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imthewalrus

imthewalrus

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At the game today I chanced upon an old friend and a very wise and ever present Golden Gopher Football Follower more commonly referred to around these parts merely by the moniker: The Loon. Loon wanted to know just how the old gang at Gopher Hole feels about those four ooc wins our Golden Gophers picked up now that we find our team sitting with an 8-2 record, headed into a bye week, just waiting for the Badgers to make their way into TCF BANK STADIUM in a couple of weeks. I offered the opinion that at this point in the season no one even ever thinks about who the team played in those first four games...or how they played...or what the scores were. And now, I pose the question to GopherHole posters: "...Does anyone really CARE who those teams were or what those scores were in those ooc games in the luxury of the passage of time and the achievement of bowl eligibility on this day in November? Is anyone really hanging their heads worrying about what anyone else thinks about the quality of those early opponents?

I, of course, also offered the Loon the opinion that the ONLY games that really matter are the Conference games that we currently are competing in and playing...AND...that our Golden Gopher Football Program is currently 4-2 in Conference play, is competing quite nicely within the Conference AND that the ONLY reason those ooc games even matter at all are as add-ons to our Conference record for bowl eligibility purposes. In other words, our 4-2 Conference record plus our 4 ooc wins tells the bowl representatives that our Golden Gopher Football Program IS 8-2 overall at this point in the season.

At any rate, Loon really was curious about the current status of memories and/or opinions the GOPHERHOLE posters have about our ooc games now that the team IS 8-2 and we have only 2 Conference games left prior to our bowl invitation being issued by some bowl committee member! So, I guess I'll just pose the question directly to GopherHole Posters: are some still so pi$$ed off about the philosophy of our coach re: ooc scheduling? Or, would our Team and Program have been better off with a loss or two during that ooc portion of the schedule?

I believe that Loon may still hold the opinion that MORE wins are better than LESS wins when trying to strengthen and build a program. I think that Coach Kill and his staff hold similar opinions...and it would appear that the players on the team have bought into that same notion...BUT, I also realize that some GH Posters were really outspoken in their opinions that the ooc schedule was not adequate and may hurt the team's ability to compete within the Conference.

Wasn't that a fantastic Gopher victory today? Our ooc schedule certainly must have prepared us better this year than at any time during the past forty years or so. It has been a LONG time since our Gophers won FOUR Conference games in a row...
 

One of my main criticisms earlier this season about our OOC schedule is that it did not properly prepare us for conference play. We looked outmanned and outplayed against Iowa and Michigan and I attribute those losses in part to us not being ready for "big boy" competition. I think that once we cut out teeth on those first couple games, we were able to get up off the mat with a sense of what it takes to win in the Big Ten. I would like to see us upgrade our OOC schedule so that we can be ready for conference play right from the start in the future.
 

GopherDieHardDyingHard said:
One of my main criticisms earlier this season about our OOC schedule is that it did not properly prepare us for conference play. We looked outmanned and outplayed against Iowa and Michigan and I attribute those losses in part to us not being ready for "big boy" competition. I think that once we cut out teeth on those first couple games, we were able to get up off the mat with a sense of what it takes to win in the Big Ten. I would like to see us upgrade our OOC schedule so that we can be ready for conference play right from the start in the future.
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http://www.gophersports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/future-schedules.html
 

I will always remain in the camp that until we are competing for a spot in the playoffs where strength of schedule matters...the only thing that we need from the OOC is 4 wins (or 3 once the B1G expands to 9 games).

This ain't BB where 300 plus teams are competing for 68 slots and then, within those 68, for seeds. In the B1G, we are locked into bowl games and they are determined by first, getting to 6 wins and then second, by conference record. The Gator Bowl doesn't care if we beat USC or Wyoming. They care if we are 9-3 and beat NE & WI.

Until someone can give me a single tangible fact that contradicts my position, I shall maintain it.
 

GopherinPhilly said:
Until someone can give me a single tangible fact that contradicts my position, I shall maintain it.
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Well...the bowls do consider how well the fans travel, among other things, thus allowing them to "pick" teams, rather than having a slotted system for each and every bowl game.
 


In light of what we have been able to accomplish in conference play, I doubt many will scrutinize our non-conference schedule. And I accept the likelihood that an 8-2 record most likely serves us better than a 7-3 record when it comes to bowl selection regardless of who we played in our non-conference schedule. I, nevertheless, resent the buy out of the North Carolina home and home series. To me it was humiliating and an inappropriate expenditure. I would rather lose than avoid a challenge.
 

