***OFFICIAL CLEVELAND STATE AT MINNESOTA IN-GAME THREAD!!!***

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FinnGopher said:
How many turnovers to steals did Odukale have last night? He scored zero points. He grabbed, what, 10 rebounds? What does that say about where Odukale should be placed on the court? Should he be functioning as our point guard to start the offensive set?
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Says nothing about where he should be placed. When you’re giving up open looks from 3 to a poor shooting team you’re bound to get long rebounds.
 

goldenboy said:
Ben has learned something in 3+ years.
If his first Gopher team had three guards injured that would have been all of the backcourt players in the team. At least we now have enough guards on the roster to fill in. Granted, they aren’t very good guards…
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Year 1 and 2 slow guards at the point (Willis was a great scorer but not a real PG). Year 3 Speedy guard in Hawkins. Year 4 - back to slow guards. Asuma needs to be the guy at the top (not sitting in the corner where Ben has him). Let him make mistakes and figure it out NOW, get him ready for the Big Ten directing the team. Patterson isn't going to cut it at the point.
 


TwistingMyMelon said:
I can see that to an extent. Once Rodman got settled in his career, though, he concentrated on the things he was good at doing and refrained from doing the things that he wasn't very good at doing. Odukale has grown on me and I think he provides value on the floor. He's really good on the defensive end but he's been damn near hopeless as a shooter and is too erratic as a passer although he's decent as a ball handler. So, he needs to limit his shooting and be much more careful in his passing.
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Stop shooting 3s, take it to the rack and I’m more than ok if he can be a defensive stopper
 

bga1 said:
Unless something changes, he has to be a situational player who gives us 15 minutes of defense when we need it or has a special assignment of stopping the opposition's scoring guard/small forward. He is just terrible on the offensive end and the idea that he brings it up court a lot is just insane. The kid hustles and he has athletic talent- and that is a credit to him.
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How many 6-2/6-3 players are you playing? This team only has 1 legit sized athletic sf.
 


bga1 said:
Year 1 and 2 slow guards at the point (Willis was a great scorer but not a real PG). Year 3 Speedy guard in Hawkins. Year 4 - back to slow guards. Asuma needs to be the guy at the top (not sitting in the corner where Ben has him). Let him make mistakes and figure it out NOW, get him ready for the Big Ten directing the team. Patterson isn't going to cut it at the point.
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It's interesting that some were questioning Asuma's quickness and he is probably the quickest guard, maybe Rigsby is close. Doesn't mean Asuma's quick, just means he is, on our roster!
 


march madness said:
How many 6-2/6-3 players are you playing? This team only has 1 legit sized athletic sf.
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I will get killed for saying this on this site but I would rather go big and play Garcia at the 3 than play Femi there for more than 15 minutes a game.

Try this going big:

5 Edmunds or Mitchell
4 Fox
3 Garcia
2 Mitchell/Cochran
1 Asuma

or

Medium

5 Mitchell
4 Garcia
3 Rigsby
2 Mitchell
1 Asuma

small

5 Fox
4 Garcia
3 Cochran
2 Mitchell
1 Asuma

Last night they were talking about Cochran at the point when he returns. I hope not. He is built like an NFL tight end - he's a tank. I watched his video...he backs guys down and posts them up.
 
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FinnGopher said:
How many turnovers to steals did Odukale have last night? He scored zero points. He grabbed, what, 10 rebounds? What does that say about where Odukale should be placed on the court? Should he be functioning as our point guard to start the offensive set?
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NO
 



It just seems like it'll be a long year.

The way we're struggling against these lower tier schools, I just don't know how we compete in the Big 10 even if we show improvements.

These guys need to be coached up into a cohesive unit. That ain't happening.
 

FinnGopher said:
How many turnovers to steals did Odukale have last night? He scored zero points. He grabbed, what, 10 rebounds? What does that say about where Odukale should be placed on the court? Should he be functioning as our point guard to start the offensive set?
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He had two points, 12 boards, 3 assists, 3 steals, 3 blocks, and too many turnovers (6). The box score is posted on this page.

What I liked about the distribution of assists last night is that it wasn't point guard centric. Garcia led the way with 4 but five players had at least two. We don't have anyone like Hawkins on this team so I don't think we should try to play as if we did.
 


