***OFFICIAL INDIANA AT MINNESOTA IN-GAME THREAD!!!***

Donate To GopherHole

Ewert86PC said:
So much this. At this level, results matter. The age of extended patience is gone.

Last night, I lost faith in Hawkins. I've had enough of continuously taking 3-point shots when they aren't falling for him. Why doesn't CBJ do something about it? He seems afraid to put him on the bench.

Our inside the paint game has to get more opportunities.
Click to expand...
Because he didn't recruit enough guards.

I said it last year and I know people laughed but even if we have to add some kid from D3 or D2 that can dribble the ball up and shoot a little. We need more playable depth. There is a world between guys you want playing 25 minutes per game and guys who wouldn't play a minute per game and we seem to not be able to find those folks.
 

Ewert86PC said:
So much this. At this level, results matter. The age of extended patience is gone.

Last night, I lost faith in Hawkins. I've had enough of continuously taking 3-point shots when they aren't falling for him. Why doesn't CBJ do something about it? He seems afraid to put him on the bench.

Our inside the paint game has to get more opportunities.
Click to expand...
Regarding the inside game: Garcia appeared scared to be anywhere near the lane last night.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Because he didn't recruit enough guards.

I said it last year and I know people laughed but even if we have to add some kid from D3 or D2 that can dribble the ball up and shoot a little. We need more playable depth. There is a world between guys you want playing 25 minutes per game and guys who wouldn't play a minute per game and we seem to not be able to find those folks.
Click to expand...
But... but... but.... CBJ knows how to recruit! :banghead:

Maybe we should dial back that narrative now.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Because he didn't recruit enough guards.

I said it last year and I know people laughed but even if we have to add some kid from D3 or D2 that can dribble the ball up and shoot a little. We need more playable depth. There is a world between guys you want playing 25 minutes per game and guys who wouldn't play a minute per game and we seem to not be able to find those folks.
Click to expand...
You have to ask yourself one question though; would he play them? (Not meant to sound like Dirty Harry.)
 


Is there a place to find out what percentage of offensive possessions ended up without points? Last night had to be very high with poor shooting and lots of turnovers.
 

Ewert86PC said:
HTF does a coach let this be a recurring theme all season long?
Click to expand...
We have been one of the better 3 point shooting teams in the conference and that comes with having a couple of just brutal games against Indiana. It has not been a recurring theme all season long.

Team is definitely streaky and has prolonged droughts where the shots aren't falling but in general this has been a good 3 point shooting team in spite of a couple games where they were brutal.
 

MNVCGUY said:
We have been one of the better 3 point shooting teams in the conference and that comes with having a couple of just brutal games against Indiana. It has not been a recurring theme all season long.

Team is definitely streaky and has prolonged droughts where the shots aren't falling but in general this has been a good 3 point shooting team in spite of a couple games where they were brutal.
Click to expand...
Then why don't we work the ball into the paint when the 3s stop dropping? Why do we keep going with chunks and clings off the rum, when we can get it inside, score two and/or draw a foul? Bad in-game adjustments.
 

CPTMidnight said:
Are you the same RockChalk that predicted 4 BT wins and USAF had something like 2? I cant imagine how insufferable you guys would be if we had 2 wins right now (of course I would probably have shelved this site until next year and would not be reading any of it)
Click to expand...
YES, that would be me. I guess I can be wrong, like the college BB prognosticators, when they had KU as a pre season #1.

Even some of the staunch Johnson people on this forum see issues. Some of us are just more vocal than others. Everyone one here is welcome to their opinion.

I see more talent on his third team, that's a good thing. I haven't notice a whole lot better coaching however. Talent can cover for sub par coaching. Sub par coaching is more difficult to hide, when a team is shorter on talent, IMO.
 



Ewert86PC said:
Then why don't we work the ball into the paint when the 3s stop dropping? Why do we keep going with chunks and clings off the rum, when we can get it inside, score two and/or draw a foul? Bad in-game adjustments.
Click to expand...
Did you notice Payne not playing? His back seems to really be bothering him.
 

