone knows he can coach. I hope everyone knows that only way to recruit here is to win. Until that happens recruiting will be tough.
 

Confucius says: You need to win to be able to recruit, but you to need to recruit in order to win
 



I believe it was only '08 and '09 -- not quite the last four years.

If you want to look at it by individual years then we "out-recruited" them 3 of the last 4. I'm just saying OVER the last 4 years we have been better according to the experts.
 

If you want to look at it by individual years then we "out-recruited" them 3 of the last 4. I'm just saying OVER the last 4 years we have been better according to the experts.

No, two of the last four years. In '07, we were 9th in the BT and Iowa was 4th. In '08, we were 3rd and Iowa was 8th. In '09, we were 6th and Iowa was 10th. In '10, we were 6th and Iowa was 5th. Over that stretch, Wisconsin was 6th, 5th, 7th, and 10th. And, like '07 both pretty much ate our lunch for the previous 10 years.
 

I don't see many people insisting he can't recruit. Nobody can possibly know.

I see plenty of people insisting it doesn't matter. That's a pretty big stretch.

actually, no one is saying that recruiting is not important. what people are saying is that star-gazing is not going to make for a good football team.
 

Claeys' resume also includes coaching several standout defensive players, most recently NIU's Larry English, the first-round draft choice of the NFL's San Diego Chargers in 2009. Claeys also coached Seattle Seahawks' 1999 first-round draft choice Lamar King at Saginaw Valley State. Other NFL players he tutored include 10-year NFL veteran DE Paul Spicer at Saginaw Valley State, and current New York Giants' linebacker Bart Scott at Southern Illinois, a 2006 Pro-Bowler as a member of the Baltimore Ravens.

http://minnesota.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1163893

If his staff can identify and recruit future NFL Pro-bowlers to Southern Illinois, I don't have any concerns about our recruiting. If we don't win and don't see stars, then I might question their recruiting ability. Until then, they have the benefit of the doubt in my mind based on past experience.
 


Kill doesn't have to land a class full of 4 or 5 star players, but a solid across the board 3 star class with a few 2 or 4 star kids sprinkled in would be great. That is what Wisconsin does.
 

If his staff can identify and recruit future NFL Pro-bowlers to Southern Illinois, I don't have any concerns about our recruiting.

Who? He didn't recruit Bart Scott and Brandon Jacobs was a transfer from Auburn.
 


That "2-12" argument is one of the lamest attempts to find something wrong with a coach that i've ever seen.

If that has to be held against Kill, it was to be held against Al Golden, Hoke, Troy Calhoun, etc (pretty much every single mid-major coach not named Chris Petersen or Gary Patterson).
 

I agree.

Hey, so did Brewster!

What does Kill's 2-12 record against teams with a winning record say about his ability to coach?

There is so much crazy talk going on here you would think we hired Nick Saban or Mack Brown. Every one is assuming that because Kill was able to win more games in the third year at NIU, primarily using the last guy's players, than were won the year before he came - which was by all accounts an off year similar to what the Vikes are having this year - that somehow Kill's body of work is so tremendous that recruits and opposing coaches are going to fall into line and we are moving to the top of the Big Ten, if not next year, at least by the year after. This is exactly the same unrealistic pile of goo we lived through when Brewster was hired.

Folks, we hired a bargain basement coach. He has no big time experience. As Plinnius and others point out, his record against successful programs is not great. Big time recruits outside of a 200 mile circle of Dekalb probably do not know him and certainly will not be eager to send in their recruiting tape because he is not a glamour coach and the program is fighting Indiana for the bragging rights to say that we are not the worst program in the Big Ten. Unlike so many of you, I fail to see that his comments at his press conference or any of the softball interviews he has given do anything to make me think he is ready to conquer the Big Ten. His performance wasn't awful, but it wasn't stirring and seemed just what you would expect from a MAC coach. He may or may not succeed. No one wishes him to fail. I would be very pleased to see him take us further up the Big Ten pecking order. But, I do not expect that to happen based on the reality of the situation.

To answer the assertion made at the outset of the thread, recruiting is not recruiting. You need someone as the face of your program who can command the respect of those elite (or at least better) athletes we need to make the program competitive. That's why Notre Dame stole Holz from us, that's why Alabama paid for Saban, that's why Stanford has risen to its current prominence. They all went out and found that leader that could be built around. We needed a more commanding personality to turn our culture around. Bruininks said so and said he would spend the money to get one. Then, unfortunately, he left Maturi in charge. Golden, Edsall, Hoke etc. would have provided a better shot, albeit not guaranteed, to break out of our recruiting woes and set us on a winning track. We have gone a different route and this post is not meant to rehash the bothched coaching search.

Currently the common wisdom here appears to be that all we have to do is win and we will get plenty of recruits and the program will take a giant leap forward. This makes the assumption that because Coach Kill is on the scene, we will win. Some point to the fact that Coach Kill stresses hard work and discipline, like no other Big Ten coach ever heard of these virtues. Others claim that he has some sort of winning record that would rival Bobby Bowden and JoePa, ignoring the fact that most of his wins came in the Missouri Valley Football Conference or lesser conferences. I am not saying he is an awful coach or a bad guy. The opposite may well be true, but lets be a little realistic. The odds are not good that he will do any better than his predecessor. In my view, it would be more interesting and informative if we could discuss these issues with a more realistic perspective.

The next stop on the realism highway is to see how many of the recruits, if any, who have commited to Minnesota change their mind instead of assuming that Coach Kill will be able to automatically keep them by talking to them about winning. At the same time it will be informative to find out how many new skilled athletes he will be able to add to the mix. But what we need is the hard data on what is happening, not optimistic blather. When we have this data, we will be in a better position to assess how the Kill era is working out.
 

Without looking too deep:

Didn't Kill turn around a D1 AA program destined for death? He brought them to the top of the level. That means he grew into one of the best recruiters and coaches at that level.

He then moved to NIU, and has done some of the same. I undertand that NIU was decent and had a 2-10 season prior to him showing up. However, he coached another coaches recruits and got them to buy into his coaching. He managed to take the recruiting from 13 in the MAC it 3rd in three season. If you consider the MAC at the same level as the Big East, that is pretty good considering he was not at a BCS school. That means he has moved to the upper levels of the Mid-Major level.

This is what the U needs someone that has built from the bottom up and coached up at every gig he has had.

That is what the U liked and is getting. Let's all hope it works out.
 

Without looking too deep:

Didn't Kill turn around a D1 AA program destined for death? He brought them to the top of the level. That means he grew into one of the best recruiters and coaches at that level.

He then moved to NIU, and has done some of the same. I undertand that NIU was decent and had a 2-10 season prior to him showing up. However, he coached another coaches recruits and got them to buy into his coaching. He managed to take the recruiting from 13 in the MAC it 3rd in three season. If you consider the MAC at the same level as the Big East, that is pretty good considering he was not at a BCS school. That means he has moved to the upper levels of the Mid-Major level.

This is what the U needs someone that has built from the bottom up and coached up at every gig he has had.

That is what the U liked and is getting. Let's all hope it works out.

Rationality and being positive are polar opposites. You have to realize this.
 

So far I like Coach Kill but I will be the first to admit that it is based on POTENTIAL not guarentees. He's a natural leader, and a hard worker, able to attract and keep good people. For the people that wonder if he can win, he has coached MAC level talent to a 2-3 record against the B10, and was 1-0 at SIU with 1AA talent. What will he do with at least average level B10 talent? Just about everyone agrees that the big question mark is recruiting, let's wait until Feb 2nd, before we panic. If our classes average three stars we'll have enough talent to get to mid conference and win enough to upgrade the recruiting.
 

The games won't be played until 2011, so any needless...

boasting or needless bashing is just going to have to wait. Sorry boys and girls, only the Big Ten record is going to tell us how this whole thing plays out.

At Michigan, they thought they were going to own the Big Ten when richrod took over. He had been so successful at West Virginia. Well, he is running the cornblues into the ground in Ann Arbor. How can anyone lose at Michigan the way richrod has lost at Michigan? Just how many people predicted that before he had ever coached a game in Ann Arbor? How many people thought he was high profile enough? How many people had a clue just how far he would drag Michigan down?

They play the games for a very good reason: to remind people that talk is cheap and actions speak a lot louder than all the "spins" about how the new coach will or will not do. At the U of M, the coaching staff has to be finalized. The coaches need to evaluate the returning talent. All the things that real, honest to goodness football coaches do during the off season have to be done. And, when the 2011 season has been completed and is in the books, we will have a much better idea about whether the hire was a really good hire, an average hire, a below average hire or a KILLER hire!

I think Coach Kill will do just fine, but, only the Big Ten record of the Golden Gopher Football Team can tell us just how well the first year will have gone, IF it goes well at all. All the talk in the world before the 2011 season has been completed will be just intellectualized b.s. and emotionally charged personal opinion.

So, get on with the b.s. and emotionally chared personal opinions. Just as long as everyone realizes that only the Big Ten record can tell us just exactly what we all need to know...

; 0 )
 

Big 10 record plus not losing to the Jackrabbit/Siox/Bison/Coyotes.

From now on, I am no longer going to support any coach who loses to any of these teams at any point.....JK....kinda
 

Walrus, . . .

boasting or needless bashing is just going to have to wait. Sorry boys and girls, only the Big Ten record is going to tell us how this whole thing plays out.

At Michigan, they thought they were going to own the Big Ten when richrod took over. He had been so successful at West Virginia. Well, he is running the cornblues into the ground in Ann Arbor. How can anyone lose at Michigan the way richrod has lost at Michigan? Just how many people predicted that before he had ever coached a game in Ann Arbor? How many people thought he was high profile enough? How many people had a clue just how far he would drag Michigan down?

They play the games for a very good reason: to remind people that talk is cheap and actions speak a lot louder than all the "spins" about how the new coach will or will not do. At the U of M, the coaching staff has to be finalized. The coaches need to evaluate the returning talent. All the things that real, honest to goodness football coaches do during the off season have to be done. And, when the 2011 season has been completed and is in the books, we will have a much better idea about whether the hire was a really good hire, an average hire, a below average hire or a KILLER hire!

I think Coach Kill will do just fine, but, only the Big Ten record of the Golden Gopher Football Team can tell us just how well the first year will have gone, IF it goes well at all. All the talk in the world before the 2011 season has been completed will be just intellectualized b.s. and emotionally charged personal opinion.

So, get on with the b.s. and emotionally chared personal opinions. Just as long as everyone realizes that only the Big Ten record can tell us just exactly what we all need to know...

; 0 )

well said.
 

Wasn't Urban Myer a graduate of the Mac.?

Bowling Green 2001-2003
 




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