TwistingMyMelon said:
He had two points, 12 boards, 3 assists, 3 steals, 3 blocks, and too many turnovers (6). The box score is posted on this page.

What I liked about the distribution of assists last night is that it wasn't point guard centric. Garcia led the way with 4 but five players had at least two. We don't have anyone like Hawkins on this team so I don't think we should try to play as if we did.
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Indeed, Hawkins isn't here. Asuma is here, but he's a freshman. He's also a freshman who played 30 minutes without a turnover while a senior had 6. Where's the disconnect?
Ben watched the same game we did. He saw the court vision Asuma possesses to get the ball to open shots. He saw Asuma make very good decisions and make some nice shots. Asuma's upside for this team is much greater than Odukale's. Asuma is going to show Ben that he can improve ball movement and reduce turnovers in the primary ball handling position. Odukale, is going to have to accept the junkyard dog role on this team because he isn't the top dog or even the 2nd dog. This offense will need to run through Asuma and Garcia. Everyone else needs to be ready to catch and shoot after those two initiate the play.
 



FinnGopher said:
Indeed, Hawkins isn't here. Asuma is here, but he's a freshman. He's also a freshman who played 30 minutes without a turnover while a senior had 6. Where's the disconnect?
Ben watched the same game we did. He saw the court vision Asuma possesses to get the ball to open shots. He saw Asuma make very good decisions and make some nice shots. Asuma's upside for this team is much greater than Odukale's. Asuma is going to show Ben that he can improve ball movement and reduce turnovers in the primary ball handling position. Odukale, is going to have to accept the junkyard dog role on this team because he isn't the top dog or even the 2nd dog. This offense will need to run through Asuma and Garcia. Everyone else needs to be ready to catch and shoot after those two initiate the play.
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I have no problem with Asuma playing most of the time and asserting himself more going forward. The more the better. I also have no problem with Odukale playing a "junkyard dog" role. My sentiments were that Odukale's general floor game was helpful to the team overall, particularly on the defensive end, despite his faults. I never said that he should be the point guard. I did say that I'm not sure whether a point guard centric offense was in our best interest given our current personnel.

I'm not sure what I said to stimulate your lecture on Asuma's inevitable destiny.
 

bga1 said:
I will get killed for saying this on this site but I would rather go big and play Garcia at the 3 than play Femi there for more than 15 minutes a game.

Try this going big:

5 Edmunds or Mitchell
4 Fox
3 Garcia
2 Mitchell/Cochran
1 Asuma
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The spacing with that lineup would be absolutely HORRIFIC.
 


Why Ben had Odukale handle the ball so much, I don't know. He has the average handle of a SF. Maybe it's because he can't shoot? He should be a scrappy weakside rebounder on offense and setting picks.

Anyway, when we play a team with athletic and talented wings we will need him on the floor. Maybe he can watch tape of Rodney and see how to be effective as an undersized player without range?

It is hard to play any 2 of Fox, Mitchell, and Edmonds together, as none can space the floor.

Garcia doesnt have the foot quickness to guard a 3.

We are mostly an undersized team so I don't see how you get away with not having Odukale at sf, unless we are playing against undersized 3 guard lineups, then I guess Cochran and Rigby could play there.

1. Asuma, Mitchell, Patterson
2. Mitchell, Cochran, Rigsby
3. Odukale, Rigsby, Cochran
4. Garcia, Fox
5. Mitchell, Edmonds

Common SF in the big ten:
Tonje 6-5 215lbs
Pryce Sandfort 6-7 210
Heide 6-7 205
Riley 6-8 180
Akins 6-4 195
Mgbako 6-9 222
Derkack 6-6 215

They could play small ball against Akins. As an opposing coach you play a 6-3 190 guy at SF, and I am posting him up every play.
 

Zeppelin Gopher said:
Take a look at that Odukale line...

Honestly not sure I've ever seen something like that before haha
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I
“listened” by following game tracker and his name was on almost every possession as “turnover bad pass.” It was abundantly clear without seeing anything. I’m sure he’s just learning the system.
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
I have no problem with Asuma playing most of the time and asserting himself more going forward. The more the better. I also have no problem with Odukale playing a "junkyard dog" role. My sentiments were that Odukale's general floor game was helpful to the team overall, particularly on the defensive end, despite his faults. I never said that he should be the point guard. I did say that I'm not sure whether a point guard centric offense was in our best interest given our current personnel.

