***OFFICIAL MINNESOTA AT MARYLAND IN-GAME THREAD!!!***

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howeda7 said:
Maybe. But it feels like I'm hearing "Ben is justified in not playing him" and "he's not transferring, he has a bright future here." I don't think both of these can be true.

In games, which is all we have to go off of, he's better than CD or Ogele. He was good enough to play 40 minutes against Rutgers and score 10 points. But now he's not good enough to play more than 3 minutes against Maryland, even with Curry out. Sorry there's no logic there.
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I think sometimes it’s about matchups especially with a player without much experience. He may have been a better fit for the defensive plan against Rutgers than he was last night.
 

howeda7 said:
Maybe. But it feels like I'm hearing "Ben is justified in not playing him" and "he's not transferring, he has a bright future here." I don't think both of these can be true.

In games, which is all we have to go off of, he's better than CD or Ogele. He was good enough to play 40 minutes against Rutgers and score 10 points. But now he's not good enough to play more than 3 minutes against Maryland, even with Curry out. Sorry there's no logic there.
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To your first paragraph, they can both be true. Right now the skills TT do not match well with the available minutes. This team is solid on the perimeter at both ends of the floor. What it lacks is a physical presence down low, which Curry provides and Daniels can for very short stretches. TT isn't strong enough to handle down low and right now doesn't have the foot speed to keep up with people. He was woefully slow to react to rebounding the ball on the Maryland misses. He needs strength and will gain that in the offseason.

Against Rutgers he played due to others being out. We played almost exclusively zone, which Rutgers didn't have to to prepare for. They also shot poorly that night and that allowed us to stay in it. Last night, even when we switched to a zone, Maryland was scoring. He got in, didn't do anything on the offensive end - as stated above was passive on the defensive end and thus got taken out. Don't see anything wrong with how the minutes were handled.
 

howeda7 said:
Maybe. But it feels like I'm hearing "Ben is justified in not playing him" and "he's not transferring, he has a bright future here." I don't think both of these can be true.

In games, which is all we have to go off of, he's better than CD or Ogele. He was good enough to play 40 minutes against Rutgers and score 10 points. But now he's not good enough to play more than 3 minutes against Maryland, even with Curry out. Sorry there's no logic there.
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Totally agree. Johnsons logic along with many on this board does not make any sense. Playing TT and Thiam 10-15 minutes per game regardless should have been a priority so they can gain experience playing against Big Ten competition. That can not be accomplished through practice. Having that experience was critical because next year the incoming freshman, however talented they are supposed to be, will be deer in the headlights when it comes to playing in the Big Ten. They need people that have experience and other than Battle, they will have none thanks to Johnson.

It made no sense to play CD or Ogele other than sporadic minutes. TT should have gotten all the minutes last night even if it would have led to poor defense as some people suggest ...and I totally disagree. He would adapt and learn and offer some resistance at the rim. AND possibly get a rebound. I know he missed a couple but that is all you a-holes focus on. He needs to be in there more than 3 minutes and allow him to get that experience so he understands the competition he is up against and adapt. He is a talented player as has been said by many (Bardo mentioned it last night) but he needs time to develop and that experience is critical.
 

topos said:
Sutherlin picked up the Curry slack and was easily the best option to do so (undersized or not). TT's toughness isn't in the same universe as Sutherlin's.

TT's development doesn't hinge on playing more minutes in a lost season bombing 3s. It hinges on gaining 35 pounds, watching film, and learning to play/defend under the basket.
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He'd been playing 3A high school ball, and now he's trying to function in the Big Ten. That's quite a leap, especially for a big man. He does have a lot to learn.

I remember when John Thomas came out of Roosevelt. He'd had his way with his opponents at that level and didn't really have to learn how to play, especially how to use his body down low. His freshman year, my reaction was, this guy isn't as good as he was advertised. Of course by his senior year he was starting on a national title contender. These things do take time.
 


swanyj said:
Totally agree. Johnsons logic along with many on this board does not make any sense. Playing TT and Thiam 10-15 minutes per game regardless should have been a priority so they can gain experience playing against Big Ten competition. That can not be accomplished through practice. Having that experience was critical because next year the incoming freshman, however talented they are supposed to be, will be deer in the headlights when it comes to playing in the Big Ten. They need people that have experience and other than Battle, they will have none thanks to Johnson.

