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PhiloVance said:
Name the last 2 B1G coaches who were never a head coach at another program.
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What is....things that don't matter.

And Izzo was never a head coach prior to taking over at MSU. I'm sure you have issues with that?
 

on TT, my opinion has not changed. He has some potential - but RIGHT NOW, he couldn't guard a wooden Indian. Apparently his prep school program was "defense optional."

The Gophers need to bring in a post player through the portal. I don't care if they score a single point - just find a guy with some size and beef who can rebound and play interior defense.
 


RogueGopher said:
I can name 6

Juwan Howard
Micah Shrewsberry
Ben Johnson
Tom Izzo
Greg Gard
Chris Collins
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I simply don't understand people who keep making the argument that Johnson was/is the wrong hire because he was never a head coach. That isn't a prerequisite to understanding the game. Mark Few is another guy who has had enormous success despite never being a head coach prior to taking over at Gonzaga.
 


stocker08 said:
I simply don't understand people who keep making the argument that Johnson was/is the wrong hire because he was never a head coach. That isn't a prerequisite to understanding the game. Mark Few is another guy who has had enormous success despite never being a head coach prior to taking over at Gonzaga.
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I'm not disagreeing about Johnson or Assistants can have success. I think the counter-argument on this for me is that your minimizing risk by hiring a guy that's already had success as a HC. You've seen him do it. Granted that doesn't mean he'll be able to do it in the Big 10.

Just seems like more risk when hiring a first-timer. They'll always be exceptions to the rule though.

I could even be wrong about that and maybe the data doesn't back that up.
 

stocker08 said:
I simply don't understand people who keep making the argument that Johnson was/is the wrong hire because he was never a head coach. That isn't a prerequisite to understanding the game. Mark Few is another guy who has had enormous success despite never being a head coach prior to taking over at Gonzaga.
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You are not wrong in what you say. That said- a prior track record can buy you time, create excitement and kick start recruiting. The more dire straits a program is in, the more it helps to be a big name hire. That's why they get paid so much.
 

RogueGopher said:
I can name 6

Juwan Howard - got a successful program
Micah Shrewsberry - jury out
Ben Johnson - jury out
Tom Izzo - got a pretty successful program
Greg Gard - got a successful program
Chris Collins- has struggled
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It's much, much easier to come in with zero HC experience if you are picking up on a successful program.
 

skiumah1 said:
I'm not disagreeing about Johnson or Assistants can have success. I think the counter-argument on this for me is that your minimizing risk by hiring a guy that's already had success as a HC. You've seen him do it. Granted that doesn't mean he'll be able to do it in the Big 10.

Just seems like more risk when hiring a first-timer. They'll always be exceptions to the rule though.

I could even be wrong about that and maybe the data doesn't back that up.
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bga1 said:
You are not wrong in what you say. That said- a prior track record can buy you time, create excitement and kick start recruiting. The more dire straits a program is in, the more it helps to be a big name hire. That's why they get paid so much.
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I 100% agree with both of you. I'm not trying to say that hiring Johnson instead of a proven coach was the right thing to do. What I'm saying is that the naysayers have zero idea what kind of success Johnson can have here.

We've gone the route of the big name hire in Tubby Smith. Even Pitino was a "name". Excitement is great and all.....but results are what matter. From a talent and depth standpoint....the Gophers are far and away at the bottom of the Big Ten right now. Somehow Johnson has managed to work with what he has and put together a team that, while overmatched a lot of the time, has managed to play together in a way that can net us some wins that on paper....we shouldn't be winning.

I'm very excited to see what he can do with a roster of Big Ten caliber players. And even though this season has been a bad one in the W/L column.....I really appreciate seeing what this underdog team has been able to accomplish. And being a first time season ticker holder......seeing fans stand and applaud the team after a hard fought loss....indicates that I'm not the only one.
 



stocker08 said:
What is....things that don't matter.

And Izzo was never a head coach prior to taking over at MSU. I'm sure you have issues with that?
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He actually had 2 years of head coaching b4 becoming an assistant at Northern Michigan.
 