I'm not sure what I said to stimulate your lecture on Asuma's inevitable destiny.
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Aren’t professors supposed to like lectures? 🤔
 

Zeppelin Gopher said:
The spacing with that lineup would be absolutely HORRIFIC.
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What's it looking like now? :) When Garcia goes down on the block, the opponent has 2-3 guys on him down there because they don't fear the pass from him at all. The reason I suggested that lineup is because a big like Edmunds or Mitchell would get one man on them and they could easily get an entry pass and then possibly back out to Garcia. We almost never take it inside and then back out via a post feed.
 


Holy Man said:
I
“listened” by following game tracker and his name was on almost every possession as “turnover bad pass.” It was abundantly clear without seeing anything. I’m sure he’s just learning the system.
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He did have too many turnovers but he did a lot of good things too. The box score with + - was posted in this thread and I think his +13 score was reflective of his overall performance. They were better when he was in there despite his faults.
 

Holy Man said:
I
“listened” by following game tracker and his name was on almost every possession as “turnover bad pass.” It was abundantly clear without seeing anything. I’m sure he’s just learning the system.
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It will be interesting how the ball handling happens going forward. It is pretty obvious that running the offense is not one of Odukele's strength's. He plays decent defense and contributes in other ways, you just have to keep the the ball out of his hands. If Johnson is so inflexible that he doesn't adjust the offense to fit the teams skillset's he's not going to be effective. Right now it is just a mess. I still believe it's a team sport and getting guys in positions they can succeed at makes all the difference in the world.
 

bga1 said:
What's it looking like now? :) When Garcia goes down on the block, the opponent has 2-3 guys on him down there because they don't fear the pass from him at all. The reason I suggested that lineup is because a big like Edmunds or Mitchell would get one man on them and they could easily get an entry pass and then possibly back out to Garcia. We almost never take it inside and then back out via a post feed.
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Haha it's definitely not great now. But would be even worse with that floated lineup
 

Zeppelin Gopher said:
Haha it's definitely not great now. But would be even worse with that floated lineup
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Quite possible. That said, the offensive scheme they have won't work with this group of slowsters.

We need to work the ball inside and then back out and that has never been a steady feature of Ben's offenses- unfortunately. He is and has been a perimeter dribbling coach. Hawkins was the only one to make it work. Willis put up numbers for himself but we almost always lost.
 

march madness said:
Why Ben had Odukale handle the ball so much, I don't know. He has the average handle of a SF. Maybe it's because he can't shoot? He should be a scrappy weakside rebounder on offense and setting picks.

Anyway, when we play a team with athletic and talented wings we will need him on the floor. Maybe he can watch tape of Rodney and see how to be effective as an undersized player without range?

It is hard to play any 2 of Fox, Mitchell, and Edmonds together, as none can space the floor.

Garcia doesnt have the foot quickness to guard a 3.

We are mostly an undersized team so I don't see how you get away with not having Odukale at sf, unless we are playing against undersized 3 guard lineups, then I guess Cochran and Rigby could play there.

1. Asuma, Mitchell, Patterson
2. Mitchell, Cochran, Rigsby
3. Odukale, Rigsby, Cochran
4. Garcia, Fox
5. Mitchell, Edmonds

Common SF in the big ten:
Tonje 6-5 215lbs
Pryce Sandfort 6-7 210
Heide 6-7 205
Riley 6-8 180
Akins 6-4 195
Mgbako 6-9 222
Derkack 6-6 215

They could play small ball against Akins. As an opposing coach you play a 6-3 190 guy at SF, and I am posting him up every play.
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We are going to see a lot of bad match ups this year regardless of how we line up. This is one of the slowest teams I have seen at this level.
 

cheeseheadgophfan said:
Caleb Williams wasn't playing when he was healthy.....to think he's going to come back from mono and be a contributor is wishful thinking.....but that may be all we have right now.
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He's not slow, he can shoot the ball and spread the defense, he fills the needs of some of the things this team is missing. I don't understand why he is not playing with what I have seen so far.
 


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