***OFFICIAL wisconsin AT MINNESOTA SENIOR NIGHT (JOHNSON'S LAST HOME GAME?) IN-GAME THREAD!!!***

[kg21]

It's truly pathetic. But it does demonstrate most Mn bb fans expectations.

yep, a poster threw last night's game away before it started, because we weren't expected to win.

If that doesn't say it all, what does?

 

[GopherPoke]

I turn that game off thinking one thing. Do the Gophers coaches watch tape of that game and wonder "maybe we should try a little of that motion concept, you know, have a guy cut to the hole every once in a while? It seems to work for them." Don't give me any excuse regarding athleticism. They were cutting with 7 footers, along with everyone else. The ONLY ones on our team who attempted to cut were Rigsby (successfully) and Asuma (unsuccessfully) and they only did it a handful of times. Five out stand around offense is used by far more than just UMN, but it is offensive regardless.

 

[Ewert86PC]

Locking down the border is what Ben was hired to do. Record aside Ben failed in what he was hired for. Zero reason to keep him another year.

Well, as he just pointed out we aren't getting the "5 star" recruits or the "4 star recruits". We are scraping lower and lower talent levels within the state. We are lucky with "4 star" recruits from out of state and that is winnowing down as we keep losing the in-state "4 star recruits".

 

[upnorthkid]

No its more than Blackwell and Tonje. Its about Mn players who are clearly legitimate BIG players who shun staying home. I would gladly take these kids as Gophers. I get it that we cant get them all but kids staying home like Asuma, Perich, etc. make a clear statement that playing for the Gophers matters. Somehow we have failed in that regard. Some one more in tune to our failure can list those who got away. I know NIL, etc is a big disparity and a significant factor in our demise.

Would it have mattered? In the scheme of things probably not. But it does send a message. Players like Asuma, Perich Lindenberg, Johnson, Gopher hockey players, ladies basketball, etc need to be commended for their loyalty. Stay home and play for the home team.

that has to do with a team that sucks (and has) coupled with poor NIL and zero history over the last 2 decades competing with a Wisconsin team who has invested in basketball and has a recent history (since these kids were alive which is all that matters) of:

since 2000 (which is a post final four season for WI btw)

Final Fours: WI 2, MN 0
NCAA tournaments WI 22 (out of 25), MN 6
Conference regular season titles WI 6, MN 0
Conference winning records WI 21 MN 3

And still, next years WI recruiting class has 8 D1 guys with 6 committed to high majors. 2 are going to WI and one has a brother on the team. Year before that had 2 high majors, 0 went to WI. Year before, 1 high major didn't go to WI.

MN recruiting had 2 high majors, neither for the Gophers. year prior had 6 and we landed 1. year prior we were 0/2.

Neither of these states is "fertile" recruiting ground year after year and the recruiting game has changed dramatically with the AAU circuits and player exposure to travelling, coaches, etc.

The longer we live in this world where we think the only way forward is to land every MN recruit the worse off we're going to be. I hope the new coach we hire moves forward with that expectation and we stop with this "one of us" type stuff in basketball. Pay the best coach you can land and invest in the team. A rocking Barn still is one of the most fun tickets in town.

 

[formerlybis]

He averages 2 points.

With Klesmit out, Janicki is the next man up. His ppg average is because he’s the 5th guard normally. He’s very serviceable as a freshman walk-on, and it wouldn’t surprise me to see him get major minutes next year with who Wisconsin graduates.

 

[upnorthkid]

With Klesmit out, Janicki is the next man up. His ppg average is because he’s the 5th guard normally. He’s very serviceable as a freshman walk-on, and it wouldn’t surprise me to see him get major minutes next year with who Wisconsin graduates.

I'm not trying to say he's not serviceable and given our lack of guards, he would definitely be one that would've been nice to have (particularly given he was comfortable redshirting last year). I'm just saying this is not like this was some massive miss as compared with say Crowl, who's been very good for 3-4 years.

If we ran a system that wasn't terrible, we'd probably make a lot more guards of his size and speed look pretty good though. He made one good looking jumper and 2 layups last night on wide open basket cuts. Can absolutely see why guys would rather go there.

 

[Bad Gopher]

Well, as he just pointed out we aren't getting the "5 star" recruits or the "4 star recruits". We are scraping lower and lower talent levels within the state. We are lucky with "4 star" recruits from out of state and that is winnowing down as we keep losing the in-state "4 star recruits".