I guess we will have to wait to see what an ooc loss would do to our efforts...

vagopher said:
In light of what we have been able to accomplish in conference play, I doubt many will scrutinize our non-conference schedule. And I accept the likelihood that an 8-2 record most likely serves us better than a 7-3 record when it comes to bowl selection regardless of who we played in our non-conference schedule. I, nevertheless, resent the buy out of the North Carolina home and home series. To me it was humiliating and an inappropriate expenditure. I would rather lose than avoid a challenge.
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to make this a better, more Big Ten (B1G) competitive program during the next few seasons. I still maintain, and will always maintain that we must put ourselves in a position to maximize our Conference wins as we strive to win bowl game invitations. It is the extension of the season that is vital. It is the bowl trips that rewards our student athletes, band members and the all too few loyal fans who try to make as many bowl game trips as is possible. Certainly, bowl committees reward schools that have a LOT of fans who will travel to the bowl games their favorite team is invited to participate in.

This 2013 season is providing my Golden Gopher Football Program to win some more bowl travelers that will eventually entice the bowl organizers to jump my Golden Gophers over other Big Ten Programs that have a win...or two less than my Golden Gophers during some seasons.

Win ALL the ooc games...always. That is rule #1. That will maximize any and every Conference win. THAT will, in turn inspire the bowl committee members to WANT the Golden Gophers AND the Golden Gopher Fan Base. That will reward our great student athletes and marching band members. In the process, more Golden Gopher Fans will discover how much fun a bowl game trip can be...and IS!

Beat wisky!
 

wren - Nice change up but you are still saying the same thing, i.e. "It's all about Big Ten Wins." But enough of celebrating our fourth Big Ten win a row. My wife just told me "It's all about getting those leaves off the lawn before it snows again." Her rules trump your rules.
 

Killjoy said:
wren - Nice change up but you are still saying the same thing, i.e. "It's all about Big Ten Wins." But enough of celebrating our fourth Big Ten win a row. My wife just told me "It's all about getting those leaves off the lawn before it snows again." Her rules trump your rules.
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IF we are a Big Ten Football Program, it always has been and always will be all about the Conference wins. It is how well do we compete with wisky, iowa, Nebraska, Northwestern, Michigan MSU, Purdue, the OSU, Illinois, Indiana the PSU, and soon Rutgers and Maryland. That stuff matters...a LOT. And, if we are going to compete with our conference member schools, MANY of them will be trying to win bowl invitations to reward their student athletes, their marching bands and their fans.

Let the OSU, Nebraska, MSU, Michigan, wisky worry about scheduling "killer" ooc games to enhance their bcs rankings so that they can be sexy candidates for some sort of national championship series. They are most certainly closer to "being there" for that scene than our program currently is. Our program is making GREAT progress at the moment. We need to insure that our program continues to have the chance to make that great progress. The BEST ways and the ONLY ways will be for the U of M program to win as MANY Conference games as possible, enhance that total with our ooc wins and to receive invitations to bowl games.

Being a hero so that the OSU and the other closer to prime time suspects who have been having a bit of success more recently and have poured a LOT into building huge fan bases can be viewed more favorably by the "b.s." bcs committee isn't too smart IF our program ends up with an ooc loss that will hurt the chances of receiving a bowl invitation.

What we have going on right now...this year is FANTASTIC. We need to continue to have 8 win "plus" seasons with as many Conference wins as possible. Will you be attending our bowl game killjoy? Now THAT is something you can actually do to help improve the gopher fan base standing with bowl game committees around the country. I will be there. That's the least I can do to support my Golden Gopher Football Program...and it is always a LOT of fun.

Now, get those leaves cleaned up. Personally, I prefer to just mulch my leaves in the fall and let Mother Nature do what Mother Nature does to leaves processed by a mulching mower.
 



imthewalrus said:
IF we are a Big Ten Football Program, it always has been and always will be all about the Conference wins. It is how well do we compete with wisky, iowa, Nebraska, Northwestern, Michigan MSU, Purdue, the OSU, Illinois, Indiana the PSU, and soon Rutgers and Maryland. That stuff matters...a LOT. And, if we are going to compete with our conference member schools, MANY of them will be trying to win bowl invitations to reward their student athletes, their marching bands and their fans.

