Philip Nelson Is Leaving The Gopher Program UPDATED 1/29: Transferring to Rutgers

[tikited]

Using your logic, you would have also shown Rashede the door, since he didn't even have 3 marginal games in his first two years.

I've never claimed that Nelson was great or even good over the course of his first two years. However, Nelson won't be "easily replaced," as the total # of starts by all other QBs on our roster is 2. We again have no depth, little experience, and no upperclassmen at the QB position. That sucks.

Different positions. Different scenarios. I didn't show Nelson the door. He left. Rashede had to go through a few position changes which makes the comparison invalid. Replacing a 50% completion guy shouldn't be impossible. Again, not ideal but not a season ending situation. Injuries will be the biggest concern imo-not the quality of play.

Oh, you did write that Nelson was lights out during much of last season. You also wrote that Mitch is the worst starting QB in the country.

 

[John Galt]

Different positions. Different scenarios. I didn't show Nelson the door. He left. Rashede had to go through a few position changes which makes the comparison invalid. Replacing a 50% completion guy shouldn't be impossible. Again, not ideal but not a season ending situation. Injuries will be the biggest concern imo-not the quality of play.

Oh, you did write that Nelson was lights out during much of last season. You also wrote that Mitch is the worst starting QB in the country.

The Rashede comparison is completely valid, especially since he got a redshirt year and Nelson didn't. If Nelson only had 3 good games in 2 seasons (really 1.5 since he didn't start until game 6 or 7 of his freshman year), how many good games did Rashede have in his first 3 years? The answer is 0.

I said Nelson played really well during the 4 game B1G winning streak, and I stand by that. He had at least 5 passes in the Nebraska game that were flat-out dropped by wide open receivers. It was the best stretch of play by a Gopher QB since??? maybe Cockerham in 1999.

And I said Mitch was the worst-starting QB for the Gophers in the last 30 years. I'll stand by that too, and predict we see Streveler or McKinzy by the end of 2014.

 

[tikited]

The Rashede comparison is completely valid, especially since he got a redshirt year and Nelson didn't. If Nelson only had 3 good games in 2 seasons (really 1.5 since he didn't start until game 6 or 7 of his freshman year), how many good games did Rashede have in his first 3 years? The answer is 0.

I said Nelson played really well during the 4 game B1G winning streak, and I stand by that. He had at least 5 passes in the Nebraska game that were flat-out dropped by wide open receivers. It was the best stretch of play by a Gopher QB since??? maybe Cockerham in 1999.

And I said Mitch was the worst-starting QB for the Gophers in the last 30 years. I'll stand by that too, and predict we see Streveler or McKinzy by the end of 2014.

I like my outcome better as I think Mitch (and some help from Streveler and maybe even McKinzy) will out produce the last two seasons in QB play. Either way, I am feeling better than you are for next season....so I win.

 

[e.bigelow]

The Rashede comparison is completely valid, especially since he got a redshirt year and Nelson didn't. If Nelson only had 3 good games in 2 seasons (really 1.5 since he didn't start until game 6 or 7 of his freshman year), how many good games did Rashede have in his first 3 years? The answer is 0.

I said Nelson played really well during the 4 game B1G winning streak, and I stand by that. He had at least 5 passes in the Nebraska game that were flat-out dropped by wide open receivers. It was the best stretch of play by a Gopher QB since??? maybe Cockerham in 1999.

And I said Mitch was the worst-starting QB for the Gophers in the last 30 years. I'll stand by that too, and predict we see Streveler or McKinzy by the end of 2014.

I agree with almost all of this, John Galt, except the bold part. I think we will see Streveler or someone else before seasons end, I just think (AND HOPE) it is not in the compacity that we saw Leidner switched out with Nelson this past season. I agree 100% that Leidner was the worst starting QB we have had in quite some time during the regular season. I do have to say though, what I saw from him in the 4th quarter vs. Syracuse leaves me optimistic he can HOPEFULLY take the next step next fall and be able to make more that one read on a pass play like last fall. I certainly know that is what we so desperately need. I will be rooting for him to succeed.

