Phil Nelson

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mkAz

mkAz

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Would it be crazy to pull Phil Nelson's redshirt? I don't think Shortell is the long term answer, who knows when Gray will be at full strength. There's still 6 (maybe 7) games left, why not throw him out there, let him play the rest of the way, let him get his feet wet, let him hit the floor running towards next season? Just throwing it out there.
 

I say do NOT pull it. We are what we are so far, and that is the way we will be this year. Ya don't build a building by putting the roof on first.
 

Not worth it to pull the redshirt off now. I'd rather Nelson get a full season with "pre-season" games against the scrubs Kill will schedule for us. I don't think at this point he would be that much of an improvement over Shortell.
 

I say let's do it. If the kid is half as good as advertised and better than Shortell there is nothing to lose. Had we connected on throws to DCT in the Iowa game and Engel and/or Fruechte in the NW game we could easily be 5-1 or do I dare even 6-0 now. The strength of this team is the WR's and TE, we need to capitalize on that now while we have it. Get Nelson some experience and if Streveler pans out we can red shirt him next year and have a good succession plan for the future. Do you think Nelson would like his first game to be against the Badgers, I'd imagine he'd be sky high and have something to play for. Plus Kill likes to talk about how young we are anyway.
 

Dumbest thing we could do 6 months in is pull his redshirt unless we were in the running forte national title. Since we are not, just the idea of pulling the redshirt is stupid
 



With the current disarray in the O-Line, no way, the Offense's problems are deeper than the QB position.
 

DO NOT PULL THAT REDSHIRT. We're trying to build something here, and he was originally redshirted for a reason - he is the future of this program. He'll get his chance to compete for the starting job in 2013.

An 18-year old kid, who hasn't taken a snap in a live collegiate game, is not going to be significantly better than Shortell or MG, or any combination therein. Especially with a dinged up line in front of him.
 

This has to be a joke right? We are just missing the humor or you are trying to get people riled up. This team has far more issues than just the starting QB but you would propose taking a true freshman that has never taken a college snap in an actual game and tossing him out there on the road at Camp Randall. Wish I could remember the last time we started a true freshman QB in a hostile environment....anyone with a better memory than me remember....all I see is Maize and Blue cloud when I try to see the details....
 



if you pull his RS, you are potentially going to wreck him for his entire career. Freshman who get crushed and thrown to the dogs often times lose confidence. Plus we are seekin to build something for the future and he figures to be a big part of that. Theres not any benefit to starting him this year as we don't even know for a fact that he's going to have the ability to beat Shortell out next year. Let him learn the system fully and then have 4 years of eligibility to destroy fools!
 

Are you kidding? We will need him as a senior in four more years when we have to face the football powerhouse Central Southwest by Northeast Middle Michigan at Ohio Bible and autotechnical College. Assuming we don't back out of this match-up. They are tough SOB's.
 

beavergopher said:
Are you kidding? We will need him as a senior in four more years when we have to face the football powerhouse Central Southwest by Northeast Middle Michigan at Ohio Bible and autotechnical College. Assuming we don't back out of this match-up. They are tough SOB's.
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I think you mean 2016 when he would be a fifth-year senior. He will have to manage road games at Iowa, at Nebraska, at Ohio State and at Wisconsin. Yep, sisters of the poor.
 

This post has got to be a joke. No way is he ready. I've been to practices and it's not even close yet. He'll be fantastic when he's ready, but come on.
 



Triple D said:
I say let's do it. If the kid is half as good as advertised and better than Shortell there is nothing to lose. Had we connected on throws to DCT in the Iowa game and Engel and/or Fruechte in the NW game we could easily be 5-1 or do I dare even 6-0 now. The strength of this team is the WR's and TE, we need to capitalize on that now while we have it. Get Nelson some experience and if Streveler pans out we can red shirt him next year and have a good succession plan for the future. Do you think Nelson would like his first game to be against the Badgers, I'd imagine he'd be sky high and have something to play for. Plus Kill likes to talk about how young we are anyway.
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What if he isn't? I've got to believe the coaches who see him every day would know a lot more than any of us.
 

GophersInIowa said:
What if he isn't? I've got to believe the coaches who see him every day would know a lot more than any of us.
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Have you been reading the meltdown on the board today? We know better than the coaches.
 

mkAz said:
Would it be crazy to pull Phil Nelson's redshirt? I don't think Shortell is the long term answer, who knows when Gray will be at full strength. There's still 6 (maybe 7) games left, why not throw him out there, let him play the rest of the way, let him get his feet wet, let him hit the floor running towards next season? Just throwing it out there.
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I'm going to be in the minority here, but I am actually not against it. I'd love to redshirt him as much as anyone, but with the way the season is going I wouldn't be against playing him. We have six games left - that is a lot of the season. He has already been through a spring ball and fall camp. I'm guessing he is ready. If you keep playing for the future, we are never going to get there. The most important game is this Saturday vs. Wisconsin. After this week, the most important game is vs. Purdue. What if he gets hurt his senior year like Gray? It then doesn't matter that he redshirted this year.

With that being said, I hope we don't burn his redshirt. Although, I wouldn't be totally against as much as I was 1 month ago. In my opinion, Shortell is not a good QB at all. Gray is going to be in and out of games the rest of the year. He has a bad ankle/knee that is never going to fully heal this fall.
 

I say no

he will win more games for you in his 5th year than he will for you as a true freshman. Take your time, take the steps to be better down the line, you may burn his RS and he may struggle lose his confidence and potentially never exceed expectations.
 

The decision is easy: who gives the team the best chance to win on Saturday? That's the QB who should be playing.
 

Let's wait until we go to Lincoln, then let Nelson's first game as a true freshman be in one of the most intense atmospheres in all of college football.

Surely that's a better way to indoctrinate an 18-year-old QB than something like a balmy Thursday evening in front of hometown fans and a cupcake opponent.
 

Pulling off Nelson's RS for any reason short of injury to MG or Shortell would be foolish at this stage in the season. I do not however believe in the "wreck a QBs career" if you bring him in when he's young. People react differently to getting thrown into the fire and frankly we don't know how Nelson would respond. All that is immaterial though because this team is hardly one piece(QB) away from being competitive weekly, and so there really isn't a point to wasting a year of eligibility. The run defense hasn't played like they should, the linebackers aren't up to par, and while the secondary has been promising they have been inconsistent.

Also the WR play has hardly been good this year, I haven't been impressed with Fruechte, and Barker isn't a WR1 or WR2 on a good B1G team. The development of play-making receivers is going to make a difference for this squad in the future. McDonald and Harbison and guys like DCT are going to have to step up and keep getting better for this team to craft a consistent down field passing threat. The QB that connects the best with those guys and develops that chemistry the quickest and the strongest will be our guy going into next season.
 

I thought about this the other day. I would only do it if injury forced my hand, but last week Kill pulled the shirt off of two guys and the year before I think Thompson didn't get out there until about mid season too. Either way, Nelson has a say in it and I believe his father said he wanted to redshirt unless he was the starter. So I guess if Kill said you're the starter the rest of the way it could happen. It would be awesome to see him start this Saturday and win the game for us. That said, I say ride Shortell until Gray is healthy enough to take over again.
 

The situation with Nelson is the same as it was on day one. He won't see the field this year unless the guys in front of him are both hurt or if the coaches hit a point in practices where the guys in front of him are playing so bad and he is palying so well that they just can't keep him on the bench any longer. The injury thing could happen the play one is highly unlikely.

We are talking about a true freshman at the toughest position on the field. It would crush a lot of people on GopherHole if their Golden Boy came in and struggled off the bat. Best thing for Nelson was and still is to ride the bench this year.
 

MNVCGUY said:
The situation with Nelson is the same as it was on day one. He won't see the field this year unless the guys in front of him are both hurt or if the coaches hit a point in practices where the guys in front of him are playing so bad and he is palying so well that they just can't keep him on the bench any longer. The injury thing could happen the play one is highly unlikely.

We are talking about a true freshman at the toughest position on the field. It would crush a lot of people on GopherHole if their Golden Boy came in and struggled off the bat. Best thing for Nelson was and still is to ride the bench this year.
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No it would not, MNV. All they would do is say "bench Nelson and give Leidner the reigns."

Never underestimate the abilities of these "fans" who talk a lot but never say anything.
 

The extra year Nelson would gain with the Redshirt gives the coaches a better chance to not only develop him into a solid QB that can compete for the starting job next year, and presumably earn the spot outright the following, it also allows the coaches to find the next QB and develop the depth at that position. Burning the RS would put our team in a position where 4 years from now, we will have young QB's behind Nelson who would need to step into that role due to injury or game time situations.

Actually being able to develop QB's in a system is something that builds the foundation of a football team. The exceptions are the freaks of nature like Denard Robinson, or Braxton Miller (although Pryor just bolted after OSU got hit by sanctions). Rich Rod even said, "Robinson is too good to redshirt" and it has mostly worked out for Michigan. Minnesota isn't attracting freaks of nature at the moment. Just really capable players.

Plus, what happens if you burn the RS when you absolutely don't need to and he get injured, or a concussion, and never fully recovers this year or going into next year? You then would have shot your plan of developing depth in the foot and probably set the offense back a year or two at the QB position. MS and MG have proven they can be product at times in a tandem or on their own. If we can figure out how to consistently finish drives than the end of the season may look similar to what we saw offensively in last few games in the season a year ago.
 

if i'm nelson, theres no way in heck i'd even WANT to start when i am looking at potentially 4 years as a starter in a system i fit pretty well with a team that's potentially going to get much better. Then he gets to be the face of this team. If he goes out and gets wrecked at the end of this season, then people are going to be doubting him before he even gets going.
 

So Phil is the new savior of Minnesota football? Lots of guys have had that honor, and fallen short. AAK. Dominique Sims. Marquise Gray. Brewster. Weber. Thomas Tapeh. Shortell (after he played well early last season). How about naming someone savior AFTER something is earned? It will ease the pain if (should say, when) things don't pan out.
 

Dr. Axe said:
So Phil is the new savior of Minnesota football? Lots of guys have had that honor, and fallen short. AAK. Dominique Sims. Marquise Gray. Brewster. Weber. Thomas Tapeh. Shortell (after he played well early last season). How about naming someone savior AFTER something is earned? It will ease the pain if (should say, when) things don't pan out.
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That is far too logical. Far better to assume a kid who we have never seen in a college game could walk in and be the starter right now. It is what fans do, reality has nothing to do with it.
 

Fact - Gray's ankle will not be fully healed between now and any time before the end of the season. He not only has a high ankle sprain but now he has a low ankle sprain. Therefore we cannot count on Gray to play meaningful time for the rest of the year given this type of re-ocurring injury. If he does play there is an incredibly high percentage of chance that he gets reinjured and has to leave the game. Too bad because we need him and he is our team leader.

Fact- Shortell is not improving as a starting QB even though he's had 3 full games and the vast majority of practice reps. You can either do it on game day or you can't.

Fact- Gray probably won't play this week, and Nelson will be the back-up. Shortell was dinged in the NW game, there is a pretty good chance we may end up burning Nelson's redshirt due to injury anyway, see Gray, re-ocurring injury and not 100% for the rest of the year.

This team started out 4-0, we are now 4-2 and are losing any momentum we had for a shot at a bowl game. With the North Carolina PR nightmare we are now in, and going into Wisconsin where there is a pretty good chance we will get annihilated, this team needs a spark and something that will show people that there is hope for the future.

These are the reasons that I think we need to use Nelson, wish things didn't pan out this way but you have to play the cards you are dealt. No one wanted Gray to get hurt but it happened and there is nothing we can do about it now and if we want to have any shot at a meaningful season to get to a bowl game and to attract a better class of recruits for next year we need to seriously consider using Nelson. If Nelson plays great he may turn some heads and people might want to think about playing here. If he doesn't play, there is a pretty good chance we finish out 4-8, maybe 5-7, and that isn't going to create any kind of excitement.
 

Triple D said:
This team started out 4-0, we are now 4-2 and are losing any momentum we had for a shot at a bowl game. With the North Carolina PR nightmare we are now in, and going into Wisconsin where there is a pretty good chance we will get annihilated, this team needs a spark and something that will show people that there is hope for the future.
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So what happens when you bench Shortell and Nelson comes in and plays like a true freshman going against players that are bigger, faster, and better coached than anything he has ever faced? The picture you painted sounds great if Nelson is one of the rare players that can transition straight to college stardom at the QB position out of high school. Those guys are not very common and it is not like Nelson was a can't miss 5* blue chip prospect. He was a very nice looking QB from the state of MN who has gone up against a handful of D1 players over the course of his entire career. He is far from a sure thing.
 

There is no need for a debate on this topic ad nauseam.

As usual we will continue to debate this topic ad nauseam when the answer to the question whether Nelson will/should play couldn't be clearer. Kill has stated that Nelson is the third string quarter back and it would be necessary to play him if both Gray and Shortell can't play. If some of you still think you get to vote on this you will need to wait until November 6th when you can write in your choice at that time.
 

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