PhiloVance said:
Name the last 2 B1G coaches who were never a head coach at another program.
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PhiloVance said:
He actually had 2 years of head coaching b4 becoming an assistant at Northern Michigan.
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PhiloVance said:
Izzo and Micah both were head coaches prior to their current jobs according to Wikipedia.
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Which programs? Oh....high school? lol. Assistant experience at the college level is far more valuable. Neither had college head coaching experience.

Same situation as Johnson.
 

stocker08 said:
Which programs? Oh....high school? lol. Assistant experience at the college level is far more valuable. Neither had college head coaching experience.

Same situation as Johnson.
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Didn't ask if he had college head coaching experience.

We'd be so lucky if Johnson has the success Izzo has had.
 



PhiloVance said:
Didn't ask if he had college head coaching experience.

We'd be so lucky if Johnson has the success Izzo has had.
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Well you said "head coach at another program". Never heard a high school team referred to as a "program".
 

PhiloVance said:
Izzo and Micah both were head coaches prior to their current jobs according to Wikipedia.
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Oh, well I guess I just assumed you were not counting High School and NAIA jobs.

If only BJ had 1 or 2 years at some random HS...
 
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stocker08 said:
Completely disagree. Curry has been either the third or fourth best player on this team. His play won us the Penn State game this past Saturday and kept us in both games against MSU. Realistically.....what a lot of people are saying is that....without seeing them play.....that Ihnen, Fox, and a true freshman are better than Curry. I think people are guessing. And unless TT puts on a lot of weight and muscle during the offseason.....or Johnson finds a serviceable center in the portal (you guys want another Charlie Daniels?)....you are all calling for the biggest guy on our team to move on.

Sure....let's make our front court even smaller!
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I would say that if Curry were to come back to help the team by playing a reserve role it wouldn't be the worst thing, but only if it wasn't keeping a scholarship away from a possible newcomer. In terms of comparing Curry with Payne (I've seen both of them play many times), Payne is a more skilled scorer inside, has a stronger lower body, is a better passer, is more athletic, protects the rim better, rebounds better, etc. Yes, he's playing against high schoolers, but those skills aren't going away.
 

Formerswish said:
I would say that if Curry were to come back to help the team by playing a reserve role it wouldn't be the worst thing, but only if it wasn't keeping a scholarship away from a possible newcomer. In terms of comparing Curry with Payne (I've seen both of them play many times), Payne is a more skilled scorer inside, has a stronger lower body, is a better passer, is more athletic, protects the rim better, rebounds better, etc. Yes, he's playing against high schoolers, but those skills aren't going away.
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You are making comparisons in which one guy is playing against Big Ten talent and the other is playing against high school opposition.....most of whom will not sniff D1 college basketball.
 

stocker08 said:
You are making comparisons in which one guy is playing against Big Ten talent and the other is playing against high school opposition.....most of whom will not sniff D1 college basketball.
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If Johnson recruits aren’t better than curry we should just fire Johnson now
 

Some guy said:
If Johnson recruits aren’t better than curry we should just fire Johnson now
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To be clear, you are referring to the Curry of today after numerous surgeries, right? Curry before the surgeries had a chance to be a very strong B1G player. That said, even the medically-enhanced Curry just led us to a win in the previous game against PSU with 20 pts and has been surprisingly serviceable after coming out of retirement to help a horribly undersized team. This young man deserves some praise.
 

ecoperson said:
To be clear, you are referring to the Curry of today after numerous surgeries, right? Curry before the surgeries had a chance to be a very strong B1G player. That said, even the medically-enhanced Curry just led us to a win in the previous game against PSU with 20 pts and has been surprisingly serviceable after coming out of retirement to help a horribly undersized team. This young man deserves some praise.
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Correct

the post I was responding to implied we have no idea if Payne is going to be more talented at the big ten level than curry is presently
 

Some guy said:
Correct

the post I was responding to implied we have no idea if Payne is going to be more talented at the big ten level than curry is presently
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If we put him in games right now? Probably not.
 


