Note to Brewster - these penalties are embarrassing to watch

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Gold Rush

Gold Rush

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First off, let me just start by saying this was a tremendous football game and
a fun game to watch. Weber really cranked it up a notch (make that 5!) and finally
showed what he can do. He was in such a groove, I really didn't like seeing him
taken out so much for Gray, but whatever, it worked.

I know a lot of others have touched on all the penalties called last night and some
are saying it was due to poor officiating. I thought although it was a little one-sided,
almost every penalty the refs called was legitimate. They didn't make up anything, although
a few were marginal. Many though were right on the money and became painful to
watch.

We have talked at length how this team needs to cut down on stupid penalties. I do not
know of any team that has ever received so many personal foul penalties in one season
with the possible exception of the old Oakland Raiders teams. This is flat out
embarrassing to watch and it almost cost the team a very nice win. Instead of blaming it
on the referees, I blame this on a continued lack of discipline that reflect poorly on
both the coaches as well as the players. This needs to stop right now!!

About 10 years ago, I was seated right behind the Penn St. bench for a Gophers-
Penn St. game. One of their players committed a stupid personal foul penalty - a
cheap shot that got him 15 yards. Not only was he yanked out of the game, Paterno
himself screamed at him for a few minutes and the players went to the end of the bench. He did not go back in. I am not sure what ever happened to him after that, but I have the feeling he
never did it again. On the Gophers team, we have guys committing personal foul penalties
and they stay in for the very next play.

I think Brewster needs to draw the line and crack down on this right now. Actually he should
have done this from the start of the season. He needs to get tough on players who continue to do stupid things out there. Like I said, this was just embarrassing and the announcers were incredulous at the amount and timeliness of penalties, some of which were extremely costly. Gopher fans probably weren't so surprised as we have seen this most games this season.

Until Brewster and staff take a hard line on this, you can expect this to continue because this
team is undisciplined and there doesn't seem to be any fear of accountability. This reflects
poorly against the coaching staff sa well as players. I expect a few penalties every game, but well-coached teams simply do not commit this many penalties.
This is just embarrassing to watch this.

COACH BREWSTER -- DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS RIGHT NOW!!
 

Agreed...big, important win and props to all the GGs, despite horrible team discipline re stupid penalties.

Unlike Joe Pa/PSU, usually Brew can't yank the offenders because the Gs lack depth at key positions, but to his credit, he did bench a starting DB when he blew his coverage assignments.

All I can say about stupid penalties is that they tend to make the whole team look incredibly stupid...on the national TV big stage...from the HC down. Even the BTN guys marveled repeatedly at how strange it was that the Gs were leading throughout most of the game despite an avalanche of dumb penalties.

Horrible...record-setting horrible penalty snafu and a memorable strange game from that point of view.
 

New England Gold

Thanks for the response.

After seeing Brewster yelling at the referees most of the game, I hope that
he doesn't just say, "The referees screwed us over" to the players but instead
really does some soul searching after this and focuses on correcting these problems
with the team.

You do not win too many games where you have this many penalties and next time
it happens, we will probably not be so fortunate. You like to learn from your mistakes
where we didn't get burned rather than learning it the hard way after a painful loss.
 

I think you were watching the wrong game. 1) Roughing the passer: should not have been called, was NOT lack of discipline, 2) Late hit out of bounds should not have been called and was NOT lack of discipline, 3) Celebrating a catch by raising your arms was a totally pathetic call and was NOT lack of discipline.

False Start Penalties: 1) Every team has them 2) We may have more than most 3) I'm sure that all teams work endlessly on this area 4) Most are on one player and his Personal lack of discipline or poor hearing.

Most games have Blocking in the Back or Holding on kick returns: We had None- Must be Good Discipline.
 

Gold Rush...

Thoughtful OP...this "stupid penalty" problem for the Gs has been discussed repeatedly on this board since the start of the season and it's obviously a source of frustration for GHers who would like to see their team get unstuck from the dumb penalty morass.

For those of us preaching patience for Brew as a developing HC coach, team penalty snafus like this in the ninth game of his third year leave us scratching our heads and wondering about his ability to balance his terrific enthusiasm with the necessary team discipline a successful program requires on a longer-term basis.

