***OFFICIAL CLEVELAND STATE AT MINNESOTA IN-GAME THREAD!!!***

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TwistingMyMelon said:
Actually, by this season's standards so far, I thought this was a good effort. First time in the season with four players scoring in double figures.

Garcia took a break from his league MVP path and that forced other players to step up and some of them really delivered. Glad to see Asuma assert himself. I think he should start from here on and he'll get even better. Of course, terrific game by Fox after being dormant for a few games. Rigsby was pretty good too.

I read some posters saying how terrible Odukale was. I don't agree. I think he's one our top five players (of the healthy ones - I know that's not saying a lot). Sure, he's the picture of futility when he tries to score but he does a lot of other things on the floor including stuff that doesn't show up in the box score, like causing turnovers without being credited for a steal.
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Odukale is the only player on the roster who can play the 3 and guard a sf. Another badly put together squad.
 

Michigan beat this same team by 50 points and they're expected to be middle of the pack in the conference this year. So.. yeah that's not a good sign.

Frank Mitchell, Patterson, and Odukale legitimately aren't Big Ten level players. And Edmonds isn't either if he can't even get regular minutes in this rotation.
 



Married@SiebertField said:
The Schaeffer/Filer/Gilcud/McCutcheon 73-74 squad struggled to score (but could win games playing tough Musselman match-up zone) but this year’s team takes offensive futility to a new level. It’s beyond me why it’s so hard to enter the ball at high post or low post to Garcia or low post to Mitchell.
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I've only been watching since '77, so I will defer to you. Offensively, Mitchell is on the inside what Okadale is on the perimeter. They don't have a clue how to create match up advantages. It looks like they are playing five on seven every game and every shot is contested.

That's coaching.

Defensively, they are ok, at least against the directional schools.
 

Batc0017 said:
Here's to hoping Caleb Williams can inject some hope into the guard position when he comes back.
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I was thinking this last night.

Haven't seen much chatter about Caleb, but his (theoretical) skill set is sorely lacking from what we are currently trotting out there offensively.

Reasons for optimism:
*we are 4-1 (somehow)
*still waiting for Mitchell, Cochran, and Williams to return
*the defense has been pretty decent
 

Zeppelin Gopher said:
I was thinking this last night.

Haven't seen much chatter about Caleb, but his (theoretical) skill set is sorely lacking from what we are currently trotting out there offensively.

Reasons for optimism:
*we are 4-1 (somehow)
*still waiting for Mitchell, Cochran, and Williams to return
*the defense has been pretty decent
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Reason for reality:

We are now hoping a D3 kid saves us

Maybe our defense isn't great, just our opponents are awful on offense (avg KP off ranking 175.6, most of the B10 is in the top 40 for off eff)

We have looked pretty poor against the 257th ranked schedule.
 

leib0039 said:
Reason for reality:

We are now hoping a D3 kid saves us

Maybe our defense isn't great, just our opponents are awful on offense (avg KP off ranking 175.6, most of the B10 is in the top 40 for off eff)

We have looked pretty poor against the 257th ranked schedule.
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I'm well aware of reasons to be pessimistic, as is every other logical fan.

It's more fun to be hopeful of a turnaround than be a sourpuss.
 



They just held CSU to 0.72 points per possession. For the uninitiated, Anything under 1.0 is generally a good defensive effort. 0.72 is ridiculously low, and you probably need the cooperation of the opponent's poor offense to get there. I pointed out before the game that CSU is short and would have trouble with the MN bigs - evidence this was the case on defense: CSU shot only 14-34 from inside the arc.

That's the good news.

Everyone sees the offensive struggles. MN scored at only 0.89 PPP. That effort loses 90+% of games, even on a good defensive night. It was indeed fortunate to have an incompetent opponent.

Mitchell and Cochran should make a significant difference, though.
 


howeda7 said:
This team is bad. Ben might not (and should not) make it to New Year's day as the head coach. In the meantime, start Asuma and Fox along with Garcia. They are your 3 best players and should play as much as possible.
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Agreed on the three best players. However, it doesn't matter when Ben is fired and who takes the job if the next coach isn't provided with a competitive NIL budget and plans for retrofitting Williams or building a new arena. It's a dead end job without those two components.
 

leib0039 said:
Reason for reality:

We are now hoping a D3 kid saves us
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He's a piece, they need scorers, when combined with Rigsby, Mike Mitchel, and an improving Asuma an additional scorer to go with Garcia will help. You can have an Odukele, big Mitchell, or Patterson on the court just not all at the same time.
 



Zeppelin Gopher said:
I'm well aware of reasons to be pessimistic, as is every other logical fan.

