PA today - 8/19/10 9:35 AM

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josh087 said:
Fair point - although he is on the air significantly less than Gaard.
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True. And Gaard will say whatever he thinks will get him brownie points with Barriero. Not to mention Gaard usually just says annoying little one worders in. Maybe because Barriero cant shut up for two seconds.
 

josh087 said:
Why do people rip on Gaard for his love of Iowa? The man went to, and graduated from the University. He has the right, and understandably roots for his college of choice. I have no problem with it.

What needs to happen around here is the same thing that happens at Universities like Iowa - people developing an affinity for the University and its sports teams. By and large that doesn't happen at the U of M.
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Because there should be "no cheering in the press box". Now I get that the show is talk radio, seemingly exempt from the general rules of journalism, but so you think Vikes fans would care if someone born and raised in Chicago said on the Vikes pre-game show that he was wearing a Bears t-shirt? That would never fly, and the only reason why no one cares is because the Gophs aren't the big ticket in town.

I live in LA, the ESPN station here is the "home of the Trojans". One of the guys with a PA type show, John Ireland, is a UCLA grad, and I have never ever heard him say he is cheering for UCLA when they talk either Trojan or Bruin football.
 

DLguy said:
Not sure this is true. One of the personalities at KFAN is that Sinikin guy. He is a Packer fan like non other, and this is a hardcore Vikings town. I am sure he still has a job and people arent calling for his head.
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Sinikin is an interesting example. I think he might sum up what many of us are hoping for from the Minnesota media. It's asking too much for the media to be Gopher homers. And, in fact, I don't want the media shilling for the home team and ignoring their warts any more than I want them ridiculing the teams for no reason.

But here's Sinikin, a guy who is an over the top Packer and Badger fan, and I love him on KFAN. He talks intelligently about the Gophers (and Vikings and Wolves), just as he does about his favorite teams. He doesn't rip. He can make the point that his teams are better than ours without ridicule. He's also capable of admitting when ours are better. But for the most part, he knows what he's talking about.

PA and Barriero don't have to like the Gophers. Just be informed and respect the teams' fans.
 

Chris from Brooklyn Park, aka Sportsfan24, aka Kim's banker

Fellow's

Here's the deal. I'm also critical of KFAN and the lack of knowledge shown by some (all) of the on air personality. However, we must CALL the shows when they talk about gopher sports. If the supposed fans don't show an interest they will not bother to become informed about the team.

I know it shouldn't be this way but it is. We don't have to argue with them or call them names. Just call and state your well informed opinion.

When I called today I didn't try to show PA up. I did throw in a small playful dig about "those who follow gophers understand why the team will be better than those who don't). PA in turn threw in a playful dig my way when it became obvious that a parent of a gopher captain (this one anyway) was never going to pick against the gophers (even if it was against the championship New England Patriot team). I figured if they could be silly and pick the gophers to loose to South Dakota I would be equally silly and pick the gophers to win every game (lol).

Point is let's show there are listeners who care about the gophers. We can complain but don't let that be all we do. If fans of the team can't call and show an interest, we shouldn't expect guys who aren't fans to change their stripes. Even if they get paid to report on sports (which is quite sad).

I will let you guys in on a secret it becomes quickly apparent to Minnesota Highschool football elite and their parents when they go through the recruitment process that in general, Mn fans are severly lacking in comparison to the Wisconsin, Iowa, Nebraska, Ohio State, Penn State and any other fans of successful programs. This a HUGE determing factor when it comes to choosing a school. Now I realize an argument can be made that those programs are more successful that's why those fans are so supportive. To that I will offer up an analogy:

I man walking comes to a busy interesection and the light is green, sure he can cross without looking because he has the right-of-way but he should still stop and look first. You don't want them to put on your headstone "he had the green light." My point? As fans if we want the gophers to be successful we as fans must stop sitting around waiting for others to do the "correct" thing. IE waiting for recruits to forego greener pastures, sports show hosts to show the gophers love and for the gophers to compete for a big ten title before we are willing to go the extra mile in showing our support. If we as fans step up, the road to success will be easier and happen sooner.
 

I think so many people have listened to people call in to want to talk about the Gophers only to have the called mocked and ridiculed for wanting to talk about the Gophers, that many of them don't bother calling. You just don't get informed opinion there, just ignorant smack.
 


Kim's banker :) you are right on about us needing to step up. I wrote in to Phil Miller to tell him thanks and to keep up the good work and said there are more Gopher fans out there than people think. We just aren't as vocal or frontal as the fans of the team in purple. That needs to change and it starts with us here on the Hole...the ones who have taken a very serious and vested interest in this program. Preach the gospel of Gopher football.