Three regular season games left. Let's see if HCing makes a difference in this area over that stretch and we can say with confidence...based on field performance...that Brew is making significant progress coaching-wise re the stupid penaly issue.
 


forestlaker.......

No, I was watching the Gopher-MSU game. Your justification that it is all the referees fault
and we have nothing to do with any of these penalties which are completely
unjustified is why we see the same problems game after game.
There is no accountability and we do not learn from it.

We see the same penalties every game, and it has gotten worse as the season has gone
on. This game was the worst penalized game in Gopher history. It gave Michigan St. over 170 free yards.........yeah there DOES need to be something done about it.

I guess maybe when you see it again and it DOES cost us a game you can complain about
all the crooked referees running around, but I say a lot of these penalties are
preventable if the team plays with a little more discipline.
 

Gold Rush...

I hear your frustration...unfortunately we live in a blamer society. Problems affecting us are always someone else's fault...in this case incompetent referees are to blame for G snafus. Our beloved GGs and their coaches are blameless and have no control over their field behavior...shoot the referees.

As you have pointed out, we don't see the well-coached, well-disciplined, higher-tier BT teams that we aspire to like PSU making these stupid penalty mistakes week after week. Their coaches will not tolerate that type of performance on the field.

When the negative GH doomers rag on Brew, this is one area where they have a very legitimate beef regarding his coaching abillity. Unless performance on the field improves with fewer penalties, we will see more criticism of Brew for tolerating this behavior which will eventually lead to some unpleasant and unnecessary, self-inflicted losses imho.
 

I agree on everything you write.....the game was really fun yesterday. But, the Gophers shoulda coulda won big if not for the penalties. Brewster's team has a lack of discipline and he needs to figure out how to dramatically cut the stupid mistakes or he will lose his job. By the way, I have been going to Gopher games for along time and felt at the end of the game for the first time a real home field advantage....the crowd was into it booing the refs, chanting and being loud....I thought it was intimidating as hell!
 

forestlaker said:
2) Late hit out of bounds should not have been called and was NOT lack of discipline
Click to expand...

Yeah, what was up with that one? It was called on Dandridge (#25), wasn't it? I didn't see Dandridge or the penalty when they showed the replay.
 



Loki...

I thought the crowd helped us win yesterday.

Not only was it a big boost for the team, I thought you just might
have helped get us a couple "make up" calls from the referees down
the stretch when we needed it the most!

Good job!!
 

The call on Dandridge was a classic "retaliation" call. The MSU player blocked Dandridge in the back while he was standing out of bounds and the play was over. Dandridge turned around and shoved him. Ref only saw the Dandridge part of the equation and, in fairness to the ref, the play was over by a second or so when the MSU player hit Dandridge so he likely was trying to determine the spot of the ball when he saw Dandridge retaliate.

Understand Dandridge's frustration, but he has to keep his cool there.

I understand the Wills' false starts, but Davis has to work with him on technique so he won't get jumpy when facing quick pass rushers off the edge.

As for yanking guys. When Tinsley lined up off-sides, he got yanked before the next play and he got an earful. Great close-up by the Big Ten network and Butler (I think it was Butler) was all over him. If I read Butler's lips correctly, he said "HOW does that happen?" about three times directly into Tinsley's grill.

There were some bad calls, but a lot of them were obvious. Some of it's lack of discipline. Some of it is lack of a certain skill. I don't lay it all on the coaches though.
 

forestlaker said:
I think you were watching the wrong game. 1) Roughing the passer: should not have been called, was NOT lack of discipline, 2) Late hit out of bounds should not have been called and was NOT lack of discipline, 3) Celebrating a catch by raising your arms was a totally pathetic call and was NOT lack of discipline.
Click to expand...

I completely agree - I felt these were very poor calls.

But, that would be 3 of the 17 and 45 yds of the 157 yds. What is left is still WAY too many. There should not be the illegal motion, illegal shift, off sides, kind of penalties at this point in the season. Those are lack of discipline/lack of focus penalties that go on the players first, and coaches second.