Make no mistake, you can win with 3- and 4-star recruits. What a 5-star recruit does for you is put you in the national title conversation. For instance, when Wisconsin has had a 5-star on their roster (Brian Butch, Sam Dekker), those were the teams that were ranked in the top 5 and made a run at the championship.

What you need is good-enough talent and good-enough coaching. In our case, the former is subordinate to the latter. We have multiple 4-stars on the roster, including a high 4-star in Garcia. Greg Gard would coach this roster to a winning conference record.

 

[Bad Gopher]

I turn that game off thinking one thing. Do the Gophers coaches watch tape of that game and wonder "maybe we should try a little of that motion concept, you know, have a guy cut to the hole every once in a while? It seems to work for them." Don't give me any excuse regarding athleticism. They were cutting with 7 footers, along with everyone else. The ONLY ones on our team who attempted to cut were Rigsby (successfully) and Asuma (unsuccessfully) and they only did it a handful of times. Five out stand around offense is used by far more than just UMN, but it is offensive regardless.

This is nothing new and is discussed ad nauseum, but it does bear repeating: UW knows what they're doing, and they recruit to it. They look for size and skill (free throw shooting!) and guys who are light enough on their feet that they can be taught to play position defense. They've shown they can win that way, so they become a top choice of midwest guys with those characteristics. They have a good thing going. The good news is that it's a model that can be emulated. What you need, however, is cracker-jack coaching. Wisconsin has that.

 

[Unregistered User]

And still, next years WI recruiting class has 8 D1 guys with 6 committed to high majors. 2 are going to WI and one has a brother on the team. Year before that had 2 high majors, 0 went to WI. Year before, 1 high major didn't go to WI.

I've done that a bunch of times showing where players sign from wisconsin, iowa, and the dakotas, and posted it here.

And I also looked at more "fertile" grounds like Ohio and Virginia. Same story. Most kids want to get away.

The only states I've really seen a majority of kids staying in-state are Texas and California, and that may have to do with the sheer number of schools in each state.

But no one listens...

 

[MaxyJR1]

Maybe an 18 year kid just wants to try something else? I just don't understand why we still care so much about this "locking down the border".

Wisconsin hasn't drawn away the elite NBA level Minnesota kids like Suggs/Jones/Holmgren. They have pulled kids like Crowl/Illikainen/Wahl/Winter that develop into nice players but primarily because Wisconsin does a far better job developing players and their offensive/defensive sets just look so much better than what we throw out there. How many wide open lay-ups and dunks did Wisconsin have last night? Gard >>>> Johnson. It really starts there. It's not because Crowl "shunned" Minnesota. Minnesota provincialism is what got us Ben Johnson.

Locking the boarders is not a thing for any school or any state in college basketball. It’s a made up storyline. Year in and year out the top players don’t stay home in most states.

 

[Blizzard]

Someone would have to explain to me like I'm a 6 year old:

that has to do with a team that sucks (and has) coupled with poor NIL and zero history over the last 2 decades competing with a Wisconsin team who has invested in basketball and has a recent history (since these kids were alive which is all that matters) of:

since 2000 (which is a post final four season for WI btw)

Final Fours: WI 2, MN 0
NCAA tournaments WI 22 (out of 25), MN 6
Conference regular season titles WI 6, MN 0
Conference winning records WI 21 MN 3

And still, next years WI recruiting class has 8 D1 guys with 6 committed to high majors. 2 are going to WI and one has a brother on the team. Year before that had 2 high majors, 0 went to WI. Year before, 1 high major didn't go to WI.

MN recruiting had 2 high majors, neither for the Gophers. year prior had 6 and we landed 1. year prior we were 0/2.

Why people think we're some sort of an elite program that a coach would desire to come to. It is really too bad about Johnson. It seems to me that he would be invested in the long term success of the basketball program unlike others who would use this as another jumping point.

 

[CentralGopher]

Locking the boarders is not a thing for any school or any state in college basketball. It’s a made up storyline. Year in and year out the top players don’t stay home in most states.

I don’t disagree. Ben’s relationship with AAU was a big reason he was hired since Pitino did not have a good one with them. The hope was Ben could do much better with local recruits and unfortunately that has been a failure thus far.