P.J. Fleck on Darius Taylor in OT - "The trainer pulled him out. We'll figure it out as we move forward."

[GopherLady]

Other notes from his post game interview on KFAN:

Fleck: Just completely broke down, didn't make any plays. It's unfortunate, it's a hard one to swallow, but this is the Big 10. 4th quarter was really tough.

We just weren't getting guys on the ground…untimely penalties, 4th down we couldn't get off the field. That's just not what we do.

We wanted to be able to control the clock and weren't able to do it.

It's the Big 10, we've got to respond. You've got to swallow your own pill. We're gonna respond though. There's not quit in this team.

Fleck on Darius Taylor in OT - trainer pulled him out. We'll figure it out as we move forward.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Taylor grabbed his hamstring after his last carry. Guessing that is why they held him out. Hope it isn't anything major because he is a ton of fun to watch.

Tough one to swallow in a game we needed to win if wanted to have a realistic shot in the West with the schedule we have.

 

[GophersWin!]

Taylor grabbed his hamstring after his last carry. Guessing that is why they held him out. Hope it isn't anything major because he is a ton of fun to watch.

Tough one to swallow in a game we needed to win if wanted to have a realistic shot in the West with the schedule we have.

If it’s a hamstring. It is a big problem. Line i said when Cody supposedly was going to be out a week with a tweaked hammy. Nope. Cody still hasn’t played.

 

[Schnauzer]

He actually grabbed at his thigh two different plays. I said several times as his carries were skyrocketing that he was getting overused and I wouldn’t be surprised to see an injury.

 

[gopherbadgerman]

If he’s hurt we’re totally fucked

 

[short ornery norwegian]

If he’s hurt we’re totally fucked

IF Taylor can't go next week, and IF Evans still doesn't play - then PJ is going to have to explain publicly what's going on with Evans.

 

[3399]

Other notes from his post game interview on KFAN:

Fleck: Just completely broke down, didn't make any plays. It's unfortunate, it's a hard one to swallow, but this is the Big 10. 4th quarter was really tough.

We just weren't getting guys on the ground…untimely penalties, 4th down we couldn't get off the field. That's just not what we do.

We wanted to be able to control the clock and weren't able to do it.

It's the Big 10, we've got to respond. You've got to swallow your own pill. We're gonna respond though. There's not quit in this team.

Fleck on Darius Taylor in OT - trainer pulled him out. We'll figure it out as we move forward.

He threw the trainer under the bus. Nice.

 

[mngolf]

He threw the trainer under the bus. Nice.

How is that? He doesn't play if the drs/trainers/player say they can't. You want Fleck to override any of those? And at that point in time may not have known extent of injury.

 

[mngolf]

IF Taylor can't go next week, and IF Evans still doesn't play - then PJ is going to have to explain publicly what's going on with Evans.

No chance he tells public exactly what's happening with Evans. But if he doesn't play next week, id say he solidly in doghouse.

 

[stocker08]

Tough one to swallow in a game we needed to win if wanted to have a realistic shot in the West with the schedule we have.

A win against NW wasn't realistically improving our chances to win the West. The team we saw against Nebraska wasn't a fluke and we were all hoping it was.

 

[Polski]

He grabbed his hammy twice. Once after his 2nd to last carry, and then again after his last carry.

Just run em till they break. Don't split carries with anyone else. Brilliant coaching.

 

[MNVCGUY]

He grabbed his hammy twice. Once after his 2nd to last carry, and then again after his last carry.

Just run em till they break. Don't split carries with anyone else. Brilliant coaching.

Look....I get the argument that the carries should be split more earlier in the game (I don't even disagree with it) but the reality is that Williams was ineffective on the 4 carries he had while Taylor was tearing it up.

The reality is that a hamstring injury (assuming that is what it was) could happen at any point, so yeah, maybe limiting his carries keeps him from getting dinged late but maybe it doesn't.

Pretty clear that at the moment Taylor is the only guy they really trust. Hopefully we see someone else step up and carry some of the load moving forward.

 

[Schnauzer]

The reality is that a hamstring injury (assuming that is what it was) could happen at any point, so yeah, maybe limiting his carries keeps him from getting dinged late but maybe it doesn't.

Ruptured Achilles tendons can happen to a running back at any time too. Even on their 30th carry, in the third quarter. Sh|t happens and it is just fate that some backs get hurt.

Or

There is a different way to think about this. An injury an happen on any play, yes. But on that play, say there is a .000001% chance of a broken arm, a .0001% chance of a pulled hammy, a .001% chance of a cramp, etc. etc. Which RB is more likely to get hurt, the RB with 45 carries, or the one with 20?