Ski-U-Mah
 

I listen to Sid Sunday morning on my way back from watching the Gophers after a stay over. On a given Sunday, its safe to assume close to 3/4 of the calls are Gopher football related; good, bad or something in between. If the Vikings played the day B4 rather than the Gophers, the tables would likely be reversed.

My point is, give the Gopher fans an ear and they will call. Same with WCCO and the post game show with Steve Thompson. There are lots of calls as I listen on my way home.

If PA truly wants to stand by the Gophers and learn more, maybe he should consider hosting a Gopher football only hour a day or so a week during the season. That is, if his boss allows that. In the meantime, it sounds as if he is not committed and is just give lip service.
 

Sportsfan24 said:
I will let you guys in on a secret it becomes quickly apparent to Minnesota Highschool football elite and their parents when they go through the recruitment process that in general, Mn fans are severly lacking in comparison to the Wisconsin, Iowa, Nebraska, Ohio State, Penn State and any other fans of successful programs. This a HUGE determing factor when it comes to choosing a school.
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That's not a secret at all - this is the main point I've been trying to make for years on this site regarding the Vikings. People in this town love the Vikings so much that the Gophers are an afterthought. The Vikings need to go. Northwestern proved it is possible to have some seasons of success despite no fans, but have also proved it gets you no more fans than you had before. To have passionate fans you either need to win BIG every year, or be the destination in town for sports. If you have fans it helps to keep the 4* and 5* guys we are losing to other programs here. It is possible to go to the Rose Bowl with the Vikings in town with a flash-in-the-pan type of year, but to really become one of the powerhouses in college football you need the fans, which will never happen with the Vikings in town.
 

M
Bisker82 said:
That's just a plain idiotic statement. This site wouldn't exist if people didn't care about the Gophers in MN.
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Blanket statement, maybe. Idiotic? No. Living in a college football state I can tell you there is a genuine disconnect between the community, media, and the U. Down here u may hear analysis of the hometeam that's not positive but you still get the overall sense that they r still rooting for the team. Up there, it seems as if ignorantly trashtalking the gophers is cool. If their were enough die hard fans like us Gopherholers the media would would have lose the audience for coverage like that. Until the culture changes or the Vikings leave we are stuck with the media bile we have now
 



josh087 said:
That's not a secret at all - this is the main point I've been trying to make for years on this site regarding the Vikings. People in this town love the Vikings so much that the Gophers are an afterthought. The Vikings need to go. Northwestern proved it is possible to have some seasons of success despite no fans, but have also proved it gets you no more fans than you had before. To have passionate fans you either need to win BIG every year, or be the destination in town for sports. If you have fans it helps to keep the 4* and 5* guys we are losing to other programs here. It is possible to go to the Rose Bowl with the Vikings in town with a flash-in-the-pan type of year, but to really become one of the powerhouses in college football you need the fans, which will never happen with the Vikings in town.
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In all probability, the Vikes aren't going anywhere. I guess we're doomed.

Conversely, we can get incrementally better each year through consistency of system, build upon the success of prior years and progressively get better higher-end recruits who fit the system. Moving off of campus to the Dome and having won nothing of substance for 40 years are the two principal factors behind the apathy. The Vikings are a distant third.
 

minibeaver said:
M

Blanket statement, maybe. Idiotic? No. Living in a college football state I can tell you there is a genuine disconnect between the community, media, and the U. Down here u may hear analysis of the hometeam that's not positive but you still get the overall sense that they r still rooting for the team. Up there, it seems as if ignorantly trashtalking the gophers is cool. If their were enough die hard fans like us Gopherholers the media would would have lose the audience for coverage like that. Until the culture changes or the Vikings leave we are stuck with the media bile we have now
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Sadly, except maybe the Vikings leaving, this seems right. The exception of course, would be the big season, something that flamed-out on a Friday night in 2003 in front of 62,374 fans nearly all of which were cheering for the Gophers.
 

Sisyphus said:
In all probability, the Vikes aren't going anywhere. I guess we're doomed.

Conversely, we can get incrementally better each year through consistency of system, build upon the success of prior years and progressively get better higher-end recruits who fit the system. Moving off of campus to the Dome and having won nothing of substance for 40 years are the two principal factors behind the apathy. The Vikings are a distant third.
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1) The Vikings are the main cause that moved the Gophers from Memorial Stadium to the Dome in the first place.
2) The fact that the instant the Vikings arrived in Minnesota marked the exact time in which the Gophers stopped winning is far more than mere coincidence, or some "distant" link between the two.
 