I know the players are better and the coach gets the credit for that. But I cannot tell if in game coaching was better. It’s Pitinoesque.
 

Hawkins wasn’t the problem, someone has to hit some 3’s and the guys who should have, didn’t! Add in Garcia for the evening and that leaves Hawkins to try to score. As for JOJ, when he did come in in recent games, he was basically invisible. There is no doubt he has the talent, but he either doesn’t want to play here, or he can’t figure out how to use those physical gifts he has. Either way, he will be better suited someplace else next year.
 




RockChalk said:
YES, that would be me. I guess I can be wrong, like the college BB prognosticators, when they had KU as a pre season #1.

Even some of the staunch Johnson people on this forum see issues. Some of us are just more vocal than others. Everyone one here is welcome to their opinion.

I see more talent on his third team, that's a good thing. I haven't notice a whole lot better coaching however. Talent can cover for sub par coaching. Sub par coaching is more difficult to hide, when a team is shorter on talent, IMO.
Click to expand...
You cannot out coach horse shit shooting by an entire team. Why is that concept so difficult?
 



Bob_Loblaw said:
Because he didn't recruit enough guards.

I said it last year and I know people laughed but even if we have to add some kid from D3 or D2 that can dribble the ball up and shoot a little. We need more playable depth.There is a world between guys you want playing 25 minutes per game and guys who wouldn't play a minute per game and we seem to not be able to find those folks.
Click to expand...

Well said! Perhaps you're embellishing this a bit because I don't know why anyone would laugh at the idea that the coach should have recruited another guard.

This team has now lost 3 of its last 4 games. They were overwhelmed in two of those losses and played well but ran out of gas in the third. The team looks worn out to me. Although the situation is most acute with the guards, it's not limited to them. Unless Ola Joseph is injured or told the coach that he doesn't want to play anymore, it's bewildering that he's played a grand total of only 45 minutes in the last 10 games.

I got the feeling during the last three spring/summers that Johnson experienced portal recruiting fatigue and gave up too early (or settled too much) in all of them (the acceleration of Betts' matriculation was the most dubious and desperate device to add to the roster). If he is lucky enough to have all of the starters return, then he must do whatever it takes to supply them with capable relief this offseason.
 

fan of Ray Williams said:
You have to ask yourself one question though; would he play them? (Not meant to sound like Dirty Harry.)
Click to expand...
I saw progress from Ben this year in his team formation. He had a better rounded team. I saw progress in game management this season, mostly coming out of halftime. I was encouraged by the changes.

What is frustrating to watch is Ben’s inability to develop his back up players. Last night was a prime example. His players were gassed and making a lot of mistakes. He should have rotated in JOJ and Betts to give our 3 guards a blow. They don’t need many minutes.

The development of his backups should be a season long process so that they become viable playing options when needed.

The best coaches adapt and maximize the skill sets of the players he brought in. Ben has failed in this regard. I have seen no change since his first game he coached in year 1.

There are several “TT’s” on this years team that Ben brought in that need to be “freed”.
 

Gopheritnow said:
Hawkins wasn’t the problem, someone has to hit some 3’s and the guys who should have, didn’t! Add in Garcia for the evening and that leaves Hawkins to try to score. As for JOJ, when he did come in in recent games, he was basically invisible. There is no doubt he has the talent, but he either doesn’t want to play here, or he can’t figure out how to use those physical gifts he has. Either way, he will be better suited someplace else next year.
Click to expand...
Hawkins wasnt the problem? 4 turnovers and 1-10 shooting. He was definately one of the problems. If we are going to win games we need him to score! He scored 13 against NW, 18 against Penn State, 16 against Rutgers, and 24 against Ohio State. The games we lose he generally doesn't do much. There were plenty of blame to go around, but hawkins was terrible last night and if we are going to win Big Ten games we need him to play well!
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I can't say anything about Ihnen, but JOJ hasn't earned minutes. The guy refuses to play with a motor and I don't blame Ben for refusing to play him until he shows some initiative.

