Northwestern: Pregame Thread

Donate To GopherHole

BleedGopher said:
Tom Powers: OverKill: We get it that the Gophers are young

Time out! On behalf of, well, everybody, let me just say that we get it, OK? Geez, it's like getting hit in the head with a frying pan over and over. Look, nobody really thought the Gophers were going to the Rose Bowl this season. The 4-0 start was lovely and got fans excited. Combine the fast start with a fresh new beer garden and it's almost like there's a major college football program around here.

But deep down, nobody is expecting miracles. The loss to Iowa didn't shake the faith of Gopher Nation. People are smart enough to know that these things take time. So relax, Jerry. Nobody is angry. We get it that the team is young. In fact, it seems as if various coaches have been saying that for the past 10 years. These Gophers never age! Players come and go but the overall team stays remarkably young. There's a Stephen King novel in there somewhere.

According to my calculations, Kill referred to his team's youth nine times during his Tuesday news conference.

http://www.twincities.com/gophers/c...rce=rss&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Go Gophers!!
Click to expand...

+1,000,000 I know it is the company line but Jerry is starting to look foolish going to it so often.
 

Amen. I don't care how young they are, I just want to see them play with some intensity.
 

Just read the actual story beyond the part that was posted on the board. I found this part really interesting:

Just a couple of minor things, though. Youth doesn't always excuse poor play. If a kid is hampered by inexperience, that's one thing. If he lines up in the wrong place or misses an assignment after months of practice, that's quite another. There were instances of both against Iowa.

The other thing is that if the Gophers keep reading about how young they are, they might lower their own expectations. Imagine some kid getting beat on a long pass and then telling his coach on the sideline: "Hey, I'm young."

"I don't think we look too much into the age thing as far as playing goes," safety Brock Vereen said. "As Coach Kill said, you play hard and it doesn't matter how old you are. And we have been living by that."

Powers makes a great point about youth vs. poor play and I thought it was interesting that Kill is preaching one thing to the players and another to the public. Got to think that is a little strange for the players being told youth doesn't matter and then listening to their coach talk about it like it is a major issue every time he opens his mouth since the Iowa game.
 



CBS: Northwestern Wildcats at Minnesota Golden Gophers: Preview, prediction, TV info

The game comes down to: Can Minnesota contain Colter? Minnesota has generated a respectable 11 sacks through five games and must pressure the pocket to prevent Colter or QB Trevor Siemian time to find space. Penn State used a diverse coverage scheme and elite pass rush to disrupt the Wildcats, but Minnesota is not nearly as talented.

Prediction: Northwestern 34, Minnesota 20

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...-minnesota-gophers-preview-prediction-tv-info

Go Gophers!!
 

Re: Powers article

It was a stupid article. Kill is so much smarter than powers and the rest of the media it's ridiculous. To expect him to tell his team the same thing he tell's the media is absolutely stupid and clueless. The way the twin cities media and a lot of Gopher football fans react to the Iowa game forces him to respond the way he does so that maybe they'll start to understand it if he says it 50 times. He also doesn't care what he says to the media, what he cares about is what he says to his team, and I guarantee they know that. People need to tamper down their expectations and just sit back and enjoy the process. They need to try being positive a little more and not so negative the second this team faces a little adversity. If these coaches and players had anywhere near the mentality some of the media and fans do they would have thrown in the towel almost before they started. So hey Tom Powers, get a little bit of a clue because coach Kill is spot on and you're spotty at best. You missed the mark yet again, by a million miles.
 






BleedGopher said:
Tom Powers: OverKill: We get it that the Gophers are young

Time out! On behalf of, well, everybody, let me just say that we get it, OK? Geez, it's like getting hit in the head with a frying pan over and over. Look, nobody really thought the Gophers were going to the Rose Bowl this season. The 4-0 start was lovely and got fans excited. Combine the fast start with a fresh new beer garden and it's almost like there's a major college football program around here.

But deep down, nobody is expecting miracles. The loss to Iowa didn't shake the faith of Gopher Nation. People are smart enough to know that these things take time. So relax, Jerry. Nobody is angry. We get it that the team is young. In fact, it seems as if various coaches have been saying that for the past 10 years. These Gophers never age! Players come and go but the overall team stays remarkably young. There's a Stephen King novel in there somewhere.

