Payne in portal (UPDATED: Payne commits to Texas A&M)

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Off-GridTNgopher said:
If this team was winning... N.I.L. wouldn't be an issue. Bring in a proven coach, start winning, the $$ will come
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Bringing in a proven coach is going to be difficult without the NIL money also. They kinda go hand in hand.

I also have my doubts this market will ever be able to compete with NIL money. Wisconsin has had more success, so has Iowa. But struggle with NIL also.
 

Off-GridTNgopher said:
If this team was winning... N.I.L. wouldn't be an issue. Bring in a proven coach, start winning, the $$ will come
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Sadly, this is just not true. Minnesotans are just wired to get into bidding wars to pay amateur college athletes to play for their home university. The U could hire your dream coach and the NIL will increase slightly but not enough to prevent poaching from rabid fan billionaires supporting programs like Miami.

NIL isn't built on the backs of the little donors. Have you made your donation? 3 figures or 4? That small stuff isn't going to cut it- we need donors willing to throw 7 figures around like pocket change.
 

Dave H said:
How would suggest the AD "convince" big money donors to donate? Let's assume there are some and they are interested, how is Coyle going to get them to do so when they wouldn't before. It isn't like we can offer them anything of value they have to want to give money...and they never have.

I would agree with you if we were a team that had success and we were still falling behind. But they can barely convince me to give NIL money because of how little faith I have in the team and college sports in general...why would some big wig who probably never steps foot on campus care?

Sorry you can blame Coyle and Company for a lot...but I am not sure this is one. Unless the pitch is "throw in some money and we will can Ben" they really can't barter much.
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I would get the big hitters one at a time (and there are some in town who love Gopher basketball - a few of them would spend more on a couple chandeliers than it would take to pay Payne) and ask them what it would take. If they say it would take a new coach- then that's what you do. Or maybe one of them wants to be the hero and save the day... You have to do it. They (Dinkytown) had a $5000 per plate dinner a few weeks ago- I am not sure what they got.....
 

short ornery norwegian said:
saw this in another thread - a post from Ryan James (can't copy it to here)

talking about the Carrington decision, James said (quoting)

This one was the wildest of all when I learned. Braeden thinks he should be making way more NIL money and that is the front of this, plus he thinks he should be getting more opportunity. Braeden, JOJ and Pharrel have basically become a group of three that have been talking for a long time about not getting what they have earned.

so it sounds like a group decision. really sad IF some disgruntled players are convincing other guys to jump the ship with them.

but if players are going to say - give me more money and more playing time or I leave - then a coach is really in a bad place.
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Your last paragraph is basically exactly what Saban said about the players at Alabama when he retired.
 
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End of the year team meeting must have happened last night! 3 in so far and we will see what else happens.
 


ecoperson said:
Sadly, this is just not true. Minnesotans are just wired to get into bidding wars to pay amateur college athletes to play for their home university. The U could hire your dream coach and the NIL will increase slightly but not enough to prevent poaching from rabid fan billionaires supporting programs like Miami.

NIL isn't built on the backs of the little donors. Have you made your donation? 3 figures or 4? That small stuff isn't going to cut it- we need donors willing to throw 7 figures around like pocket change.
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I used to think this way, but I've started to come around to a different opinion. We don't have a Knight or Ruiz or Pickens that will casually toss billions at NIL. We don't have a Ryan family like NW, or the couple that is building UST a new arena in St. Paul.

But most programs don't have those whales either.

I think Minnesota is middle of the pack in terms of NIL. We've literally lost ONE really good player in football to NIL and that was Bucky Irving. All the rest of the good players have been retained. That made me think that the U isn't really that far off the mark and that players are happy here.

Basketball is different because of the nature of the game and the rosters, but guys will stay if they are happy here and are getting a fair NIL deal. So you have to ask the question, why are they not happy here? I've gone back and forth on my opinion about CBJ, but the question stands.
 