Let the OSU, Nebraska, MSU, Michigan, wisky worry about scheduling "killer" ooc games to enhance their bcs rankings so that they can be sexy candidates for some sort of national championship series. They are most certainly closer to "being there" for that scene than our program currently is. Our program is making GREAT progress at the moment. We need to insure that our program continues to have the chance to make that great progress. The BEST ways and the ONLY ways will be for the U of M program to win as MANY Conference games as possible, enhance that total with our ooc wins and to receive invitations to bowl games.

Being a hero so that the OSU and the other closer to prime time suspects who have been having a bit of success more recently and have poured a LOT into building huge fan bases can be viewed more favorably by the "b.s." bcs committee isn't too smart IF our program ends up with an ooc loss that will hurt the chances of receiving a bowl invitation.

What we have going on right now...this year is FANTASTIC. We need to continue to have 8 win "plus" seasons with as many Conference wins as possible. Will you be attending our bowl game killjoy? Now THAT is something you can actually do to help improve the gopher fan base standing with bowl game committees around the country. I will be there. That's the least I can do to support my Golden Gopher Football Program...and it is always a LOT of fun.

Now, get those leaves cleaned up. Personally, I prefer to just mulch my leaves in the fall and let Mother Nature do what Mother Nature does to leaves processed by a mulching mower.
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Finally something you say makes real sense in real life. In fact, wren, I don't even mulch my leaves, I let MN work on them the way they are under the snow. That way, I save even more precious beer drinking time, and I have never killed a lawn doing it that way.
 

The North Carolina buyout bothered me but only because it made us look bad. I was trusting ... hoping really ... that Kill knew what he was doing. And it look like he did. The change to NM St. didn't end up costing anything financially. And, I'm not sure that it is a certainty that we win that UNC game on the road despite our record now vs their record. A loss there and maybe this season takes a different turn. call it cowardly or defeatist or whatever but it has worked out just as Kill planned.
 

jags1998 said:
The North Carolina buyout bothered me but only because it made us look bad. I was trusting ... hoping really ... that Kill knew what he was doing. And it look like he did. The change to NM St. didn't end up costing anything financially. And, I'm not sure that it is a certainty that we win that UNC game on the road despite our record now vs their record. A loss there and maybe this season takes a different turn. call it cowardly or defeatist or whatever but it has worked out just as Kill planned.
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Let's not get back to this cussing discussion. There are several previous threads about it.
 

I agree that the Big Ten is the thing - in future we seem to have one strong NC opponent and that's enough for me (also, frankly, I miss the Loon, who was a victim of political correctness, as I remember). If you look at bowl eligibility and top 25 rankings, it's all simple arithmetic - those without losses are first, then those with one loss, then two, etc. So I'm not in favor of overloading the NC with tough teams. We have to climb over Nebraska, Wisconsin, NW and Iowa to get to the top of the West - that's tough enough. As to Kill & company, I hope they will be around a long time, including Coach Claeys (regardless of how we do in the next two games).
 



imthewalrus said:
At the game today I chanced upon an old friend and a very wise and ever present Golden Gopher Football Follower more commonly referred to around these parts merely by the moniker: The Loon. Loon wanted to know just how the old gang at Gopher Hole feels about those four ooc wins our Golden Gophers picked up now that we find our team sitting with an 8-2 record, headed into a bye week, just waiting for the Badgers to make their way into TCF BANK STADIUM in a couple of weeks. I offered the opinion that at this point in the season no one even ever thinks about who the team played in those first four games...or how they played...or what the scores were. And now, I pose the question to GopherHole posters: "...Does anyone really CARE who those teams were or what those scores were in those ooc games in the luxury of the passage of time and the achievement of bowl eligibility on this day in November? Is anyone really hanging their heads worrying about what anyone else thinks about the quality of those early opponents?

I, of course, also offered the Loon the opinion that the ONLY games that really matter are the Conference games that we currently are competing in and playing...AND...that our Golden Gopher Football Program is currently 4-2 in Conference play, is competing quite nicely within the Conference AND that the ONLY reason those ooc games even matter at all are as add-ons to our Conference record for bowl eligibility purposes. In other words, our 4-2 Conference record plus our 4 ooc wins tells the bowl representatives that our Golden Gopher Football Program IS 8-2 overall at this point in the season.

