Ok...Once and for all

GopherHomer

Am I Though?
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Let's get solid opinions on record. Be brief and list exactly why you do/don't think Brewster is up to the challenge of coaching the Gophers. Specific examples will be helpful, and make sure to mention what you would have done differently. I feel this will allow us to intelligently discuss the merits of his past/future tenure with our university. (full disclosure: I'm a huge Brewster supporter who thinks he deserves until the end of 2011 before we talk about a firing)
 

Recruits well and as those recruits get experienced they will execute better. A lot of our problem is poor execution (some from the WR's, some O line, mostly Weber) Brewster is up to it and great athletes want to play for him. Also believe he needs until the end of 2011
 

Recruits well and as those recruits get experienced they will execute better. A lot of our problem is poor execution (some from the WR's, some O line, mostly Weber) Brewster is up to it and great athletes want to play for him. Also believe he needs until the end of 2011

Agree 99.9%
 

Let's get solid opinions on record. Be brief and list exactly why you do/don't think Brewster is up to the challenge of coaching the Gophers. Specific examples will be helpful, and make sure to mention what you would have done differently. I feel this will allow us to intelligently discuss the merits of his past/future tenure with our university. (full disclosure: I'm a huge Brewster supporter who thinks he deserves until the end of 2011 before we talk about a firing)

If he deserves until the end of 2011 before discussing a firing, then you have to talk about extension. Based on what? He is no better coach today than he was in 2007, the team lacks anything in the way of discipline on the field, and the way he throws time-outs away has become predictable to the point of comical. Will he suddenly not be in over his head next season? If not, how does he accomplish that progression in the off-season?
Maturi rolled the dice on an inexperienced huckster. He either admits the hiring mistake and pulls the plug now, or rides it out and pulls the plug a year from now.
(Full disclosure: At Brewster's introductory news conference I thought they hired a blow-hard and wondered if he could coach. Now I know they hired a blow-hard, and the answer to the second question has become fairly apparent)
 

1 more year

I don't think Brewster is a great coach, but he is good enough to win in the Big 10 because he attracts talent. He made a good decision to get rid of the spread offense, but then he made a bad decision in hiring Fisch.

Fisch had better grow up quick. I have seen some well designed plays this year followed by crap. Trick plays are fun, but only 1 a game please! We have way too many formations, which results in 5 yard penalties because these college kids can't keep it all straight - can you blame them? Please get a set of base plays for the bowl game to build on for next year. I don't mind seeing the same 15 plays if they work.
 


Thanks for the responses so far. Only two against Brewster so far (doesn't surprise me...it's much easier to be against someone in power, than to actually articulate why). Reasons for firing so far: No discipline on the field, wasting time-outs, hiring Fisch, being a 'huckster', being a 'blowhard', being 'in over his head.' Only one of these reasons was well thought out and supported with intelligent, sound reasoning (thanks Plymouth). It's hard to defend the Fisch hiring at this point...the offensive results are what they are. That being said, I still would be willing to give him and Brewster another year + to prove their worth. As for Hudson's response, I'll give him that there have been a handful of wasted time-outs...hardly costing us any wins, though (at least to my knowledge). The rest of his response is just more of the cliche's being thrown around by the anti-Brewster crowd that seem to display a personal distaste for the coach's personality more than anything. The anti-discipline thing is almost impossible to prove...penalties are just as likely the result of physical mismatches as they are of coaching. If you don't give a college football coach five years, you'll be in a perpetual rebuilding phase kind of like the professional basketball team in this town.
 

Hard to be brief on this, but:

1) His teams overall have gotten better each of his three years. Not record wise, but I believe OVERALL they are better in each season.
2) He reaches out to high school coaches, is a great ambassedor for Gopher football
3) Recognizes recruiting is crucial to becoming a top program, delivers good recruiting classes. Is not lazy about recruiting, unlike some coaches of the past
4) He hires good defensive coordinators
5) His special teams are good. Next year, if we hold onto Kip Smith, with Orseske back, we'll have maybe the best kicker/punter combo in Gopher history.
6) He doesn't rip his players publicly. The type of guy I'd want my son playing for.
7) He has taken way more crap from journalists/fans than he deserves. The cupboard was BARE when he took over. Yet he seems to be holding up under the barrage, which means he's tough.
8) Players HAVE improved under his coaching. Tell me Lee Campbell, Nate Triplett, Garrett Brown, Marcus Sherels (should I go on?) and even Decker were as good a player as sophs as they are now.
9) Offensive linemen take lots of time to develop, unless they are freakishly good. We don't have any that are freakishly good, so he needs more time to get some of the younger, more athletic types in place to be able to do more zone blocking. (Besides, the OL got more flack than they deserve this year, due to Weber's inability to unload the ball.)
10) He'll outwork anybody

These are just some of my opinions on Brewster, and I know they are subject to dispute, but I believe these points to be true.
 

