Osunde Commits

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As long as they can get some JC kids who will qualify for enrollment, that will be nice.

Sure. Brewster climbed the signing day rankings, but at the end of the day, most of his big time recruits either couldn't qualify or flamed out. (Do I think Brewster recruited more talent than Mason's last few years? Yes, definitely, but it has yet to show a result on the field.)

I just finished reading "Meat Market" about Ed Orgeron at Ole Miss. Those guys would go out and recruit big names or guys who could run fast or lift a lot, but people who couldn't stay in school or out of trouble.

When Signing Day came, everyone would fall all over themselves about what a great class they had at Ole Miss, even though the coaching staff knew that the true impact recruits wouldn't be able to suit up. Personally, I think Brewster did a lot of the same.
 

I look forward to watching Henderson more than anyone except Marquis. He'll be well coached for the first time and may just blow us away with his performance.
 

emann said:
When Signing Day came, everyone would fall all over themselves about what a great class they had at Ole Miss, even though the coaching staff knew that the true impact recruits wouldn't be able to suit up. Personally, I think Brewster did a lot of the same.
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I think this was really true about the 2008 class, but I think after that, Brewster wised up a little and tried to make sure kids were gonna qualify. We only lost a couple the past two years and none of the biggest recruits. I wish that Green kid would have been able to qualify last year. Gray probably wouldn't have played receiver this year had he. In 2008 we had big time trouble getting guys into school. I think the 2 or 3 top guys failed to qualify and then we lost a bunch (Dandridge, Whaley, et al). Recruiting is tough. Brewster loved to win signing day more than anyone. No question we have some pretty talented guys, but they haven't been properly utilized.
 

Basically Coach Kill is recruiting JUCO heavily right now because 1) those are the kids available of any substance this late in the game and 2) the top high school talent has already had long standing relationships with other schools and your not just going to jump into the mix this late with those kids and finally 3) These JUCO kids fill depth issues and balance out the loses of players who have busted or have left.

With all of this said, I expect Coach Kill to recruit JUCO's more than Mason and Brewster, but try for more top level JUCO kids due to his connections in the JUCO ranks. It is just smart business if you can do it. If he is taking many 2nd rate JUCO kids, then it becomes a problem.
 


KU4LIFE said:
Basically Coach Kill is recruiting JUCO heavily right now because 1) those are the kids available of any substance this late in the game and 2) the top high school talent has already had long standing relationships with other schools and your not just going to jump into the mix this late with those kids and finally 3) These JUCO kids fill depth issues and balance out the loses of players who have busted or have left.

With all of this said, I expect Coach Kill to recruit JUCO's more than Mason and Brewster, but try for more top level JUCO kids due to his connections in the JUCO ranks. It is just smart business if you can do it. If he is taking many 2nd rate JUCO kids, then it becomes a problem.
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The reason we are recruiting JUCO's heavy right now is because we're already into the signing period for mid year transfers and it's a dead period for everyone else. Jan 3rd we'll see a gradual shift toward HS recruits for this year and next year.
 

Yup that is very true. Again, the JUCO recruiting Coach Kill is doing makes a lot of sense in the grand scheme of things. Once the dead period is over, you will see more high school kids added to the mix and the relationships will start to be built for the future.
 


MaxyJR1 said:
You think Kill doesn't know that? Kill can't be expected to come in and all of a sudden start recruiting against OSU and Wisconsin. He needs guys to fill 2010 spots and JC guys that can step in and play right away. He is going to red-shirt a lot of HS guys in my opinion.
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But there is no reason to be going after these kinds of players a month and a half before signing day. He could offer the type of guys he is getting a four days before signing day and they would come. He is beating out the likes of Wagner, Milberry, North Texas, Florida International, Northern Illinois, Eastern Michigan for players. Why not aim big now and go after this type of recruit if you HAVE to? He needs to recognize that many of the commits prior to his arrival also do not look to be elite prospects. There was hardly any competition for them either. Put that together with last year's class, which contained a lot of fill-ins after 11 de-committed, and you just have to do better.

Or maybe we are just going with the blind faith again like so many did with Brewster.............. (it's okay to be critical, you know).
 