I am OK with the occasional aggressive penalty (like that border line late hit). But the concentration penalties need to stop NOW.
 

I would guess most refs are football junkies because it's a way of being part of the game. They must watch game films, look at game statistics, discuss games with each other, watch other games while waiting to officiate theirs, etc. We've got to have a reputation as an undisciplined team that commits a lot of penalties, some of them quite stupid. I think they're very ready to throw the flag on us based on our past history. I'm not saying it's totally fair, but we're sort of a victim of our past on those calls that are borderline. They're looking for things because our past games have shown we do some of these things quite often: late hit, holding on the edge, retaliation, unsportsmanlike conduct, etc.

Even before Stoudermire got the penalty, I was going, "Oh, no!" There was simply no need for him to go into that pose. Especially, in light of dropping that wide open pass that a lot of GHer's could have held on to. I think there's a case where another team might not have been penalized but we were because of our history. It wasn't a wrong call even if that was the case.

Obviously, it is up to the team to turn this trend around.
 



There were several non-calls on MSU that come to mind:

PF, helmet-to-helmet hit on NTA on the "immaculate deflection"
face mask on NTA's touchdown
holding on Kewshawn "Johnson" Martin's KO return

If referees are so intent on calling every marginal play, then call them on both teams.
 

I see no reason to assume Coach Brewster and his staff don't address the penalty situation with the team and with individual players after every game and during the week.

For a little perspective, Texas Tech has 20 more penalties than the Gophers in the same number of games. Meanwhile, Florida State & Arkansas have the same number of penalties as the Gophers and have played only 8 games. Oklahoma has 2 less penalties in only 8 games.

Last year, USC & Florida were both in the top ten of most penalized teams.

I'm not saying penalties are a good thing. I'm just saying penalties aren't necessarily a sign that good coaches are doing something wrong.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/statistics/team/_/stat/downs/sort/totalPenalties

Go Gophers!
 

Some lack of discipline, many bad calls/non-calls. Regardless, I fully support Brew for calling out the officials. If the B10 is not going to do something, Brew has to stick up for his guys. That is not to say, behind the scenes, Brew shouldn't address the penalties with the lads.
 

Torres9 said:
Some lack of discipline, many bad calls/non-calls. Regardless, I fully support Brew for calling out the officials. If the B10 is not going to do something, Brew has to stick up for his guys. That is not to say, behind the scenes, Brew shouldn't address the penalties with the lads.
Click to expand...

Play the game hard.

LloydChristmas said:
There were several non-calls on MSU that come to mind:

PF, helmet-to-helmet hit on NTA on the "immaculate deflection"
face mask on NTA's touchdown
holding on Kewshawn "Johnson" Martin's KO return

If referees are so intent on calling every marginal play, then call them on both teams.
Click to expand...

Actually, holding and a block in the back, plus a major holding of our corner on the end around play that MSU scored on.

NCAA Penalty Stats:

Penalties per game, Gophers are 83rd (not great), but ahead of such teams as Oregon, Texas, Oklahoma, Utah, Miami.
 

This thread just proves that people will ALWAYS find something to bitch about. If you thought all those calls were legit, and the back judge made the proper call REPEATEDLY from over 30 yards away, good for you. For me, I've NEVER seen a crowd boo for 8 straight plays because the calls were that bad. It was truly historic. NONE of those calls were slam dunk, yep, you have to call that, plays. NONE!
 

forestlaker said:
I think you were watching the wrong game. 1) Roughing the passer: should not have been called, was NOT lack of discipline.
Click to expand...

That was an easy call. The Gopher player (forget who it was already) took a swipe and hit the QB in the face/helmet. To me, that was an easy call, and even seeing it realtime during the game, I agreed with the call.

Note - I agree there were many other terrible calls throughout thte game!!!
 

I was at the game, and have not seen a replay of the broadcast. Was the holding call on the receiver during Gray's TD run, a good call? Live it didn't look like he held, but I was pretty far away.
 