It made no sense to play CD or Ogele other than sporadic minutes. TT should have gotten all the minutes last night even if it would have led to poor defense as some people suggest ...and I totally disagree. He would adapt and learn and offer some resistance at the rim. AND possibly get a rebound. I know he missed a couple but that is all you a-holes focus on. He needs to be in there more than 3 minutes and allow him to get that experience so he understands the competition he is up against and adapt. He is a talented player as has been said by many (Bardo mentioned it last night) but he needs time to develop and that experience is critical.
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Coming into this season we had 1 returner, yet they found guys with experience in Battle, Willis, Sutherlin, Loewe, Stephens. Next year we aren't locked into only have the freshmen, TT, Thiam, and Battle.

Don't like making a comparison, but look at Crowl. He ave. less minutes a game last year for Wisconsin than what TT has for us, yet he has been a major contributor for them this season.
 

WriterGoph said:
So Colorado is better than Arizona because they bear them?

Pretty sure the body of the work of the entire season is how they figure these things out.
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If I had to bet on the game, I’d bet on Nebraska to win. Not everyone shares your opinion. It’s OK!
 

Letting the past players walk was a strategy by the coaching staff to get a free pass on year one. Next year is year two
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
It's pretty delusional to say Parker will provide no offense when he averaged 23 and 10 at the D2 level. Creighton has a D2 transfer who Parker dominated who averaged similar stats and he's averaging 15 on an NCAA tournament team.
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Parker isn’t an offensive juggernaut. Look at where his points came from.
 



howeda7 said:
Maybe. But it feels like I'm hearing "Ben is justified in not playing him" and "he's not transferring, he has a bright future here." I don't think both of these can be true.

In games, which is all we have to go off of, he's better than CD or Ogele. He was good enough to play 40 minutes against Rutgers and score 10 points. But now he's not good enough to play more than 3 minutes against Maryland, even with Curry out. Sorry there's no logic there.
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in a word -- matchups.

Granted, the Gophers were forced to play TT vs Rutgers due to circumstances, but I also believe that TT had success against Rutgers because his skill set - at its current level - is a better matchup against Rutgers.

against different teams, with different players and schemes, the matchups do not favor TT.

If Johnson truly believed that TT "should" be playing based on merit, he would be playing.

the alternative is to believe that Johnson would sabotage his own team due to some petty reason, which I just don't buy.

And - Johnson is not the only coach. If Thorson or one of the other assistants really believed that TT should be playing more, don't you think that would make a difference?
 

MNVCGUY said:
Have enjoyed this season and watching this team way more than I thought I was going to heading into the season with what was left on the roster.
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That's probably somewhat true for most dedicated fans but that's also rather faint praise.

We saw some really good ball movement and team guard play this year. Unfortunately, at least 3 of those guards will not be around next year (I'm not sure about Sutherlin). Hopefully Ben can recruit a couple of transfer guards of at least comparable quality.

We saw some of the worst front court play imaginable for this level of college basketball. Any team with significant strength there could eat us alive. The good thing is that next year could only be better. Perhaps getting exposed in the front court so badly this year will cause long term determination for Ben never to let this happen again.

We have Battle coming back and for that we should be very grateful. Getting 39 points in a game is a rare occurrence for a Gopher. When he's on, he's pretty amazing.

We have four freshman coming in next year. I don't see how they could avoid giving us more than this year's freshmen (Thompson and Thiam).
 

swanyj said:
Totally agree. Johnsons logic along with many on this board does not make any sense. Playing TT and Thiam 10-15 minutes per game regardless should have been a priority so they can gain experience playing against Big Ten competition. That can not be accomplished through practice. Having that experience was critical because next year the incoming freshman, however talented they are supposed to be, will be deer in the headlights when it comes to playing in the Big Ten. They need people that have experience and other than Battle, they will have none thanks to Johnson.

It made no sense to play CD or Ogele other than sporadic minutes. TT should have gotten all the minutes last night even if it would have led to poor defense as some people suggest ...and I totally disagree. He would adapt and learn and offer some resistance at the rim. AND possibly get a rebound. I know he missed a couple but that is all you a-holes focus on. He needs to be in there more than 3 minutes and allow him to get that experience so he understands the competition he is up against and adapt. He is a talented player as has been said by many (Bardo mentioned it last night) but he needs time to develop and that experience is critical.
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I totally get why on the surface it is hard to understand the logic behind the decisions coaches make and it gets frustrating because they don't just come out and tell us everything they are thinking.

But common sense would say that if they aren't playing a guy there is probably a good reason for it. We were clearly hurting big time from a size standpoint last night and yet TT stayed on the bench. Johnson and Thorson have been around basketball a long time, pretty sure they have a good grasp on the game, so the fact that they left TT on the bench in a close game tells me they didn't believe he would be an upgrade over whatever we did have on the court at the time.

