Phil Nelson

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If we had a chance to win the big ten or go to a New Year's Day bowl pulling Nelson's redshirt would make sense. Winning 1-2 big ten games is what we are maybe looking at, so there is no reason to pull a qb's redshirt
 

MNVCGUY said:
He was a very nice looking QB from the state of MN who has gone up against a handful of D1 players over the course of his entire career.
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Are we sure about this? Are we sure he played against any future D1 players in his HS career?
 

No, we will benefit from him, Nelson playing in 2016 a lot more than anything in 2012, it is just not worth burning Nelson or Leidners red-shirt. That is a battle and competition for another day. We have to play with who we have this year.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Are we sure about this? Are we sure he played against any future D1 players in his HS career?
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Good point, given the overall lack of D1 players that come out of this state there is a chance he never saw any of them on an opposing defense.
 

Depends on how you define HS career. I do recall he was part of a HS all star game and a fairley prestigeous one at that but I don't remember which one. I believe he played pretty well in that game and was voted captain of his team by his teamates based on his play, leadership etc. throughout the course of the week leading up to said game, in addition to earning the starting spot competing against other D1 QB recruites. If you broke down the division 1 tallent on the roster of the team he played for and on the roster he played against in that game then the answer to this question is yes, he has played against many D1 players and the question then almost seems silly because of the incredible tallent and number of D1 players involved in that game. Not tyring to argue as I do understand the debate but I also think Philip has proved himself against top tier tallent at the HS level.
 


afurry91 said:
Not worth it to pull the redshirt off now. I'd rather Nelson get a full season with "pre-season" games against the scrubs Kill will schedule for us. I don't think at this point he would be that much of an improvement over Shortell.
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Basically agree. All would be better served if he stays red shirted IMO
 

GopherSOB said:
Depends on how you define HS career. I do recall he was part of a HS all star game and a fairley prestigeous one at that but I don't remember which one. I believe he played pretty well in that game and was voted captain of his team by his teamates based on his play, leadership etc. throughout the course of the week leading up to said game, in addition to earning the starting spot competing against other D1 QB recruites. If you broke down the division 1 tallent on the roster of the team he played for and on the roster he played against in that game then the answer to this question is yes, he has played against many D1 players and the question then almost seems silly because of the incredible tallent and number of D1 players involved in that game. Not tyring to argue as I do understand the debate but I also think Philip has proved himself against top tier tallent at the HS level.
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All fair points. I believe it was the Semper Fi game that he played in, along with Maxx Williams. It is also fair to point out that he rarely if ever played against D-I talent in regularly scheduled HS games and that makes the margin for error a little greater in determining how good he is/will be in college.
 

dpodoll68 said:
All fair points. I believe it was the Semper Fi game that he played in, along with Maxx Williams. It is also fair to point out that he rarely if ever played against D-I talent in regularly scheduled HS games and that makes the margin for error a little greater in determining how good he is/will be in college.
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Totally agree. No doubt the kid has talent but having talent and being ready to lead a D1 football team as a true freshman are two very different things. It is not impossible that he sees the field at some point this season but it will amost certainly be due to injury if it does happen.

Even with as much as he has struggled the past few weeks I would be willing to bet the coaches still feel far more confident in running Max out there as opposed to handing the keys to an unknown commodity. There is the chance Nelson could be great right away. More likely though he will have an adjustment period and pretty steep learning curve. Much better to deal with that during the non-conf cupcake season.
 




Just my opinion, but I say no. You give Gray a well deserved chance when healthy and if he's not see what you got in Max. I don't think throwing a true freshman in with most of the OL and WR's banged up is a good idea.
 

I would rather see them get Maye ready as a backup then see them burn his red shirt.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Are we sure about this? Are we sure he played against any future D1 players in his HS career?
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He played against Gopher Maxx Williams twice. Williams was a LB at Waconia. Altho I am sure he is better now, he nor Leidner looked even remotely ready to play at the spring game.
 

Do not let your man love for Nelson outweigh any common sense you may have.
 



calminnfan said:
I would rather see them get Maye ready as a backup then see them burn his red shirt.
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When Gray did not dress against Syracuse, Dexter Foreman was in uniform. It is more likely that he would play ahead of any of the above mentioned scenarios.
 

Stan The Caddy said:
When Gray did not dress against Syracuse, Dexter Foreman was in uniform. It is more likely that he would play ahead of any of the above mentioned scenarios.
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fair enough...I would rather see them do that then burn a scholarship on a player we do not know is even ready to hit the field.
 



If playing Nelson is ghe difference between winning and losing a game, I would say play Nelson. If a backup needs to come in, and the game is out of hand, I would save his redshirt.
 

Triple D said:
Fact - Gray's ankle will not be fully healed between now and any time before the end of the season. He not only has a high ankle sprain but now he has a low ankle sprain. Therefore we cannot count on Gray to play meaningful time for the rest of the year given this type of re-ocurring injury. If he does play there is an incredibly high percentage of chance that he gets reinjured and has to leave the game. Too bad because we need him and he is our team leader.

Fact- Shortell is not improving as a starting QB even though he's had 3 full games and the vast majority of practice reps. You can either do it on game day or you can't.

Fact- Gray probably won't play this week, and Nelson will be the back-up. Shortell was dinged in the NW game, there is a pretty good chance we may end up burning Nelson's redshirt due to injury anyway, see Gray, re-ocurring injury and not 100% for the rest of the year.

This team started out 4-0, we are now 4-2 and are losing any momentum we had for a shot at a bowl game. With the North Carolina PR nightmare we are now in, and going into Wisconsin where there is a pretty good chance we will get annihilated, this team needs a spark and something that will show people that there is hope for the future.

These are the reasons that I think we need to use Nelson, wish things didn't pan out this way but you have to play the cards you are dealt. No one wanted Gray to get hurt but it happened and there is nothing we can do about it now and if we want to have any shot at a meaningful season to get to a bowl game and to attract a better class of recruits for next year we need to seriously consider using Nelson. If Nelson plays great he may turn some heads and people might want to think about playing here. If he doesn't play, there is a pretty good chance we finish out 4-8, maybe 5-7, and that isn't going to create any kind of excitement.
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Fact - You don't know what a fact is.
 

Playing Nelson this year would screw someone over big time. If Nelson plays it has to be all in on him, meaning he is the full-time starter the rest of the season. It would also mean the end of Shortels career as a gopher. Regardless of any rhetoric about a open QB competition, Shortel would have to know its Nelsons job. Or Nelson would lose a year as a stop gap in a meaningless season.

For those who don't like the idea of burning Nelson's redshirt....sucks being you.
 

Sportsfan24 said:
Playing Nelson this year would screw someone over big time. If Nelson plays it has to be all in on him, meaning he is the full-time starter the rest of the season. It would also mean the end of Shortels career as a gopher. Regardless of any rhetoric about a open QB competition, Shortel would have to know its Nelsons job. Or Nelson would lose a year as a stop gap in a meaningless season.

For those who don't like the idea of burning Nelson's redshirt....sucks being you.
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Aren't you making a case that it wouldn't be wise to burn Nelson's redshirt and that it sucks for anyone who thinks the same?
 

Triple D said:
Fact- Shortell is not improving as a starting QB even though he's had 3 full games and the vast majority of practice reps. You can either do it on game day or you can't.
.
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I disagree with this assesment completely. I thought Max was better against NWestern than he was against Iowa. He was absolutely better against NWestern than he was last year.

If you're talking about the difference between him against Iowa and Western Michigan, maybe you think it could have something to do with the level of competition?
 

Triple D said:
I say let's do it. If the kid is half as good as advertised and better than Shortell there is nothing to lose. Had we connected on throws to DCT in the Iowa game and Engel and/or Fruechte in the NW game we could easily be 5-1 or do I dare even 6-0 now. The strength of this team is the WR's and TE, we need to capitalize on that now while we have it. Get Nelson some experience and if Streveler pans out we can red shirt him next year and have a good succession plan for the future. Do you think Nelson would like his first game to be against the Badgers, I'd imagine he'd be sky high and have something to play for. Plus Kill likes to talk about how young we are anyway.
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Shortell and Nelson are really similar rated recruits. So if you're talking about being as good as advertised, they are advertised pretty similarily.

Nelson should be fired up to play against anybody, we don't need to burn a redshirt for the added incentive for him to get pumped.

There will always be a succession plan, we will recruit a QB every single year.
 

Sportsfan24 said:
Playing Nelson this year would screw someone over big time. If Nelson plays it has to be all in on him, meaning he is the full-time starter the rest of the season. It would also mean the end of Shortels career as a gopher. Regardless of any rhetoric about a open QB competition, Shortel would have to know its Nelsons job. Or Nelson would lose a year as a stop gap in a meaningless season.