It's more fun to be hopeful of a turnaround than be a sourpuss.
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You should know that kind of thinking doesn't fly around here. If you aren't negative or looking for the negative angle at all times that means you are thrilled with the state of the program and want Johnson to get a lifetime contract. :)
 



MNVCGUY said:
You should know that kind of thinking doesn't fly around here. If you aren't negative or looking for the negative angle at all times that means you are thrilled with the state of the program and want Johnson to get a lifetime contract. :)
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Either 110% one way or 110% the other. There is no place for in between in life, love or sports. Seems like that's the way the world turns these days.
 


Chico Gopher said:
Either 110% one way or 110% the other. There is no place for in between in life, love or sports. Seems like that's the way the world turns these days.
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When you stop having people that are 110 one way or 110 the other way, it generally means that very few care any more. We are in an era now where other than a few fans, Gopher basketball is now into the realm of: "Did the Gophers play a game? Did they win? They did? Oh that's nice."

That is a "rock bottom" situation for a sport that used to garner a lot of attention and a good cadre of really engaged fans.
 


Zeppelin Gopher said:
Take a look at that Odukale line...

Honestly not sure I've ever seen something like that before haha
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Unless something changes, he has to be a situational player who gives us 15 minutes of defense when we need it or has a special assignment of stopping the opposition's scoring guard/small forward. He is just terrible on the offensive end and the idea that he brings it up court a lot is just insane. The kid hustles and he has athletic talent- and that is a credit to him.
 

Ski U Mah Gopher said:
Dennis Rodman had many lines like that in the NBA.
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I can see that to an extent. Once Rodman got settled in his career, though, he concentrated on the things he was good at doing and refrained from doing the things that he wasn't very good at doing. Odukale has grown on me and I think he provides value on the floor. He's really good on the defensive end but he's been damn near hopeless as a shooter and is too erratic as a passer although he's decent as a ball handler. So, he needs to limit his shooting and be much more careful in his passing.
 


Chico Gopher said:
Either 110% one way or 110% the other. There is no place for in between in life, love or sports. Seems like that's the way the world turns these days.
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Yep, I've often thought the same thing and I think it's gotten much worse in this century.
 

Zeppelin Gopher said:
I'm well aware of reasons to be pessimistic, as is every other logical fan.

It's more fun to be hopeful of a turnaround than be a sourpuss.
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I agree but some people seem to really enjoy being sour.

I don't see the point of accelerating pessimism and despair at this point of the season. There's always time for that.

I think fantasy sports drives a lot of this. People can see all of these ratings and indexes and are more conscious and concerned with effects on those and the implied prospects for the future than just watching one game at a time and trying to enjoy the improvements as they come.
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
I can see that to an extent. Once Rodman got settled in his career, though, he concentrated on the things he was good at doing and refrained from doing the things that he wasn't very good at doing. Odukale has grown on me and I think he provides value on the floor. He's really good on the defensive end but he's been damn near hopeless as a shooter and is too erratic as a passer although he's decent as a ball handler. So, he needs to limit his shooting and be much more careful in his passing.
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How many turnovers to steals did Odukale have last night? He scored zero points. He grabbed, what, 10 rebounds? What does that say about where Odukale should be placed on the court? Should he be functioning as our point guard to start the offensive set?
 

Zeppelin Gopher said:
I'm well aware of reasons to be pessimistic, as is every other logical fan.

It's more fun to be hopeful of a turnaround than be a sourpuss.
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When the Korean Women's Hockey Team took the ice, what hope did you have for a victory?

It may be more enjoyable to cheer for your child who can't walk and chew bubble gum at the same time, but it doesn't change the fact that his 3rd grade basketball team just lost 35 to nothing.

Let's just hand out treats after the game and wish everyone a happy evening.
 

Ben has learned something in 3+ years.
If his first Gopher team had three guards injured that would have been all of the backcourt players in the team. At least we now have enough guards on the roster to fill in. Granted, they aren’t very good guards…
 

Batc0017 said:
Here's to hoping Caleb Williams can inject some hope into the guard position when he comes back.
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I can’t remember how effective players have been coming back from mono. It seems like it’s something from which it is hard to recover strength and conditioning.
We could definitely use a shooter, but I didn’t have much confidence he would be in the rotation before I got a look at the rest of these stiffs. It’s embarrassing that we look to his return with such high hopes.
 

bga1 said:
Unless something changes, he has to be a situational player who gives us 15 minutes of defense when we need it or has a special assignment of stopping the opposition's scoring guard/small forward. He is just terrible on the offensive end and the idea that he brings it up court a lot is just insane. The kid hustles and he has athletic talent- and that is a credit to him.
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Go back and watch the first half again. He was one of the lazy ones out there.
 

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