Northwestern Players Want a Union

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Wow dpo, you beat me to the salary cap thing while I was typing it...
 

dpodoll68 said:
Here's the hypocrisy I don't think anyone in this thread mentioned. The main thrust of the NLRB ruling was that the NCAA is engaging in unfair labor practices because they are placing a ceiling on salaries in the form of the maximum prescribed amounts institutions can give for scholarships. I assume that, based on this ruling, professional athletes will soon be suing their respective professional leagues because those same leagues have salary caps that dictate salary ceilings for individual players?
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Only the NBA has a cap on how much an individual player an earn.
 

imthewalrus said:
IF I were to ever cease to renew my season tickets for my Golden Gopher Football Team it would probably be because of the OUTRAGEOUS sums of money that head coaches and coordinators are granted by totally OVERPAID athletic directors and administrators and are rubber-stamped by the Regents.

Just recently the athletic director at the Ohio State (who earns almost a million dollars per year) earned an $18,000.00 bonus because one of the school's wrestlers earned distinctions in his sport. This athletic director gets bonus money any time any athlete receives honors of distinction (All-American, etc) and brings positive attention to the sport and the school. The last time I heard, wrestling doesn't generate much of any income and in fact loses money when all expenses are considered. But, still this greedy athletic director got paid $18,000.00 because of this student athlete's great accomplishments. Some how this just does NOT seem right. There is TOO MUCH money going to coaches and athletic directors and you people get all bent out of shape because the student athletes at Northwestern are SMART enough to push the power structure of NCAA Athletics a little bit?

Too many coaches and athletic directors are just robbing the system blind. These multi-million dollar contracts and extensions of contracts for coaches and the outrageous bonus packages even the overpaid athletic directors are paying themselves because of the outstanding accomplishments of select student athletes puts what these bright student athletes at NU are fighting for in just a bit different perspective. I say: "...more power to the student athletes..." as they push on the fat-cats sitting in the athletics director's offices, the prexy's offices and the coaches offices. In a system that showers the coaches, athletic directors, prexys and the staffs of these classes of people, just WHY shouldn't the student athletes have a seat at the table that divides ALL that B1G Network, Final Four and National Championship play-off tv money to line their own pockets. Too much of it goes into the direct deposit accounts of the coaches and athletic directors right now. What good are the darn athletic directors and coaches without the players? Who gets the concussions...the blown-out knees...all the injuries? Not the athletic director, that's for sure.

Power to the student athletes! ; 0 )
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When you post walrus, the average IQ on this board goes down considerably.

First off, the people we're talking about are student-athletes. In that order. You chastise every coach for not graduating enough player or not holding them accountable.....blah, blah, blah.

The real facts are that most athletes will get their free education, and go in to another line of work - in the professional business world. Do you really think the unions give a rats a$$ about the students? No, they're after their money so they can get money in their coffers to pay the exorbitant salaries of the union leadership. All this talk about medical, practices, treatment, etc is just a smokescreen to push for higher wages; thus higher union dues.

It's ironic this thing is coming out of Illinois. Check to see how they're doing financially as a state. Idiots in charge pushing through idiotic legislation.

I've been in private business long enough to see the damage a lot of unions have done. Look at Detroit. Still can't make a decent automobile. But the union cronies are doing just fine until everybody else's money runs out.

I'm sure walrus, you've never worked a day in your life so you don't know what I'm talking about. Perhaps you could be a writer for the Star Tribune. They'd really appreciate your long diatribes about nothing.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Here's the hypocrisy I don't think anyone in this thread mentioned. The main thrust of the NLRB ruling was that the NCAA is engaging in unfair labor practices because they are placing a ceiling on salaries in the form of the maximum prescribed amounts institutions can give for scholarships. I assume that, based on this ruling, professional athletes will soon be suing their respective professional leagues because those same leagues have salary caps that dictate salary ceilings for individual players?
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I think the difference is that the players of the union agree to the salary cap. A couple years ago when the CBA was allowed to expire in the NFL they did operate without a salary cap (officially) because it's not inherent without the CBA.

I really hope this gets shut down completely. The fact that most of the money that keeps DII and DIII championships alive (not to mention all non-revenue sports) comes from DI FBS really makes me nervous that this will completely collapse the lower levels of the NCAA, which I think would be very sad.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Here's the hypocrisy I don't think anyone in this thread mentioned. The main thrust of the NLRB ruling was that the NCAA is engaging in unfair labor practices because they are placing a ceiling on salaries in the form of the maximum prescribed amounts institutions can give for scholarships. I assume that, based on this ruling, professional athletes will soon be suing their respective professional leagues because those same leagues have salary caps that dictate salary ceilings for individual players?
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Well, the pro athletes already have a union representing them. If the union can't negotiate a higher salary cap, that's not the NLRB's problem. I know that was tongue-in-cheek though...
 


16FeetUnder said:
If the athletes are employees, the government could grant an exception such that their scholarship and training costs are not considered "income" or are considered a write-off. We all write off a chunk of our income due to various random things. This would take government action to accomplish, but doesn't seem that far fetched to me.

Also, what is the difference between the NFL imposing a team salary cap and the NCAA imposing maximum compensation as it currently does?
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Again, the NFL is dealing with a player's union. So there is no unfair labor practice when the union agrees to the contract.
 

Exactly: a future union of student athletes (call them employees if you must) could accept the compensation as it currently exists if they chose to. Although, most likely it wouldn't be any one union. Each university's athletes would have their own union so the situation becomes more complicated since the universities need to deal with both the union and the NCAA, or whatever future organization controls college athletics.
 

howeda7 said:
Only the NBA has a cap on how much an individual player an earn.
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If you have a cap on team salaries, you also have a cap on individual salaries. If the Patriots wanted to pay Tom Brady an annual salary of $200 MM, they couldn't do that.
 

dpodoll68 said:
If you have a cap on team salaries, you also have a cap on individual salaries. If the Patriots wanted to pay Tom Brady an annual salary of $200 MM, they couldn't do that.
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The obvious implication of the cap is that any player's individaul salary is the salary cap. Additionally, considering that there is a minimum salary in all of these leagues, a player's individual salary is also capped at the salary cap minues the league minimum times the minimum roster size.
 



bleedsmaroonandgold said:
The obvious implication of the cap is that any player's individaul salary is the salary cap. Additionally, considering that there is a minimum salary in all of these leagues, a player's individual salary is also capped at the salary cap minues the league minimum times the minimum roster size.
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Exactly.
 

dpodoll68 said:
If you have a cap on team salaries, you also have a cap on individual salaries. If the Patriots wanted to pay Tom Brady an annual salary of $200 MM, they couldn't do that.
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And actually, the NBA doesn't have a hard cap. You can pay Lebron 200 million if you want, there just is a luxury tax. That was put in for New York so they could spend double what everyone else does and still suck.
 

Rescooter said:
When you post walrus, the average IQ on this board goes down considerably.

First off, the people we're talking about are student-athletes. In that order. You chastise every coach for not graduating enough player or not holding them accountable.....blah, blah, blah.

The real facts are that most athletes will get their free education, and go in to another line of work - in the professional business world. Do you really think the unions give a rats a$$ about the students? No, they're after their money so they can get money in their coffers to pay the exorbitant salaries of the union leadership. All this talk about medical, practices, treatment, etc is just a smokescreen to push for higher wages; thus higher union dues.

It's ironic this thing is coming out of Illinois. Check to see how they're doing financially as a state. Idiots in charge pushing through idiotic legislation.

I've been in private business long enough to see the damage a lot of unions have done. Look at Detroit. Still can't make a decent automobile. But the union cronies are doing just fine until everybody else's money runs out.

I'm sure walrus, you've never worked a day in your life so you don't know what I'm talking about. Perhaps you could be a writer for the Star Tribune. They'd really appreciate your long diatribes about nothing.
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You obviously don't have a heck of a lot to brag about. You are just as much a nobody...and a nothing as those you would attempt to bash. Take a good look at yourself rescooter. Still you try to smash, bash and trash me for merely stating an opinion that may differ from the little opinion that you may be desperately holding on to? Sure, I have it coming some times...and right now you have got some coming for your rude behavior. The thing is, rescooter: you don't know me, and I sure as hell wouldn't want to know you. But, in this case: I say more power to the kids for trying to organize. And may they always remember the history of the unions as they stand in the face of the "fat-cats and in unison deliver the message: "...you can't scare me I'm sticking to the union..." The darn coaches cash their huge pay checks for winning just a few conference games on the backs legs, knees, hyper-extensions, broken bones and concussions of these student athletes who risk so that those coaches and the athletic directors and the school administrators and their agents can demand and negotiate even larger pay checks. The university receives their share of the revenue generated from broadcasting the play of these student athletes going to battle against student athletes from other schools in their conference or other schools in their ooc games. These coaches who sign multi-million dollar contracts...the athletic directors...the administrators ALL get theirs. So, now, it is time for the players to make some noise and shake the system up! Down with the status quo in Division I College Footbal!l Take your place at the table student athletes!

People such as this rescooter don't think the student athletes deserve a voice. I think that the student athletes have a LOT that NEEDS to be said. May they say it loudly. May they stand their ground. May they take their place at the bargaining table. The coaches...the athletic directors...the college administrators would earn NO revenue from televised college football games if it were not for the student athletes that play the games. Without the student athletes who have NO power...NO rights...NO recourse against the rules set up by the NCAA that totally restrict their lives as student athletes for the benefit of the coaches, the athletic directors and the administrators and more or less put them at the mercy of the "system..." That same "system" earns billions by selling the viewing rights, charging hefty prices of admissions to games and pays the fat cat coaches, athletic directors and administrators such huge salaries.

Kick their collective butts, Student Athletes! There is NOTHING like an underprivileged group of people fighting for more control input and say over their own plight and in behalf of their own physical, emotional and intellectual well-being!
 

Rescooter said:
When you post walrus, the average IQ on this board goes down considerably.

First off, the people we're talking about are student-athletes. In that order. You chastise every coach for not graduating enough player or not holding them accountable.....blah, blah, blah.

The real facts are that most athletes will get their free education, and go in to another line of work - in the professional business world. Do you really think the unions give a rats a$$ about the students? No, they're after their money so they can get money in their coffers to pay the exorbitant salaries of the union leadership. All this talk about medical, practices, treatment, etc is just a smokescreen to push for higher wages; thus higher union dues.

It's ironic this thing is coming out of Illinois. Check to see how they're doing financially as a state. Idiots in charge pushing through idiotic legislation.

I've been in private business long enough to see the damage a lot of unions have done. Look at Detroit. Still can't make a decent automobile. But the union cronies are doing just fine until everybody else's money runs out.

I'm sure walrus, you've never worked a day in your life so you don't know what I'm talking about. Perhaps you could be a writer for the Star Tribune. They'd really appreciate your long diatribes about nothing.
Click to expand...

Are you Jason Lewis? If not, we don't have enough room for another lunatic, so you know.
 



imthewalrus said:
You obviously don't have a heck of a lot to brag about. You are just as much a nobody...and a nothing as those you would attempt to bash. Take a good look at yourself rescooter. Still you try to smash, bash and trash me for merely stating an opinion that may differ from the little opinion that you may be desperately holding on to? Sure, I have it coming some times...and right now you have got some coming for your rude behavior. The thing is, rescooter: you don't know me, and I sure as hell wouldn't want to know you. But, in this case: I say more power to the kids for trying to organize. And may they always remember the history of the unions as they stand in the face of the "fat-cats and in unison deliver the message: "...you can't scare me I'm sticking to the union..." The darn coaches cash their huge pay checks for winning just a few conference games on the backs legs, knees, hyper-extensions, broken bones and concussions of these student athletes who risk so that those coaches and the athletic directors and the school administrators and their agents can demand and negotiate even larger pay checks. The university receives their share of the revenue generated from broadcasting the play of these student athletes going to battle against student athletes from other schools in their conference or other schools in their ooc games. These coaches who sign multi-million dollar contracts...the athletic directors...the administrators ALL get theirs. So, now, it is time for the players to make some noise and shake the system up! Down with the status quo in Division I College Footbal!l Take your place at the table student athletes!

People such as this rescooter don't think the student athletes deserve a voice. I think that the student athletes have a LOT that NEEDS to be said. May they say it loudly. May they stand their ground. May they take their place at the bargaining table. The coaches...the athletic directors...the college administrators would earn NO revenue from televised college football games if it were not for the student athletes that play the games. Without the student athletes who have NO power...NO rights...NO recourse against the rules set up by the NCAA that totally restrict their lives as student athletes for the benefit of the coaches, the athletic directors and the administrators and more or less put them at the mercy of the "system..." That same "system" earns billions by selling the viewing rights, charging hefty prices of admissions to games and pays the fat cat coaches, athletic directors and administrators such huge salaries.

Kick their collective butts, Student Athletes! There is NOTHING like an underprivileged group of people fighting for more control input and say over their own plight and in behalf of their own physical, emotional and intellectual well-being!
Click to expand...

Nailed it.
 

dpodoll68 said:
If you have a cap on team salaries, you also have a cap on individual salaries. If the Patriots wanted to pay Tom Brady an annual salary of $200 MM, they couldn't do that.
Click to expand...

Touche. But in practical application there is no cap on what an individual player can make in the NFL as there is in the NBA. Clearly the player's union knows that more money in total will get spent if there is a salary cap and almost every team is competative than if the Redskins and Cowboys can spend $1 billion and buy the Super Bowl. So they agreed to it. No victim there.
 

You are allowed to price fix if it is collectively bargained. You cannot if you do not.

This shouldn't be hard to figure out or distinguish unless you refuse to understand.
 

16FeetUnder said:
If the athletes are employees, the government could grant an exception such that their scholarship and training costs are not considered "income" or are considered a write-off. We all write off a chunk of our income due to various random things. This would take government action to accomplish, but doesn't seem that far fetched to me.

Also, what is the difference between the NFL imposing a team salary cap and the NCAA imposing maximum compensation as it currently does?
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My argument would be that if they want to be treated as employees, then they should get the full "experience". If they want the advantages of being an employee, then they should also have to deal with the negatives.
 

Lakeville Goldy said:
I really hope this gets shut down completely. The fact that most of the money that keeps DII and DIII championships alive (not to mention all non-revenue sports) comes from DI FBS really makes me nervous that this will completely collapse the lower levels of the NCAA, which I think would be very sad.
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March Madness pays for all the non-revenue championships in all divisions. Football money goes directly to the conferences and schools, not the NCAA. The NAIA survives without the march madness money, as do club teams, etc. Not the end of the world.
 


Killjoy said:
Like wren, you think the more times you post the same arguments the more convincing you are. :rolleyes:
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Nah. People already have their minds made up. My side just happens to be right as the legal battles are going our way. The NCAA doesn't have a leg to stand on no matter how much people wish it did.
 

Is the NCAA corrupt? Yes, but so are unions. Fighting corruption with corruption is not the answer. Like others have said, it might begin with increased medical coverage and monies for graduate schooling, etc, but it will evolve into a fight for more and more funds to the players union, just like in every other sport.

The unions know their numbers are decreasing, so they found a mouth piece in Colter (who happened to go to school in one of the most union friendly areas in the country where they knew the case would win the first challenge being ruled by the Chicago region) in the hopes that they could their hands on union fees from tens of thousands of athletes who are in the NCAA.

If you truly enjoy college football, you'll hope that the unionization fails as it will be the end of CFB as we know/love it.
 

pregameatblarneys said:
Is the NCAA corrupt? Yes, but so are unions. Fighting corruption with corruption is not the answer. Like others have said, it might begin with increased medical coverage and monies for graduate schooling, etc, but it will evolve into a fight for more and more funds to the players union, just like in every other sport.

The unions know their numbers are decreasing, so they found a mouth piece in Colter (who happened to go to school in one of the most union friendly areas in the country where they knew the case would win the first challenge being ruled by the Chicago region) in the hopes that they could their hands on union fees from tens of thousands of athletes who are in the NCAA.

If you truly enjoy college football, you'll hope that the unionization fails as it will be the end of CFB as we know/love it.
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If something like this had been done a few years ago, this effort may never have begun and it certainly wouldn't have as much steam.

I'm no commie, but one of Lenin's most pertinent statements was "You can't make an omelet if you don't break any eggs." I'm not saying the NCAA is corrupt from top-to-bottom or that it's even corrupt. It is frickin' greedy though and if there is going to be any reform, they have to be hit where it hurts.
 

badgergopher said:
What did the ruling say about walkons?
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If it plays out like other unions, the walk-ons will be treated like scabs who cross the picket lines. How dare someone attempt to do the same job without being fairly compensated like a true-blood union worker!

I'm only being slightly sarcastic in that statement. If this holds up, there are so many issues of creating the players union among college athletics that will create an even bigger mess. While I do sympathize with the athletes and feel they do deserve a seat at the table, I don't see how this can play out and not radically alter the college sports scene.

Part of the problem is that members of the NCAA field athletic teams in multiple sports. Are all sports going to be represented equally? Or, is it only the big money-maker sports that will be subject to union representation? How do non-revenue sports fit the equation? They are "getting paid by university" so why wouldn't they get their fair share?
How will Title IX fit within the good ol' boys network of union bosses?
What happens to the smaller schools (i.e. FCS) who can already barely afford to field a team to compete with the "Big Boys"?
What happens to the athlete who doesn't want to join the union? Will he be allowed to join the team? If not, can he sue for discrimination, being denied his opportunity to better his life through athletic pursuit?
 

pregameatblarneys said:
Is the NCAA corrupt? Yes, but so are unions. Fighting corruption with corruption is not the answer. Like others have said, it might begin with increased medical coverage and monies for graduate schooling, etc, but it will evolve into a fight for more and more funds to the players union, just like in every other sport.

The unions know their numbers are decreasing, so they found a mouth piece in Colter (who happened to go to school in one of the most union friendly areas in the country where they knew the case would win the first challenge being ruled by the Chicago region) in the hopes that they could their hands on union fees from tens of thousands of athletes who are in the NCAA.

If you truly enjoy college football, you'll hope that the unionization fails as it will be the end of CFB as we know/love it.
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Most big institutions are corrupt. Not all unions are corrupt, neither are all businesses.

Corruption comes from money and power, which buy influence. To limit or mitigate corruption you need oversight and a check on power. No one oversees the NCAA and no one challenges their power structure. I don't know how you can credibly argue a start up union would be instantaneously corrupt. If anything, a union would be an effective check on the NCAA. The only challenge is to make sure the union doesn't become what the NCAA is.

Unions aren't a problem. Big business isn't a problem. Politicians aren't a problem. The problem is corruption of people through money and power: greed.

If we're going to generalize, we need to know where to place the blame properly.
 

pregameatblarneys said:
Is the NCAA corrupt? Yes, but so are unions. Fighting corruption with corruption is not the answer. Like others have said, it might begin with increased medical coverage and monies for graduate schooling, etc, but it will evolve into a fight for more and more funds to the players union, just like in every other sport.

The unions know their numbers are decreasing, so they found a mouth piece in Colter (who happened to go to school in one of the most union friendly areas in the country where they knew the case would win the first challenge being ruled by the Chicago region) in the hopes that they could their hands on union fees from tens of thousands of athletes who are in the NCAA.

If you truly enjoy college football, you'll hope that the unionization fails as it will be the end of CFB as we know/love it.
Click to expand...

You bet they found a mouth piece in Colter. Don't for a minute think that this guy is acting on his own. He is puppet, whether he knows it or not. The union organizers are drumming him full of ideas about how he is being exploited. Unfortunately, the NCAA and it's attendant football big money arms race makes for good ammunition for the union guys.
 

What happened to my buddy, ATSgopher? I wonder what he read this week?
 

Gopherguy0723 said:
Nah. People already have their minds made up. My side just happens to be right as the legal battles are going our way. The NCAA doesn't have a leg to stand on no matter how much people wish it did.
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Again, be comforted in your thought, but don't think the NCAA won't go down without a fight. The nuclear option would be to stop providing athletic scholarships and then college football players go right back to being students and not employees.
 

Sparlimb said:
Again, be comforted in your thought, but don't think the NCAA won't go down without a fight. The nuclear option would be to stop providing athletic scholarships and then college football players go right back to being students and not employees.
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Thanks. I needed it pointed out that powerful institutions go down swinging in order to maintain their position.
 

A question for those who debate the unionization of college football!

Has college football, college basketball and college hockey evolved into such a totally DIFFERENT concept than the non-revenue sports that colleges sponsor that they need to be classified differently OR eliminated because they are a threat to the University of Minnesota's future ability to be an educational institution that can benefit the state of Minnesota?

Perhaps the NCAA is not capable of running the corporate type sports such as football, basketball and even hockey? The Hockey Season at the university level spans the football season and the basketball seasons. They start playing games in the fall and finish in the spring. It obviously is not conducive to student-athletes being students during the close to six months of that season.

NCAA March Madness has put college basketball right up there with the largest of the professional sports re: television revenues generated. And certainly the gambling industry thrives during "March Madness..." With the football playoff system starting, certainly television revenues will continue to increase. And, the sports gambling industry will THRIVE because of this expansion of the season and all the hype that will come with it. Does the University of Minnesota have the resources to keep up with the "facility arms race?"

College Football is a nightmare just waiting to happen as "concussive injury" is more fully understood and raises some very uncertain times for the individual colleges and university communities that sponsor football teams. How much has the NFL set aside in a fund to compensate disabled and severely damaged concussive injury suffers right now and into the future? Will colleges and great universities eventually be driven into bankruptcy when class-action suites are filed by current and former players who come after their former programs and schools? Will coaches and training staffs be held liable?

Is it time for the B1G to drop football, basketball and hockey? Do those revenue producing sports even belong on the campus setting in the year 2014 and beyond?

There may even come a time when these three sports no longer fit for the high schools.

Can the University of Minnesota afford the risk involved with sponsoring football, basketball and hockey? Should a fund be started by the University to cover liability issues for concussive injury to players from these "contact" sports? Can the U of M compete in the war of outrageous salary increases for coaches AND can they compete in the outrageous "facility arms race?"
 


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