For those who don't like the idea of burning Nelson's redshirt....sucks being you.
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It all depends on the circumstances that lead to Nelson playing. If he plays due to injuries there absolutely would be an open competition next year between him and Shortell and probably Leidner. I think it goes without saying that IF Nelson lives up to the god like status that some here have bestowed on him then it is a no brainer that the job is his from the day of his first game until his glorious coronation as the greatest QB to ever wear the Maroon and Gold.

Nelson is a complete unknown. Not one person here knows what kind of college football player he would be now or will be in the future. Hopefully it won't be this year but he will get his chance to showcase his skills at some point here in the future. Until that time people need to stop assuming that just because he was a well regarded player from the state of MN that he is a lock to be a great college QB. The jump from high school to college is huge. A lot of guys never make the transition and fall by the wayside. Not saying that will happen to Nelson but you have to at least acknowledge that it is a possibility.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Aren't you making a case that it wouldn't be wise to burn Nelson's redshirt and that it sucks for anyone who thinks the same?
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I see you are fluent on sportfan24ism (I sometime can be unclear :)). Yes that is exactly what I mean.
 

MNVCGUY said:
It all depends on the circumstances that lead to Nelson playing. If he plays due to injuries there absolutely would be an open competition next year between him and Shortell and probably Leidner. I think it goes without saying that IF Nelson lives up to the god like status that some here have bestowed on him then it is a no brainer that the job is his from the day of his first game until his glorious coronation as the greatest QB to ever wear the Maroon and Gold.

Nelson is a complete unknown. Not one person here knows what kind of college football player he would be now or will be in the future. Hopefully it won't be this year but he will get his chance to showcase his skills at some point here in the future. Until that time people need to stop assuming that just because he was a well regarded player from the state of MN that he is a lock to be a great college QB. The jump from high school to college is huge. A lot of guys never make the transition and fall by the wayside. Not saying that will happen to Nelson but you have to at least acknowledge that it is a possibility.
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You make some very good points. I didn't even get that far in my thinking. I stopped at would this be good for the player/Nelson. My answer is hell to the no. After the first two weeks of fall practice 3rd team get little to no reps. As a result Nelsons reps have been almost non existent since early/mid August. He received no playing time in the easier part of the schedule. It would be extremely unfair to send him out there against one of the Big Ten upper football programs in not only his first start but his first time on the field in a college game.

The rule of thumb is it's always better to play as a 23 year old rather as a 18 year old. But thats not all; for the sake of this conversation let's assume he is successful, what do you do with the other QB's? You can't put Nelson back on the bench after burning his redshirt and costing him half a season? Do you bench Gray in his senior season? What about Shortel? If Nelson playes poorly (which is likely), it's to be expected; the kid will have had little to no development.

If Kill does this he OWES Nelson because Nelson will be taking one for the team/Kill. Like I said, if this were to happen someone would be royally screwed; I refuse to believe Kill would do this to one of his players.:confused:
 

Sportsfan24 said:
You make some very good points. I didn't even get that far in my thinking. I stopped at would this be good for the player/Nelson. My answer is hell to the no. After the first two weeks of fall practice 3rd team get little to no reps. As a result Nelsons reps have been almost non existent since early/mid August. He received no playing time in the easier part of the schedule. It would be extremely unfair to send him out there against one of the Big Ten upper football programs in not only his first start but his first time on the field in a college game.

The rule of thumb is it's always better to play as a 23 year old rather as a 18 year old. But thats not all; for the sake of this conversation let's assume he is successful, what do you do with the other QB's? You can't put Nelson back on the bench after burning his redshirt and costing him half a season? Do you bench Gray in his senior season? What about Shortel? If Nelson playes poorly (which is likely), it's to be expected; the kid will have had little to no development.

If Kill does this he OWES Nelson because Nelson will be taking one for the team/Kill. Like I said, if this were to happen someone would be royally screwed; I refuse to believe Kill would do this to one of his players.:confused:
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I haven't been attending practices, but hasn't Nelson taken quite a few reps in the 2 huddle system they practice with? MG hasn't been practicing a ton at QB since he has been dinged. (I thought)
 

Phillip Nelson will start at QB tomorrow barring any last minute changes. Per Phil Miller.
 


I have never rebuilt a bad college football program but I really liked Nelson finishing his redshirt and if he is the starter, having a redshirt senior starting qb. I'm lost for words. I don't like the move but I'm going with the rest of gophernation and supporting kill fml I'm nervous for our future
 

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