***OFFICIAL wisconsin AT MINNESOTA SENIOR NIGHT IN-GAME THREAD!!!***

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UpAndUnder43 said:
My biggest concern with this group of freshman and all incoming freshman is that the coaching staff will need to bring in players greater than our conference competitors because there is no reason to believe they’ll be coached as well as the kids at Purdue, Illinois, Rutgers, Ohio St, wisconsin, Iowa, etc
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100%. If you’re Mark Coyle evaluating Ben after the season, what do you honestly think the ceiling is with this staff?
 

skiumah1 said:
100%. If you’re Mark Coyle evaluating Ben after the season, what do you honestly think the ceiling is with this staff?
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I'll put it this way. On our walk back to the parking ramp tonight, one of my season ticket mates--who was also a women's BB season ticket holder for several years--gave me a good justification for firing Whalen now and not giving her another year: not enough signs of improvement through the season, either individually or as a team. As she said that, I became convinced that that's why Coyle made the move. Even if you brought her back next year and all the current players stay and the incomers stay committed, what realistic hope do you have that they'll grow and improve any more in the next year than this team did during the course of this past season?

Where I'm going with this: if I'm right and Coyle is making decisions on that kind of basis, then he is definitely evaluating in-game coaching like tonight's many head scratchers and asking the question: is granting another year or two or three going to make Ben and his staff that much better tactically and strategically? The errors we saw tonight aren't rocket science. The Gophers coaches might have been the only people in that arena who didn't know they needed to adjust in a very basic way (or at least mix it up from possession to possession to keep the opponent off balance).
 

Bad Gopher said:
I'll put it this way. On our walk back to the parking ramp tonight, one of my season ticket mates--who was also a women's BB season ticket holder for several years--gave me a good justification for firing Whalen now and not giving her another year: not enough signs of improvement through the season, either individually or as a team. As she said that, I became convinced that that's why Coyle made the move. Even if you brought her back next year and all the current players stay and the incomers stay committed, what realistic hope do you have that they'll grow and improve any more in the next year than this team did during the course of this past season?

Where I'm going with this: if I'm right and Coyle is making decisions on that kind of basis, then he is definitely evaluating in-game coaching like tonight's many head scratchers and asking the question: is granting another year or two or three going to make Ben and his staff that much better tactically and strategically? The errors we saw tonight aren't rocket science. The Gophers coaches might have been the only people in that arena who didn't know they needed to adjust in a very basic way (or at least mix it up from possession to possession to keep the opponent off balance).
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Could be 100% correct, but Coyle will never get Gable and the regents' permission to cut an $8M buyout check. Just that simple.

And we don't have boosters who are willing to foot that bill.
 


Johnson will get at least two more years to show that he can recruit and coach MN into a competitive team.
The buy out is too big right now and it gives the AD a bad rep to fire coaches too soon after they were hired.
 

Bad Gopher said:
I'll put it this way. On our walk back to the parking ramp tonight, one of my season ticket mates--who was also a women's BB season ticket holder for several years--gave me a good justification for firing Whalen now and not giving her another year: not enough signs of improvement through the season, either individually or as a team. As she said that, I became convinced that that's why Coyle made the move. Even if you brought her back next year and all the current players stay and the incomers stay committed, what realistic hope do you have that they'll grow and improve any more in the next year than this team did during the course of this past season?

Where I'm going with this: if I'm right and Coyle is making decisions on that kind of basis, then he is definitely evaluating in-game coaching like tonight's many head scratchers and asking the question: is granting another year or two or three going to make Ben and his staff that much better tactically and strategically? The errors we saw tonight aren't rocket science. The Gophers coaches might have been the only people in that arena who didn't know they needed to adjust in a very basic way (or at least mix it up from possession to possession to keep the opponent off balance).
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I see a lot of crap coaching on the other teams, too.

Rutgers blew a 10 point lead with a little over a minute to go and didn't guard the ball on the last play.

Hell, Gaard's team tried to give it to us over and over and over last night. We had Battle at the line to tie it up for peete's sake.

I really don't think Ben coaches that badly, he is just outmanned by a lot most nights.
 