Brewster

I agree that Brewster should be given more time. I think where he went wrong was bringing in the spread in the first place. I don't think kids want to play in it because it is not played on Sunday. The pro-style is the right place to be... and this was the first season.

He also went wrong by not brining in defensive coordinators that wanted to stay and build continuity. Look at Iowa... Norm Paker has been for 11 seasons and it shows in games like today when their top linebacker goes down and the next guys steps up and they don't miss a beat.

Ferentz is generally regarded as a great coach. His first 3 seasons in Iowa City he had a record of 11 wins and 24 loses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirk_Ferentz). Brewster has 14 wins and 22 loses through his first three seasons. What would Iowa have missed out on if they fired Ferentz after 3 seasons?

Lets see how the next class of recruits and freshmen who redshirted this year turn out next season. There is a lot of PT out there to be had. Hopefully he can back up his talk by keeping all the CDH and other friday night stars in state. (Binns and Eubanks would have looked good on our side yesterday)

Lets not become an NBA style program that turns coaches like a gattling gun and pays people who are long gone. We need continuity.
 

My view from the East re Brewster...

Pros:

Above-average recruiter
Good results in "closing borders"
Good game day motivator
Very good U promoter throughout Minny/GN fan base
Working hard to get Gs on the "Big Stage" with national presence
Scheduling more competitive non-conference matchups
Above-average ST/SFs coaching results
Ability to generate in-game/2H adjustments not seen in previous regime
Determined coaching to overcome G history of 2H collapses
Very good progress on defensive side with Cosgrove hire...hired experience
Developing player depth as the pipeline gets on-field experience
Relentlessly positive about the future success of the program
Championship goals and upper-tier bowl objectives...aiming high
A high energy HC that his players really seem to connect with

Cons:

Presided over coaching staff instability, probably due to lack of any HCing experience
Failure to set an overall team O/D identity from initial hiring date, thus losing HCing momentum
Failure early on to match O/D schemes with available talent levels
Hired NFL coordinators trying to implement too complicated pro schemes at the collegiate level
Failed to simplify excessively complicated NFL O schemes used by JF, an on-the-job-training hire
From a HCing viewpoint, presided over regression in ability at the qb position
Demonstated poor in-game clock management on many situations
Presided over the breakdown in on-field discipline in many areas of player execution, esp drive-killing stupid penalties

My take:

The pros are quite positive...many of the cons are being solved by learning HCing on the job. Another year will determine how effectively the HCing cons are being addressed and will generate enough input to make an intelligent decision on the future of the Brewster era at Minny.
 



I believe Brewster took what was one of the most effective offenses in college football and ruined it. There is no denying that. The ground game of Barber, Maroney, and even Russell wasn't sexy enough for Brew when he came to the 'U'. This is the blood on his hands.

That being said, I think Brewster deserves at least one more year. I don't know what happened with the spread and Dunbar, but both are gone. Short term, we may have won a game or two more this season, but it's not going to be what gets Minnesota to a Rose Bowl. I believe (or maybe just really want to believe) Brewster saw that as well, so he shifted gears.

Our teams are more athletic than ever. When was the last time we had guys as young as Tinsley and Cooper making big plays on defense for us, against anybody?

I'm not sold that Gray is the long-term answer at quarterback--- but I'm not sure I need to be.

So long as Cosgrove stays---- I think the real question this off-season needs to be, is Jedd Fisch the answer to run the offense? If he's not, at what point is Brewster held accountable for his loyalty because Brew's job rests squarely on Fisch's shoulders as we head into next year.

2010 Prediction:
Middle Tennessee State: Win
South Dakota: Win
Southern Cal.: Loss
Northern Illinois: Win
Northwestern: Win
Wisconsin: Loss
Purdue: Win
Penn State: Win
Ohio State: Loss
Michigan State: Win
Illinois: Win
Iowa: Win

Final Record: 9-3 It's not Pasadena... but it's progress.
 

Thanks for the responses so far. Only two against Brewster so far (doesn't surprise me...it's much easier to be against someone in power, than to actually articulate why). Reasons for firing so far: No discipline on the field, wasting time-outs, hiring Fisch, being a 'huckster', being a 'blowhard', being 'in over his head.' Only one of these reasons was well thought out and supported with intelligent, sound reasoning (thanks Plymouth). It's hard to defend the Fisch hiring at this point...the offensive results are what they are. That being said, I still would be willing to give him and Brewster another year + to prove their worth. As for Hudson's response, I'll give him that there have been a handful of wasted time-outs...hardly costing us any wins, though (at least to my knowledge). The rest of his response is just more of the cliche's being thrown around by the anti-Brewster crowd that seem to display a personal distaste for the coach's personality more than anything. The anti-discipline thing is almost impossible to prove...penalties are just as likely the result of physical mismatches as they are of coaching. If you don't give a college football coach five years, you'll be in a perpetual rebuilding phase kind of like the professional basketball team in this town.


I get it. Ask for an opinion amd then discount those who disagree. Rather than drink the Kool-Aid I took a wait-and-see with Brewster. I've waited and what we've all seen is a football team that is clearly poorly coached at the end of the 3rd season of the experiement with a neophyte.
As for wasted time outs, we don't know how costly they might have been because the offense can't generate anthing so it's hard to predict their value when the final minutes are meaningless.
Does Maturi think he made a mistake with the hire? If so, why wait another year other than to save money, because he will still have a coach who is in over his head in 2010. And I would venture that opinion is held by a much larger percentage of Gopher fans than your "poll" would indicate.
 

I'm in a hurry so will start with one:

Played Weber

What I would have done:

Bench Weber
 

I don't think Brewster is a great coach, but he is good enough to win in the Big 10 because he attracts talent. He made a good decision to get rid of the spread offense, but then he made a bad decision in hiring Fisch.

Fisch had better grow up quick. I have seen some well designed plays this year followed by crap. Trick plays are fun, but only 1 a game please! We have way too many formations, which results in 5 yard penalties because these college kids can't keep it all straight - can you blame them? Please get a set of base plays for the bowl game to build on for next year. I don't mind seeing the same 15 plays if they work.

Fisch stated that the offense will be much better next year. I take that to mean that he has learned much this year and will adjust to the college level and also learn on the job to be a good OC.

Brewsters big mistake is hiring Pro coaches rather than sticking with coaches experienced at the college level. Things will work their way out but it will take longer than he wanted.

Oh by the way if we are disgusted what is going on on the Michigan board?
 



Brew's key challenge is that he does/says the right things (leads) well, but does not DO the right things (manages) well. Big difference. He is a good leader, but not a good manager. This bears itself out positively in the promotion and recruitment phases of his job (vision thing-he is great on these dimensions), but also negatively in his inability to step in and make the good decisions (nuts and bolts day to day decisions--benching weber, dealing with penalties, poor timeouts, preparation for games, real time decisions) when his staff or players make mistakes.

Not many people have both traits, but the successful ones are also smart enough to realize it and ensure those under them fill the gaps and complement their skill set, abilities, etc. Again, mgmt 101stuff that Brew has missed or doesn't understand. He's Tony Robbins, and we need Jack Welch.

At the end of the day, unless, he fixes these issues, he will be a "one termer"..talent and schemes have nothing to do with it.
 

Only two against Brewster so far (doesn't surprise me...it's much easier to be against someone in power, than to actually articulate why).

Excellent point, and looks too be quite accurate based on the lack of responses to your thread so far.

My thoughts are pretty well in line with NewEnglandGold's post. If nothing else, Brew has brought much more attention to the program than we have had in a while. Obviously not all of it is positive, but just look at the activity on this board and the attention we seem to get from the media (again, not all positive) and it is much more than pre-Brew.

