***OFFICIAL MICHIGAN AT MINNESOTA IN-GAME THREAD!!!***

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Block M said:
Thats a cynical assessment. We lose by 15 at Purdue without Carr. His main issue was fatigue while playing 48 minutes.
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Not cynical at all. It's based on his style of play. He was tired partially because he had the ball too much.
 

jblass said:
I suppose you would say the same thing about Cassius Winston. He only had 10 points and committed 9 turnovers on the road today against Purdue. If you want to do a comparison Carr had a better game than Winston on the road a against Purdue.
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That was one game. I don't think anyone would trade Winston for Carr.
 

jamiche said:
That was one game. I don't think anyone would trade Winston for Carr.
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Not sure anybody is suggesting that. But moreso pointing out how much Carr carried us in one of the toughest places to play in the country.
 







Block M said:
Because we don't have another ball handler.
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It's not about having another ball handler. He doesn't move the ball, he takes too many shots and his shot selection isn't good. All of those off balance shots at Purdue that were going in, stopped going in, which was predictable. He was super tired at the end because of the minutes and the hero ball. He's definitely talented but, in his case, less would be more. Fewer shots and less time with the ball in his hands, coupled with more (and crisper) passes would make him a better pg and the offense would run better.
 




jamiche said:
It's not about having another ball handler. He doesn't move the ball, he takes too many shots and his shot selection isn't good. All of those off balance shots at Purdue that were going in, stopped going in, which was predictable. He was super tired at the end because of the minutes and the hero ball. He's definitely talented but, in his case, less would be more. Fewer shots and less time with the ball in his hands, coupled with more (and crisper) passes would make him a better pg and the offense would run better.
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God I hope you hated Amir and Nate Mason as PGs too.
 

manderson1984 said:
God I hope you hated Amir and Nate Mason as PGs too.
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Amir wasn't a point guard. Pitino had no choice on that one.

I like point guards that move the ball and get open looks on their own shots through good ball movement. Carr gives himself no margin for error on the road when his off balance shots are less likely to go in and he's not going to get the calls on drives to the basket.

I think he's a talented player. However, given the amount of responsibility Pitino has granted Carr, I think the team would function better if he passed more.
 
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jamiche said:
Amir wasn't a point guard. Pitino had no choice on that one.

I like point guards that move the ball and get open looks on their own shots through good ball movement. Carr gives himself no margin for error on the road when his off balance shots are less likely to go in and he's not going to get the calls on drives to the basket.

I think he's a talented player. However, given the amount of responsibility Pitino has granted Carr, I think the team would function better if he passed more.
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Yes, he was last season. No doubt about it. No room for debate.
 



jamiche said:
Amir wasn't a point guard. Pitino had no choice on that one.

I like point guards that move the ball and get open looks on their own shots through good ball movement. Carr gives himself no margin for error on the road when his off balance shots are less likely to go in and he's not going to get the calls on drives to the basket.

I think he's a talented player. However, given the amount of responsibility Pitino has granted Carr, I think the team would function better if he passed more.
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I do too, but Pitino's offense's have been pretty lead guard dominant. I honestly thought this offense wouldn't be that way this year. I get annoyed when some bask in the glory that was Nate Mason, but will rip Amir or Carr. I hope the addition of Mashburn Jr. will allow the ball to continue to move better.
 

Great win. Carr has progressed a ton...much more confident on the dribble.
 

manderson1984 said:
I do too, but Pitino's offense's have been pretty lead guard dominant. I honestly thought this offense wouldn't be that way this year. I get annoyed when some bask in the glory that was Nate Mason, but will rip Amir or Carr. I hope the addition of Mashburn Jr. will allow the ball to continue to move better.
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I don't bask in the glory that was Mason. I thought he was a good player. It seemed like he became more ball dominant each season. We haven't had many good pg's, so Mason's reputation has been elevated.

BTW, I don't have a problem with a pg who takes a lot of shots, as long as there is flow to the offense. Right now the gophers don't have any flow and they can get away with it at home, but it kills them on the road. Their two best players, Carr and Oturu, are not passers, which makes the gophers easy for a home team to defend, especially with the fans on your side and the refs providing home cooking.

If Pitino wants his pg to possess the ball 23 out of every 30 seconds, then Carr's style of play is entirely on the coach.
 

I certainly did not watch every game of Mason's career. But I swear, to me he was: when we didn't necessarily need it, he would hit every shot in the world, but as soon as we needed him to hit a shot, he couldn't buy one.
 

BarnBurner said:
Yes, he was last season. No doubt about it. No room for debate.
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That's a revelation!

Everybody knows Amir played pg last year, barn. Almost everybody understood the point which was pg wasn't Amir's natural position. However, Pitino played him there because he didn't have a decent available alternative and Richard was pushing for it.
 

I posted during the game, but worth repeating: I don't know when I've seen the Gopher defense so disorganized this year as they were in this game. Obviously part of it was the quality of opponent and their offensive execution, but winning the game has obscured the losing people on defense.
 

jamiche said:
I don't bask in the glory that was Mason. I thought he was a good player. It seemed like he became more ball dominant each season. We haven't had many good pg's, so Mason's reputation has been elevated.
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Correct, I didn't mean to say you specifically were. You are consistent in your belief in an offense that moves the ball more like myself.

jamiche said:
BTW, I don't have a problem with a pg who takes a lot of shots, as long as there is flow to the offense. Right now the gophers don't have any flow and they can get away with it at home, but it kills them on the road. Their two best players, Carr and Oturu, are not passers, which makes the gophers easy for a home team to defend, especially with the fans on your side and the refs providing home cooking.

If Pitino wants his pg to possess the ball 23 out of every 30 seconds, then Carr's style of play is entirely on the coach.
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I don't really even believe in positions, so I only care that the best shooters get the most shots. Totally on the coach and how he wants to play for sure.
 

I think that where Carr can progress is by passing more and more quickly, early in the shot clock. In the first half he was dribbling way too much early in the clock. All of the really good point guards will look to dribble and create as the shot clock winds down. Winston does it as does Simpson. But he needs to get the whole team engaged early in each possession. Then create as needed.
He has been very, very good for us, but there is certainly room to learn.
 

manderson1984 said:
Correct, I didn't mean to say you specifically were. You are consistent in your belief in an offense that moves the ball more like myself.



I don't really even believe in positions, so I only care that the best shooters get the most shots. Totally on the coach and how he wants to play for sure.
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I think part of the reason Gabe is so inconsistent is that he doesn't get enough shots. Our offense stagnates which means that he doesn't touch the ball often and rarely with room to operate. He's not that athletic, so he needs ball movement, cuts, picks and screens to get good looks. That can't happen when our ball movement consists mostly of dribbling, short, slow passes on the perimeter and hand offs. In order for him to be a consistent asset, I think he needs at least ten shots a game. I haven't looked, but I think he's been in the 4-8 range this year.
 

Bad Gopher said:
I posted during the game, but worth repeating: I don't know when I've seen the Gopher defense so disorganized this year as they were in this game. Obviously part of it was the quality of opponent and their offensive execution, but winning the game has obscured the losing people on defense.
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It was really bad the first 8-10 minutes of the game and the first 5-7 minutes of the second half. Early in the second half #55 on Michigan got loose from Carr for three or four easy baskets. Then things tightened up.
 

jamiche said:
.

I think he's a talented player. However, given the amount of responsibility Pitino has granted Carr, I think the team would function better if he passed more.
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21 pts, 12 assists and no TOs. Twelve assists.
He’s not perfect and hopefully he continues to get better and play more precisely on the road. Try enjoying a game.
 

jamiche said:
I think part of the reason Gabe is so inconsistent is that he doesn't get enough shots. Our offense stagnates which means that he doesn't touch the ball often and rarely with room to operate. He's not that athletic, so he needs ball movement, cuts, picks and screens to get good looks. That can't happen when our ball movement consists mostly of dribbling, short, slow passes on the perimeter and hand offs. In order for him to be a consistent asset, I think he needs at least ten shots a game. I haven't looked, but I think he's been in the 4-8 range this year.
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Michigan picked their poison, never doubled Dan and closely guarded our perimeter players, running them off the 3 point line. Very little help down low so Oturu ate them alive. Demir had room and was effective. Howard must have thought that was going to work. Maybe analytics pointed him in that direction.
 

sal said:
21 pts, 12 assists and no TOs. Twelve assists.
He’s not perfect and hopefully he continues to get better and play more precisely on the road. Try enjoying a game.
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I enjoy every game. His big assist total was courtesy of a super talented big man.

He's a good player. He'll make the team better by moving the ball.
 

sal said:
Michigan picked their poison, never doubled Dan and closely guarded our perimeter players, running them off the 3 point line. Very little help down low so Oturu ate them alive. Demir had room and was effective. Howard must have thought that was going to work. Maybe analytics pointed him in that direction.
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Oturu seems to get tired late in games because he has to play so many minutes and I think Howard thought he could wear him down by rotating three very physical big men in and out against him. Oturu did a great job of staying out of foul trouble yesterday. When he picked up his first foul in the first minute of the game I thought we were in trouble. It never became an issue.
 

Gabe will obviously continue to start, but until he starts playing better offensively, I think Tre should be playing more minutes then him. He is in an absolute funk right now and can't buy a basket. I've heard a bunch of people talk about his defense on this thread, but his defense was absolutely average at best during this game. His play right now is the definition of a sophomore slump. I hope he can snap out of it, because this team needs a consistent outside threat.

As for Willis, people need to understand how difficult it can be getting over an ankle injury. He's clearly not 100% right now. Once he's completely healthy, we'll see the Willis from early in the season.
 

gopherguy15 said:
Gabe will obviously continue to start, but until he starts playing better offensively, I think Tre should be playing more minutes then him. He is in an absolute funk right now and can't buy a basket. I've heard a bunch of people talk about his defense on this thread, but his defense was absolutely average at best during this game. His play right now is the definition of a sophomore slump. I hope he can snap out of it, because this team needs a consistent outside threat.

As for Willis, people need to understand how difficult it can be getting over an ankle injury. He's clearly not 100% right now. Once he's completely healthy, we'll see the Willis from early in the season.
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You've got to be kidding me... Statistically, Gabe is literally about the same as last year and still quite a bit better than Williams. Defensively, he's still better too. Love Tre, think he's working hard and getting better, but to play him more than Gabe would be laughable.


jamiche said:
Oturu seems to get tired late in games because he has to play so many minutes and I think Howard thought he could wear him down by rotating three very physical big men in and out against him. Oturu did a great job of staying out of foul trouble yesterday. When he picked up his first foul in the first minute of the game I thought we were in trouble. It never became an issue.
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Howard has guarded all bigs that way this year. Think he just trusts Teske and doesn't want others out of place. Will be interesting to see if he continues it all season.
 


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