Iceland12 said:
Sadly, except maybe the Vikings leaving, this seems right. The exception of course, would be the big season, something that flamed-out on a Friday night in 2003 in front of 62,374 fans nearly all of which were cheering for the Gophers.
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The problem with this is that the fans will only show up for the one big season, and in the case of 2003, would have meant only a handful of home games even if they had won that game.

As soon as they stop winning 90% of their games, no more fans. That is a guarantee, and not only does the Michigan State 10/17/2003 attendance prove it, but Northwestern's 1995 season, the spike in fans during that season only (and perhaps some of 1996) but subsequent dropoff also further the argument.
 



josh087 said:
That's not a secret at all - this is the main point I've been trying to make for years on this site regarding the Vikings. People in this town love the Vikings so much that the Gophers are an afterthought. The Vikings need to go. Northwestern proved it is possible to have some seasons of success despite no fans, but have also proved it gets you no more fans than you had before. To have passionate fans you either need to win BIG every year, or be the destination in town for sports. If you have fans it helps to keep the 4* and 5* guys we are losing to other programs here. It is possible to go to the Rose Bowl with the Vikings in town with a flash-in-the-pan type of year, but to really become one of the powerhouses in college football you need the fans, which will never happen with the Vikings in town.
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The Vikings aren't going anywhere. If they did leave, the state would move heaven and earth to get a new team here. The NFL is just a fact of life that we have to deal with. And besides, if they did move, gloating Gopher fans wouldn't exactly win over the unhappy Vikings fans. Northwestern doesn't attract fans because it isn't well connected to the city. Northwestern students come from all over the country, and then they go back home. There isn't a big loical alumni population to fill the seats.

We've heard the media claim that fandom for Gophers football is "miniscule" compared to Gophers hockey. I'm not bashing hockey in any way, but I ran some numbers. There were 21 home Gopher hockey games (counting the exhibition game). The hockey arena holds 10,000. That's 210,000 people max. There were seven home football games, at 50,000 per, that's 350,000. Even if we assumed that every hockey game was a sell out and there were no no shows (which isn't true), the football stadium would have to have only 30,000 people in it to equal the total number that were there for hockey. Plus there are 37 radio stations that carry Gophers football, and 25 that carry Gophers hockey. So, it is pretty ludicrous for the media to call the football fan base miniscule compared to hockey.

The negative coverage isn't because of the Vikings, it is because our media chooses to cover the media that way. And the audience simply doesn't realize that that it could be any better. It's like being used to a gas station burger never knowing that steaks existed.
 

josh087 said:
The problem with this is that the fans will only show up for the one big season, and in the case of 2003, would have meant only a handful of home games even if they had won that game.

As soon as they stop winning 90% of their games, no more fans. That is a guarantee, and not only does the Michigan State 10/17/2003 attendance prove it, but Northwestern's 1995 season, the spike in fans during that season only (and perhaps some of 1996) but subsequent dropoff also further the argument.
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While you've got some strong points Josh, that's just to cynical. Rodent R. covered the NW well and he touched on good points about radio coverage and football/hockey.

I disagree about the 90% wins after a big year. What they need is to stay a Big Ten contender after the big year. Gopher basketball is probably a better example. When they are Big Ten contenders people all over the state follow them. The Twins are also a good example of that.

Same thing with the football team. There's a huge well spring of support outstate for the Gophers. The problem, that's been discussed here before, is that after all the heart breakers at the Dome people will want to seem something great first to commit their heart (and soul) again.

Hence the huge come down against MSU. Only a bunch of hard core Gopher masochists went to that game after the way Mason and his guys "spit the bit" Friday night.
 

I think there are more Gopher fans out there than people realize. There in the outstate, watching on the BTN and listening to the games on the radio. But they think they are alone. Talk radio gives that impression, they treat talking about the Gophers as if it is some unreasonable imposition.
 

josh087 said:
2) The fact that the instant the Vikings arrived in Minnesota marked the exact time in which the Gophers stopped winning is far more than mere coincidence, or some "distant" link between the two.
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If you ask me, the Gophers going from good to bad had more to do with the establishment of the Peace Corps and the damn commies beating us in the race to space than the Vikings showing up. My dad said that as soon as Yuri Gagarin got back from orbit, he knew Gopher football was doomed.
 

RodentRampage said:
I think there are more Gopher fans out there than people realize. There in the outstate, watching on the BTN and listening to the games on the radio. But they think they are alone. Talk radio gives that impression, they treat talking about the Gophers as if it is some unreasonable imposition.
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While your point may be true - it is irrelevent in this discussion, so I don't know why people always bring up the "there are more fans out there than you think" argument.

We can all agree we want more fans. Since these outstate and silent Gopher fans are fans already, they aren't the ones the media is affecting. No matter what goes on in the media, these people are fans anyway.

We need MORE fans. People that don't CURRENTLY follow the Gophers. Because talk radio gives the impression the Gophers are irrelevent, because they are buried on C6 of the sports pages while the Vikings are on C1, and because they are the third or fourth story in the D block of the 10PM news with usually just a :30 VO/SOT, the people that don't follow the team - the exact people we need to attract - will continue to have the perception that the Gophers are irrelevent. So nothing will change.
 

josh087 said:
1) The Vikings are the main cause that moved the Gophers from Memorial Stadium to the Dome in the first place.
2) The fact that the instant the Vikings arrived in Minnesota marked the exact time in which the Gophers stopped winning is far more than mere coincidence, or some "distant" link between the two.
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What exactly is your evidence for either one, or preferably both of these points?
 

josh087 said:
While your point may be true - it is irrelevent in this discussion, so I don't know why people always bring up the "there are more fans out there than you think" argument.

We can all agree we want more fans. Since these outstate and silent Gopher fans are fans already, they aren't the ones the media is affecting. No matter what goes on in the media, these people are fans anyway.

We need MORE fans. People that don't CURRENTLY follow the Gophers. Because talk radio gives the impression the Gophers are irrelevent, because they are buried on C6 of the sports pages while the Vikings are on C1, and because they are the third or fourth story in the D block of the 10PM news with usually just a :30 VO/SOT, the people that don't follow the team - the exact people we need to attract - will continue to have the perception that the Gophers are irrelevent. So nothing will change.
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No, it is not irrelevant to this discussion. It's simply not what you want to discuss. There is a difference. It's at least as relevant as the continual "It's the Vikings fault! We're doomed!"
 

positively4thstreet said:
What exactly is your evidence for either one, or preferably both of these points?
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Vikings

- Bud Grant's First Year - 1967 Season

- First Division Title - 1968 Season

- First Super Bowl - 1969 Season

- Last Super Bowl - 1976 Season

Gophers

- Last Big 10 Championship - 1967

- The Gophers were a big deal in Minnesota during the 1960s with a National Championship, two Big 10 Championships, and two Rose Bowl appearances. By the time of the 4th Super Bowl in 1976 the Gophers football team had been all but eclipsed by the Vikings in the sports media and the public conciousness. I know because I was there. None of my friends and not one person that I have ever worked with has attended a Gopher football game since the 1970's. The Vikings are the only team that exists for them. The Gophers are for them to make jokes about and make fun of me for being a Gopher fan.

Move to Metro Dome (Wikipedia)

- Pressured by downtown Minneapolis business interests and athletic boosters the school elected to move out of the stadium to the new Metrodome during the spring of 1982. Athletic director Paul Giel cited the advantages of recruiting by playing in a new NFL venue. Also, the attendance was expected to go up in the late fall with protection from harsh weather. Memorial Stadium had been neglected by this time, and was badly in need of renovation. New coach Lou Holtz gave an impassioned speech when the time came in 1984 to decide whether to remain at the Metrodome, and declared that "athletes want to play at the Dome."
 

UpnorthGo4 said:
Vikings

- Bud Grant's First Year - 1967 Season

- First Division Title - 1968 Season

- First Super Bowl - 1969 Season

- Last Super Bowl - 1976 Season

Gophers

- Last Big 10 Championship - 1967

- The Gophers were a big deal in Minnesota during the 1960s with a National Championship, two Big 10 Championships, and two Rose Bowl appearances. By the time of the 4th Super Bowl in 1976 the Gophers football team had been all but eclipsed by the Vikings in the sports media and the public conciousness. I know because I was there. None of my friends and not one person that I have ever worked with has attended a Gopher football game since the 1970's. The Vikings are the only team that exists for them. The Gophers are for them to make jokes about and make fun of me for being a Gopher fan.

Move to Metro Dome (Wikipedia)

- Pressured by downtown Minneapolis business interests and athletic boosters the school elected to move out of the stadium to the new Metrodome during the spring of 1982. Athletic director Paul Giel cited the advantages of recruiting by playing in a new NFL venue. Also, the attendance was expected to go up in the late fall with protection from harsh weather. The stadium had been neglected by this time, and was badly in need of renovation. New coach Lou Holtz gave an impassioned speech when the time came in 1984 to decide whether to remain at the Metrodome, and declared that "athletes want to play at the Dome."
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I understand the records of the Vikings and Gophers since 1961, that's not what I meant. I'm looking for an explanation of how one (Vikings) translates to the other's (Gophers) on-field performance; in this case the Vikings success translating the Gophers ineptitude.

Your Wikipedia (great source) citation also indicates nothing about the move being a direct consequence of the Vikings.

You know, the Twins arrived at the same time as the Vikings, and signed a lease at the Metrodome in 1982 as well, Why not blame them too while you're at it?
 

UpnorthGo4 said:
Vikings

- Bud Grant's First Year - 1967 Season

- First Division Title - 1968 Season

- First Super Bowl - 1969 Season

- Last Super Bowl - 1976 Season

Gophers

- Last Big 10 Championship - 1967

- The Gophers were a big deal in Minnesota during the 1960s with a National Championship, two Big 10 Championships, and two Rose Bowl appearances. By the time of the 4th Super Bowl in 1976 the Gophers football team had been all but eclipsed by the Vikings in the sports media and the public conciousness. I know because I was there. None of my friends and not one person that I have ever worked with has attended a Gopher football game since the 1970's. The Vikings are the only team that exists for them. The Gophers are for them to make jokes about and make fun of me for being a Gopher fan.

Move to Metro Dome (Wikipedia)

- Pressured by downtown Minneapolis business interests and athletic boosters the school elected to move out of the stadium to the new Metrodome during the spring of 1982. Athletic director Paul Giel cited the advantages of recruiting by playing in a new NFL venue. Also, the attendance was expected to go up in the late fall with protection from harsh weather. Memorial Stadium had been neglected by this time, and was badly in need of renovation. New coach Lou Holtz gave an impassioned speech when the time came in 1984 to decide whether to remain at the Metrodome, and declared that "athletes want to play at the Dome."
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This right here is one of the reasons I hope Lou Holtz gets hit by a bus.
 


Why do people always argue the Gophs take a back seat to the team in purple because of a lack of winning? What exactly have the purple won in 50 years? Sure they've been to four Super Bowls (in the '70s and all losses) but they have only made four deep runs since then (one of them being a 41-0 laugher) and haven't been back to the Super Bowl since. Other than that, what have they won? In the No Fun League if you don't win the Super Bowl your season is not a success and they have yet to win one. Them making the playoffs and losing in the first round is no different than the Gophs playing in some mid-tier bowl, IMHO. I guess I just don't understand the lack of winning argument.
 

Perhaps the Vikings have cut into the Gophers support. That's a reality to be dealt with. They aren't going away, so we have to make the best of the situation. Too many people seem to think that the way the media treats the Gophers actually represents the level of support the Gophers have. When people turn on the radio to get some sports information, and for the Gophers all they get is a media which insults them for being interested in the Gophers, it gives people the impression that they are alone. And when people feel they are alone, they act like they are alone. That's a propaganda technique to make people feel they are alone so that they don't unite with like-minded people. No, I am not saying the media is intentionally doing this. Only that the effect is similar.
 

The Vikings have always been available to everyone on free TV. When I was growing up, it was a rare treat to see a Gophers game on TV. That helped give the NFL a big leg up.
 

SMU GOPHS FAN said:
Why do people always argue the Gophs take a back seat to the team in purple because of a lack of winning? What exactly have the purple won in 50 years? Sure they've been to four Super Bowls (in the '70s and all losses) but they have only made four deep runs since then (one of them being a 41-0 laugher) and haven't been back to the Super Bowl since. Other than that, what have they won? In the No Fun League if you don't win the Super Bowl your season is not a success and they have yet to win one. Them making the playoffs and losing in the first round is no different than the Gophs playing in some mid-tier bowl, IMHO. I guess I just don't understand the lack of winning argument.
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Because the Vikings, more often then not, have been contenders SMU and the Gophers haven't been. Those Super Bowls translate to National Championships. True, the Gophers actually HAVE some of those, but not in the last 50 years. They haven't played for any during that time and the Vikings have played for 4.

Conference Championship equates to BCS Bowl. The Vikings have played in 8(?),since 1968 the Gophers none. Minor bowls equal first round NFL games and why the Gophers and Vikings are about equal there lately, the big difference is Vikings can advance while the Gophers end there. No playoff talk even exits, thankfully, for minor bowls.

Who knows, maybe the new division split will end that, at least if they win there's a chance at a BCS game.

Either way the Gophers need to become contenders for Big Ten championships or meaningful January Bowl games before the public embraces them again and the KFAN-like snarkiness comes to an end.
 



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