At any rate, Loon really was curious about the current status of memories and/or opinions the GOPHERHOLE posters have about our ooc games now that the team IS 8-2 and we have only 2 Conference games left prior to our bowl invitation being issued by some bowl committee member! So, I guess I'll just pose the question directly to GopherHole Posters: are some still so pi$$ed off about the philosophy of our coach re: ooc scheduling? Or, would our Team and Program have been better off with a loss or two during that ooc portion of the schedule?

I believe that Loon may still hold the opinion that MORE wins are better than LESS wins when trying to strengthen and build a program. I think that Coach Kill and his staff hold similar opinions...and it would appear that the players on the team have bought into that same notion...BUT, I also realize that some GH Posters were really outspoken in their opinions that the ooc schedule was not adequate and may hurt the team's ability to compete within the Conference.

Wasn't that a fantastic Gopher victory today? Our ooc schedule certainly must have prepared us better this year than at any time during the past forty years or so. It has been a LONG time since our Gophers won FOUR Conference games in a row...
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Was there a question in this drivel?
 

vagopher said:
In light of what we have been able to accomplish in conference play, I doubt many will scrutinize our non-conference schedule. And I accept the likelihood that an 8-2 record most likely serves us better than a 7-3 record when it comes to bowl selection regardless of who we played in our non-conference schedule. I, nevertheless, resent the buy out of the North Carolina home and home series. To me it was humiliating and an inappropriate expenditure. I would rather lose than avoid a challenge.
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I did not like the way the UNC Chapel Hill fiasco was handled either. Yet I cannot argue with success, and I believe 4 Big Ten wins in 2013 meets or exceeds everybody's expectations back in August 2013. Also, it is not a given that we would have defeated the Tar Heels. It seems that this 2013 edition of the Minnesota Golden Gopher football team did not gel until the road trip to Evanston. Before that, we were vacillating between running backs and quarterbacks. It took 1/2 season for David Cobb to emerge. It took 1/2 season for the light to come on for Philip Nelson. By that, I mean that the light came on for him that all turnovers are bad, regardless of whether they are fumbles or throwing an interception. I don't think that Nelson has had a single turn over since the Michigan game. Quite frankly, I don't even remember if he took any snaps against Michigan, or whether he was still injured. Regardless, the time Philip spent on the bench / sidelines apparently worked wonders for him. When Philip does not turn the ball over, we win games. It is that simple. These young men are maturing, physically, and with the play book. It just seems that things are starting to click now. When players get injured, we reload without a huge drop off in competence. That is a luxury we have not enjoyed for many many years. So yes, with 20/20 hindsight I agree that Jerry Kill did the right thing removing UNC from the schedule, but at the time, I did not like it. It really smelled like we were running away from competition. I defer to Coach Kill's judgment, and to Loon's judgment. The Loon and I had a similar conversation a couple of months ago via email, and though I did not like what he told me, I see his wisdom. Wish I was there with you in TCF Bank Stadium on Saturday, 9 November 2013.
 

Great Plains Gopher said:
(also, frankly, I miss the Loon, who was a victim of political correctness, as I remember).
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I never met Loon but I thought he had very good insight into football and I always enjoyed his analysis. I don't follow any one poster that closely but if I remember right, Loon was kicked off of the board for putting forth the opinion that, in general, black players are faster than white players. Maybe there was more that was worse but if there was I don't remember it.

Was Loon banned forever? If not, I think we should forgive and forget and welcome him back.
 

diefirma said:
I never met Loon but I thought he had very good insight into football and I always enjoyed his analysis. I don't follow any one poster that closely but if I remember right, Loon was kicked off of the board for putting forth the opinion that, in general, black players are faster than white players. Maybe there was more that was worse but if there was I don't remember it.

Was Loon banned forever? If not, I think we should forgive and forget and welcome him back.
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That episode might have been the excuse that the operators of GopherHole employed to throw him off this website, but I think the real reason lie in the fact that The Loon has always been a Glen O. Mason apologist, and the organized crime elements who engineered the "Fire Mason" chants and the hiring of Tim Brewster simply wanted to squash The Loon because he was making too much sense and he was embarrassing these same organized crime elements who were destroying Golden Gopher Football. Having said all this, I confess that I am a huge Glen O. Mason fan, and I was most angry that he was fired. We journeyed through the wasteland for several years before Jerry Kill and his staff arrived and started working to "right the ship." I am happy where we are at now, the direction Jerry Kill and his staff have us moving, and I believe The Loon is too. I think it was disengenuous that The Loon was banned from this board. His forced departure illustrates clearly that "Freedom of Speech" is not something anybody can take for granted. Just exactly what did he say that was not truth?
 

He and Wren were outraged when Mason was fired. Its been long enough, I also would welcome him back.
 

I would welcome loon back long, long, long, before pantherfawk.
 

diefirma said:
I never met Loon but I thought he had very good insight into football and I always enjoyed his analysis. I don't follow any one poster that closely but if I remember right, Loon was kicked off of the board for putting forth the opinion that, in general, black players are faster than white players. Maybe there was more that was worse but if there was I don't remember it.

Was Loon banned forever? If not, I think we should forgive and forget and welcome him back.
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You know, I agree with you. I will not attempt to speak for Loon...and...I have no idea if Loon would have any interest in posting on this site at this time or at any time in the future. I certainly wouldn't blame him if he did not. For all the grief and harassment he was given by some posters on this board, I am sure he has much better things to do with his time. Yet, I do know what a great Golden Gopher Football Fan he is. I know he follows a number of Golden Gopher Sports Teams quite closely. Perhaps, some around here don't like the fact that he is direct and he does respond to comments he does not agree with. I do know he is a good man. I also know that he IS a very astute football fan and that he is direct and straight forward about saying what he thinks. He tolerates no nonsense and he has a very logical way of analyzing situations as they may relate to Golden Gopher Football. I think this site lost a great contributor when it lost Loon and his takes on the University of Minnesota Football Program. But, I am not here to either praise Loon, or to forget Loon. I had the good fortune to see Loon at the Penn State game and I merely passed along a question to GOPHERHOLE that he had. It was good to visit with him...and...he had many interesting points about the game, and the current state of Minnesota Golden Gopher Football Program.

Thank you to everyone as you may or may not respond to this question of the scheduling of early season non-conference games. I do think it is interesting to hear what people have to say at THIS point during THIS season when we ARE sitting at 8-2 during a bye week prior to entertaining the wisky badgers. The suspense and excitement of the border battle, coupled with the possibilities that may be presented to this team...this program...this fan base from bowl representatives following the completion of the BIG TEN (B1G) Football Season. It is a TOUGH Conference season. Just how would people be feeling IF we had lost one...or two ooc games prior to heading into Big Ten play. Indiana lost a couple of ooc games. wisky lost an ooc game. Nebraska lost an ooc game. MSU lost an ooc game. My Golden Gopher Football Program did NOT lose an ooc game in 2013. I KNOW how I feel about this situation...

Remember people: this program NEEDS invitations to bowl games so that it can continue to become MORE competitive within the CONFERENCE. (That is my take on the situation, any way...)
 

Very interesting stuff. The one thing that seems consistent among the posts is non-conference schedule as it relates to bowl eligibility and selection. I suggest we align with the coaching staff, which I believe is trying to win a B1G title. If the NC schedule is a tad light, it's less about making sure we win and more about not getting beat up. It will take more than a B1G title to change the national perspective and our BCS worthiness. Somewhere down the road a tougher NC schedule would matter to get us in the playoff.
 

imthewalrus said:
So, I guess I'll just pose the question directly to GopherHole Posters: are some still so pi$$ed off about the philosophy of our coach re: ooc scheduling? Or, would our Team and Program have been better off with a loss or two during that ooc portion of the schedule?
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Are you and Loon pissed that Kill is putting cracks in the Gophers' glass ceiling?
 

Plinnius said:
Are you and Loon pissed that Kill is putting cracks in the Gophers' glass ceiling?
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plinnius...plinnius...plinnius: what kind of a plinnius are you any way? I have been a Golden Gopher Football fan for WELL over half a century. Iwas 13 years old the last time my Golden Gophers won a NC. I've been cheering my Golden Gopher Footballers on and have been buying season tickets, making contributions and going to road games and bowl games for a hell of a long time now.

I don't want the Coach and his staff and my Gopher Football Team to crack the glass ceiling...I want them to BUST THROUGH and win any and EVERY game they ever play! The wisest Gopher Fan I ever have iknown told me long ago that the ONLY WAY the Gophers could rise above their situation was with WINS. ANY kind of win is a GREAT win. EVERY win helps...while conversely, every loss hurts. Wins during the ooc portion of the schedule added to wins during the Conference portion of the schedule will win us bowl invitations. The bowl committees will pass us up for programs that they KNOW will travel to their cities to put butts in the beds, in the restaurants, in the stadium for their bowl game. SO, my Golden Gopher Football Program needs ALL the wins they can get. They had a few seasons where they won ENOUGH games to go to some bowl games and even beat some storied programs like Alabama, Arkansas and Oregon in those bowl games. Still, they could have qualified for higher pecking order bowl games IF the fans would have had a history of buying tickets. That only starts happening when the team wins MORE games. But, they got enough to bring football back on campus. That gives my GGFP another advantage that it did NOT have during the wilderness walking era of the damn dome. Last Saturday, we saw a "HOME FIELD" advantage over PSU.

I want to see the Gophers win EVERY game they play plinnius. I wouldn't have been involved and buying season tickets all this time if that was not my goal. You ask a pretty damn foolish question plinnius...pretty damn foolish of you...
 

Our OOC schedule is fine for now but if we ever want to get passed the proverbial "hump" of mediocrity, we need to play a stronger OOC schedule and win our bowl games. And i think the BIG in general needs to do that, as it, IMO, has contributed to the perceived softness of the B1G. We need to start whippin butts of the SEC again in order to re-elevate our status in the eyes of recruits and also the voters and i think that starts with a strong OOC schedule Solid conference W-L and a bowl WIN and subsequent high ranking.

I think that we stumbled against Iowa because we played our cake OOC. It took awhile for us to get used to the B1G game. I htink a stronger OOC will have us more prepared to play in the conference season going forward. We built a solid foundation but lets step up to the feeding trough of the big boys.
 

If I recall correctly, the reason Loon got his walking papers has nothing to do with what he thinks of the Gophers OOC schedule and everything to do with acting like a raging anti-Semite on the football forum.
 

GopherRock said:
If I recall correctly, the reason Loon got his walking papers has nothing to do with what he thinks of the Gophers OOC schedule and everything to do with acting like a raging anti-Semite on the football forum.
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This^^^

And to answer your question Wren, yes, it the gopher had let's say, lost to a good FBS team in the ooc game, I believe they would have beaten either Iowa or michigan, perhaps both leading to at least an equal 8-2 record, perhaps a better 9-1 record....
 

No the Big Ten is soft t-docious because it has struggled to recruit against the SEC namely. The non-conference schedule becomes less important with another Big Ten game on the schedule because you cant get beat up before the conference season even begins. I like the expanded schedule for football but with every game counting you need tune ups so you are ready to play. In the past most teams wanted at least one good test before the conference season began. I am not sure that is going to be an option in the future. That or teams are going to push for games against the bottom 1 or 2 in each major conference.
 

Loon needs to stay banned, along with his "buddy" Wren a/k/a "mobbers and bashers". Sayanora to them both.
 


Maverick said:
This^^^

And to answer your question Wren, yes, it the gopher had let's say, lost to a good FBS team in the ooc game, I believe they would have beaten either Iowa or michigan, perhaps both leading to at least an equal 8-2 record, perhaps a better 9-1 record....
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You THINK????? You THINK? The thing is, had that team been an iowa-like team OR a Michigan-esque team we would have LOST to that team, the first time we ran up against a tougher foe, IF...if, if,if your assumption is based upon anything other than what you "think." So, basically we'd be still sitting with a loss or two. And then there would still be NO guarantee playing a border battle trophy game against iowa or a trophy game at the Big House in Ann Arbor. How many times in the past fifty years or so...or EVER have we won in Ann Arbor?

Who knows, at THAT point in the season, had the ooc schedule been more difficult, the Gophers could be sitting at four and four or five and three right now. Let the big dogs of the conference worry about bcs "bs. My Golden Gophers need WINS in the ooc to add to their Conference wins to max out their bowl prospects...

this program needs to WIN it's way better for four or five or maybe ten years before we have to worry about carrying the water for Michigan, Nebraska, the Ohio State, MSU, wisky and even iowa. We are making progress. We need to make a LOT more progress in the near term future.
 

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