I would have been fine with Jack Wilson, Keinys, Betts, and even Ramberg getting some run tonight though. The starters lacked juice and were playing sloppy.
Click to expand...
My thing with JOJ's usage is that Ben pretty much started him for a year and a half, then the way he played suddenly became such a problem he can't even see the floor? Granted he has not been good the last couple of times he has played, but even when he was playing well he seemed to get his minutes limited. He seemed very confused on his role which wouldn't be surprising considering how drastically it changed in the last few weeks. Also, everyone who made a sincere argument we would get 5-10 productive minutes per game from Jack Wilson this year, I hope you have learned from this. Ramberg deserved 5 minutes. We needed someone to spell the guards and it is literally his last game in Williams. C'mon man.
 

Spaulding!No! said:
aBI know the players are better and the coach gets the credit for that. But I cannot tell if in game coaching was better. It’s Pitinoesque.
Click to expand...
The first 2 years were coaching malpractice. Zero questions asked.

This year I am absolutely confused. Games we are up 15+ and lose, or the Nebraska/USF/Indiana game I think CBJ might be the actual worst coach in the NCAA.

Then there are games we are down 15 and storm back to win, or score 90+, or play right with the #1 team. Then I think hey maybe he has figured it out.

It's been a roller coaster for sure. I would agree at this point he's coming back but next year expectations need to take a serious step up and no amount of excuses should change that. Not to be a pessimist but I get the same feeling for this team next year as I got from the Vikings this year. The prior year the Vikings won every close game that felt unsustainable, this year we sucked. IE the law of averages caught up to us. The gophers have been down at what 17 of 19 games at half is that right?? Feels like that's a recipe for a bad year just by shear probability.
 

RockChalk said:
That is their identity. When they shoot poorly they have nothing else.
Click to expand...

It's not that. The players (particularly the guards) are worn out. This was a problem of insufficient recruiting.

Last night Indiana played 6 players off the bench for a total of 66 minutes. We played two bench players for a total of 24 minutes and Fox had 21 of those. Hawkins played the whole game (again), Mitchell missed a minute, and Christie and Garcia each missed 2 minutes. They've been doing this for awhile now. They can't afford to get too physical on defense and risk fouling out and they don't have the energy to go balls out on both ends of the floor for the entire game.
 
Last edited:

Gopheritnow said:
You cannot out coach horse shit shooting by an entire team. Why is that concept so difficult?
Click to expand...
you can tell them to go to the basket however. Ware had 2 fouls at about the 8ish minute mark (after the Christie drive where he drew contact) and we were in the bonus. After that, our possessions went

Fox to rim: 1/2 FTs (10 on shot clock)
Mitchell fast break layup
Hawkins flailing late clock towards rim (as clock expiring)
DG 3 miss (late clock)
Mitchell 3 miss (over 20 on shot clock)
Mitchell fadeaway jumper miss (20 on shot clock)
Payne TO
Hawkins 3 pt miss (15 on shot clock)
Hawkins TO (early clock)
Payne layup (5 on shot clock)
Mitchell 3 pt miss (over 20 on shot clock)
Payne late shot clock miss
Mitchell 3 pt miss (over 25 on shot clock with chance to hold for last shot)

At the rim: 5 attempts, 5 points
Away from rim: 6 attempts, 0 points
2 turnovers

they for some reason were really tentative to go inside as well as to get the ball there earlier in the shot clock. we lost that game to Ware last night when you could've eliminated him from the game early. The refs showed they were willing to call it if you went at him. Rhythm 3s within the flow of the offense (ie on the fast break, which is where Mitchell is by far his best, or from inside out, which DG really needs to work on his passing out of the double, are great) are very different than the late clock, self created or deep ones that we kept taking. When shots aren't falling, this team chooses to keep shooting them rather than try do something to get you into the game/get to the line. We have enough older guys who should have been there to know that you have to try something else, like Fox provided last night. Now one could argue we don't have the talent to try something different, which certainly some of our guys are limited in what they can do/offer, but Woodson clearly outcoached Johnson in goading them into the offense we ran. We took forever to get set up and rarely moved the ball inside with any threat and then back out.
 

Allowing 48 of their 70 points in the paint is problematic. Their 4/5 had his way with our bigs and we continue to allow easy drives to the hoop. Ben will not employ a zone which baffles me even for short stretches and change up. Same old strategy which makes it easier to game plan and prepare. And the same with our offense. We live and die with the three
 

GopherBlood777 said:
My thing with JOJ's usage is that Ben pretty much started him for a year and a half, then the way he played suddenly became such a problem he can't even see the floor? Granted he has not been good the last couple of times he has played, but even when he was playing well he seemed to get his minutes limited. He seemed very confused on his role which wouldn't be surprising considering how drastically it changed in the last few weeks. Also, everyone who made a sincere argument we would get 5-10 productive minutes per game from Jack Wilson this year, I hope you have learned from this. Ramberg deserved 5 minutes. We needed someone to spell the guards and it is literally his last game in Williams. C'mon man.
Click to expand...

I liked your post until you said this: "Also, everyone who made a sincere argument we would get 5-10 productive minutes per game from Jack Wilson this year, I hope you have learned from this."

The reality is that there were few, if any, posters who said this. What I remember people saying is that he might be suitable for some spot minutes here and there in certain situations but he would be mostly a practice player that could give Payne a sizeable opponent. I don't know why people feel a need to embellish (or even outright lie) to mock other posters.

I agree that Wilson was a recruiting mistake because we didn't have enough depth ahead of him to afford taking a player for those limited purposes.
 


VanillaThunder said:
I saw progress from Ben this year in his team formation. He had a better rounded team. I saw progress in game management this season, mostly coming out of halftime. I was encouraged by the changes.

What is frustrating to watch is Ben’s inability to develop his back up players. Last night was a prime example. His players were gassed and making a lot of mistakes. He should have rotated in JOJ and Betts to give our 3 guards a blow. They don’t need many minutes.

The development of his backups should be a season long process so that they become viable playing options when needed.

The best coaches adapt and maximize the skill sets of the players he brought in. Ben has failed in this regard. I have seen no change since his first game he coached in year 1.

There are several “TT’s” on this years team that Ben brought in that need to be “freed”.
Click to expand...

I posted here recently that I could understand taking projects who wouldn't be expected to provide much immediate help with the 11th or 12 scholarships but just once I'd like to have a Gopher squad that could field 9 (or even 8) solid and dependable players. It took Pitino some time to figure that out. Hopefully Johnson has watched his players run out of gas often enough over the last three years to finally dedicate himself to doing something about that in this offseason.
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
I posted here recently that I could understand taking projects who wouldn't be expected to provide much immediate help with the 11th or 12 scholarships but just once I'd like to have a Gopher squad that could field 9 (or even 8) solid and dependable players. It took Pitino some time to figure that out. Hopefully Johnson has watched his players run out of gas often enough over the last three years to finally dedicate himself to doing something about that in this offseason.
Click to expand...
I mean he did that at the beginning of the year. He played 9 until mid January. Then it was 8 until he cut it to 7 basically a few weeks back. Teams shrink their rotations as the season gets later on. I don't understand shrinking it to 6 when one of the 7 players can't play however.

If you recall UNC 2 years back basically played 6 players during the tournament.
 


Johnnyboy18 said:
I mean he did that at the beginning of the year. He played 9 until mid January. Then it was 8 until he cut it to 7 basically a few weeks back. Teams shrink their rotations as the season gets later on. I don't understand shrinking it to 6 when one of the 7 players can't play however.

If you recall UNC 2 years back basically played 6 players during the tournament.
Click to expand...

I guess I can understand shortening the rotation but we basically only played 6 players last night (Ihnen played 3 minutes) and you can't do that for too many games. He really needed to recruit another serviceable guard in the offseason at the very least. Indiana played 6 guys off the bench for a total of 66 minutes last night. That certainly helped them maintain the intensity throughout the game. I know we don't have, and probably couldn't hope to get, Indiana's roster but we obviously need to recruit more capable players than we have now.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom