***OFFICIAL MICHIGAN AT MINNESOTA IN-GAME THREAD!!!***

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Jammer.....I haven't read every post in this thread, but I give you credit for not backing down on your position on Carr. When you said earlier this year he was the worst point guard the Gophers have every had, I thought that was a preposterous statement. I still do. The fact we are still talking about the Gophers and having NCAA hopes is in large part due to Carr (and Oturu obviously). Most of the board had the Gophers on about three of four wins in conference after the Iowa game. The ceiling is much higher than that now.

Any point guard will have games they look bad by virtue of having the ball in their hands the entire game. The presumed player of the year in our conference Winston had 9 TOs yesterday. Nine. It happens.
 

manderson1984 said:
You've got to be kidding me... Statistically, Gabe is literally about the same as last year and still quite a bit better than Williams. Defensively, he's still better too. Love Tre, think he's working hard and getting better, but to play him more than Gabe would be laughable.
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I would like to see Tre taking some more mins from Willis, though. And would like Omersa to get in for Demir more too.
 



I think the Carr debate hinges on how you view the PG position.

I grew up with the idea that the PG's primary role was to facilitate the offense. Move the ball, get the team into position, run the plays, and try to get your teammates good looks. Any scoring by the PG is a plus in this conception of the position.

but, in recent years, we've seen a shift to more PG's who are the primary or at least #2 scoring option for their team. That means the PG winds up with the ball in their hands a lot more. There is nothing 'wrong' with that approach to the PG position - but it does require a player who can be the primary ball-handler, score points - AND still make sure that teammates get touches and points.

My feeling on Carr is that he does force up some shots and should try to move the ball a little more. yes, he's a scorer. But, if that's the case, you really need a secondary ball-handler to take some of the load off the primary PG.

And that gets back to our old bugaboo, roster management. IMHO, you should not have a team where the coach only trusts 1 guy to handle the ball.
 


manderson1984 said:
You've got to be kidding me... Statistically, Gabe is literally about the same as last year and still quite a bit better than Williams. Defensively, he's still better too. Love Tre, think he's working hard and getting better, but to play him more than Gabe would be laughable.



Howard has guarded all bigs that way this year. Think he just trusts Teske and doesn't want others out of place. Will be interesting to see if he continues it all season.
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Huh?

Let's go the statistics route, since that's what you brought up.

Last year: 41.7% FG. 41% from 3.
This year: 38.6% FG. 35% from 3.

If you take away his 34 point game, he is shooting 31.5% from 3 this year.

In Big Ten play so far, he is shooting 25% from 3. His overall FG% is 26%.

Tre is currently playing half the minutes of Gabe. I would increase Tre's minutes and take some away from Gabe right now until he gets out of his funk.
 

jamiche said:
I enjoy every game. His big assist total was courtesy of a super talented big man.

He's a good player. He'll make the team better by moving theCarr will need to bring his A game eve
manderson1984 said:
You've got to be kidding me...



Howard has guarded all bigs that way this year. Think he just trusts Teske and doesn't want others out of place. Will be interesting to see if he continues it all season.
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jamiche said:
I enjoy every game. His big assist total was courtesy of a super talented big man.

He's a good player. He'll make the team better by moving the ball.
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His assist total is courtesy of a good pass to a super talented big man.
Moving the ball crisply is always a good thing. Hope to see more of it in the future,
 

gopherguy15 said:
Huh?

Let's go the statistics route, since that's what you brought up.

Last year: 41.7% FG. 41% from 3.
This year: 38.6% FG. 35% from 3.

If you take away his 34 point game, he is shooting 31.5% from 3 this year.

In Big Ten play so far, he is shooting 25% from 3. His overall FG% is 26%.

Tre is currently playing half the minutes of Gabe. I would increase Tre's minutes and take some away from Gabe right now until he gets out of his funk.
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Gabe also went through the same shooting woes last December and January. 3% on FG% isn't huge and 6% can be made up for as well, either way I don't count Gabe as all of a sudden awful because he's shooting 35% from 3 instead of 41. You stated Williams should be playing more minutes than Gabe. That's ridiculous. Choosing to take some away is a different conversation.
 

golfing18now said:
Jammer.....I haven't read every post in this thread, but I give you credit for not backing down on your position on Carr. When you said earlier this year he was the worst point guard the Gophers have every had, I thought that was a preposterous statement. I still do. The fact we are still talking about the Gophers and having NCAA hopes is in large part due to Carr (and Oturu obviously). Most of the board had the Gophers on about three of four wins in conference after the Iowa game. The ceiling is much higher than that now.

Any point guard will have games they look bad by virtue of having the ball in their hands the entire game. The presumed player of the year in our conference Winston had 9 TOs yesterday. Nine. It happens.
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I think that he is playing better than when I made that statement. He was killing them early in the year. Winston obviously had a crappy game yesterday. His production can withstand a game like that. Carr isn't at that level. Let's hope he gets there.

Carr has the kind of talent that Pitino should be able to cultivate. At this point he doesn't move the ball and he puts himself in a lot of situations where he needs to be bailed out by the refs. The refs will do that at home. It doesn't happen on the road.

As I said in an earlier post, if Carr is running the team the way Pitino wants it run, then it's on Pitino.
 



gopherguy15 said:
Huh?

Let's go the statistics route, since that's what you brought up.

Last year: 41.7% FG. 41% from 3.
This year: 38.6% FG. 35% from 3.

If you take away his 34 point game, he is shooting 31.5% from 3 this year.

In Big Ten play so far, he is shooting 25% from 3. His overall FG% is 26%.

Tre is currently playing half the minutes of Gabe. I would increase Tre's minutes and take some away from Gabe right now until he gets out of his funk.
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You cannot cite shooting stats in an argument to get Williams more PT. He's been a terrible shooter, much worse than Gabe.
 

manderson1984 said:
You've got to be kidding me... Statistically, Gabe is literally about the same as last year and still quite a bit better than Williams. Defensively, he's still better too. Love Tre, think he's working hard and getting better, but to play him more than Gabe would be laughable.
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Not so sure I agree, he is shooting 28% overall and 18% from the three against Big Ten Competition, he is taking his share of shot's, he has to start producing or playing time should be limited.
 

jovs said:
Not so sure I agree, he is shooting 28% overall and 18% from the three against Big Ten Competition, he is taking his share of shot's, he has to start producing or playing time should be limited.
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He's not getting as many clean looks, and I think part of it is that Carr is often hunting his own shot rather than trying to get shots for others. Sometimes he does, and sometimes he doesn't, and he goes in streaks that way. I see the next step in Carr's development as using the threat of scoring as a way to set up teammates.

Related is that Carr and Oturu are scoring so well themselves, they don't necessarily have to pass out of their drive. If opponents start consistently doubling Daniel, he can get Gabe some easy ones.

Last but not least, Gabe needs to take more closer-in shots, including faking the three and driving. When he's done that this year, it's usually been successful.
 

jovs said:
Not so sure I agree, he is shooting 28% overall and 18% from the three against Big Ten Competition, he is taking his share of shot's, he has to start producing or playing time should be limited.
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He was terrible in Big 10 comp at the start last year. I've watched the kid play for 6 years. I highly doubt he continues to shoot that bad during the conference and I'm not saying he could lose some minutes, but he's still a 28-33 minute guy even with the poor shooting. He's too valuable and smart to leave on the bench.
 



manderson1984 said:
He was terrible in Big 10 comp at the start last year. I've watched the kid play for 6 years. I highly doubt he continues to shoot that bad during the conference and I'm not saying he could lose some minutes, but he's still a 28-33 minute guy even with the poor shooting. He's too valuable and smart to leave on the bench.
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Gabe just needs to shoot his way out of it, by taking what is given to him and working to get open. I like that our bench has a couple of energy guys on it, like Williams and Omersa, although I could see considering making Willis a 6th man for offensive off the bench. Gabe is still one of our best players and will shoot us to a few victories during the BT season.
 


jamiche said:
I think part of the reason Gabe is so inconsistent is that he doesn't get enough shots. Our offense stagnates which means that he doesn't touch the ball often and rarely with room to operate. He's not that athletic, so he needs ball movement, cuts, picks and screens to get good looks. That can't happen when our ball movement consists mostly of dribbling, short, slow passes on the perimeter and hand offs. In order for him to be a consistent asset, I think he needs at least ten shots a game. I haven't looked, but I think he's been in the 4-8 range this year.
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I disagree. We get much more ball movement this year than we have the past five years. Carr can over dribble, I grant that, but he finds open guys who then make the secondary passes.
 


This was a much needed win in a quietly bad week for the Gophers as far as their resume is concerned. The Oklahoma, DePaul, and Utah losses keep looking worse as none are projected as tournament teams now and DePaul is all the way down at 72 in the NET. Likewise, Oklahoma State is at the bottom of the Big 12 and the Ohio State signature win isn't looking like the resume builder it once was. On the positive side, Clemson won at North Carolina for the first time in program history.

We saw good Marcus and bad Marcus yesterday and fortunately more of good Marcus especially in the second half when he was badly needed. I feel like many of his drives to the basket are really low percentage looks, but he's finding a way to make them and we need his offense.

Daniel Oturu kept this from being a blowout in the first half. That game was on the verge of getting very ugly before Daniel took over. The variety of ways in which Daniel can score is really impressive. Pitino/staff have to be ready for teams to start aggressively getting the ball out of Daniel's hands because nobody else on this team has shown they can be consistently efficient on the offensive end.

If there is one area where this team has the most room for improvement, it's on the defensive end of the floor. There were way too many layups allowed where guys seemingly fell asleep on cuts and/or weren't communicating. For a team with a number of guys who clearly want to play defense (Kalscheur, Williams chief among them), the defense should be better. The defense gave up a bunch of layups against a badly undermanned Northwestern team too. KenPom has the Gophers defense just two spots ahead of Iowa (who is severely limited athletically per usual).
 

Carr had 21 points, 12 assists, zero turnovers, 4 rebounds, and was 7 for 13 from the floor. Got lost a few times on defense (especially in first half), but I think overall he played OK. ?
 

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