 

[cncmin]

The lack of passing attempts stemmed directly from inconsistent QB play. Nothing more, nothing less. Other than the Indiana game in which Maxx caught a wide open TD pass towards the end of the game, we won on the ground. Sucks to lose Nelson, as it's difficult to say how he would have progressed in the next two seasons, but Kill runs the ball. Leidner was the better option runner. If he can develop some consistency, look out.

Not if holding onto the football is your first priority, and Nelson starting ahead of Leidner and playing significantly more minutes (when healthy) than Leidner on a "running team" suggests the coaches didn't agree with you either.

Leidner was a slightly better runner than Nelson when he held onto the football. Nelson was a significantly better passer, though neither lit it up on the passing side of things; a lot to do with a mediocre line and lower than average receivers, esp. after Engel went down.

 

[RodentRampage]

Different positions. Different scenarios. I didn't show Nelson the door. He left. Rashede had to go through a few position changes which makes the comparison invalid. Replacing a 50% completion guy shouldn't be impossible. Again, not ideal but not a season ending situation. Injuries will be the biggest concern imo-not the quality of play.

Oh, you did write that Nelson was lights out during much of last season. You also wrote that Mitch is the worst starting QB in the country.

+1 We didn't show him the door, we'd have been perfectly happy to have him stay, but he made his choice.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Leidner was a slightly better runner than Nelson when he held onto the football. Nelson was a significantly better passer, though neither lit it up on the passing side of things; a lot to do with a mediocre line and lower than average receivers, esp. after Engel went down.

Body of work body of work, body of work. If you are going to cherry pick that 4 game series as demonstrative of Nelson's body of work then we can legitimately cherry pick Leidner's play vs SJSU, several drives in the Mich game, the bowl game...etc.

Nelson's putrid far outweighed the good. That's why his stats stink and Leidner's were better. We can play this cherry picking game all day long. Leidner needs to learn ball protection amongst a lot of other things but he has potential.

If you continue to say Nelson was a significantly better passer, which is false in every objective category and IMHO subjectively you have lost your credibility. Nelson was the worst QB in the Big Ten and it wasn't even that close. He is replaceable.

 

[tjgopher]

Nelson was a significantly better passer

Huh? Based on what?

Can you offer up some evidence or statistics that back up this claim that Nelson is a significantly better passer?

 

[Deleted_User]

Leidner was better.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Leidner was better.

I think the bottom line is that neither one of them was very good last year so arguing over which was better out of Leidner and Nelson is like arguing who should be at the back of the NFL power rankings each week.

Nelson is absolutely replaceable from a talent standpoint but losing his experience with the playbook and time in the system is unfortunate. The disappointing part about Nelson will continue to be that he did not come anywhere close to matching the insane hype that was placed on him by this board when he got here.

 

[DMB123]

View attachment 2522

Body of work body of work, body of work. If you are going to cherry pick that 4 game series as demonstrative of Nelson's body of work then we can legitimately cherry pick Leidner's play vs SJSU, several drives in the Mich game, the bowl game...etc.

Nelson's putrid far outweighed the good. That's why his stats stink and Leidner's were better. We can play this cherry picking game all day long. Leidner needs to learn ball protection amongst a lot of other things but he has potential.

If you continue to say Nelson was a significantly better passer, which is false in every objective category and IMHO subjectively you have lost your credibility. Nelson was the worst QB in the Big Ten and it wasn't even that close. He is replaceable.

This is what the Nelson backers can't see for some reason. Philip Nelson was flat out bad last year, his 2nd year as the starting QB. You're right, he's very replaceable and we will be better at QB next year.

 

[lakesgopher]

This is what the Nelson backers can't see for some reason. Philip Nelson was flat out bad last year, his 2nd year as the starting QB. You're right, he's very replaceable and we will be better at QB next year.

How bad is leidner if he couldn't beat Nelson out??? Kill doesn't seem to be a guy that plays guys because their dad is in his ear, I feel like kill plays the best player available. If Nelson was as bad as many on gopherhole want to believe and leidner couldn't beat him out...we are in trouble.