Fans may not like the decisions, but I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the guys who are working with the roster on a daily basis to know best how to deploy the limited resources that they have available.
 

MNVCGUY said:
I totally get why on the surface it is hard to understand the logic behind the decisions coaches make and it gets frustrating because they don't just come out and tell us everything they are thinking.

But common sense would say that if they aren't playing a guy there is probably a good reason for it. We were clearly hurting big time from a size standpoint last night and yet TT stayed on the bench. Johnson and Thorson have been around basketball a long time, pretty sure they have a good grasp on the game, so the fact that they left TT on the bench in a close game tells me they didn't believe he would be an upgrade over whatever we did have on the court at the time.

Fans may not like the decisions, but I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the guys who are working with the roster on a daily basis to know best how to deploy the limited resources that they have available.
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I understand what you are saying but the issue is not if he was an upgrade to what was on the court (which he is...Daniels and Ogele suck), it is about gaining that critical experience. Those two guys NEVER should have played last night other than to give a breather to TT. If Johnson wants to play without a big, that was his strategy, but playing two inferior players who will be gone next year, over TT is nuts! Those 16 minutes should have gone to TT.

And once again, he plays 3 guys 40 minutes, and all sucking wind late in the game. All of this is eerily familiar to the crap Pitino did while he was here and I am afraid we are going to end up with the same results. Although I have to admit that Johnson/Thorson have a better plan for the games, they are copying some of the same problems of Pitino and that is what is frustrating.
 



UpAndUnder43 said:
If I had to bet on the game, I’d bet on Nebraska to win. Not everyone shares your opinion. It’s OK!
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Your opinion is one thing, but saying that standings in a conference are not facts is another.

You didn't say "I think Nebraska would beat Minnesota". You said the Gophers are last in the conference because they lost one head-to-head game.

So I guess St. Mary's is better than Gonzaga right now.
 

In a rebuilding season in which they are now 4-15 in B1G play, giving TT and Thiam some minutes will help their development for next season. Game experience cannot be duplicated by practice. Let them fail and learn from and play thru their mistakes this year instead of next year. Put TT on the blocks or run a high low with him that they used a few games ago a few times. Have Thiam cut to the hoop or come off a screen. Give them a chance to succeed.

Of the 5 players that played most of the game, all of those players will be gone in 2-3 more games, except for JB. Additionally, Curry, CD, and Ogele will be gone. Give the kids 7-10 min a game now.

To me, Ben seems to be of Thibs and Zim mindset, perhaps Whalen too. He has too short of leash on his young players.

Ben is not going to be judged on how he does this season, but rather on the trajectory of the program in years 3+.

They have 4 young players incoming next year and 7 outgoing 5th year seniors. I would hope the 2-4 transfers in are not 5th year seniors again. I would hate to see a repeat of this season. Let the development for next year start now. It is only 2 players to mix in for limited stretches.
 

WriterGoph said:
Your opinion is one thing, but saying that standings in a conference are not facts is another.

You didn't say "I think Nebraska would beat Minnesota". You said the Gophers are last in the conference because they lost one head-to-head game.

So I guess St. Mary's is better than Gonzaga right now.
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I think head to head is more important than final standings in an unbalanced schedule. Especially when the teams are finishing very close to each other. Like 15-5 compared to 5-15? Sure. Head to head is flukey. But in this case I think Nebraska is better. And they aren’t good at all.
 

VanillaThunder said:
They have 4 young players incoming next year and 7 outgoing 5th year seniors.
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I'm assuming you're counting Sutherlin but I'm not sure he has to leave. This was only his 4th year of actually playing. If an appeal was needed for him to get another year, I think he would have a pretty fair chance of winning it.
 

swanyj said:
I understand what you are saying but the issue is not if he was an upgrade to what was on the court (which he is...Daniels and Ogele suck), it is about gaining that critical experience. Those two guys NEVER should have played last night other than to give a breather to TT. If Johnson wants to play without a big, that was his strategy, but playing two inferior players who will be gone next year, over TT is nuts! Those 16 minutes should have gone to TT.

And once again, he plays 3 guys 40 minutes, and all sucking wind late in the game. All of this is eerily familiar to the crap Pitino did while he was here and I am afraid we are going to end up with the same results. Although I have to admit that Johnson/Thorson have a better plan for the games, they are copying some of the same problems of Pitino and that is what is frustrating.
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To the first part, you feel TT would be an upgrade over Daniels and Ogele. The coaches who see the guys everyday don't agree. I agree fully that Daniels and Ogele don't seem to bring much to the table, but for one reason or another the coaches feel they bring more than TT would.