Follow the money. That’s what this is…. IF as stated above JOJ and Carrington left because they weren’t taking in enough NIL, and dragged Payne with them, no other coach could have changed that. Delusional is still delusional. JOJ and Carrington were bit players, and they won’t find the grass much greener somewhere else. (See Henley) Payne hurt. He was only going to get better, and his type of motor is not easily replaced.

Speaking of delusional? The Ben Haters Fan Club. If you seriously think anyone is going to come in here and magically change this around, in this NIL mess you are wrong. There’s no magic bullet here. The U of M has never ever placed the emphasis on athletics some other schools have. They (we) look at ourselves as above the trivial pursuit of athletics. They don’t pay big bucks for coaches, and have drug their feet for years on facilities. Even the football field recently built wouldn’t hold half a MI or Ohio St crowd. And while we afford PJ with praise for the relative progress he has achieved, in most Blue Blood programs he would have already been gone!

You can replace Ben, with let’s say "Bob", but then you would have to become the Bob Haters Fan Club, followed by the Dave Haters Fan Club, etc. You get the drill. NIL and consolidation is changing, and ruining, college athletics as we know it. Blaming it on BJ is the easy way out. Accepting the fact that MN citizens, and the local corporations, and the U, have no interest in seriously competing is probably more realistic.

I don’t say this lightly, I have been a Gopher fan for years. While I followed all sports, BB, men and women’s, is my favorite. It’s sad to see things headed this way, but the bottom line is an uneven playing field has only gotten more uneven in the current environment!
 

Why even offer scholarships anymore? There’s zero value in it in the players eyes. Use that scholarship money for NIL, have the players sign contacts 1, 2, -4years. Here is your salary, here’s your bonus incentives. If you want to leave the team then the school your transferring to has to buy out your contact. It’s dumb but if these kids want to treat it like a business then make it a business.
 



leib0039 said:
So CBJ supporters.....how we feeling ?

CBJ disaster thread about to fire up
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If anything I am on the other side as I didn't like the hire and haven't been real impressed with what I have seen.

But it is stupid when his supporters would post stuff like this when we won some games and it is stupid when the detractors do it now.
 

Gopheritnow said:
Follow the money. That’s what this is…. IF as stated above JOJ and Carrington left because they weren’t taking in enough NIL, and dragged Payne with them, no other coach could have changed that. Delusional is still delusional. JOJ and Carrington were bit players, and they won’t find the grass much greener somewhere else. (See Henley) Payne hurt. He was only going to get better, and his type of motor is not easily replaced.

Speaking of delusional? The Ben Haters Fan Club. If you seriously think anyone is going to come in here and magically change this around, in this NIL mess you are wrong. There’s no magic bullet here. The U of M has never ever placed the emphasis on athletics some other schools have. They (we) look at ourselves as above the trivial pursuit of athletics. They don’t pay big bucks for coaches, and have drug their feet for years on facilities. Even the football field recently built wouldn’t hold half a MI or Ohio St crowd. And while we afford PJ with praise for the relative progress he has achieved, in most Blue Blood programs he would have already been gone!

You can replace Ben, with let’s say "Bob", but then you would have to become the Bob Haters Fan Club, followed by the Dave Haters Fan Club, etc. You get the drill. NIL and consolidation is changing, and ruining, college athletics as we know it. Blaming it on BJ is the easy way out. Accepting the fact that MN citizens, and the local corporations, and the U, have no interest in seriously competing is probably more realistic.

I don’t say this lightly, I have been a Gopher fan for years. While I followed all sports, BB, men and women’s, is my favorite. It’s sad to see things headed this way, but the bottom line is an uneven playing field has only gotten more uneven in the current environment!
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Speaking of...
 

bga1 said:
This day has been coming for a year. Everyone knew that we would need to pay these guys to keep them a year ago. I heard the coach say it. The fact that the administration is not prepared to compete (so it appears) by talking to their big donors about this and convincing them- is just insane. Here we are. They hired an inexperienced, learn on the job coach and they failed to give him the support needed. That's massive malpractice.
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It is malpractice. Some folks here have been crucified when they suggest Coyle and administration is the real issue.
 




bga1 said:
Coyle and the administration got way behind on this and have no clue how to raise money for it. Worthless.
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Yet the football team seems to be getting by just fine.

When you have a competent coach, suddenly a lot of these problems go away.

When you have a worthless coach like BJ, it's always someone else's fault....
 

My probably unpopular opinion is that I don't mind the transfer portal and I don't mind the idea of NIL. I think the portal adds a little excitement to things. What I do think is there should be an NIL cap. If every place were able to offer the same amount to each of these transfers, there would probably be fewer transfers. For example, if the max was $250,000 and that's what Payne was getting here, would he still be looking somewhere else? Maybe, but less likely IMO.
 

Dave H said:
How would suggest the AD "convince" big money donors to donate? Let's assume there are some and they are interested, how is Coyle going to get them to do so when they wouldn't before. It isn't like we can offer them anything of value they have to want to give money...and they never have.

I would agree with you if we were a team that had success and we were still falling behind. But they can barely convince me to give NIL money because of how little faith I have in the team and college sports in general...why would some big wig who probably never steps foot on campus care?

Sorry you can blame Coyle and Company for a lot...but I am not sure this is one those things. Unless the pitch is "throw in some money and we will can Ben" they really can't barter much.
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Doesn't have to be only the very wealthy. It is Coyle's JOB to do it. Salesmanship.
 

GopherJake said:
The no-sit transfer rule is the worst thing to ever happen to college sports. Worse than NIL. Worse than mega-conferences. And why? Why was this rule dropped??? This is going to erode fan bases all over the country and the eyeballs and $$ are going to drop. It’s idiotic.
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Yup. It's a really bad development that is going to damage the sport irreparably if something isn't done soon.

Really surprised that Payne has entered the portal. Hopefully cooler heads prevail and he (as well as Carrington and JOJ) decides to stay. But Payne is one of the guys that Ben couldn't really afford to lose. Sure.....if he brings back Garcia and Christie doesn't get bought.....maybe there's a way around this....but there was a lot riding on developing last year's high school class and they all might be gone right when things were starting to look up.

I'm not going to pass judgement without knowing more. I have no idea what NIL looks like for these guys here.....or at another school. I really hope that Payne and the rest of the guys have thought this through however. They aren't just bailing on teammates like Hawkins and Mitchell who used their free transfer to come to Minnesota....they are quite possibly signing the death warrant for their coach. Again.....maybe their potential NIL here really is a pittance compared to what another team may offer. Hard to fault someone for making money where they can.
 

GopherJake said:
The no-sit transfer rule is the worst thing to ever happen to college sports. Worse than NIL. Worse than mega-conferences. And why? Why was this rule dropped??? This is going to erode fan bases all over the country and the eyeballs and $$ are going to drop. It’s idiotic.
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What you're looking for is the right balance of stability and flexibility. The previous rule was arguably too inflexible. The current state of chaos is too unstable. They need to admit that and continue to seek the right balance. They fail to act at the sport's peril.
 

disco said:
I used to think this way, but I've started to come around to a different opinion. We don't have a Knight or Ruiz or Pickens that will casually toss billions at NIL. We don't have a Ryan family like NW, or the couple that is building UST a new arena in St. Paul.

But most programs don't have those whales either.

I think Minnesota is middle of the pack in terms of NIL. We've literally lost ONE really good player in football to NIL and that was Bucky Irving. All the rest of the good players have been retained. That made me think that the U isn't really that far off the mark and that players are happy here.

Basketball is different because of the nature of the game and the rosters, but guys will stay if they are happy here and are getting a fair NIL deal. So you have to ask the question, why are they not happy here? I've gone back and forth on my opinion about CBJ, but the question stands.
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Excellent post.

I think basketball players can be more mercenary oriented due to the AAU BS.

It’s not unusual for players to move teams for better opportunities and then you also have the coaches and their influence; none of the in football.
 

JOJ, Ihnen, Carrington were not surprising but Payne ? Now who do we keep of Garcia, Christie, Mitchell n Hawkins ??
 



Ski-U-Ham said:
My probably unpopular opinion is that I don't mind the transfer portal and I don't mind the idea of NIL. I think the portal adds a little excitement to things.
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I actually agree with you to some extent. I'm far more attentive in the offseason than I used to be. Certainly, last year's offseason was more exciting than what was happening on the court during the season.

Ski-U-Ham said:
What I do think is there should be an NIL cap. If every place were able to offer the same amount to each of these transfers, there would probably be fewer transfers. For example, if the max was $250,000 and that's what Payne was getting here, would he still be looking somewhere else? Maybe, but less likely IMO.
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That's not a bad idea but my guess is that would be struck down by the courts. Again, as someone mentioned, you would probably need collective bargaining for something like that to be sustained.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Yet the football team seems to be getting by just fine.

When you have a competent coach, suddenly a lot of these problems go away.

When you have a worthless coach like BJ, it's always someone else's fault....
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This is what doesn't make sense. I'm sure we're far from the top, but how are we doing decently in NIL for football and have basically nothing for basketball. I don't buy that.
 


I am sure there are 10000 legal issues here but this has to end with contracts right? You cant say how much a kid can make sure, but you can hold them to something. Say you want a kid with 1 year left, cool 1 year deal. Maybe you get a freshman in and you say sure we are fine giving you $500k in NIL, but that comes with a 4 year contract that says you cant leave, or if you do then like coaches there is a buyout. So if a kid is truly just unhappy or something changes fine, but they also cant have their cake and eat it too. I bet a kid who would have to pay back say 80% of their NIL stuff they already made would have to think twice about leaving. And sure big time $$ schools would still step in and pay for those for the kid, but at least then that NIL group would get something back to use to fill that spot. I get the general idea, I just hate that 1. it is EVERY YEAR its just unlimited FA, thats dumb and 2. Tampering is 100% a thing, you dont think someone already told PP what he could get? that is bad, there needs to be a way to stop that Which again I would say would be helped by contracts.
TwistingMyMelon said:
I actually agree with you to some extent. I'm far more attentive in the offseason than I used to be. Certainly, last year's offseason was more exciting than what was happening on the court during the season.



That's not a bad idea but my guess is that would be struck down by the courts. Again, as someone mentioned, you would probably need collective bargaining for something like that to be sustained.
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disco said:
Basketball is different because of the nature of the game and the rosters, but guys will stay if they are happy here and are getting a fair NIL deal. So you have to ask the question, why are they not happy here? I've gone back and forth on my opinion about CBJ, but the question stands.
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For all we know, Payne knows that other guys are leaving and that is why he pulled the trigger instead of staying. Nothing with BJ.
 


leib0039 said:
So CBJ supporters.....how we feeling ?

CBJ disaster thread about to fire up
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I am not a CBJ supporter, but this is just further evidence that the slow rebuild is not a possibility. Personally, I never believed that was CBJ's plan, but his defenders would just argue that he was "doing it the right way".

That said, what do you do? The entire system is broke and even when you try to do things the right way (how CBJ treated Carrington), it backfires. I can think of a ton of stuff to blame on Ben, but this entire system is a dumpster fire.

I'm not in the camp of blowing it up and starting over, but I'm just getting increasingly less interested in college basketball.
 

GringaGopher said:
JOJ, Ihnen, Carrington were not surprising but Payne ? Now who do we keep of Garcia, Christie, Mitchell n Hawkins ??
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JOJ, Carrington, and Payne were all in the same recruiting class. No idea of how tight they were but it's not inconceivable they fed off each other starting with JOJ's lack of playing time. All three certainly could have had complaints about how they were used. Will be interesting to see if there is anyone else. Being a fan since the 60's I'm kind of assuming the worse.
 

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