 

[UpAndUnder43]

Ruptured Achilles tendons can happen to a running back at any time too. Even on their 30th carry, in the third quarter. Sh|t happens and it is just fate that some backs get hurt.

Or

There is a different way to think about this. An injury an happen on any play, yes. But on that play, say there is a .000001% chance of a broken arm, a .0001% chance of a pulled hammy, a .001% chance of a cramp, etc. etc. Which RB is more likely to get hurt, the RB with 45 carries, or the one with 20?

I’m sure you’ll disagree but these studies are interesting. Yes—its about the nfl but I’d surmise that college is the same.

The Effect of the Number of Carries Among College Running Backs on Future Injury Risk and Performance in the National Football League - PMC

There has been speculation that running backs with an excessive number of carries in college are less likely to be successful in the National Football League (NFL). To determine whether there is a correlation between number of carries by college ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The Effect of the Number of Carries on Injury Risk and Subsequent Season’s Performance Among Running Backs in the National Football League - PMC

In recent years, several studies have correlated pitch count with an increased risk for injury among baseball pitchers. However, no studies have attempted to draw a similar conclusion based on number of carries by running backs (RBs) in football. To ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[mngolf]

He grabbed his hammy twice. Once after his 2nd to last carry, and then again after his last carry.

Just run em till they break. Don't split carries with anyone else. Brilliant coaching.

Split with? Williams was ineffective. Tyler has shown some tendency to fumble. Sure you would have ripped Fleck if that happened. Leaves Evans who seems to be in the doghouse.

 

[Some guy]

A win against NW wasn't realistically improving our chances to win the West. The team we saw against Nebraska wasn't a fluke and we were all hoping it was.

Agree. A game you needed to win the west but this team was never winning the west

2020 rebuild all over again

 

[3399]

How is that? He doesn't play if the drs/trainers/player say they can't. You want Fleck to override any of those? And at that point in time may not have known extent of injury.

Because you tell the press there was a medical issue that kept him from playing and your concern for the young man's health was the reason he was longer in the game. Then you go on to say the medical staff will monitor his progress and you hope to have him back on the field as soon possible because he is a significant part of the offense. What you DON'T do is specifically call out the trainer who is just doing his/her job. When you are the head coach, you choose your words carefully. You may not think it's a big deal. I guarantee you that it is to the medical staff.

 

[Some guy]

Because you tell the press there was a medical issue that kept him from playing and your concern for the young man's health was the reason he was longer in the game. Then you go on to say the medical staff will monitor his progress and you hope to have him back on the field as soon possible because he is a significant part of the offense. What you DON'T do is specifically call out the trainer who is just doing his/her job. When you are the head coach, you choose your words carefully. You may not think it's a big deal. I guarantee you that it is to the medical staff.

Lol

The difference between what he said and what you want is basically the Spider-Man meme

 

[SHGopher]

PJ has a balancing act. On the one hand, fans like me see the passing offense as not able to sustain drives. Hey, Darius Taylor is amazing, give him 110 reps this quarter. Some of us fans don't know where limits are.

On the other hand, people are saying there's a limit to what a player should take, especially at that age, and he was high in his reps.

Hopefully this was a way to have him taken out without it looking like PJ was abandoning his money move top player and RB.

Hopefully not something serious with his health.

 

[Some guy]

I’m sure you’ll disagree but these studies are interesting. Yes—its about the nfl but I’d surmise that college is the same.

The Effect of the Number of Carries Among College Running Backs on Future Injury Risk and Performance in the National Football League - PMC

There has been speculation that running backs with an excessive number of carries in college are less likely to be successful in the National Football League (NFL). To determine whether there is a correlation between number of carries by college ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The Effect of the Number of Carries on Injury Risk and Subsequent Season’s Performance Among Running Backs in the National Football League - PMC

In recent years, several studies have correlated pitch count with an increased risk for injury among baseball pitchers. However, no studies have attempted to draw a similar conclusion based on number of carries by running backs (RBs) in football. To ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Yeah it’s pretty interesting people take this as fact when in fact; there is no data to support it

 

[Catechol]

Yeah it’s pretty interesting people take this as fact when in fact; there is no data to support it

I don’t have time to read the studies but wonder if their data are affected by bias. There’s “survivor bias” in which those who had more carries were inherently less injury prone, whereas it doesn’t answer the question of even if you have a durable back, can you run them > 30 carries in a game without an increased risk of overuse injury? Keep in mind this was also a late night game which may be different on the body in terms of hydration, metabolism, energy and so on.