To the second part, Johnson is coaching to win even with the limited roster so he plays a small group of guys heavy minutes. He could rest the key guys more and just be content with a blowout loss but he doesn't seem to be wired that way.

I just don't think we can read a ton into how Johnson is using the current players because he has such limited options on this current roster.
 


cjbfbp said:
I'm assuming you're counting Sutherlin but I'm not sure he has to leave. This was only his 4th year of actually playing. If an appeal was needed for him to get another year, I think he would have a pretty fair chance of winning it.
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He is out of eligibility.
 

Spaulding!No! said:
Letting the past players walk was a strategy by the coaching staff to get a free pass on year one. Next year is year two
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You’re suggesting the staff let last years team walk on purpose? You should probably re-think posting here.
 

I get it on TT. The coaches know what they have and don't want to lose games on purpose. But here's the thing: TT only got into the Iowa game as a last resort. They wouldn't have played him otherwise. They didn't think he would be successful. What happened? He totally changed the game.

Against Rutgers I'm sure he wouldn't have played again. All the evidence from the season points to that. He played out of necessity. What happened? He played 40 minutes, performed well, and was part of a great win.

Last night was utterly pathetic inside. Seems a few more minutes would have helped to determine if TT could have been successful. Coaches aren't infallible. They should know best. But sometimes surprising things happen. Last night seemed to be one of those times that we could have given him more of a chance.
 

topos said:
Dunks, putbacks, and garbage buckets? That would have been cherished on this team and could have helped us win some of these close games.
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I don’t think Fox will be super impactful in the conference offensively next year. Basing it on what I’ve seen from him. I hope I’m wrong. If you have seen him play and disagree that is great.
 

tjgopher said:
He is out of eligibility.
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That may or may not be a fact. Whether he would have any more eligibility left would be for the NCAA to decide. He's played only four years. Like I said, if he wanted to play another year and needs to make an appeal, I think he might have a fair chance of winning one.
 

WilliamsArenaGuy said:
I get it on TT. The coaches know what they have and don't want to lose games on purpose. But here's the thing: TT only got into the Iowa game as a last resort. They wouldn't have played him otherwise. They didn't think he would be successful. What happened? He totally changed the game.

Against Rutgers I'm sure he wouldn't have played again. All the evidence from the season points to that. He played out of necessity. What happened? He played 40 minutes, performed well, and was part of a great win.

Last night was utterly pathetic inside. Seems a few more minutes would have helped to determine if TT could have been successful. Coaches aren't infallible. They should know best. But sometimes surprising things happen. Last night seemed to be one of those times that we could have given him more of a chance.
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This is a great post. Sums up a lot of what I’ve tried to say but you did it better.
 

cjbfbp said:
That may or may not be a fact. Whether he would have any more eligibility left would be for the NCAA to decide. He's played only four years. Like I said, if he wanted to play another year and needs to make an appeal, I think he might have a fair chance of winning one.
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It is fact. He is out of eligibility. Playing only four years has nothing to do with it in his case. He had the misfortune of taking a redshirt during a COVID year. So, he is playing that extra year right now. He doesn't get two years for missing one.
 

CentralGopher said:
You’re suggesting the staff let last years team walk on purpose? You should probably re-think posting here.
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Before you dress down someone else for making a statement like that, ask yourself: "How do I know he gave much of an effort to prevent multiple players from walking?" He claimed that he persuaded Ihnen pretty hard to stay but I don't recall him saying that about anyone else.
 

tjgopher said:
It is fact. He is out of eligibility. Playing only four years has nothing to do with it in his case. He had the misfortune of taking a redshirt during a COVID year. So, he is playing that extra year right now. He doesn't get two years for missing one.
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I can tell you don't work in the field of law or regulation. Rules are often interpreted on a case by case basis.
 

cjbfbp said:
Before you dress down someone else for making a statement like that, ask yourself: "How do I know he gave much of an effort to prevent multiple players from walking?" He claimed that he persuaded Ihnen pretty hard to stay but I don't recall him saying that about anyone else.
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Without direct knowledge it is a ridiculous assumption either way. I am not making any such assumption.
 

cjbfbp said:
I can tell you don't work in the field of law or regulation. Rules are often interpreted on a case by case basis.
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Ok, believe what you want. You seem to have all the answers.

But, I can tell you he is not eligible to file for a waiver.
 

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