I like both Nelson and leidner, I thought this upcoming season would be the one that separated the starter from the back up. It's leidner's job to lose now. I hope he goes beyond any of our expectations.

 

[e.bigelow]

This is what the Nelson backers can't see for some reason. Philip Nelson was flat out bad last year, his 2nd year as the starting QB. You're right, he's very replaceable and we will be better at QB next year.

And yet, Leidner still could not win the starting job away from him. Hmm...

 

[Pompous Elitist]

They had invested a lot of time and reps into Phillip. To change course mid-year is a big deal.

Like all of us, I'm sure they hoped and expected he would keep improving. The late season swoon probably caused a lot of friction to develop and ultimately led to the quick exit in the bowl game and the subsequent quitting of the team.

 

[station19]

I think the bottom line is that neither one of them was very good last year so arguing over which was better out of Leidner and Nelson is like arguing who should be at the back of the NFL power rankings each week.

Nelson is absolutely replaceable from a talent standpoint but losing his experience with the playbook and time in the system is unfortunate. The disappointing part about Nelson will continue to be that he did not come anywhere close to matching the insane hype that was placed on him by this board when he got here.

Pretty much says it all.

I will say however the insane hype was more than just us intellects on GH.

 

[upnorthkid]

why is this still a discussion? he's gone. get over it and focus on who we have now. nelson will have zero impact on next year's team from here on out.

 

[Maximus]

why is this still a discussion? he's gone. get over it and focus on who we have now. nelson will have zero impact on next year's team from here on out.

Don't click on the thread. You're welcome.

 

[Maximus]

And I said Mitch was the worst-starting QB for the Gophers in the last 30 years. I'll stand by that too, and predict we see Streveler or McKinzy by the end of 2014.

Marquel Fleetwood:

1989: 0 TDs, 6 INTs
1990: 6 TDs, 7 INTs
1991: 5 TDs, 12 INTs
1992: 7 TDS, 19 INTs
Career: 18 TDs, 44 INTs

 

[Killjoy]

Don't click on the thread. You're welcome.

Maybe some of us don't like summer reruns. Just saying. Your're welcome.

 

[John Galt]

why is this still a discussion? he's gone. get over it and focus on who we have now. nelson will have zero impact on next year's team from here on out.

I'm about ready to move on, but it's still in discussion because of the moronic comments from some on here saying that Nelson is "easily replaceable." Given Nelson's lack of production in many key games, I wish I could say that he is "easily replaceable." But when I look at the current roster, he obviously isn't. 8 weeks ago, the staff still thought he gave us the best chance to win. Last I checked, here are the current options:

1. Leidner, who couldn't surpass Nelson despite some horrific games by Phil.
2. Streveler, who broke his hand and may not be able to play QB ever again. Zero career games, and little recruiting hype.
3. McKinzy, who has been on campus for about a month.
4. A group of PWOs who have been with the team for less than a year.

In light of those options, it would be very beneficial to have Nelson back for his junior year.

 

[John Galt]

Marquel Fleetwood:

1989: 0 TDs, 6 INTs
1990: 6 TDs, 7 INTs
1991: 5 TDs, 12 INTs
1992: 7 TDS, 19 INTs
Career: 18 TDs, 44 INTs

But Fleetwood sure could run. Every time Mitch has the ball, he's likely to put it on the ground. I literally cringed and expected a fumble every time he took off.

 

[John Galt]

Maybe some of us don't like summer reruns. Just saying. Your're welcome.

I could care less about half the threads on this board. Rather than jump on them and tell the participants not to discuss whatever they find interesting, I choose to focus on what I find entertaining. You might try the same.

 

[Maximus]

But Fleetwood sure could run. Every time Mitch has the ball, he's likely to put it on the ground. I literally cringed and expected a fumble every time he took off.

1989: 35 attempts, 110 yards, 3.1 ypc, 3 TDs
1990: 92 attempts, 268 yards, 2.9 ypc, 5 TDs,
1991: 96 attempts, 178 yards, 1.9 ypc, 2 TDs
1992: 116 attempts, 319 yards, 2.8 ypc, 5 TDs
Career: 339 attempts, 875 yards, 2.6 ypc, 15 TDs

Leidner
2013: 102 attempts, 407 yards, 4.0 ypc, 7 TDs

I lived (barely) through the Fleetwood years. No comparison.

 

[dpodoll68]

Leidner
2013: 102 attempts, 407 yards, 4.0 ypc, 7 TDs

Extrapolated out to 339 attempts: 1353 yards, 4.0 ypc, 23 TDs

No one is saying that Nelson was the greatest (or the worst), but this revisionist history that Leidner was the worst thing in decades is just bizarre.

 

[e.bigelow]

I'm about ready to move on, but it's still in discussion because of the moronic comments from some on here saying that Nelson is "easily replaceable." Given Nelson's lack of production in many key games, I wish I could say that he is "easily replaceable." But when I look at the current roster, he obviously isn't. 8 weeks ago, the staff still thought he gave us the best chance to win. Last I checked, here are the current options:

1. Leidner, who couldn't surpass Nelson despite some horrific games by Phil.
2. Streveler, who broke his hand and may not be able to play QB ever again. Zero career games, and little recruiting hype.
3. McKinzy, who has been on campus for about a month.
4. A group of PWOs who have been with the team for less than a year.

In light of those options, it would be very beneficial to have Nelson back for his junior year.

+1.

 

[btowngopher]

+1.

+2

 

[John Galt]

1989: 35 attempts, 110 yards, 3.1 ypc, 3 TDs
1990: 92 attempts, 268 yards, 2.9 ypc, 5 TDs,
1991: 96 attempts, 178 yards, 1.9 ypc, 2 TDs
1992: 116 attempts, 319 yards, 2.8 ypc, 5 TDs
Career: 339 attempts, 875 yards, 2.6 ypc, 15 TDs

Leidner
2013: 102 attempts, 407 yards, 4.0 ypc, 7 TDs

I lived (barely) through the Fleetwood years. No comparison.

The fact that you had to go back 25 years to Fleetwood is helping my point. Fleetwood also threw for over 5000 yards and is the 5th all-time leading passer in Gopher history, so I'm not sure if he can be put at the bottom of the list.
http://www.gophersports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/passers.html

Leidner's body of work came primarily against Western Michigan and SJSU. Let's see how he fares over an 8 game B1G schedule.

 

[btowngopher]

G Att Comp % yrds y/a ay/a tds ints rating
13 130 235 55.3 1755 7.5 6.9 7 6 122.8
3 39 53 73.6 490 9.2 7.8 3 3 158.6
12 228 415 54.9 2914 7.0 5.8 16 18 118.0
12 221 377 58.6 2717 7.2 6.5 13 12 124.2

This is for people that think Nelson and or Leidner have already shown us what they are. Or any QB after only a year or two. These are the stats of a QB after 3 years, any guesses to who? Hint he won a Heisman his senior year.
G comp att % yrds y/a ay/a tds ints rating
13 309 489 63.2 3942 8.1 8.5 33 10 149.1

 

[dpodoll68]

Leidner's body of work came primarily against Western Michigan and SJSU.

Leidner threw more passes in the Michigan game alone (21) and the Syracuse game alone (22) than he did in the WMU and SJSU games combined (20). Further, these allegedly "horrible" performances (against major conference competition) would be Nelson's 4th and 6th best games all time (out of 19) in QB rating if they were his.

 

[John Galt]

Leidner threw more passes in the Michigan game alone (21) and the Syracuse game alone (22) than he did in the WMU and SJSU games combined (20). Further, these allegedly "horrible" performances (against major conference competition) would be Nelson's 4th and 6th best games all time (out of 19) in QB rating if they were his.

I was referring to Leidner's rushing numbers. Almost half his rushing yards came against SJSU.