Gophers_4life said:
Could be 100% correct, but Coyle will never get Gable and the regents' permission to cut an $8M buyout check. Just that simple.

And we don't have boosters who are willing to foot that bill.
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Yep- this is a 12-13 million dollar problem this year - 8 mil for Ben and 4-5 mil for a big time coach to turn it. If you aren't going big- skip it.
 

Plato said:
Johnson will get at least two more years to show that he can recruit and coach MN into a competitive team.
The buy out is too big right now and it gives the AD a bad rep to fire coaches too soon after they were hired.
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I have been thinking along these lines, but now I think he needs 7 wins in the Big Ten minimum this coming year to save his job. Not a high bar but it is going to take a lot of improvement to get there.
 



bga1 said:
I have been thinking along these lines, but now I think he needs 7 wins in the Big Ten minimum this coming year to save his job. Not a high bar but it is going to take a lot of improvement to get there.
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Another requirement for Johnson might be to get the MN fans back.
From what I could see and hear on TV there must have been a large number of WI fans at the game last night.
That is a bit embarrassing.
 

Bad Gopher said:
I'll put it this way. On our walk back to the parking ramp tonight, one of my season ticket mates--who was also a women's BB season ticket holder for several years--gave me a good justification for firing Whalen now and not giving her another year: not enough signs of improvement through the season, either individually or as a team. As she said that, I became convinced that that's why Coyle made the move. Even if you brought her back next year and all the current players stay and the incomers stay committed, what realistic hope do you have that they'll grow and improve any more in the next year than this team did during the course of this past season?

Where I'm going with this: if I'm right and Coyle is making decisions on that kind of basis, then he is definitely evaluating in-game coaching like tonight's many head scratchers and asking the question: is granting another year or two or three going to make Ben and his staff that much better tactically and strategically? The errors we saw tonight aren't rocket science. The Gophers coaches might have been the only people in that arena who didn't know they needed to adjust in a very basic way (or at least mix it up from possession to possession to keep the opponent off balance).
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Once I accepted we would suck this year, I fully expected we would see improvement throughout the year. I thought by the end of the year, even with a whole bunch of losses, I would be optimistic about the future.

That did not happen. Johnson is not the right guy.
 

Wasn't excited when they hired Johnson, but I bought into the recruiting the local talent angle and figured, "What the hell. Worth a try." My big worry was if it was a poor start and then the hole would be too deep to really dig out of after 5 or 6 years. Little did I think the hole would be so deep that you couldn't see over the top after two years.

I'm a guy who has only a basic knowledge of basketball and was continually swearing because Wahl and Crowl were allowed to do the same thing over and over. It was so painfully obvious the Gophers needed to switch things up. What is Thorson's role? Isn't he also the defensive genius hired to bring maturity and lend sage advice?
 





WilliamsArenaGuy said:
Once I accepted we would suck this year, I fully expected we would see improvement throughout the year. I thought by the end of the year, even with a whole bunch of losses, I would be optimistic about the future.

That did not happen. Johnson is not the right guy.
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Clearly you choose to stick your head in the sand as there has been a solid improvement from all our freshmen.

You are free to your opinion, but I find your opinion unhelpful.
 


bga1 said:
Yep- this is a 12-13 million dollar problem this year - 8 mil for Ben and 4-5 mil for a big time coach to turn it. If you aren't going big- skip it.
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Would be #3 in the conference salarywise. and like #6-7 in college basketball. Do you honestly think one of the top ten BBall HCs would come here if the U is willing to pay?
 

MennoSota said:
You are both the pot and the kettle, along with a handful of wet blankets who make up the Debbie Downer club.
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I'm not blaming fans for the program's struggle, pretty much only you are doing that. Everyone is just calling it as they see it, which isn't pretty because they just finished with a 2-17 conference record. You will insult any poster you disagree with or dislike even if their point is valid. You are very quick to insult players/admin you don't like (i.e. TT as Gumby/Coyle the snake) but don't like it when other posters make valid criticism of Ben's coaching. I don't believe I have levied a personal insult to Ben or any member of this team. I only provide feedback on what I see on the court. I have stated many times that I like the players Ben has brought in, I just do not agree with how they are being used or coached on the floor. You rarely have counter points to offer for any valuable discourse since you would prefer to call people debbie downers or some other lame insult that makes you feel superior. I give credit where it is due and criticize where I see fit. You often times just come off as a sanctimonious, sad old man. I am glad that is working for you though, go Gophers!
 

Garyisawinner said:
If you don’t double in the post you make Crowl and Wahl look like superstars. I do not understand the defense.
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The two times that I remember a concerted obvious attempt to double, Wisconsin kicked it back out and hit open 3's.

Two things, someone that can elevate and change the shot inside would have helped especially against Wahl, in my mind having someone like Ihnen would have helped, a coupe of blocked shots and it changes Wahl's perspective, secondly the refs allowed Crowl and Wahl to back in indiscriminately but called a foul right away when the defense pushed back. That game really gave me an idea of how someone like Even's could change the outcome.
 

I dont like to point fingers but what is the teams records when Stan starts the in-game thread? Are we looking to a wholesale change? Do we give him another year and see if he improves? Just some soon-to-be off-season stuff we can discuss.
 


jovs said:
The two times that I remember a concerted obvious attempt to double, Wisconsin kicked it back out and hit open 3's.

Two things, someone that can elevate and change the shot inside would have helped especially against Wahl, in my mind having someone like Ihnen would have helped, a coupe of blocked shots and it changes Wahl's perspective, secondly the refs allowed Crowl and Wahl to back in indiscriminately but called a foul right away when the defense pushed back. That game really gave me an idea of how someone like Even's could change the outcome.
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II wouldnt have done any better than Garcia.
 


PMWinSTP said:
Would be #3 in the conference salarywise. and like #6-7 in college basketball. Do you honestly think one of the top ten BBall HCs would come here if the U is willing to pay?
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Well- I think it's a moot point because A) I just don't think Gabel would allow Ben to get fired yet and B) I don't think the U would cough up that kind of money to fix the basketball situation. You really have to value something to spend that kind of money. I was advocating Mussy a couple years ago and people said it would take 5 million/yr. That looks like a good investment looking back on it now. He would have listened but no one ever called his agent. Instead we checked a box and found a guy who got turned down for a 700k job and paid him 2 mil.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
I dont like to point fingers but what is the teams records when Stan starts the in-game thread? Are we looking to a wholesale change? Do we give him another year and see if he improves? Just some soon-to-be off-season stuff we can discuss.
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All I know is my threads can't make free throws for the boys! And if you ask me, it seems as if we stopped the big push sometime around early December, so I think the big push posters deserve some of the heat as well. I'll change my best, I'll start a bit earlier next season, maybe throw in a few extra exclamation points for the GEDJ portion of the post. I'm not above self improvement.
 

GopherBlood666 said:
I'm not blaming fans for the program's struggle, pretty much only you are doing that. Everyone is just calling it as they see it, which isn't pretty because they just finished with a 2-17 conference record. You will insult any poster you disagree with or dislike even if their point is valid. You are very quick to insult players/admin you don't like (i.e. TT as Gumby/Coyle the snake) but don't like it when other posters make valid criticism of Ben's coaching. I don't believe I have levied a personal insult to Ben or any member of this team. I only provide feedback on what I see on the court. I have stated many times that I like the players Ben has brought in, I just do not agree with how they are being used or coached on the floor. You rarely have counter points to offer for any valuable discourse since you would prefer to call people debbie downers or some other lame insult that makes you feel superior. I give credit where it is due and criticize where I see fit. You often times just come off as a sanctimonious, sad old man. I am glad that is working for you though, go Gophers!
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I simply blame you for being an asshat.
 


Plato said:
Another requirement for Johnson might be to get the MN fans back.
From what I could see and hear on TV there must have been a large number of WI fans at the game last night.
That is a bit embarrassing.
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Ben is not PJ. His personality is not one that is marketable. Ben cares little about self appearance and energy.
 


Plato said:
Another requirement for Johnson might be to get the MN fans back.
From what I could see and hear on TV there must have been a large number of WI fans at the game last night.
That is a bit embarrassing.
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There is always a lot of wisco fans at the barn. There just wasn’t many gopher fans this time.
 

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