3399 said:
But there is no reason to be going after these kinds of players a month and a half before signing day. He could offer the type of guys he is getting a four days before signing day and they would come. .
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Maybe they wouldn't come if we wait? Maybe we would be completely out of luck if we wait on these guys? You don't know, I don't know. I'm thinking Kill knows more about it.
 

So tell me 3399, what (realistic) recruits would you rather have come to Minnesota than these guys right now?
 

Im not as worried about the recruiting because I feel that we have talent on both sides of the ball returning next year, there are some depth issues but lots of talent. Id starting worrying if the 2013 class is still full of 2-3 star players. I dont know what people are really expecting with this class.
 

goldygo4 said:
So tell me 3399, what (realistic) recruits would you rather have come to Minnesota than these guys right now?
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I have no idea. But I am not getting paid a million dollars to find them. If I were, I would tell you. The point is these guys are getting no attention from BCS schools. They would commit in a heartbeat at ANY time. So why set the bar so low now? Take Grayson Levine. He has one offer- to Eastern Michigan. If Kill called him on Jan 28, he would change from wherever to commit. So why not see if you can do better now? Just filling spots, setting the bar low and giving the appearance that you are out hustling recruits does not win games. Like I said earlier, ask Bill Lynch. And I just don't buy this late start stuff. This is their job, get after it. I just don't understand why Gopher fans are always willing to accept low standards. I think the standards should be set high. There is nothing in Jerry Kill's background that makes me believe he is just going to take a bunch of nobodys, develop them, then out-coach the rest of the guys in the Big Ten. If you have been watching the Big Ten in bowl games, it is obvious there are some darn good coaches in this league. Kill's has only coached three seasons at the Division one level and one was just below .500, one was just above .500, and then one good season playing against a very soft schedule (which included a 6 point win over North Dakota). Joe Novak is the one who built NIU, not Kill. Novak had one bad year when his health was not so good. Kill inherited a talented team, including many of the playmakers on his 2010 NIU team. He is going to need players to win. He is putting himself at a disadvantage with the recruits he is bringing in now. Or else all of the rest of the football powers are missing the boat on these guys.
 



3399 said:
So why set the bar so low now? Take Grayson Levine. He has one offer- to Eastern Michigan. If Kill called him on Jan 28, he would change from wherever to commit. So why not see if you can do better now? Just filling spots, setting the bar low and giving the appearance that you are out hustling recruits does not win games. Like I said earlier, ask Bill Lynch. And I just don't buy this late start stuff. This is their job, get after it. I just don't understand why Gopher fans are always willing to accept low standards. I think the standards should be set high.
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You talk like you have some kind of inside information into who the coaches have at the top of the recruiting wish list. How do you know the bar has been set low? Was Levine the worst DB they were targeting and they decided to start offering at the bottom of the list?

Being excited about signing a highly touted recruit is fine and dandy. Me not being upset by the fact we are not signing highly rated recruits does not mean I accept low standards, it means I could care less about the number of stars so called recruiting experts give each kid. I care about the results on the field not the recruiting rankings.
 

3399 said:
I have no idea. But I am not getting paid a million dollars to find them. If I were, I would tell you. The point is these guys are getting no attention from BCS schools. They would commit in a heartbeat at ANY time. So why set the bar so low now? Take Grayson Levine. He has one offer- to Eastern Michigan. If Kill called him on Jan 28, he would change from wherever to commit. So why not see if you can do better now? Just filling spots, setting the bar low and giving the appearance that you are out hustling recruits does not win games. Like I said earlier, ask Bill Lynch. And I just don't buy this late start stuff. This is their job, get after it. I just don't understand why Gopher fans are always willing to accept low standards. I think the standards should be set high. There is nothing in Jerry Kill's background that makes me believe he is just going to take a bunch of nobodys, develop them, then out-coach the rest of the guys in the Big Ten. If you have been watching the Big Ten in bowl games, it is obvious there are some darn good coaches in this league. Kill's has only coached three seasons at the Division one level and one was just below .500, one was just above .500, and then one good season playing against a very soft schedule (which included a 6 point win over North Dakota). Joe Novak is the one who built NIU, not Kill. Novak had one bad year when his health was not so good. Kill inherited a talented team, including many of the playmakers on his 2010 NIU team. He is going to need players to win. He is putting himself at a disadvantage with the recruits he is bringing in now. Or else all of the rest of the football powers are missing the boat on these guys.
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I'd just like to say that I understand 3399's points and agree to an extent that we should be going after some BCS caliber recruits. However, the recruits don't know what to expect out of Kill so they would be understandably hesitant to sign into 4 years of an unknown future when they could sign with the other BCS schools that would be recruiting them. Maybe it's just not worth the time required to pursue so many BCS recruits just to sign a couple of them, and maybe he'll wait til he can get the BCS caliber Minnesota kids or can prove to the other recruits that Minnesota will be worth their while. Just my tipsy two cents...
 