Donovan said:
I was at the game, and have not seen a replay of the broadcast. Was the holding call on the receiver during Gray's TD run, a good call? Live it didn't look like he held, but I was pretty far away.
Click to expand...

if you will still be up (i won't) the minnesota/michigan state game is being replayed at 2:30AM CT on the BTN
 

Watched it several times on DVR'd replay...looked like a legitimate call to me...fortunately the Gs didn't need that 6.
 

seriously?

yet another post about penalties? Get over it. Good thing you are telling a Coach that has been Coaching for over 20 years about Penalties, I am sure he has no idea without your help.
The refs were embarrassing to watch though.
 

Brewster stated on the Sid/Dave Sports Show that the team reviews all penalties at the Sunday meeting. They are not glossed over.

Brewster also stated that he expects his players play with a tremendous amount of enthusiasm and that football is a very emotional game. IMO, he felt that the Stoudamire penalty was unfounded and had nothing to do with the outcome of the game and should not have been called. In retrospect, maybe he should have been called for a penalty for his reaction after dropping the pass when totally wide open.

I found it interesting that T/A made a point to run over to the ref and personally hand the ball to the official on one of his TD's. Smart, especially the way the zebras were reacting to the game.
 

Donovan said:
I was at the game, and have not seen a replay of the broadcast. Was the holding call on the receiver during Gray's TD run, a good call? Live it didn't look like he held, but I was pretty far away.
Click to expand...

It was a holding. The problem to me was that same block was made 3-4 times when MSU was running a bubble screen to Blair White and MSU WR's would block.

Wills' issues have been reported on frequently, but I never saw him move the 2nd time they called him for a false start when it was back to back. Watched it 3 times and I never saw him move. Either it was someone else and they got a wrong number or the refs saw something that didn't occur.

The personal foul penalty on the MSU sideline was a bogus call. The Gopher guy (Dandridge?) didn't do anything that should have warranted a personal foul. He shoved him, but it was on the MSU sideline, and he didn't do it hard. This is where the refs lacked common sense.

Blatant facemask on Tow-Arnett's first TD. At least the ref had a roughing the passer called on the play.

I agree: A lot of the penalties have to stop. The ones that get me are the illegal shifts. And I think it will. I think it's a lot easier for a coaching staff to get through to the players after a win like this; one where the offense was very good and if we (the players) can stop killing themselves, even better things can happen.
 

forestlaker said:
I think you were watching the wrong game. 1) Roughing the passer: should not have been called, was NOT lack of discipline, 2) Late hit out of bounds should not have been called and was NOT lack of discipline, 3) Celebrating a catch by raising your arms was a totally pathetic call and was NOT lack of discipline.

False Start Penalties: 1) Every team has them 2) We may have more than most 3) I'm sure that all teams work endlessly on this area 4) Most are on one player and his Personal lack of discipline or poor hearing.

Most games have Blocking in the Back or Holding on kick returns: We had None- Must be Good Discipline.
Click to expand...


1. WRONG. Simoni Lawrence hit the passer with a forearm to the head.

2. WRONG. Tim Dandridge pushed a Spartan after the whistle about five yards away from the ball.

3. WRONG. Stoudamire glorified himself on the catch by rising his arms to the stands. You are allowed to celebrate with your own players, not make a spectacle of yourself. He is guilty as charged.
 

MNCH said:
1. WRONG. Simoni Lawrence hit the passer with a forearm to the head.

2. WRONG. Tim Dandridge pushed a Spartan after the whistle about five yards away from the ball.

3. WRONG. Stoudamire glorified himself on the catch by rising his arms to the stands. You are allowed to celebrate with your own players, not make a spectacle of yourself. He is guilty as charged.
Click to expand...

1. WRONG. Lawrence made a clean hit

2. WRONG. It should have been a no call on Dandridge

3. WRONG. Stoudamire was proud he caught the ball after his easy drop earlier and was showing the crowd "I caught it!" he was not taunting a defender or showing anyone up. It was a bogus call.
 

bankonit said:
1. WRONG. Lawrence made a clean hit

2. WRONG. It should have been a no call on Dandridge

3. WRONG. Stoudamire was proud he caught the ball after his easy drop earlier and was showing the crowd "I caught it!" he was not taunting a defender or showing anyone up. It was a bogus call.
Click to expand...

:eek:
 


The holding call on Setterstrom was bogus also!
 

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