Some guy said:
If he isn’t better than curry next year, the Johnson tenure won’t be more than 3 seasons
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I think that is unrealistic expectations for Payne. He is a young big who I understood hasn't been playing the game that long. Bigs almost always take some time to develop and for the game to slow down for them. I imagine that there will be some growing pains with him.

I would love to be wrong but I highly doubt that Payne will score 20+ in any game next season. I also question whether he will average 8 ppg/5.8 rpg like Curry this season. This is why recruiting another big in the portal is so important.
 

ecoperson said:
I think that is unrealistic expectations for Payne. He is a young big who I understood hasn't been playing the game that long. Bigs almost always take some time to develop and for the game to slow down for them. I imagine that there will be some growing pains with him.

I would love to be wrong but I highly doubt that Payne will score 20+ in any game next season. I also question whether he will average 8 ppg/5.8 rpg like Curry this season. This is why recruiting another big in the portal is so important.
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Well, if Johnson’s recruits aren’t impact recruits I will prepare for more bottom 4 conference seasons. I have no idea how good he will be, I’ve never seen him play. But if recruits arent good, we will lose a lot of games. That will lead to a short tenure
 

Some guy said:
Well, if Johnson’s recruits aren’t impact recruits I will prepare for more bottom 4 conference seasons. I have no idea how good he will be, I’ve never seen him play. But if recruits arent good, we will lose a lot of games. That will lead to a short tenure
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The guys BJ has coming in are all look like solid prospects, but none of them are blue chip All-American can't miss type talents. The reality is that it may take all of them some time to acclimate to the college game, especially the forwards.

I know we all want guys to step on the court as true freshman and be finished products that but isn't fair to the recruit or the coaching staff.

We should have more overall depth and big ten level talent on the roster next year. That alone should translate to more wins, how many more remains to be seen.
 

Some guy said:
Well, if Johnson’s recruits aren’t impact recruits I will prepare for more bottom 4 conference seasons. I have no idea how good he will be, I’ve never seen him play. But if recruits arent good, we will lose a lot of games. That will lead to a short tenure
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He will be given at least 5 years. My god, the last guy was given forever. I like what i see so far. He had about 10 minutes to put this roster together but has established some very important things. One is character and values. They are so limited by talent right now.
 

MNVCGUY said:
The guys BJ has coming in are all look like solid prospects, but none of them are blue chip All-American can't miss type talents. The reality is that it may take all of them some time to acclimate to the college game, especially the forwards.

I know we all want guys to step on the court as true freshman and be finished products that but isn't fair to the recruit or the coaching staff.

We should have more overall depth and big ten level talent on the roster next year. That alone should translate to more wins, how many more remains to be seen.
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If the talent isn’t better from recruiting the Johnson tenure will be short.
I am unsure how that is controversial
 

builtbadgers said:
He will be given at least 5 years. My god, the last guy was given forever. I like what i see so far. He had about 10 minutes to put this roster together but has established some very important things. One is character and values. They are so limited by talent right now.
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I do too. If team is bottom 4 3 years in a row he probably shouldn’t be given 5 years but might be
 

Some guy said:
I do too. If team is bottom 4 3 years in a row he probably shouldn’t be given 5 years but might be
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This team has already exceeded everyone's expectations this year, has a good recruiting class coming in next year and from what I'm hearing will probably have an even better one the year after that. Give it a rest.

How's Utah doing?
 

Some guy said:
If Johnson recruits aren’t better than curry we should just fire Johnson now
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Read below

ecoperson said:
To be clear, you are referring to the Curry of today after numerous surgeries, right? Curry before the surgeries had a chance to be a very strong B1G player. That said, even the medically-enhanced Curry just led us to a win in the previous game against PSU with 20 pts and has been surprisingly serviceable after coming out of retirement to help a horribly undersized team. This young man deserves some praise.
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I would be VERY surprised if Payne as a true freshman plays better than Curry has this year. I simply cannot understand the hatred that Curry attracts on this board.
 

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