3399 said:
I have no idea. But I am not getting paid a million dollars to find them. If I were, I would tell you. The point is these guys are getting no attention from BCS schools. They would commit in a heartbeat at ANY time. So why set the bar so low now? Take Grayson Levine. He has one offer- to Eastern Michigan. If Kill called him on Jan 28, he would change from wherever to commit. So why not see if you can do better now? Just filling spots, setting the bar low and giving the appearance that you are out hustling recruits does not win games. Like I said earlier, ask Bill Lynch. And I just don't buy this late start stuff. This is their job, get after it. I just don't understand why Gopher fans are always willing to accept low standards. I think the standards should be set high. There is nothing in Jerry Kill's background that makes me believe he is just going to take a bunch of nobodys, develop them, then out-coach the rest of the guys in the Big Ten. If you have been watching the Big Ten in bowl games, it is obvious there are some darn good coaches in this league. Kill's has only coached three seasons at the Division one level and one was just below .500, one was just above .500, and then one good season playing against a very soft schedule (which included a 6 point win over North Dakota). Joe Novak is the one who built NIU, not Kill. Novak had one bad year when his health was not so good. Kill inherited a talented team, including many of the playmakers on his 2010 NIU team. He is going to need players to win. He is putting himself at a disadvantage with the recruits he is bringing in now. Or else all of the rest of the football powers are missing the boat on these guys.
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I get what you are saying, but IMHO I think you are missing the bigger picture. Wisconsin and Iowa win an impressive rate by signing classes that fit their system. I know it is begining to sound cliche but it's true. Every season Wisconsin signs 6-8 guys who don't have a single other BCS offer, including this season (which is shaping up to be an impressive class by the Badgers). Furthermore, unlike WI, we are behind the 8ball on recruiting this season. Our coaches have had minimal time to prepare and we are extremely thin. This means that we are in a position where we need guys who we think fit our system and we sort of need them desperately. Unfortunately, we are in dire need of CB. Supposedly, Osunte was going to take official visits to a few BCS schools (whether it's true or not or whether they would have offered or not, we don't know), however, we are not in a position to hope we can wait on a kid we think fits our needs.

You have to keep in mind for a lot of these kids, we are late to the party. It would be an incredible coup to come in and nab a kid with multiple BCS offers after not being in contact with him in the busiest time in the recruiting season.

Lastly, I don't know if Kill will be succesful but he didn't simply inherit a decent program by Novak. They were coming off of their worst season since the 90's and he brought them to three straight bowl games for the first time in their entire history. Additionally, under Jerry Kill, the recruiting at Northern Illinois got better in each of the seasons.
 

3399 your concerns have been noted. I have the same concerns. I am worried about Coach Kills ability to recruit but lets give the guy a chance. All that matters is winning and if he is doing that by finding guys who dont have four stars and than "coaching them up" than that is great. If not, four years from now will be looking fo another coach.
 

3399 said:
I have no idea. But I am not getting paid a million dollars to find them. If I were, I would tell you. The point is these guys are getting no attention from BCS schools. They would commit in a heartbeat at ANY time. So why set the bar so low now? Take Grayson Levine. He has one offer- to Eastern Michigan. If Kill called him on Jan 28, he would change from wherever to commit.
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So you know more about college recruiting than the guy who is getting paid a million dollars to do it? Maybe Kill should hire you.
 