According to my calculations, Kill referred to his team's youth nine times during his Tuesday news conference.

http://www.twincities.com/gophers/c...rce=rss&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Go Gophers!!
Click to expand...

Dumb, dumb article.
Kill is doing what all good coaches do. He's relieving pressure from his team publicly by reducing expectations and elevating pressure on them privately to expect more from themselves. They're better off under the radar at this point due to their youth than getting pat on the back every 10 feet on campus talking about 10 wins and a rose bowl berth.

The general media in this town simply has no clue how to handle college football.
They all look at football through an NFL lens. The fact is that college coaches are more likely to have their finger on the pulse of their team and motivate them in more deliberate ways than NFL coaches who are basically player ego managers.

The snarky tidbits included about almost having a major college team in town and that coaches having been preaching youth for 10 years is just more proof that Powers couldn't possibly understand what Kill is up to.
 

Ole said:
Dumb, dumb article.
Kill is doing what all good coaches do. He's relieving pressure from his team publicly by reducing expectations and elevating pressure on them privately to expect more from themselves. They're better off under the radar at this point due to their youth than getting pat on the back every 10 feet on campus talking about 10 wins and a rose bowl berth.

The general media in this town simply has no clue how to handle college football.
They all look at football through an NFL lens. The fact is that college coaches are more likely to have their finger on the pulse of their team and motivate them in more deliberate ways than NFL coaches who are basically player ego managers.

The snarky tidbits included about almost having a major college team in town and that coaches having been preaching youth for 10 years is just more proof that Powers couldn't possibly understand what Kill is up to.
Click to expand...

Great post Ole!!
 





MNVCGUY said:
If you buy into the current line on this board in regards to youth vs. experience we are in a lot of trouble on Saturday because their roster is full of Juniors and Seniors.
Click to expand...

On the popular topic of how yoing the Gophers are, I looked at the depth charts from the respective official sites. I simply counted the number of individual players (there are some repeats on special teams) across the entire 2-deep based on Jr/Sr eligibility.

Seniors: Northwestern 11, Minnesota 10 (Gray is not listed, so this would be 11 if he plays)
Juniors: Northwestern 14, Minnesota 16

I don't see any difference here. Saying that the Gophers are younger in the trenches is accurate, but not really overall.
 

Catechol said:
On the popular topic of how yoing the Gophers are, I looked at the depth charts from the respective official sites. I simply counted the number of individual players (there are some repeats on special teams) across the entire 2-deep based on Jr/Sr eligibility.

Seniors: Northwestern 11, Minnesota 10 (Gray is not listed, so this would be 11 if he plays)
Juniors: Northwestern 14, Minnesota 16

I don't see any difference here. Saying that the Gophers are younger in the trenches is accurate, but not really overall.
Click to expand...

Three Seniors on the Offensive Line; Two Seniors on the Defensive Line. Nuff said.

NU starts 9 Seniors on both sides; Gophers, 6. ONE on offensive this Saturday. I would take THREE Seniors on the O-Line any day.

It's not really even close. The difference is in the trench positions, which is where age makes the most difference.

Side note: Three of the "Juniors" you're counting on the Gophers 2-deeps are JUCO's, playing their first year of BT football.

Further more: EVERY SINGLE PLAYER on the Northwestern defense is listed as having Redshirted. HUGE
 

@GophersNow: #Gophers have about 1,500 seats available in TCF's general seating and about 1,000 in student section for #Northwestern homecoming game.

Go Gophers!!
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
Three Seniors on the Offensive Line; Two Seniors on the Defensive Line. Nuff said.

NU starts 9 Seniors on both sides; Gophers, 6. ONE on offensive this Saturday. I would take THREE Seniors on the O-Line any day.

It's not really even close. The difference is in the trench positions, which is where age makes the most difference.

Side note: Three of the "Juniors" you're counting on the Gophers 2-deeps are JUCO's, playing their first year of BT football.

Further more: EVERY SINGLE PLAYER on the Northwestern defense is listed as having Redshirted. HUGE
Click to expand...

Just add to your post, NW also has experienced upperclassmen at RB and WR. RB Mark is a junior and their leading WR is a senior (Fields). We have one upperclassmen at RB who is a JUCO, and three at WR. Barker is a walk-on who had just one catch coming into this season in his career. Engel had no catches in his career coming into this season. Our only senior WR can't ever get healthy so he hardly plays.