Positives (or why Brew should remain our coach)
--Believes in the program, the U, the state, the fans, the players, etc.
--This year in particular, our teams fought hard until the end
--Talent level and athletic ability is much better than we had pre-Brew
--Has kept his cool in the midst of constant criticism from media and some fans

Negatives (or areas where Brew needs to improve to get us to the next level)
--Discipline on and off the field
--Clock management
--Developing a direction or identity for this program
--Keep team from hitting lulls in games and during the season

As it is, I think the negatives can be overcome. But, they will need to be to keep him around and to continue to bring kids into the program.
 

I've believed for years that a new coach needs five years, having seen lots of coaches flounder for that time, then catch on. Brew is positive, a great booster, a good to very good recruiter, is loyal to his players, doesn't knock them in public, does well in road games, which is a good sign.

His negatives derive from the lack of head coaching experience: on-field disorder (clock management, time-outs, etc.), odd calls (two fullback plunges in a row yesterday, one after a time-out), lack of a personal football philosophy for the offense (he doesn't call plays himself, is heavily dependent on coordinators, of whom he's had too many). Spread offense was a no-go from the start - the players who have made it work in recent years at Florida, West Virginia, Oregon, are among the finest athletes in the nation - all speed, finesse, timing, etc. Weber wasn't up to that and there was no ground game, Weber being the lead runner and sole passer - it was too much for him. Roof and Cosgrove have done well, but offense has been terrible -Weber is not quite suited to the NFL approach, either, lacking the arm and accuracy needed (he's really a good 1AA or Division II QB). In three years, we have lacked a Big Ten running back and a real Big Ten QB - should have gone to the juco ranks, a la Bill Snyder, for those. Not playing Gray extensively in some games (SD State) is inexplicable. My guess is Gray would have helped us win the Wisconsin, Iowa and Illinois games. Jury is out whether Brew can really win in the Big Ten - next year is crucial for turning things around and another year of Weber ball won't get it done.
 

My biggest issue with Brewster is how unprepared, sloppy, undisciplined, confused & poorly coached we look week in & week out.......

If he could actually coach we could be a 9 or 10 win team this year with wins over Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin & Penn State.......

If Brewster can get it together this will be a very good program but next year will be critical for him...
 

P.S. The kicking game - has vastly improved, both kicking and receiving. This makes improvements in two sides of the Hayden Fry triangle: defense; the kicking game; offense.

Fry started with defense and the kicking game (remember Reggie Roby?); later added the final bricks - a really good passing QB and a good strong running back. The formula has worked at Iowa for 30 years. Might work here, too - Brew is two thirtds of the way there.
 

P.S. The kicking game - has vastly improved, both kicking and receiving. This makes improvements in two sides of the Hayden Fry triangle: defense; the kicking game; offense.

Fry started with defense and the kicking game (remember Reggie Roby?); later added the final bricks - a really good passing QB and a good strong running back. The formula has worked at Iowa for 30 years. Might work here, too - Brew is two thirtds of the way there.

Brew's well on his way:

#1 - He's stressed his STs/SFs from day one and it paid off big this season;

#2 - This year he's said in many interviews that he wants to build a dominant D at Minny...he's making progress;

#3 - Offense clearly a work in progress...his G HCing future depends on working that out successfully.
 

Thailleagle I have a question/request for you: Not being a jerk, but can you explain exactly how coaching cost us victories in the games you referenced. Again, I'm not trying to be a smartass, but at which points in these games would 'good' coaching have changed the outcome? How did the team look unprepared? How is that different than not executing a good plan? What I'm trying to do is start intelligent conversations about the effect of coaching on performance...it's a subject that interests me.
 

I hope Fisch learns quickly what Evertt Whithers learned after he left! You can't bring that complicated pro stuff to college kids and expect them to pick it up in 1 yr. Look at UNC def. this yr. If a college has this type of system, they very seldome play 1st or 2nd yr. players much. Thats why I like the idea that they are redshirting alot of kids. Until we start kids that have been in the system for 3+ yrs.we will struggle. Thats why we need to give TB 5 full yrs. If its not there then, he's history. But you have to give a coach 5 yrs. or it will be hard to get any good coach to come here.
 

I agree with a lot of what has been said already. The fact is Gopher football has gotten more pub in the last year or two (both locally and nationally) than in the past. It hasn't been all good publicity, but at least people are talking about Gopher football.
 

MY 1 PENNY THOUGHT COMMING FROM THE INSIDE

I often question the sanity of me posting anything on this site.... but i wrote a song about it like to hear it here it goes.........

I was not around for Glen Mason so i can not comment on what he did or did not do..... i can not comment on what was here or what was not here........

As a former coach i will offer some personal insight......

College football is all about recruiting..... In the 08 class in particular you had kids from all over the nation who could have played any where..... could have played at Michigan or oregan or west Virginia or Ohio state but they choose the key word is chose to come to Minnesota for one reason and one reason and that is who the coach is....

Second winning is about defense you can score all you want but if you cant stop anybody you still loose ask South bend..and ask Michigan ask Indiana if you don't believe me Defense will win you games and keep you in others....... seeing the margin of victory that is reflected this year in wins and losses it is plain to see that defense has been addressed in order to play defense you need big fast strong players i believe Minnesota has and is achieving that......

Third To win in college football you have to be able to run the ball......The big 12 throws the ball all over the place the pac 10 throws the ball all over the place with the exception of usc and Stanford this year but the sec and the big 10 gets to the bcs because they run the ball.... i could be wrong but to my knowledge no spread team has one the big game..... its fun to watch it puts up a bunch of points.... but old fashion defense and running the ball wins out 9 times out of 10.....

Fourth you have to have the personnel to run your system which we did not have offensively we have spread personell this year which goes back to recruting

and last in order to build a program your coach has to stay in place.. no kid is going to choose to come to a school knowing the people who recruited him is not going to be there.. and no parent wants to send their child to a place where the man who shook his hand and told him his son will be in good hands is not going to be there.....

I dont have a dog in the mason fight but if he had 10 years that is 10 recruiting classes surely it does not make any sense to fire a man after 2 classes that by all consensus is an upgrade from the past.....

Sorry to be long winded but i want to close and say these young men chose to come and add enjoyment to your saturday afternoon .. they could have gone some place else then where would you be..... we are going to a bowl.. there are 5 big 10 teams that will be sitting at home..
 

I often question the sanity of me posting anything on this site.... but i wrote a song about it like to hear it here it goes.........

I was not around for Glen Mason so i can not comment on what he did or did not do..... i can not comment on what was here or what was not here........

As a former coach i will offer some personal insight......

College football is all about recruiting..... In the 08 class in particular you had kids from all over the nation who could have played any where..... could have played at Michigan or oregan or west Virginia or Ohio state but they choose the key word is chose to come to Minnesota for one reason and one reason and that is who the coach is....
...
I dont have a dog in the mason fight but if he had 10 years that is 10 recruiting classes surely it does not make any sense to fire a man after 2 classes that by all consensus is an upgrade from the past.....

Sorry to be long winded but i want to close and say these young men chose to come and add enjoyment to your saturday afternoon .. they could have gone some place else then where would you be..... we are going to a bowl.. there are 5 big 10 teams that will be sitting at home..

Thanks for encouraging your son to select GG fb and thanks for sharing your insight...a pleasure to read some intelligent perspective from a person close to the program.
 


observations from afar

Brewsters biggest failure

1.) consistency in coordinators. you cannot expect to have success on offense changing schemes and coordinators every year. Michigan is showing how difficult it is to transfer to a spread with power run game talent. The U's problem now is that they recruited for two years preparing to be a spread and now are stuck somewhere in between. they have talent but you'd never know it because that talent isn't put in a situation to showcase it.

2.) inability to develop discipline and focus and mental toughness under duress on and off the field....biggest evidence is 3rd down conversion rates on both offense and defense. Also see...penalties and arrests....

Brewsters biggest successes

1.) Recruiting...now, coaching them up is a different story, but he's getting them to the U

2.) Scheduling...It may not look good now but... Cal, USC, Texas will all pay off in visibility for the program, if they steal ONE game from these types of games it is worth it.

3.) talking

4.) keeping his job
 

This is one of the best threads ive seen

Brewsters biggest failure

1.) consistency in coordinators. you cannot expect to have success on offense changing schemes and coordinators every year. Michigan is showing how difficult it is to transfer to a spread with power run game talent. The U's problem now is that they recruited for two years preparing to be a spread and now are stuck somewhere in between. they have talent but you'd never know it because that talent isn't put in a situation to showcase it.

2.) inability to develop discipline and focus and mental toughness under duress on and off the field....biggest evidence is 3rd down conversion rates on both offense and defense. Also see...penalties and arrests....

Brewsters biggest successes

1.) Recruiting...now, coaching them up is a different story, but he's getting them to the U



3.) talking

4.) keeping his job

With that said let me address these issue from the perspective of a football coach whose son is a product of this particular coaching staff

1 coordinators leave programs all the time for higher paying jobs lateral moves to higher profile programs... because they always wanted to work with a particular person changes in philosophy
very few coaches keep their coaching staffs in place change happens... so that is and should not be a knock on a coach.... that is just fodder for the pundits to have something to talk about because they are so called experts...

2.On the field discipline is different than off the field discipline but lets deal with on the field discipline......
Most of the penalties called this year came on judgment calls by the refs which across the college football i thought was terrible.... especially excessive celebration calls.
A 19 year old kid scores a touch down and cant hug a team mate or the mascot or raise his hands in the air spontaneously and not planned or derogatory to the other team keep your flag in your pocket.... these are college kids many of them have just been removed from the little room in the back of their parents house and mommy waking them up for breakfast they are suppose to be here to have fun.....

the off sides penalties new offense.... new assignments..... kids who have not played together or they are playing in front of 50 thousand people instead of the couple of hundred they are use to at their high school game.... once again they are kids and they will learn

Now the off the field issues i played at the college level and have been involved with the college level being fortunate enough to place kids on that level who played for me..

although we as a society like to blame somebody for something when incidents happen... We really ought to get away from blaming a coach when a young man fails to make good decisions off the field....

When a person in regular society commits a crime we do not hold the parent responsible.

college kids get drunk every week end some get in fights some end up arrested.... we don't blame the parents... we say to them you are a young adult and you have to be held responsible for your actions

I attended a meeting with my son Brewster had on off the field discipline... and they were warned if you do this then this is what to expect from me and this program i don't care how good you are this wont be tolerated...... and from what i have seem he says what he means and mean what he says

Last but not least development of players....... i am fortunate to have a front row seat and saw alot of those kids when they first came to Minnesota...... and i have developed a relationship through my son with more than a few..... trust me when i tell you skill wise strength wise speed wise.... them aint the same kids that left home

we have to be careful and not fall victim to the snowball effect...... that is when somebody says something that sounds good but has no meat behind it and it becomes a catch phrase that becomes the first thing that comes out of everybody's mouth....

so all this team undisciplined stuff last time i checked Minnesota has not dismissed a kid for discipline problems.... go talk to kiffin or Meyer or brooks or any other bcs program see how many they dismiss..... last time i checked Minnesota didn't have any kids committing armed robbery with their Minnesota gear on...

All this cant development talent stuff i will stand on a soap box and say that is a bold face lie

as a matter of fact i will go on record right now and say 010 season we upset southern cal how is that for player development

long winded again my apologizes......
 

Gopher Pops

Great insightful post re the program...please keep posting...this board needs input from those close to the program to help it keep somewhat in touch with reality.
 

I believe most thoughtful fans are in line with giving Brewster at least one more year for many of the reasons cited in this thread. I don't want that statement to be construed as a slap against those who believe Brewster should be fired, because I believe a plausible case can be made against him if you believe the record so far shows he's in over his head.

I don't think he is in over his head, but I believe a lot of this is going to boil down to how well Fisch and Davis can get that offense moving. I just think Fisch threw too much at these kids this year. Weis did the same thing at Notre Dame. These kids don't sit and watch film 20 hours a week and immerse themselves in football 24/7. Fisch and Davis need to build a strong foundation for the offense and then run the wrinkles off of that foundation as opposed to running what I would call an "Old Country Buffet" offense: a lot of stuff that is poorly prepared.

Basically, I would like to see Brewster go through 2011. Given the way college football operates, he will then have five classes that are pretty much all his within the system. Unless he totally falls flat on his face next season, I think two years is reasonable.
 

I agree with a lot of what has been said already. The fact is Gopher football has gotten more pub in the last year or two (both locally and nationally) than in the past. It hasn't been all good publicity, but at least people are talking about Gopher football.

I gotta disagree on that...

When we were pretty much "Rush Central" we got a lot of press and were constantly mentioned on ESPN & Highlights galore, since we have no identity we've basically been ignored by more national media except last year when we had a huge turnaround that eventually got written off later in the season.......
 




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