Hiring a recruiter got us in this mess in the first place. I am more than willing to give Kill a chance. If he can coach them up, who cares? Marion Barber wasn't highly recruited either, and I think he turned out ok with good coaching.
 

3399 said:
I have no idea. But I am not getting paid a million dollars to find them. If I were, I would tell you. The point is these guys are getting no attention from BCS schools. They would commit in a heartbeat at ANY time. So why set the bar so low now? Take Grayson Levine. He has one offer- to Eastern Michigan. If Kill called him on Jan 28, he would change from wherever to commit. So why not see if you can do better now?
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So you don't know and think the guys paying the big bucks should know but then you proceed to second guess them anyway? :confused:

There is no track record to work with when it comes to Kill recruiting as a BCS coach. And I know that leaves folks feeling uneasy. But you don't freak out when a coach hired 2 months before signing day who has holes to fill goes to find JUCO's he thinks might help just because of their offer list. While Kill may not have been a BCS coach before his personality suggests he's not the kind of guy who "settles". Especially not with JUCO's. You sign JUCO's to contribute. He obviously thinks he and his staff have a chance to get something from these guys.

You're correct in that there is no reason not to be blindly faithful. But you're trying to make assumptions based on thin air. This isn't even his class. It's a Brew class that he's trying to retain and add a little bit to. Going on faith for this class IMO is just being more reasonable. You let Kill do what he thinks he needs to do in the little bit of time he has. If you want to be uber critical, save it for the next class when he actually has time to recruit. We still won't know if anyone who is critical or supportive is right or wrong (that'll have to wait until his recruits hit the field) but at least we'll be trying to judge him when he's not playing catch up on the recruiting trail.
 

Recruiting is important, but coaching is more important than recruiting. We've seen the results of decent recruiting combined with bad coaching, it doesn't give good results. Winning is the best recruiter there is. Getting a late start on recruiting doesn't help, and neither does a 3-9 record. Win some games and recruiting will come.
 

The world of college football recruiting exists solely due to groupthink. One player will go to a big school's camp and do well. They will offer a scholarship. Then, everyone else throws that kid up in it's rankings because another school offered. If the kid is in the backyard of another big-time school. they will offer a scholarship, too. (There are many other examples of this, too.)

I more concerned with Kill finding some diamonds that can turn out to be good, productive football players than winning signing day on Rivals or Scout.com. The bulk of the information going to those Web sites are fueled by a player's own hype machine.

Everyone is going to find a Michael Floyd and Seantrell Henderson in this day and age. I'm more concerned and optimistic that Kill can find the Eric Deckers and Marion Barber III's in order to build the program so that the Floyds and Henderson's will actually think twice about coming staying home.

I'm more concerned about the on-field results than the online star rankings.
 

Levine is the Shady Salamon of this class. I'm willing to bet that most new coaches go out and get a local kid right away showing they are serious about local talent. Levine is a great one to get locally. He has some size and plays a position of need.

Remember that only JC players can be talked to right now. These guys all have to be committed by the end of the week so they can start school in January. HS focus will come next week. Osunde comes in at a 3* which is impressive.
 


sanowai said:
You talk like you have some kind of inside information into who the coaches have at the top of the recruiting wish list. How do you know the bar has been set low? Was Levine the worst DB they were targeting and they decided to start offering at the bottom of the list?

Being excited about signing a highly touted recruit is fine and dandy. Me not being upset by the fact we are not signing highly rated recruits does not mean I accept low standards, it means I could care less about the number of stars so called recruiting experts give each kid. I care about the results on the field not the recruiting rankings.
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I completely agree with you about stars. I could care less about stars. I think people show their ignorance when they start talking about how many stars a guys has next to his name. I do look at who else is recruiting a player because I think it is very telling. Especially in the current day when tape is so available. I also recognize the fact that some who are under the radar will emerge, do well, and prosper. But I don't think you want to bring in a whole class of these kinds of players. I think it is cool that Kill has brought all but one of his staff guys wiht him. Yet, none of his guys has coaches at this level either. Only Miller and Hammock have coached at a BCS school, and Hammock has never been anywhere but Mn. I am not saying they are idiots, but this is a huge step up and I do not see enough proof in their past that leaves me 100% confident that they know what they are doing for this level. I have read and heard people compare Kill's time at SOuthern Illinois to Jim Tressel at Youngstown State. It is not a good arguement. Tressel won four national championship and came in 2nd twice (if I am off by a year or two, please forgive). Give Kill a chance? Absolutely! 100%. But I also know he certainly wasn't Maturi's first choice. It all just reminds me too much of Don Morton. Success at lower levels, worked his way up, moderate success at Tulsa, said all the right things when he got to Wisconsin, brought his entire staff that was also lacking experience at the Big Ten level, brought in a lot of players that were not recruited by other schools (did have some good ones like Troy Vincent and Don Davey), was just over over matched and couldn't get the job done. Now just because Morton couldn't do it doesn't mean Kill cannot. It is just at this point, in my opinion, Kill is setting the bar really low and way to early in the recruiting season. In my opinion, I don't think it will change in the future. I think this is how he plans to try to run the program. That is my opinion and this is a chat board so that what this is for. Feel free to disagree because I enjoy the exchange of ideas.
 


I'm fine with the JUCO's coming in

We need depth at the positions he has gone after at the JUCO level. Now. Like right now. JUCO's, while not likely to have a bunch of flashy BCS offer lists aren't going to be on the boards by the end of next month either. The whole point of picking up a JUCO is to get them on campus next month, and they will be on a campus next month, be it ours or somebody elses. We need somebody to plug the huge holes in the junior class and it is not like we can bankroll all these scholarships. Even with creative practices like preferred walkons and greyshirting we are not going to be missing these scholarships if we burn them now, having so many empty slots as it is, so why be so worried?

But as a child of the Morton era in Madison, let me say that 3399's points do ring true. I just don't know if the JUCO aspect is my biggest concern.
 

ulfr said:
The whole point of picking up a JUCO is to get them on campus next month, and they will be on a campus next month, be it ours or somebody elses. We need somebody to plug the huge holes in the junior class and it is not like we can bankroll all these scholarships.
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Very true. Every one of these guys is in line to play next year. We drastically need receivers and defensive backs. Now that we have Osunde and Crawford we might be able to move Stoudemire back to receiver. Rabe is definitely a system need at H-Back. Now we have 6 guys who will be here in January ready to participate in winter conditioning and spring practice.
 

3399 said:
It is just at this point, in my opinion, Kill is setting the bar really low and way to early in the recruiting season. In my opinion, I don't think it will change in the future. I think this is how he plans to try to run the program. That is my opinion and this is a chat board so that what this is for. Feel free to disagree because I enjoy the exchange of ideas.
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Though I don't share your level of concern, I understood your point up until the bold. It is not early in the recruiting season. It is pretty darn late in the recruiting season. That's not really an opinion. That is a fact. Expecting Kill to suddenly be in on kids with more BCS offers when they know nothing about him and haven't met him isn't realistic. Even if the kid got an offer from Brew and showed interest in MN, that doesn't mean he is willing to make a decision to go with a new guy late in the game.

I also disagree with getting worried about the future yet. It's your prerogative and it is a valid opinion until proven otherwise, but to me its just being needlessly pessimistic. Why not just go with a wait and see approach? Also, what about Kill's time at MN makes you think this "offer the kids with no real BCS offers" approach will be his bread and butter moving forward?
 

sanowai said:
You talk like you have some kind of inside information into who the coaches have at the top of the recruiting wish list. How do you know the bar has been set low? Was Levine the worst DB they were targeting and they decided to start offering at the bottom of the list?

Being excited about signing a highly touted recruit is fine and dandy. Me not being upset by the fact we are not signing highly rated recruits does not mean I accept low standards, it means I could care less about the number of stars so called recruiting experts give each kid. I care about the results on the field not the recruiting rankings.
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We all care about the results on the field, and more talented players tend to produce better results. Why is that so hard for people to understand?
 

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