Seems to be on defense that we either have a lot of experience at a certain position or hardly any at all. Good experience at CB, but hardly any at S (Vereen is a senior but playing S for the first time). Tons of experience at LB (probably our weakest area), but DL is young: 1 SR, 2 JR (one is a JUCO, another has changed positions twice since joining team), 3 SO, and 2 true freshman.

Of the seniors, three have been hurt: Gray, Vereen, and Green. Rallis changed positions because he pretty much had to and is totally over matched. Stoudermire is still fairly new to defense. Vereen is at a new position.
 

LOL

Catechol said:
On the popular topic of how yoing the Gophers are, I looked at the depth charts from the respective official sites. I simply counted the number of individual players (there are some repeats on special teams) across the entire 2-deep based on Jr/Sr eligibility.

Seniors: Northwestern 11, Minnesota 10 (Gray is not listed, so this would be 11 if he plays)
Juniors: Northwestern 14, Minnesota 16

I don't see any difference here. Saying that the Gophers are younger in the trenches is accurate, but not really overall.
Click to expand...

You should be in politics the way you use numbers. It is about starters and second stringers and at what positions. Without that your numbers are useless.
 

The other thing is that if the Gophers keep reading about how young they are, they might lower their own expectations. Imagine some kid getting beat on a long pass and then telling his coach on the sideline: "Hey, I'm young."
Click to expand...


Fallacy of division, thinking that if something is true of the whole, it must be true of the parts. The Gophers as a whole are a young team, but that doesn't make the individual players any younger. Coaches do expect more out of seniors, but stating the fact that this is a young team doesn't in any way give the younger players any greater excuse for their play.

Funny that when the reporters ask the same questions, they get the same answers.
 

Killjoy said:
You should be in politics the way you use numbers. It is about starters and second stringers and at what positions. Without that your numbers are useless.
Click to expand...

What did I say? "I simply counted the numbers..." I never said it was an in depth analysis of experience at every position. You should be in politics for senselessly attacking what are openly disclosed as simple facts, and then making an assertion (it's all about the starters..) that you don't back up with your own analysis.

@GophersInIowa: "NW also has experienced upperclassmen at RB" Stoudermire is still fairly new to defense."

Our starting RB is a 3rd year junior who did not play RB (basically only returned kicks) until this year. The other Jr. played 1/3 of last year before going out with an ACL. I wouldn't say it is an "experienced upperclassmen" RB platoon compared to 3rd year Kirkwood and 3rd year Gillum (who had hundreds of carries in Juco). As for Stoudermire, per his bio it looks like he started at least 10 games at CB before this year, and played some CB his freshman year too so he is not really new to defense.

@Ogee: "Further more: EVERY SINGLE PLAYER on the Northwestern defense is listed as having Redshirted."

Not true - Dean Lowry at Traveon Henry are both true frosh on the 2 deep, and Will Hampton did not redshirt. Perhaps all the "starters" (which doesn't mean a whole lot on D since there is so much rotation) have redshirted.

Bottom line, Gophers are young on the offensive line which is a big deal. But even the defensive front 7, at each position on the 2 deep there is at least one third year player. Furthermore lots of underclassmen played last year too, so some of those "young" guys have more real game experience than other teams with lots of redshirts.
 

Catechol

Catechol said:
What did I say? "I simply counted the numbers..." I never said it was an in depth analysis of experience at every position. You should be in politics for senselessly attacking what are openly disclosed as simple facts, and then making an assertion (it's all about the starters..) that you don't back up with your own analysis.
Click to expand...

That was my point, you "simply counted the numbers" which has little or no analysis value and can easily lead to wrong conclusions. As far as your second statement that I didn't back up with my own analysis because I wasn't stated any conclusions other than your analysis method had little or no value. But I will respond to your point with the following analysis:

The following is the offense depth chart for the September 29th game against Iowa:

QB - Shortell (So), Nelson (Fr)
TB - Kirkwood (So), Maye (Fr)
HB - Rabe (Sr), Henry (Jr)
Slot - Jones (So), Engel (Jr)
WR - Fruecte (So), Greeen (Sr)
WR - Crawford-Tuft (So), McDonald (Fr)/Barker (Jr)
TE - Goodger (So), Alex Bisch (So)
OT - Ed Olson (Jr), Lenkiewicz (So)
G - Christenson (Fr), Bjorklund (Fr)
C - Epping (So), Mottla (Jr)
G - Caleb Bak (So), Jonah Pirsig (Fr)
OT - Campion (Fr), Heifort (Fr)

The total for the fist string offense are one senior, one junior, eight sophomores, and two freshmen. For the second string there is one senior, four juniors, two sophomores, and five freshmen.