 

[Some guy]

I don’t have time to read the studies but wonder if their data are affected by bias. There’s “survivor bias” in which those who had more carries were inherently less injury prone, whereas it doesn’t answer the question of even if you have a durable back, can you run them > 30 carries in a game without an increased risk of overuse injury? Keep in mind this was also a late night game which may be different on the body in terms of hydration, metabolism, energy and so on.

It doesn’t matter because you can’t prove a negative
There is no data to prove the positive

The study was trying to prove there is correlation. It couldn’t find data to support it.

The study didn’t prove there is no correlation. it Failed to prove that there was.

 

[Catechol]

It doesn’t matter because you can’t prove a negative
There is no data to prove the positive

The study was trying to prove there is correlation. It couldn’t find data to support it.

The study didn’t prove there is no correlation. it Failed to prove that there was.

I didn’t say they could prove no correlation with this study, although they discussed exactly my point about selection/survivor bias now that I took a look at the second paper. Moreover these studies are of NFL players which, although they may only be a couple years older, represent a selection bias over even the power 5 RB pool.

“RBs with a high number of carries (group B, 300+ carries in 1 season) are not only among the most talented athletes in the game (only 63 players in this category over an 11-season span), but they also have demonstrated an innate ability to perform in a way that minimizes injury risk. This is further evidenced by the fact that players in group B missed significantly fewer games during the season of interest as well as the subsequent season compared with players in group A. Thus, the unique players in group B may simply be more durable and less injury prone compared with other NFL RBs.”

Are we to believe that PJ always has one of these somewhat-rare super durable backs as a starter and thus can always ride with 30+ carries per game?

 

[Some guy]

I didn’t say they could prove no correlation with this study, although they discussed exactly my point about selection/survivor bias now that I took a look at the second paper. Moreover these studies are of NFL players which, although they may only be a couple years older, represent a selection bias over even the power 5 RB pool.

“RBs with a high number of carries (group B, 300+ carries in 1 season) are not only among the most talented athletes in the game (only 63 players in this category over an 11-season span), but they also have demonstrated an innate ability to perform in a way that minimizes injury risk. This is further evidenced by the fact that players in group B missed significantly fewer games during the season of interest as well as the subsequent season compared with players in group A. Thus, the unique players in group B may simply be more durable and less injury prone compared with other NFL RBs.”

Are we to believe that PJ always has one of these somewhat-rare super durable backs as a starter and thus can always ride with 30+ carries per game?

There is no data to suggest bad backs get hurt more often when getting 30+ Carries
Nor good backs
Nor medium backs

So in the end your question doesn’t really matter to what I’m talking about

 

[hello-world]

Ruptured Achilles tendons can happen to a running back at any time too. Even on their 30th carry, in the third quarter. Sh|t happens and it is just fate that some backs get hurt.

Or

There is a different way to think about this. An injury an happen on any play, yes. But on that play, say there is a .000001% chance of a broken arm, a .0001% chance of a pulled hammy, a .001% chance of a cramp, etc. etc. Which RB is more likely to get hurt, the RB with 45 carries, or the one with 20?

Injuries are more likely when your body is fatigued and unconditioned.

 

[3399]

Lol

The difference between what he said and what you want is basically the Spider-Man meme

Oh if you only knew....

 

[Word]

Injuries are more likely when your body is fatigued and unconditioned.

Do we know this as fact?

 

[short ornery norwegian]

here's how I see it.

there is a risk of injury on every play. the more snaps you play, the more often you are exposed to that risk.

if a RB carries the ball 20 times, he is getting hit by defenders 20 times (unless he runs out of bounds with no contact). If a RB carries the ball 30 times, he is getting hit by defenders 30 times. there can be a cumulative effect to the wear and tear on the legs and the impact being absorbed.

now, it is certainly possible that a RB can have 30 carries with no injury. body type, running style and conditioning all factor into the equation.

but - when the RB in question is a true FR, I think you want to be careful in his workload.

Big difference between an 18 or 19-yr old -- and a 23-yr old who has been in a college weight and conditioning program for 4 or 5 years.

 

[Dakota2]

PJ has a balancing act. On the one hand, fans like me see the passing offense as not able to sustain drives. Hey, Darius Taylor is amazing, give him 110 reps this quarter. Some of us fans don't know where limits are.

On the other hand, people are saying there's a limit to what a player should take, especially at that age, and he was high in his reps.

Hopefully this was a way to have him taken out without it looking like PJ was abandoning his money move top player and RB.

Hopefully not something serious with his health.

What did you see last night that told you the passing attack couldn’t move the ball and sustain drives? They were 9-9 the first half. They were 14-19 for the game. CAB had a drop and BSF dropped a poor but catchable TD throw.

AK’s yards per attempt was higher than NW.

 

[mngolf]

I've seen "experts " say Fleck should have run him more last night.