The defense is older but is still very young compared to other teams. People may not like it when Kill says this is young team. I personally I also think Kill is wrong because is not just a young team but a VERY young team.

Try doing the same thing with Northwestern's offense and then tell me what your conclusions are.
 


@Dave_Dahl: Still looking for the most #rain in over 2 months on Saturday in the #TwinCities. #Tommies & #Gophers #homecoming games probably wet fields!

Go Gophers!!
 

per Sid:

One person convinced he will play against Northwestern for the Gophers football team Saturday is quarterback MarQueis Gray, who has missed the past three games because of a left high-ankle sprain. He might not be 100 percent, but he wants to try it against the Wildcats for sure. If Gray plays, that will be good news for the Gophers. In a 28-13 loss to Northwestern last year, he rushed 27 times for 160 yards and one touchdown.

• The Gophers will surely try to duplicate what Penn State did in beating Northwestern 39-28 on Saturday by controlling the ball for 39 minutes, 17 seconds of the 60-minute game. A year ago the Wildcats were one of the top passing teams in the county, but currently they are ranked 95th in the country in passing with 199 yards per game, or about 55 yards per game lower than last year. However, their running game will test the Gophers -- the Wildcats rank 14th in the nation at 233.5 yards per game. ... Look for the Gophers to put some more discount tickets on sale for the game, which isn't close to being sold out.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/173591931.html?page=2&c=y

Go Gophers!!
 




Killjoy said:
That was my point, you "simply counted the numbers" which has little or no analysis value and can easily lead to wrong conclusions.
Click to expand...

Dear self-appointed arbiter of "analysis value,"

Never did I claim to provide an in depth analysis. I was only responding to the following non-analytical post by MNVCGUY:

"If you buy into the current line on this board in regards to youth vs. experience we are in a lot of trouble on Saturday because their roster is full of Juniors and Seniors."

Which, to address the implication of being full of Jr/Srs in comparison to Minnesota, only required counting the # of Jrs/Srs on each depth chart.

Further, in the pot-kettle-black category, you made the following statement while providing no data or analysis: "The defense is older but is still very young compared to other teams." Where's the proof of that?
 

per Shama:

Expect MarQueis Gray to Play Saturday
October 10, 2012 - (0) comments



Unless MarQueis Gray has a setback in recovering from his ankle sprain and knee injury, the opinion here is the senior quarterback will see game action on Saturday when the Gophers play Northwestern at TCF Bank Stadium.

Minnesota coach Jerry Kill said yesterday he is “cautiously optimistic” Gray will “possibly” be available for spot duty. Kill didn’t elaborate as to when and how much Gray might play. “He’s still running a little bit with a limp,” said Kill.

The coach reported Gray didn’t practice last week but did on Sunday. If Gray is to participate on Saturday, he will need to practice the balance of this week.

He hasn’t played since being injured on September 15 against Western Michigan. The Gophers are 1-1 without him as the starting quarterback. He is one of college football’s better running quarterbacks and Kill’s guarded optimism about Gray playing on Saturday sends a message to Northwestern coaches they need to prepare for two types of Minnesota quarterbacks. Max Shortell is a lumbering runner, inferior to Gray, but a superior passer.

Gray averages 5.2 yards per rush. Shortell averages 2.3. Gray has thrown five touchdown passes and is averaging 132.7 passing yards per game. Shortell’s numbers are six TD passes and 172 yards per game.

How effective will Gray perform Saturday? Physical stamina and also timing on passes will be two major concerns after missing the Syracuse game September 22 and Iowa game September 29, and not practicing during Minnesota’s bye week last week.

The Gophers’ offense is neither as versatile nor effective without Gray. Minnesota has produced just four touchdowns in its last two games.

Gray is one of the Big Ten’s better athletes. He probably will make an NFL team one day as a receiver. Unfortunately for the Gophers he’s been sidelined more so far this season than any starting quarterback in the Big Ten.

Look for his comeback to begin on Saturday, limited as it may be.

http://shamasportsheadliners.com/

Go Gophers!!
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom